Extreme XB-600

James, where'd you buy your XB-600 from?

:? Hello and Thanks I hope this doesn't count against my 3 posts! New here but have been a lurker while investigating E-bikes. Got lots of good info. Glad to joining the community

James

I bought it off the web from Extreme. Had I known you were 3.5 hours away I'd have been up to see you. We should talk some time. I am thinking about a dealership here. Don't know how many 600s you have sold but I can tell you that they are as advertised .

Sounds like the same light I have on my mountain bike. I got it at Wmart and it works great four modes and the rear light I think has like five modes of lighting. Thanks for the welcome and 73s
james

`JamesS,
Welcome to our V is for Voltage Community, please keep us updated. Your post will be the first post added to the new X-Treme XB-600 Collaborative Hand Books and a new format we're working on.

Stleride
Moderator Team Captain

Moderators are dedicated volunteer V Team members who help keep your V Forums running smoothly and provide Forum Support.

`JamesS,
Don't feel bad, despite what a few a saying, that's typical for X Treme. Advise you check all the bolts and welds also, I've seem several where they just fell apart while being ridden.

G III
"Justifiably Proud"

The welds seem fine. and I have seem more than most, as I have removed most of the body panels to photo for replacement. The frame seems fine for 20mph but I wouldn't ever want to go 50mph with it! It is as advertised an electric bike. It is not a motor scooter. You get what you pay for! Heck I wish it was a Gold Wing! LOL

` :?

I don't think I said the XB-600 had weld problems, I was referring to other models. There is a repair shop close to my House, and we often stop by to just browse. There were a least 12 different X Tremes there once that had various broken welds, and the owner was parting them out for parts, since they weren't worth repairing.
The weld warning came from him not me. He also sells some new and used E Scooters as well as Gas Scooters.

G III
"Justifiably Proud"

` :?
My bad for doing a off topic post, but JamesS was appreciative and thanked me for the information, and that's the only thing that matters to me.
The next time I'm on duty, I'll drop by the shop and pass your information along to Paul, even with over 10 years experience of working on all type of Scooters, I'm sure he will appreciate your input.

G III
"Justifiably Proud"

Well...I HAVE an XB-600 and already commented someplace on here??? about it. I think it's awesome and well worth the money. Find my other post and you'll see the pic of mine. I looked at the welds as best I could see them without removing anything and they look fine to me. This scoot feels very solid and I personally think the shocks make for a smooth ride. I have a bike computer mounted on mine now so I get odometer...more accurate mph, etc....and it's right on with what the previous poster stated about speed. Fast enough for my needs. What I keep wondering is when you apply the front brake (asked this somewhere else on here-no good answer) it is doing something as well to the motor...slowing dramatically the rear wheel turning...which makes for a very good brake. I rate those brakes excellent. I know someone said it might be "regenerative" braking but I don't think it's converting power back...just creating some kind of resistance electrically in the hub motor. Whatever...I like how effective it is at stopping!

I do intend to remove the gauge cover and stop those plug connections from tapping against the inside and making noise. There are two connections in there for the gauges and if you disconnect both the top with gauges is free from the scooter. When plugged there's enough slack in the wiring to allow those plug connections to flop around in there. So I'm going to velcro them to the side or something. I do wonder as well about the seat. Mine is "loose" when it's closed and only sits tight on the scooter with your weight on it. It's really no problem but I just wonder if it is designed to be that way. There's no way I can see to adjust the latching mechanism to pull the seat down tighter against the stop when it is closed....anyone else's that way? I might also mention that if you're looking for the two fuses...I know the spade type one is underneath the rear...up and forward of the wheel along the frame. They have it just sort of hanging under there and I intend to wire tie it to something so it won't just be hanging. And I think I recall the round fuse is back there as well.

Again these are my observations so far. I'm not speculating here. I've been riding this scoot for about a month now...and so far so good!

Gushar

`

The St. Louis Fire Department is recognized as a progressive leader in providing the highest quality of emergency services. They are committed to the preservation of life, property, and the environment by effectively and efficiently meeting the emerging public safety and welfare needs of our diverse community. We accomplish our goals by maintaining the highest standards of professional service through continued training, education, and living up to our motto of being "Justifiably Proud."

Gushar,
Do you think the XB-600 would be a good candidate for some mods? My house is seriously thinking about going in together to get one.

G III
"Justifiably Proud"

Hey Gusher,

I agree that when you apply the front brake the hub motor is braking as well. I don't think it is regenerative. I think it is "a soft brake" reversing polarity and applies voltage to the motor to help brake. I use it a lot here with all the hills and would think perhaps my headlight would brighten if it were regen, perhaps I'm wrong. but I do agree that it aids braking very well.

I would like to add a cycle computer to mine as well for an odometer, have one on my mountain bike but not sure which one to try on the scooter. Tell me what brand, model you have working for you if you don't mind.

My seat is about the same and I really haven't given it much thought.

While you have the instrument cover off also look at the power module mounted there with tie downs. mine was making noise and I secured it better with some electrical tape. also put a wrap of tape on the blinker reminder, to loud for me, now I can hear it fine and it is much quieter.

Ride safe!
JamesS

` :?

Your not referring to the controller are you?
It has to be able to dissipate heat, so I don't think it's a good idea to wrap it with tape.

Peace Out,
Gman

What is your vision for the future our growing community?

It does seem to be for the headlights and yes it is a heat sink box. I only put one width of tape on it at the very end to keep it from bouncing around. I should have made that more clear in my post. The motor controller seems to be mounted under the scooter just in front of the center kick stand. Somewhat exposed to the elements if you were to ask me. Any one ridding in the rain?

Ride safe,
JamesS

`
It's there so the air can keep it cool, it's sealed pretty good, but don't advise going through standing water regularly. The braking is the biggest problem in the rain. It also rains in China, and they don't just stop going to work and stuff just because it rains.
BTW Jim can get us one for less than $200, we just need to add the cost of some mods.

G III
"Justifiably Proud"

I just got my xb 600 today. It was delivered to my workplace because I live in a rural area(nowhere to turn a semi around :D). It has the usual damage to the plastic parts :(... No surprise there. Anyway, I put it together at work and charged it up, so I could ride it home when I got off. WOW!! These things suck going uphill. On the flats it's fun and easy to maintain 20mph, but hills drop the speed to about 10mph :(. Needless to say, there were some unhappy motorists behind me. I gotta do something to make this thing faster. If anyone has suggestions post here please. I found 60v and 72v controllers cheap on ebay. will the brushless motor handle one or two more batteries? I like the scooter overall though, worth $739 anyday.

As most know from my previous posts I own an xb600 and am very pleased with it so far. Yes, it is slow on hills...but then it really isn't designed for hill climbing. Though I live in Florida, there are some small, steep hills near my neighborhood. My xb600, while climbing them slowly, still climbs them dependably. When I hear someone complain about the "hill climbing" ability of the xb600 I often think about "well, how does that compare to peddling a bicycle up that hill?!!" And when I speak of hill climbing I'm not talking of "human assist" while riding the xb600. I've never even tried...haven't even had the peddles on except for a moment to see how they went on. I think the whole idea, as even the websites selling them seem to explain is that the "peddles" are really just to make the scoots legal in all 50 states wherever regular bikes are legal...without registration. And that is, in my opinion, a very smart marketing/design plan!

Ireally enjoy riding my xb600 and it's turning out to be a very practical, environmental/energy wise, form of "neighborhood" transportation. I simply like the fact that while all of my co-workers are complaining about the price of gasoline I remind them that I ride an electric bike/scooter to work daily (my workplace is 2 miles from my home). I actually make the trip 4 times a day. I go home for lunch each day. Certainly this may not be their "ideal" mode of transportation...but it has helped me "introduce" alot of folks to evs. I encourage anyone who asks me about it...to take it for a test ride. And so far all I get are smiles and amazement. Most folks are thrilled at the mobility and the "lack of noise!"

I've noticed a few teens around my area that ride gasoline scooters...like probably 50cc, etc. And while they can go faster I notice that these same scoots struggle on steep hills as well. So, no great gain there over electric unless you get into something much more powerful...and then there's electrics to match those gas burners as well if you want to spend the bucks.

Last but not least...what more can you ask for at a price of only $799?!!! I mean there's a whole lot of regular bicycles that cost that much and alot more! Even dealing with the shipping woes...it's well worth it. And while I didn't have any damage when mine was delivered (amazed I didn't the way they pack them) I did contact xtreme because my speedo wouldn't go all the way down to zero mph...and they responded immediately shipping me a new gauge cluster (which by the way I've never installed since for all intent and purposes the existing one works well enough!).

I've now had my xb600 for almost a year, clocked over 1100 miles (according to the bike computer I installed), and not had any problem other than a flat (tube) from running over a staple in the road. Good luck with your xb600!

Gushar

Thanks for your input Gushar. I wasn't knocking the xb 600 or x-treme at all, I'm very happy with the scooter. It was well worth $750. I rode it forever yesterday with my daughter on the back and we never got to 1/2 charge!! We just had to pull over alot and let cars go around. it would be cool if went faster to match it's flashy looks though. I'm going to order a 72v controller and add two batteries to it and see if the brushless hub motor can survive. If not, I'll have to order a motor for the xm 2000 and put it on there and just run a 60v system. I just need the xb 600 to go 35- 45 mph so I can keep up on the roads. Until I "juice it" I will continue to enjoy it at 20 Mph and wave cars around. LOL

Oh yeah, I also agree with you on the introducing people to EV's. Since I had mine delivered to my workplace, I think everyone in the place rode it for a bit, everyone that rode it loved it and a few of them want one too, now. :) If anyone is thinking of getting an xb 600, I would say definitely get one, but if you are wanting something to use as a commuter, etc... the xm 2000 or xm 3000 would be a better choice in traffic.

Hi again,
Back to the mods. I was researching brushless motors and it appears the hub motors from china are made to accept 24v - 72v. We may be able to change the controller and add batteries for more speed without changing the hub motor! YAY! I searched 72v controllers on ebay and found some for 30- 40 bucks. Check out this site for chinese hub motors. Some look really familiar :) Yongkang Success Permanent Magnetic Motor Manufactory

zerogas,
about moding, I would first feel the motor to see how hot it is getting after a ride. If it is just getting warm than it may tolerate more amps. If it's getting hot to the touch then it is probably working as hard as it can without frying. Also, it would be helpful to know what voltage the controller is sending to the motor on the steep hills. If this is the same as battery voltage, then the controller is not limiting the current, i.e., if the motor voltage does not drop very much when going up a hill. If the controller is limiting the current, than you can get better performance on hills without upping the voltage. All you would need to do is use a higher amp controller. But that may not increase the top speed, it depends. Some of these cheap chinese controllers are really underrated for the motor they are paired with, and will heat up and cut back to protect themselves from frying.

The motor according to Xtreme's website is a brushless hub motor. The controllers for these are a bit more expensive than brush controllers which may have been what you found on ebay.

A speed increase might be just the thing you need, but beware of range limitations. Higher speed, especially up the hills will draw the batteries down much faster, and cut the range significantly. A rule of thumb is if you double the average riding speed, than you half the range. That's why if you want to go a lot faster, than you may need larger batteries and more of them to maintain a suitable range.

The motor would likely tolerate more voltage just fine. The issue though, is if you can't raise the gearing somehow, than it will draw more amps and heat up much more on a higher voltage. Increasing the motor current is really the only way to get better performance by raising the voltage without raising the gearing. This is kind of a disadvantage of hub motors. If you had a chain drive, than you could raise the voltage a lot and the gearing at the same time to increase the top speed, improve hill climbing, increase power output, and this would not require any more current flow which would mean no additional heating. Maybe you could fit a smaller tire on while raising the voltage?

I will check the heat from the motor next time I ride. I ordered a 72v controller already for $68 shipped off ebay, so I'll add 2 more batteries and see what happens. If the motor fries I'll order the 2000 watt motor from extreme and go again. It'll still be cheaper than the xm 2000 and have cool looks too.

This is all interesting...since I'm an xb600 owner. But what if the controller is limiting amps...as Andrew??or whoever suggested...and the motor can take more? Then, just changing to another suitable controller would give us more speed on hills...as he suggested...right? I mean I know the xb600 has a range of about 30 miles. I did this one time...rode it till I could barely get in the driveway...and I was at 29.2 miles on an accurate bike computer I have installed on mine. I don't really need that range. Most of my rides are 2-3 miles tops. Also, I've felt the motor before to see if it gets hot...on hills as I recall too...and I don't ever recall the motor being anything other than warm. Never hot enough that you couldn't hold your hand on it continuously. Maybe we have a motor that can take more juice...and give us more hill climbing speed if we just switched controllers. So what if we lose even half of the range. 15 miles is still alot of riding for me! Course I'm fine with it the way it is...although it would be nice to go alittle faster up hills. I think you have to weigh in as well "how fast the scooter is really designed for." I mean it rides "solid" at 20-25. But I've been as fast as about 33mph going down a hill...and I don't think it is designed for anything much faster than that. It would be fun to have just an increase to 25mph on the flats. That would be great to me...and certainly fast enough! But again, I'm not complaining...I really do like it just the way it is.

Be sure and let us know if you do mod it and what the results are! And where did you get it for $750? Was that to the terminal? I may want another one in the future and I'd like to know where you got that price.

Gushar

I bought mine off ebay from an authorized dealer (x-treme drop ships). It was actually $739 + shipping. I agree with you on the motor handling more. All the hub motors on the chinese web site I looked at were for 24v- 72v applications. I think they are also limited by the controller somehow. I read somewhere there is a wire you can cut to undo the speed governor(not sure on this). I also don't need 30 mile range. It's 5-6 miles from my house to work, but 12 mph up a hill is unbearable(to me and the cars behind me). If I can get this bike going 30- 35mph and 20- 25 mph up hills with the 72v controller I ordered and 2 more batteries, we'll have some good looking, streetworthy scooters. Even if you ordered the throttle, controller, and motor for the xm 2000 from x-treme and put on the xb 600, it would still cost way less than the xm 2000, and look better too. If this experiment fails, that will be my next try.

I would like you to consider some things about trying to go faster especially up hills. The specs on your old controller according to X-treme's website is 48V and 48A (2304W) while the new eb@y controller is 72V and 28A (2016W.) If both specs are right, the new controller will be less powerful than the old one and likely accelerate slower but possibly reach a higher speed. I say possibly because to go faster you must overcome wind resistance which goes up by the square of the velocity if the coefficient of drag is constant. To make things worse for the new controller will be the extra weight (~30lbs with two 12V 17-20AH batteries added) which will have to be accelerated too. This should hurt your hill climbing ability although you may be able to build up more speed before hitting the hill initially. To further complicate matters, you need to make sure that your DC-DC converter will handle the extra voltage okay. Most are rated from 30V-60V. This is usually found on a sticker on the bottom of the unit. If you get the new controller, you probably should plan to modify the internal shunt to deliver more than 28A to the motor. During the modification, you should go slow and monitor the motor temperatures after hill climbing and long rides so you don't do damage and need to buy a new brushless hub motor.

The specs on X-treme's website are most likely wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if the controller was actually limiting to <20 amps max. 2304 watts is about 9 times as much power as someone in reasonable physical condition can put out for a short period to climb hills on a bicycle. That's close to the max power output of a 50 cc scooter.

But, what you are saying is correct. Actually, if the new controller max current was lower, than hill climbing would most likely be worse. Because what the controller does is limit the voltage to control the current. So on a steep hill if the original current limit was being met than the controller was actually limiting the voltage down to a certain level to drop the current flow. If the new controller current limit is even lower, than the new controller will even drop the voltage below what it was before to keep the current at the limit. The higher voltage on the battery circuit side of the controller would only help reduce current flow from the batteries, and increase range.

The way to deal with this is to make sure that the DC-DC converter only taps off the original 4 batteries. Then, charge the extra added batteries separately from the originals. This should keep things in balance. For example, if you added 2 batteries, then get a 24v charger for the extra two.

Alright, so how do I modify the shunt? I'm not all that familiar with electrical controllers. I just wanna get to 30-35 and 25 up hills, so any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is a thread explaining how to modify the shunt in the controller using the old Emax scooter's brushless controller.

More E-max Controller Mods - Shunt Resistor Trick

Also, trying to swapping the motor on the XB-600 to the XM-2000 will not be easy. The motor is wider, has a disk brake instead of a drum brake, and will need the controller and shifting mechanisms from the XM-2000 to work. It is possible but will not be easy.

Thanks jbird,
I think all mods need to start with this controller shunt mod. Very handy info and an easy mod too. I'm tempted to do this today, but I might wait and mod the 72v controller so I have the original as backup. I'll probably go ahead and put 100a FETs and capacitors in too to be on the safe side. If I can get results similar to the pantera from this mod, I'll be happy. It seems he picked up about 10 mph from the shunt mod and 1 more battery going 60v. Imagine 72v though. :D WICKED!

Ok, I couldn't wait. I ran out to radio shack and bought a 30 watt soldering iron and jerked the 48v controller out of my xb 600. I cut a piece of coat hanger 1 1/2 inches long, drilled 2 holes in my controller board, soldered it, and was rewarded greatly. This controller shunt mod is brilliant. Kudos to whoever discovered this. I can now go 20 mph up hills!! That's an 8- 10 mph increase from what it was before!!! I also do about 22 mph on the flats now. All it took was a piece of coat hanger, are you kidding me. This is the best free mod for the xb 600 for sure! If someone could show me which FET traces to solder, I would put the 5th battery on right now and shoot for 30 mph :D. This is great. Oh, acceleration is much quicker too. I can get to 22mph in seconds. I think with one more battery, I can eclipse the performance the 50cc gas scooters have to offer. AWESOME!!

zerogas, that's a huge boost in performance. Is the controller getting hot, or burning? Can you take some pictures? I'm not too surprised that the controller was the bottleneck, but that's a lot more than I thought.

Just go easy on the motor at first and feel the motor at 2 minute intervals on a long ride. The motor may gradually get very hot, so don't expect it to be fine if it is cool after a few minutes of riding. It is difficult to know at which point the motor is reaching its critical temperature from the outer casing temperature, but at least you can compare to how it felt before. Once it gets very hot to the touch, than it may be approaching or at its designed safe operating temperature.

If there's some way you can get a temperature reading of the windings themselves than that would give a much better indication. The winding insulation will break down when the temperature gets too high and the motor will fry, so that is the critical point.

Andrew,
I rode the scooter for hours after doing this mod (taking turns riding my daughter and her friend) and the motor never got anything more than warm. That's not to say the controller won't fry later, but I don't care if it does. It's a crappy controller anyhow. If it does fry I'll get one of the crystalyte 72v 40a models and keep on scooting. Like I said though, we rode for hours at full throttle and didn't have any hint of a problem. Works like a charm.

Hey, that sounds like a great improvement. I'll be interested though to know the longterm effects. Now, I've read the "shunt" mod before...with the other scooters. But to keep me from running all over here to find and read those again. Can someone just basically explain exactly what that is doing to give more power. I'm not one of the more electically savy people on here so I need to know what a "shunt" is to begin with and what it does.

Thanks,
Gus

A shunt is a calibrated resistor. The voltage drop measured across a shunt can be used to determine the current flowing. The controller may measure current from an internal shunt to base its set limit on.

The voltage drop (V) in relation to current flow (I) and resistance (R) is given by: V=IR

So, we want to alter the controller current limit. How do we do it? Because it may not be so easy to adjust the controller logic, then we can alter the controller measurement of current flow or fool the controller. This can be done by recalibrating the shunt. The above equation tells how to do that. If we want to make the controller measure half of the real current, then we must half the voltage drop. If the resistance is halved, than the voltage drop will be half.

In simpler terms, decreasing the resistance of the shunt will make the controller think there is less current flowing, and increase the real current limit. The resistance can easily be lowered by adding wire to the shunt, using thicker wire, a shorter piece of wire, or even adding any conductive metal available (like zerogas did with a piece of a coat hanger).

If it has been determined that a current limit is not really needed to protect the motor or controller and not desirable, than just lower the resistance of the shunt by a lot using any means available. A precise adjustment would not be needed in this case.

However, if a precise adjustment is needed, then first measure the resistance of the shunt. Send a current flow measured by a digital multi meter or measured somehow accurately through the shunt, and measure the voltage across the shunt. Then cut pieces of wire to the length of the shunt and measure their resistance by using the same method. Use the equation for resistors in parallel to determine how much the added wire will change the resistance of the shunt. The equation is given here: Wikipedia - Resistor. Another method is to add wire to the shunt, then grind it down until the resistance of the shunt is at the desired level.

The change in current limit will be the reciprocal of the change in resistance. So if the resistance is 1/2 of what it was originally, then the current limit will be 2/1 or double. If the resistance is 1/3, then the current limit will be 3 times, ect.

Thanks Andrew for that very clear explanation. So as in the pic back on the EMax forum seems to show...Zerogas just soldered in the coat hanger wire from contact point to contact point where each "end" of the present "shunt" is soldered to the board...to create the same path with even less resistance by adding the coat hanger wire?

Gushar

Gushar,
That is exactly what I did. I cut a 1 and 1/2 inch piece of coathanger. drilled a hole 2mm in diameter in each contact point beside the existing shunts. and soldered it in. It's not exact, but I'm not worried about this controller. If it booms there are better ones available to purchase (crystalyte). I'm just trying to see what I can do on the cheap to make this scooter faster. Today I'll be adding a 5th battery to try and increase top speed. This will give me 60v. The FETs in the controller are only rated for 63v, so I don't want to try 72v just yet. They would fry for sure. If I'm careful with the throttle at 60v I think it should be ok. If not I'll have to order the crystalyte controller :D

Ok,
I'm stuck. i wired a 5th battery in the red wire coming from the battery pack, just before the fuse and when I turned on the scooter the voltage gauge showed in the red and the scooter would not run. I then tried wiring the battery between the fuse and controller, same thing. Does anyone know how to add another battery to the xb 600? I'd rather not have wires hanging out of the battery pack, but wiring under the seat to the hot wire isn't working. Should the 5th battery go to the controller's output wire? HELP!!!

I couldn't wait, I wired the 5th battery in series with the pack and it worked!! I now have a 28mph scooter!! HAHAHAHAHA!! 28mph on flats and 25mph on hills. Now my xb 600 owns at 60 volts. :D I'll now have to ride for an hour or so and monitor the motor and controller. So far with 30 minutes of test riding the motor is still only warm. Perhaps later in the summer I'll rewire the scooter and get a good controller do a 72v version, but for now, I'm happy with just shy of 30 mph performance from a $740 scooter, a piece of coat hanger, and a $30 12v/12ah battery :) Oh, yeah. To do this I took the top of the battery pack and cut the black wire coming from the negative of the last battery. I then extended both these wires up through the seat pan through (2) 1/4" holes. Then I put a snap connect on each wire( 1 male and one female so I can disconnect the 5th battery and plug them together when charging). Then I put the corresponding snap connects on 2 more wires and ran them to the 5th battery which sits under the seat perfectly. I have a 2 amp trickle charger to charge the 5th battery and I unplug the snap connects and plug the extending wires from the pack into each other to charge the pack with the 48v charger that came with the scooter. I hope this answers some questions about the abilities of these chinese brushless hub motors and controllers. It seems if there is any weak link in these scooters it will be the controller, because the motor still doesn't get hot. I can hold my hand on it with no problem. Now, go "juice" your scooters!!!!!!!!!!!

The following is a precaution that you probably should take to protect the XB-600 from damage. First, you should either let the batteries rest for a while or turn on the scooter at 48V and cut the headlights on high for several seconds then power down before installing the fifth battery. This will dissipate or remove some surface charge thereby reducing total system voltage (drops to usually between 65 and 66V afterwards.) This will help you avoid trouble like going above the high voltage cut-off of the controller (if it exists it may cause you some delay waiting for voltage to drop off some), overstressing the DC-DC converter (max rating probably 60V), or risk blowing capacitors in the controller (usually rated up to 63V.) Once you ride a little ways the voltage will drop and you will be in the "safe" range. I used a Vector/Black&Decker 12V 2/4/6A charger for the spare battery. There is 12V 2/1A version of the charger that is too slow with questionable reliability that I would not recommend using.

Well, all is well so far. I'm recharging now. I must say, the extra speed does zap the batteries faster. LOL. I still will have plenty of range for my 6 mile trek to work, so all is good here in 28 mph xb 600 land :) I'll link some videos on youtube when I get charged up and it stops raining.

Congratulations on the mod. Could you also post some pics on here? Or even better could you start a thread for these mods and post the pics and repost the descriptions of what you did there? I know that may seem like asking alot but usually the folks who do these type mods and report them here are kind enough to do that for those of us who might want to do the same...cause you know that's alot of what this forum is all about...helping each other out when one person succeeds in making such a modification work.

Gushar

Gushar,
As soon as I get some more batteries for my camera and it stops raining here I will get some pics up. This was very easy to do. For the controller shunt mod you can see pics at the link above. It works the same way even though the shunts on the xb 600 controller are in the middle of the pcb. It takes about 30 minutes to do it. Soon I'll post pics of the battery wire routing etc.. for adding the 5th battery. Again, this is about another 30 minutes of work, so in 1-2 hours tops you can easily add 8- 10 mph to your xb 600. I would definitely recommend the shunt mod for better hill climbing ability even if you don't want to do the 60v mod like I did. Also, I want to test it a few more days so I can post some stats on range, speed with a full charge (my batteries were low when I did the 60v mod and still got to 28 mph :D). The main reason I want to wait to post pics and instructions is so I can make sure the scooter can take it before other people do it and burn up their scooters.

Thanks Zerogas. Yeah, I understand. I'm really interested to see what happens on the longterm as well. Like I've said recently on here, I'm basically satisfied with the xb600 as it is. However, I wouldn't mind having some better hill climbing. Also, a bit more speed on the flats would be nice too. Of course what you've reported is really a vast difference in performance. I can't imagine being able to go 25mph uphill or 28-29mph on the flats! That's about a 10mph difference for both and that's a huge difference when you're at those speeds. I've looked at the "shunt" mod several times on the other post. I guess I'm just trying to imagine exactly where the new shunt gets soldered and why you have to drill holes in the board. Is that to run the ends up through to solder on the other side?? Are those points at the same place, or directly beside where the existing shunt is soldered? Anyway, I appreciate your willing to take the risk here with this and that you've shared this info thus far with other xb600 owners. I wish we knew the exact maximum safe voltage range for the motor, controller and dc-dc converter, as well as max amps. Wonder if xtreme knows this??? and would share it? I'm beginning to wonder if in fact the speed, etc. was limited not because the components couldn't deliver it without failing/burning out...but rather to meet the federal e-bike definition in the US???

Thanks again and I'll look forward to seeing just how you did things.

Gushar

Sorry Gus,
I should have been more clear on the shunt mod. You have to drill (2) 2mm holes so you can solder the tips of the coat hanger on the other side. There isn't alot of room on the pcb to do it, so I drilled my holes directly beside the existing shunts ends. This mod alone will give you 20 mph up hills. It's easier to do than you might think, and it works like a charm. I would do this mod no matter what. When my 72v controller comes in I plan to do the shunt mod on it also. Look out! My xb 600 is gonna hit the 40's !!! I'm looking into a 2000 watt motor for a 72v mod, so stay tuned. Gas can kiss my ass! LOL

Thanks Zerogas for the clarification. I'm thinking as well it was critical on the other shunt mod post about the size (diameter) of the coat hanger wire...realizing this or that coat hanger may be different in diameter??? Have to read that other post again.

What did you think about the one post talking about the max voltage of the dc-dc converter...and bleeding off some voltage with the headlight? Seems if that's a problem it would be better to try and find a converter that will take higher voltages.

Can't wait to see a video of your xb600 tooling along at warp speed! :-)

Gushar

Oh, thought of something else I was curious about. I haven't even opened up the battery box on mine so I don't even know what size wires they use in the battery string and into and out of it??? I know on my previous small cheapy scoots 24v, 36v, it was pretty small wire. And how do they have the battery connections made? Again on those small scoots I had there were spade connectors. And btw, when you wrote "snap connectors" do you mean those that just "clip and cut into" the wire and you can add another wire or join two wires with them? Cause that's what I know as "snap connectors." But they're not made to continuously be opened and closed????

And I'm thinking as well why not just get a suitable replacement charger for a 60 volt bat pack rather than charging separately. Sorry for all the questions...just got me curious about those connectors, etc.

Gushar,

Take it from someone who has done the 60V upgrade from 48V for a long time on a similar scooter and experienced a burned out DC-DC converter as well as blown capacitors in the controller. Bleeding off some of the extra voltage before connecting the fifth battery takes only a few seconds and will likely save you money on replacement parts/gas to return to an ICE and time disassembling and reassembling the scooter. Also finding a DC-DC converter that will handle the extra voltage is not easy. Most solutions are pretty expensive (~$200) or will need to be custom made yourself (will need to output 10 amps.) If you are planning on trying to use a 60V charger instead of a 48V and a 12V charger, you will expose the electrical components of the scooter with up to 75V which is a bad idea as this is over the max voltage for the capacitors and DC-DC converter as well as equal to the max voltage that the FETs will handle (usually 75V for a 48V scooter's controller.) You should consider getting a spare DC-DC converter and/or controller just in case. Alternatively, you could just upgrade the capacitors and FETs in the controller first for a long-term solution.

It would also be advisable to find out where the DC-DC converter taps off the pack. Then, run those wires to the original 48v section of the pack (I know this is not possible with the way zerogas did the wiring). If doing this, you must charge the extra battery separately so it remains in balance. This will save the DC-DC converter, and this is the way EVT owners did 60v mods with the EVT scooters.

Hi again,
Gus, by snap connectors I'm referring to the spade type that have a male and a female which can be plugged into each other. I used these on the wires from the 5th battery and from the battery pack for quick disconnects and to plug the 48v pack back together for charging. I charge the 5th battery separately with a $28 shumacker charger from Wal-Mart. My previous post of 28mph was wrong. Apparently my 5th battery was almost dead when I bought it. With a full charge I'm getting 30 mph and 27- 28 mph on hills. As for the dc converter, If it fries I'll get a better converter or run the 12v system off of the 5th battery (crude way of getting 12v with no converter LOL). You definitely need to open your battery pack.... I found 2 of the cables in the pack were loose, so I tightened them up while I was in there. As for the gauge of the wire in the pack, it seems to be 10ga. wire. It's pretty small stuff. When I do the 72v conversion ( with a 72v controller and better dc- dc converter of course) I'll rewire the whole scooter, including the battery cables. All the wires seem to be undersized on these scooters. If all goes well to work and back tomorrow on my xb 600, I'll get some pics up on here. I keep forgetting to buy batteries for my camera!! LOL Oh, also, I wouldn't worry too much about the diameter of the coat hanger for the shunt mod. Anything has to be better than what's in the controller already. If you encounter any hills.. at all... ever... you should really start your mods with the shunt mod just for better hill climbing ability. Good Luck and happy Modding!

Found a decent dc- dc converter 72v to 12v for under $150. A little pricey, but more digging may result in a better deal. http://www.powerstream.com/dc-dc.htm

Wow...that is so much more speed...and getting almost as much speed on hills as on flats! Thanks again for the additional info. Also wondered if getting the original batt to match the others might help hold the range a bit since it is 20ah if I recall correctly??? But man I am really impressed with what these mods have done. I do want to wait a bit since you've become the "test" for these mods...and see if anything happens with the motor/controller in the next couple of months. Hopefully both are capable of the voltage/amp increase with no real degradation to the components.

Keep us posted and I'll sure be looking for those pics on here!

Gushar

I rode my xb 600 to work today for some real testing. It performed beautifully, except that a co-worker rode it and laid it down :( . Still, fresh off the chargers it runs 30mph exactly, but after a few miles the top speed is more like 28-29mph and 26-27mph on hills. As for the long term, my 72v controller should be in any day and after the shunt mod and another battery we'll see how tough this motor really is. For a 600 watt motor it's got alot of grunt. The bottleneck on these scooters really seems to be the controller. X-treme could offer alot more scooter if they wanted to. i guess everything is limited for reliabilty. I'm looking into a 2000 watt motor in case this one gets melted from 72v LOL.

Hi guys,

I finally got off my scooter and took some pics. I started a new thread showing how I did the 60v mod on my xb 600. Here is the link http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3534-30-mph-xtreme-xb-600-60v-modification-instructions
Thanks for all the help and advice you guys have given me. When my 72v controller gets here, I guess I'll have to make a new thread again! LOL

Here is the link to the youtube video of my speedometer showing 29mph. I had ridden the scooter for awhile so speed had dropped from 30mph to 28-29mph. It happens, but oh well, it's still so fun to ride. Notice how fast it gets to 29mph!! The shunt mod makes it accelerate so fast! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Sr590DSgw
Let me know what you think.

Found 72v dc-dc converters here for $35 dollars shipped. I have one on order :D http://www.power-factor-1st.com/shop/dc-dc-converter/on-board/sd-15.html

72v chargers...Hmmmm. http://www.evdeals.com/72Vchargers.htm

How are you going to increase the DC-DC converter's max amps up to the 10 amps that the stock converter could deliver (like high beams on, braking with turn signal on)? Also the 72V charger is only rated at 1.2 amps which would take a very long time to charge up. Have you found a 72V charger for a reasonable price that could charge faster? I am watching your progress and potential move up to 72V as I am sitting at 60V on a similar scooter already.

I'm still looking around at prices and options. That soneil charger is the only 72v charger i've found so far. I don't mind slow charging, it's better for the batteries and I charge at night and while I'm at work, so speed charging isn't a big deal for me. As far as the amps on the dc-dc converter.... for $35 I'll try it and see what happens. It's a lot cheaper than the $150 I found on another site. :D

Thanks for your information, James.