Extreme XB-600
Hello everyone I'm new here so take it easy on me.
Got my XB-600 3 days ago and finally got to ride it other than to work.
My impressions...
Top speed is 20mph on flat (I weight 155lbs)
Distance: rode 21 miles today (confirmed by GPS) and still showed 3/4 charge
I did not ride full speed. tried to keep between 10 and 15 mph. I did ride 7.5 miles uphill almost all the way, a 1000 ft climb to the continental divide with no problems. the return trip was much faster using my brakes to keep from going over 40mph.
My jaw about dropped when I saw the box it came in on the truck. Needless to say I have some body damage. Front faring cracked in multiple spots, head light assembly completely broken out of bike, front fender cracked, left side damage.
I got a call back in about 1/2 hour after posting to Extremes website about the damage so I think that is a plus. Will keep you posted as to how long it takes to get the replacement parts.
I had a RAD2GO scooter that cost 4 times as much until I was hit by a car and I must say it's ride was much superior. The tiny shocks make the XB-600 a little rough, but not unbearable.
I tried installing the pedals but they are a joke. You cannot pedal fast enough! I removed the chain to reduce drag, also because it was loose and needed adjusting. easier to remove than adjust.
Lighting is just so so. Even with two headlights (of course mine are taped in place) they don't seem to shine far enough down the road. My mountain bike with a $12 4 AA cell headlight seems to do better. But I must be honest with the headlight assembly taped in place I might not be fair.
There is no small storage unit near the key unless you call a helmet hook a storage place. The under seat storage is ample, I recommend putting the rear storage box on. It will rattle a bit when traversing bumps but the added space is for me a must.
Yes this is an electric bicycle, it is not fast on take off, but it will get you around town with reasonable speed and comfort.
My rating of what was advertised as to what was delivered is a full 8.9 out of 10.
Will try to keep you up to date as my impression grows over the long haul.
The owners manual is a... well lets say less then perfect and if you are not a mechanic then putting on the front wheel may be a bit hard. Other than that you will be riding your XB in about an hour or so.
Ride safe my friends,
James
P.S getting hit by a car broadside does HURT!
:? Hello and Thanks I hope this doesn't count against my 3 posts! New here but have been a lurker while investigating E-bikes. Got lots of good info. Glad to joining the community
James
I bought it off the web from Extreme. Had I known you were 3.5 hours away I'd have been up to see you. We should talk some time. I am thinking about a dealership here. Don't know how many 600s you have sold but I can tell you that they are as advertised .
Sounds like the same light I have on my mountain bike. I got it at Wmart and it works great four modes and the rear light I think has like five modes of lighting. Thanks for the welcome and 73s
james
`JamesS,
Welcome to our V is for Voltage Community, please keep us updated. Your post will be the first post added to the new X-Treme XB-600 Collaborative Hand Books and a new format we're working on.
Stleride
Moderator Team Captain
Moderators are dedicated volunteer V Team members who help keep your V Forums running smoothly and provide Forum Support.
`JamesS,
Don't feel bad, despite what a few a saying, that's typical for X Treme. Advise you check all the bolts and welds also, I've seem several where they just fell apart while being ridden.
G III
"Justifiably Proud"
The welds seem fine. and I have seem more than most, as I have removed most of the body panels to photo for replacement. The frame seems fine for 20mph but I wouldn't ever want to go 50mph with it! It is as advertised an electric bike. It is not a motor scooter. You get what you pay for! Heck I wish it was a Gold Wing! LOL
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usatracy
The statement about welds failing is way to generalizes and comes of as just another slam against X-treme. There is no evidence that I have seen that the model you have suffers weld issues.
I don't think I said the XB-600 had weld problems, I was referring to other models. There is a repair shop close to my House, and we often stop by to just browse. There were a least 12 different X Tremes there once that had various broken welds, and the owner was parting them out for parts, since they weren't worth repairing.
The weld warning came from him not me. He also sells some new and used E Scooters as well as Gas Scooters.
G III
"Justifiably Proud"
` :?
My bad for doing a off topic post, but JamesS was appreciative and thanked me for the information, and that's the only thing that matters to me.
The next time I'm on duty, I'll drop by the shop and pass your information along to Paul, even with over 10 years experience of working on all type of Scooters, I'm sure he will appreciate your input.
G III
"Justifiably Proud"
Well...I HAVE an XB-600 and already commented someplace on here??? about it. I think it's awesome and well worth the money. Find my other post and you'll see the pic of mine. I looked at the welds as best I could see them without removing anything and they look fine to me. This scoot feels very solid and I personally think the shocks make for a smooth ride. I have a bike computer mounted on mine now so I get odometer...more accurate mph, etc....and it's right on with what the previous poster stated about speed. Fast enough for my needs. What I keep wondering is when you apply the front brake (asked this somewhere else on here-no good answer) it is doing something as well to the motor...slowing dramatically the rear wheel turning...which makes for a very good brake. I rate those brakes excellent. I know someone said it might be "regenerative" braking but I don't think it's converting power back...just creating some kind of resistance electrically in the hub motor. Whatever...I like how effective it is at stopping!
I do intend to remove the gauge cover and stop those plug connections from tapping against the inside and making noise. There are two connections in there for the gauges and if you disconnect both the top with gauges is free from the scooter. When plugged there's enough slack in the wiring to allow those plug connections to flop around in there. So I'm going to velcro them to the side or something. I do wonder as well about the seat. Mine is "loose" when it's closed and only sits tight on the scooter with your weight on it. It's really no problem but I just wonder if it is designed to be that way. There's no way I can see to adjust the latching mechanism to pull the seat down tighter against the stop when it is closed....anyone else's that way? I might also mention that if you're looking for the two fuses...I know the spade type one is underneath the rear...up and forward of the wheel along the frame. They have it just sort of hanging under there and I intend to wire tie it to something so it won't just be hanging. And I think I recall the round fuse is back there as well.
Again these are my observations so far. I'm not speculating here. I've been riding this scoot for about a month now...and so far so good!
Gushar
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usatracy
UT I
"Justifiably Correcting"
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Gushar,
Do you think the XB-600 would be a good candidate for some mods? My house is seriously thinking about going in together to get one.
G III
"Justifiably Proud"
Hey Gusher,
I agree that when you apply the front brake the hub motor is braking as well. I don't think it is regenerative. I think it is "a soft brake" reversing polarity and applies voltage to the motor to help brake. I use it a lot here with all the hills and would think perhaps my headlight would brighten if it were regen, perhaps I'm wrong. but I do agree that it aids braking very well.
I would like to add a cycle computer to mine as well for an odometer, have one on my mountain bike but not sure which one to try on the scooter. Tell me what brand, model you have working for you if you don't mind.
My seat is about the same and I really haven't given it much thought.
While you have the instrument cover off also look at the power module mounted there with tie downs. mine was making noise and I secured it better with some electrical tape. also put a wrap of tape on the blinker reminder, to loud for me, now I can hear it fine and it is much quieter.
Ride safe!
JamesS
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JamesS
While you have the instrument cover off also look at the power module mounted there with tie downs. mine was making noise and I secured it better with some electrical tape. also put a wrap of tape on the blinker reminder, to loud for me, now I can hear it fine and it is much quieter.
Your not referring to the controller are you?
It has to be able to dissipate heat, so I don't think it's a good idea to wrap it with tape.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out,
Gman
It does seem to be for the headlights and yes it is a heat sink box. I only put one width of tape on it at the very end to keep it from bouncing around. I should have made that more clear in my post. The motor controller seems to be mounted under the scooter just in front of the center kick stand. Somewhat exposed to the elements if you were to ask me. Any one ridding in the rain?
Ride safe,
JamesS
`
It's there so the air can keep it cool, it's sealed pretty good, but don't advise going through standing water regularly. The braking is the biggest problem in the rain. It also rains in China, and they don't just stop going to work and stuff just because it rains.
BTW Jim can get us one for less than $200, we just need to add the cost of some mods.
G III
"Justifiably Proud"
I just got my xb 600 today. It was delivered to my workplace because I live in a rural area(nowhere to turn a semi around :D). It has the usual damage to the plastic parts :(... No surprise there. Anyway, I put it together at work and charged it up, so I could ride it home when I got off. WOW!! These things suck going uphill. On the flats it's fun and easy to maintain 20mph, but hills drop the speed to about 10mph :(. Needless to say, there were some unhappy motorists behind me. I gotta do something to make this thing faster. If anyone has suggestions post here please. I found 60v and 72v controllers cheap on ebay. will the brushless motor handle one or two more batteries? I like the scooter overall though, worth $739 anyday.
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As most know from my previous posts I own an xb600 and am very pleased with it so far. Yes, it is slow on hills...but then it really isn't designed for hill climbing. Though I live in Florida, there are some small, steep hills near my neighborhood. My xb600, while climbing them slowly, still climbs them dependably. When I hear someone complain about the "hill climbing" ability of the xb600 I often think about "well, how does that compare to peddling a bicycle up that hill?!!" And when I speak of hill climbing I'm not talking of "human assist" while riding the xb600. I've never even tried...haven't even had the peddles on except for a moment to see how they went on. I think the whole idea, as even the websites selling them seem to explain is that the "peddles" are really just to make the scoots legal in all 50 states wherever regular bikes are legal...without registration. And that is, in my opinion, a very smart marketing/design plan!
Ireally enjoy riding my xb600 and it's turning out to be a very practical, environmental/energy wise, form of "neighborhood" transportation. I simply like the fact that while all of my co-workers are complaining about the price of gasoline I remind them that I ride an electric bike/scooter to work daily (my workplace is 2 miles from my home). I actually make the trip 4 times a day. I go home for lunch each day. Certainly this may not be their "ideal" mode of transportation...but it has helped me "introduce" alot of folks to evs. I encourage anyone who asks me about it...to take it for a test ride. And so far all I get are smiles and amazement. Most folks are thrilled at the mobility and the "lack of noise!"
I've noticed a few teens around my area that ride gasoline scooters...like probably 50cc, etc. And while they can go faster I notice that these same scoots struggle on steep hills as well. So, no great gain there over electric unless you get into something much more powerful...and then there's electrics to match those gas burners as well if you want to spend the bucks.
Last but not least...what more can you ask for at a price of only $799?!!! I mean there's a whole lot of regular bicycles that cost that much and alot more! Even dealing with the shipping woes...it's well worth it. And while I didn't have any damage when mine was delivered (amazed I didn't the way they pack them) I did contact xtreme because my speedo wouldn't go all the way down to zero mph...and they responded immediately shipping me a new gauge cluster (which by the way I've never installed since for all intent and purposes the existing one works well enough!).
I've now had my xb600 for almost a year, clocked over 1100 miles (according to the bike computer I installed), and not had any problem other than a flat (tube) from running over a staple in the road. Good luck with your xb600!
Gushar
Thanks for your input Gushar. I wasn't knocking the xb 600 or x-treme at all, I'm very happy with the scooter. It was well worth $750. I rode it forever yesterday with my daughter on the back and we never got to 1/2 charge!! We just had to pull over alot and let cars go around. it would be cool if went faster to match it's flashy looks though. I'm going to order a 72v controller and add two batteries to it and see if the brushless hub motor can survive. If not, I'll have to order a motor for the xm 2000 and put it on there and just run a 60v system. I just need the xb 600 to go 35- 45 mph so I can keep up on the roads. Until I "juice it" I will continue to enjoy it at 20 Mph and wave cars around. LOL
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Oh yeah, I also agree with you on the introducing people to EV's. Since I had mine delivered to my workplace, I think everyone in the place rode it for a bit, everyone that rode it loved it and a few of them want one too, now. :) If anyone is thinking of getting an xb 600, I would say definitely get one, but if you are wanting something to use as a commuter, etc... the xm 2000 or xm 3000 would be a better choice in traffic.
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Hi again,
Back to the mods. I was researching brushless motors and it appears the hub motors from china are made to accept 24v - 72v. We may be able to change the controller and add batteries for more speed without changing the hub motor! YAY! I searched 72v controllers on ebay and found some for 30- 40 bucks. Check out this site for chinese hub motors. Some look really familiar :) Yongkang Success Permanent Magnetic Motor Manufactory
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zerogas,
about moding, I would first feel the motor to see how hot it is getting after a ride. If it is just getting warm than it may tolerate more amps. If it's getting hot to the touch then it is probably working as hard as it can without frying. Also, it would be helpful to know what voltage the controller is sending to the motor on the steep hills. If this is the same as battery voltage, then the controller is not limiting the current, i.e., if the motor voltage does not drop very much when going up a hill. If the controller is limiting the current, than you can get better performance on hills without upping the voltage. All you would need to do is use a higher amp controller. But that may not increase the top speed, it depends. Some of these cheap chinese controllers are really underrated for the motor they are paired with, and will heat up and cut back to protect themselves from frying.
The motor according to Xtreme's website is a brushless hub motor. The controllers for these are a bit more expensive than brush controllers which may have been what you found on ebay.
A speed increase might be just the thing you need, but beware of range limitations. Higher speed, especially up the hills will draw the batteries down much faster, and cut the range significantly. A rule of thumb is if you double the average riding speed, than you half the range. That's why if you want to go a lot faster, than you may need larger batteries and more of them to maintain a suitable range.
The motor would likely tolerate more voltage just fine. The issue though, is if you can't raise the gearing somehow, than it will draw more amps and heat up much more on a higher voltage. Increasing the motor current is really the only way to get better performance by raising the voltage without raising the gearing. This is kind of a disadvantage of hub motors. If you had a chain drive, than you could raise the voltage a lot and the gearing at the same time to increase the top speed, improve hill climbing, increase power output, and this would not require any more current flow which would mean no additional heating. Maybe you could fit a smaller tire on while raising the voltage?
I will check the heat from the motor next time I ride. I ordered a 72v controller already for $68 shipped off ebay, so I'll add 2 more batteries and see what happens. If the motor fries I'll order the 2000 watt motor from extreme and go again. It'll still be cheaper than the xm 2000 and have cool looks too.
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This is all interesting...since I'm an xb600 owner. But what if the controller is limiting amps...as Andrew??or whoever suggested...and the motor can take more? Then, just changing to another suitable controller would give us more speed on hills...as he suggested...right? I mean I know the xb600 has a range of about 30 miles. I did this one time...rode it till I could barely get in the driveway...and I was at 29.2 miles on an accurate bike computer I have installed on mine. I don't really need that range. Most of my rides are 2-3 miles tops. Also, I've felt the motor before to see if it gets hot...on hills as I recall too...and I don't ever recall the motor being anything other than warm. Never hot enough that you couldn't hold your hand on it continuously. Maybe we have a motor that can take more juice...and give us more hill climbing speed if we just switched controllers. So what if we lose even half of the range. 15 miles is still alot of riding for me! Course I'm fine with it the way it is...although it would be nice to go alittle faster up hills. I think you have to weigh in as well "how fast the scooter is really designed for." I mean it rides "solid" at 20-25. But I've been as fast as about 33mph going down a hill...and I don't think it is designed for anything much faster than that. It would be fun to have just an increase to 25mph on the flats. That would be great to me...and certainly fast enough! But again, I'm not complaining...I really do like it just the way it is.
Be sure and let us know if you do mod it and what the results are! And where did you get it for $750? Was that to the terminal? I may want another one in the future and I'd like to know where you got that price.
Gushar
I bought mine off ebay from an authorized dealer (x-treme drop ships). It was actually $739 + shipping. I agree with you on the motor handling more. All the hub motors on the chinese web site I looked at were for 24v- 72v applications. I think they are also limited by the controller somehow. I read somewhere there is a wire you can cut to undo the speed governor(not sure on this). I also don't need 30 mile range. It's 5-6 miles from my house to work, but 12 mph up a hill is unbearable(to me and the cars behind me). If I can get this bike going 30- 35mph and 20- 25 mph up hills with the 72v controller I ordered and 2 more batteries, we'll have some good looking, streetworthy scooters. Even if you ordered the throttle, controller, and motor for the xm 2000 from x-treme and put on the xb 600, it would still cost way less than the xm 2000, and look better too. If this experiment fails, that will be my next try.
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I would like you to consider some things about trying to go faster especially up hills. The specs on your old controller according to X-treme's website is 48V and 48A (2304W) while the new eb@y controller is 72V and 28A (2016W.) If both specs are right, the new controller will be less powerful than the old one and likely accelerate slower but possibly reach a higher speed. I say possibly because to go faster you must overcome wind resistance which goes up by the square of the velocity if the coefficient of drag is constant. To make things worse for the new controller will be the extra weight (~30lbs with two 12V 17-20AH batteries added) which will have to be accelerated too. This should hurt your hill climbing ability although you may be able to build up more speed before hitting the hill initially. To further complicate matters, you need to make sure that your DC-DC converter will handle the extra voltage okay. Most are rated from 30V-60V. This is usually found on a sticker on the bottom of the unit. If you get the new controller, you probably should plan to modify the internal shunt to deliver more than 28A to the motor. During the modification, you should go slow and monitor the motor temperatures after hill climbing and long rides so you don't do damage and need to buy a new brushless hub motor.
The specs on your old controller according to X-treme's website is 48V and 48A (2304W) while the new eb@y controller is 72V and 28A (2016W.)
The specs on X-treme's website are most likely wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if the controller was actually limiting to <20 amps max. 2304 watts is about 9 times as much power as someone in reasonable physical condition can put out for a short period to climb hills on a bicycle. That's close to the max power output of a 50 cc scooter.
But, what you are saying is correct. Actually, if the new controller max current was lower, than hill climbing would most likely be worse. Because what the controller does is limit the voltage to control the current. So on a steep hill if the original current limit was being met than the controller was actually limiting the voltage down to a certain level to drop the current flow. If the new controller current limit is even lower, than the new controller will even drop the voltage below what it was before to keep the current at the limit. The higher voltage on the battery circuit side of the controller would only help reduce current flow from the batteries, and increase range.
To further complicate matters, you need to make sure that your DC-DC converter will handle the extra voltage okay. Most are rated from 30V-60V.
The way to deal with this is to make sure that the DC-DC converter only taps off the original 4 batteries. Then, charge the extra added batteries separately from the originals. This should keep things in balance. For example, if you added 2 batteries, then get a 24v charger for the extra two.
Alright, so how do I modify the shunt? I'm not all that familiar with electrical controllers. I just wanna get to 30-35 and 25 up hills, so any help is greatly appreciated.
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Here is a thread explaining how to modify the shunt in the controller using the old Emax scooter's brushless controller.
More E-max Controller Mods - Shunt Resistor Trick
Also, trying to swapping the motor on the XB-600 to the XM-2000 will not be easy. The motor is wider, has a disk brake instead of a drum brake, and will need the controller and shifting mechanisms from the XM-2000 to work. It is possible but will not be easy.
Thanks jbird,
I think all mods need to start with this controller shunt mod. Very handy info and an easy mod too. I'm tempted to do this today, but I might wait and mod the 72v controller so I have the original as backup. I'll probably go ahead and put 100a FETs and capacitors in too to be on the safe side. If I can get results similar to the pantera from this mod, I'll be happy. It seems he picked up about 10 mph from the shunt mod and 1 more battery going 60v. Imagine 72v though. :D WICKED!
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Ok, I couldn't wait. I ran out to radio shack and bought a 30 watt soldering iron and jerked the 48v controller out of my xb 600. I cut a piece of coat hanger 1 1/2 inches long, drilled 2 holes in my controller board, soldered it, and was rewarded greatly. This controller shunt mod is brilliant. Kudos to whoever discovered this. I can now go 20 mph up hills!! That's an 8- 10 mph increase from what it was before!!! I also do about 22 mph on the flats now. All it took was a piece of coat hanger, are you kidding me. This is the best free mod for the xb 600 for sure! If someone could show me which FET traces to solder, I would put the 5th battery on right now and shoot for 30 mph :D. This is great. Oh, acceleration is much quicker too. I can get to 22mph in seconds. I think with one more battery, I can eclipse the performance the 50cc gas scooters have to offer. AWESOME!!
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- Kudo (1)
James, where'd you buy your XB-600 from?
www.BaseStationZero.com