Hybrid Systems

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Perhaps not practical, but interesting.

People all know that the most efficient way to store energy in the form of a liquid fuel but the best traction engines are electric, so why not build a vehicle with a fuel tank and a small burner that will heat to a battery of Peltier cells, generating electricity and feeding an electric motor system? What do you think?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/10/first-hybrid-patent-awarded-100-years-ago-this-month/

Hi,

Has anyone tested or purchased one of these Veken VM-M50 scooters??

http://www.vekenscooters.com

It sounds interesting, but have no clue about them.
I notice they're claiming a newer 125cc motor coming too,
but no hint of delivery time/price, etc.

Thanks!
Barb

I am planning a diesel electric hybrid, I want to run it as 72 volts, use the small advanced dc (motor and curtis 72v controller.
I have a chineese 10hp diesel that I want to use as the range extender / speed increaser :-)

It will be a three wheel (2 in front 1 in back) 2 seat (36" wide side by side with an 8" stagger) highway capable car with a desired top speed of 80mph and an empty weight of (hopefully) 600 pounds not counting batteries

I want to keep the overall width to 56" (the outside measurements of the front tires) and an overall length of 120" or less.

The original idea was to mount the 2 motors in the rear on a large swingarm and install a centrifigual clutch on the diesel, run a chain from the output of the clutch to the rear wheel and put the electric motor on that same chain.
Problem with that, is the centrifigual clutch that will handle the load of about 13 "gas horsepower" is a dickens to get a hold of and adds unknown efficiency loss, hard to find drive sprockets etc.

Another option is to mate the 10hp diesel to the transaxle of a 1994 geo xfi I have, gear ratios look to be perfect for the engine.

Yet another option (this is where I am unclear) is to run a generator (multiple car alternators?) on the diesel and run it to the electric motor. with this I think *possibly* it would drive at highway speeds on "diesel" power alone, I am unclear about efficiency lost in alternators generators, manual transaxles etc.

I am the type of guy who will build something (have a mechanic I emply build actually) because I think it *may* work and that method is getting expensive ;-)

I am a sponge for advice, and would appreciate any input, help, even willing to pay or barter (I am a marketing guy) for some good advice.

Any Ideas?

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/06/formula_one_rac.html

Read. It's pretty interesting and something I think it's very good. It could lead to truely sporty hybrids through "trickle down," as well as much, much more advanced hybrid systems. I think it will also give the enginears more room to duke it out, because now it's all just 2.4 liter V8s and rev-capped 3.0 liter V10s buzzing away at 20,000 RPM and bodies that create a bunch of downforce, and everyone using bacically the same car. The engineers need a little more wiggle room to make the techknowledgy side of the sport more interesting, so lotus can come up with more awsome ideas (and then get banned from using them2 years later)!

OK, forumla one rant over, but point is it will be great for roadcars too.

Also Companies probably will put thier hybrid systems into other cars, and we might see some hybrid Ferraris winning 24 hours of Le Mans in the future due to increased fuel economy. The 20 KG (thats 50 lbs, right?) limit on the system will help make hybrids lighter, further increasing efficency.

And finally it will midigate the inherent un-sexiness of prettymuch every hybrid today, and we might get some truly sporty hybrids with F1 spearheading performance inovations. The princicple of "Race on sunday, sell on monday" will come into effect hear, and we may get some good performance oriented hybrids popping thier heads up.

Why remove the ICE engine for a BEV conversion when you can instead just add batteries, a motor, and controller and electrify it! The finished vehicle could have no limit in range, and be able to run routine short trips (<15 miles) 100% electric from a small battery pack without using any gasoline. The electric top speed could be set to 45-50 mph requiring a small electric motor (for a light vehicle).

The cost for components and labor could be very inexpensive. All of the components could be bolt on and removable. All of the stock ICE vehicle systems would remain fully functional, i.e., the engine can be left idling for cabin heating and air conditioning and to provide 12v power for all of the 12v accessories. As an option, a DC-DC converter could be used to not have to run the engine for 12v power. An etek RT/Perm PM motor could be used to allow for regen, but it may need to be forced air cooled, and this is only recommended for a light vehicle. It will probably need to be overvolted to 96v as well (I don't know if this is a good idea yet). A 6.7 inch series motor would also be a good compact and light option.

The electrification process would be very easy to do. A small PM motor and direct chain drive to the drive axle could be used. The batteries could be set in the cargo space with a plasctic cover on top of them so cargo can be placed on top. Very limited wiring would need to be done.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing for a Suzuki Sidekick (with associated costs):

Etek-RT: $525
Kelly controller w/regen for up to 120v: $800
Eight B&B EB50-12 batteries $1000?
Vector 12v 40 amp charger: $100
#50 Chain, & sprockets w/custom machining of part to drive axle: $100
Anderson connectors to do series/parallel switching for driving/charging: $100
Wire, Lugs, and fuse: $100
Red button type Albright disconnect: $125
Pedal throttle control: $100
Blower to forced-air cool the motor: $30
Plastic cover for batteries: $15
Material for motor mount: $20
Time cost estimate: 50 hours * $15/hr (I'll be benefiting from it by learning) = $750

So that's $3765 for the electrification. It'll be able to run for about 12 miles off electric which is more than adequate for my daily needs, especially with being able to charge at work. If I need to drive further, then I'll use the ICE when needed.

I can easily remove and sell all of the components if need be, and recover most of the cost. I'll have a fully functional gas vehicle with or without the electrification stuff. The electrification will be so much easier than doing a conversion, and I'll have a much more useful vehicle than what a conversion would offer. I would never need to give a 2nd thought to range.

FYI,
Treff said thee will not be a Tahoe Hybrid at the event today.

http://tinyurl.com/2c5qz2

Piaggio Hybrid Scooters

Dump that gas-guzzling Prius...
By Bruno de Prato
August 2007

Remember when filling the gas tank on your bike cost four dollars? That will probably never happen again (unless you have a one-gallon tank), but last year Piaggio announced it was testing some prototype hybrid scooters. Since then, Piaggio’s technicians have gone a few steps farther, honing the power unit and related electronic-management systems and installing them in their super-stable MP3 three-wheeler. This 250cc prototype, dubbed the MP3 HyS (for “Hybrid Scooter”), is the largest hybrid they’ve tested so far; the previous prototypes were based on the tiny Vespa LX50 and middleweight Piaggio X8 125.

The production MP3 HyS will use the same 125cc/electric hybrid powerplants as the smaller X8 HyS, but its structure and surefooted chassis will better handle the extra mass and weight of the large battery pack and other ancillaries. At this stage the battery pack still uses heavy lead-acid cells, but Piaggio is hard at work with specialists in the battery industry to obtain reliable and cost-effective lithium-ion batteries. These should have 40 percent less mass and weight. The rest of the project is almost finalized and has been tested to the point that Piaggio confirmed to me that they will put their MP3 125 HyS into production by the end of 2008.

They also let me test the three different hybrid scooters they’ve developed so far. Of these, the most interesting were the tiny Vespa LX50 HyS and the MP3 HyS. Power comes from the standard internal-combustion engine teamed to a 2-hp electric motor, which is tidily inserted in the hub of the rear wheel so that the standard CVT transmission can remain in place. The two power sources work in parallel and the pilot can select the operation mode best suited to his needs by simply rotating a rheostat in the dashboard. In full-on two-motor mode, performance increases can reach up to 85 percent, primarily on acceleration, when the electric unit delivers gobs of extra torque.

This little knob lets the rider select the power mode. Options on the MP3 are “Balanced Power-Recharge,” “Priority to Power,” “Priority to Recharge,” “Electric Power Only” and—because of its three-wheel configuration—“Reverse.”

Now there’s less room to stash your helmet or gallon jug of soy milk, but triple-digit fuel economy should make up for that. The X8 HyS has sufficient room for a helmet, and the Vespa LX50 HyS comes with a top box for your lid.

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