Vectrix

One of the possibilites of the Lithium Gold Peak Battery Pack for Vectrix is this one :

http://www.evbtech.com/Data%20Sheet/TDS%20GP30EVLF.pdf

if you go to : http://www.evbtech.com/ and then press the link to PRODUCT it will direct you to the Packs they deal with (the page seems to be zoomed down, so you might have to zoom it up with the icon in the lower right hand corner) just go through all the possible packs they deal with.

Anyone saw this on the web?
Report title: GP Batteries International Ltd acquires New Vectrix LLC (pending)
from Thomson Financial Mergers & Acquisitions
published Nov 06, 2009

Price $36.00 available for immediate download
Report Overview About Thomson Financial Mergers & Ac...

US - GP Batteries International Ltd of Singapore planned to acquire the entire share capital of New Vectrix LLC, a special purpose acquisition vehicle formed for the purpose of acquiring Vectrix Corp, for USD #.## mil in cash.

http://www.alacrastore.com/storecontent/Thomson_M&A/GP_Batteries_International_Ltd_acquires_New_Vectrix_LLC-2125461020

Notes on the Vectrix Battery – (Use, Improvements and Charging)

The NiMH battery chemistry is a topic which, for most of us, is shrouded in mystery. Myths seem to form a large part of what this chemistry is about and how it should be treated or not treated as the case may be.
The following script lists and explains a number of items which have been fished out of the muddy waters surounding the use and maintenance of NiMH batteries and particularly the battery used in the Vectrix VX1 Maxi-scooter.

First of all, some observations made whilst investigating the Vectrix battery application.

The 'New' Battery as supplied by G.P. Batteries

The battery as supplied by G.P. Batteries of Hong Kong to Vectrix, consists of 102 cells of (nominally) 1.2 volts per cell providing a total voltage, when charged, of about 138 volts (1.35 Volts per cell).
The cells have been selectively matched for capacity, open circuit voltage and internal resistance before being built up into the pair of batteries (front battery of 48 cells and the rear battery of 54 cells)
The batteries were supplied to Vectrix as paired, matched batteries with a long life expectancy.

There will, of course, always be minor variations in the individual cells because, no matter how close the tolerances are in manufacture, there will always be some difference between the specific characteristics of the individual cells. Also, the internal resistance of each cell increases with ageing and cell 'ageing' can itself be increased through miss-use, resulting in some cells of a battery ageing more quickly than others.
If this characteristic of the battery is not catered for in the design of the charge / discharge system, the inevitable result will be battery failures.

The Vectrix Design

Vectrix were in total control of the design of the scooter in terms of the mechanical, electronic and electrical side of things. Unfortunately, there have proved to be some deficiencies in the design of the electronics which have resulted in some problems with the batteries. Some of these problems have now been overcome, some are still to be dealt with. The problems are listed below along with some possible remedial actions.

The main problems experienced by owners of the Vectrix VX1 have been connected with the power source i.e. the battery and it's performance. Basically, complaints have been about poor range (Low mileage), blown fuses, failures of the battery cooling impellers, battery overheating, during riding and whilst on charge, the appearance of the 'red' battery indicator (low battery Voltage) and the BATHOT (battery hot) symbol and occasionally the BUSULT (Battery under safe Voltage) warning.

All of the above has been investigated and the following script contains the findings of that investigation.
Uneven individual cell heating and Battery overheating.

It has been noted that under conditions of high power discharge (hard riding / hill climbing) some of the cells within the battery suffer a greater heating effect than others.
It has also been noted that, on long hill descents, regenerative braking also results in the heating of some cells more than others (and all cells when the battery is near to 'full').
This has the effect that those cells which are hotter suffer from greater internal losses than the cooler cells and this in turn creates an imbalance in the individual cell charges i.e. some cells have more or less ampere hours stored than others.

The 'knock on' effect of the above is that the situation just gets worse and the cells become further imbalanced over time. This imbalance, if allowed to get out of hand, results eventually in low range and/or the appearance of various warning symbols and, at worst, a damaged battery.

The reasons for these heating effects

The basic reason that the cells heat up in use is because each cell has a voltage, a capacity and an internal resistance. The voltage and capacity are both of great value to us but the resistance is the unwanted feature of all batteries.

The resistance of a battery limits the current that can be drawn from the battery. When the voltage at the terminals drops due to the current being drawn, you are seeing the effect of the battery's resistance. The higher this resistance the less current can be drawn for a given voltage drop.

When current is passed through a resistance heat is generated. This heat can be measured or calculated. The heat in watts is equal to IxIxR (the current squared, multiplied by the resistance). In the Vectrix battery the cell resistance is quoted at 'less than 1.2 milli ohms' i.e.0.001 ohms.

If we assume that the actual figure is 1.0 milli ohms then when 100 amperes is drawn from the battery the internal heating effect will be '100 x 100 x 0.001' = 10 watts per cell or 1020watts (1.02 kWatts) for the whole battery. This is a considerable amount of heat and it all has to go somewhere.
Heat effect whilst riding

On a single ride using the 'full' battery capacity (say 24 Amp Hours) at an average speed of 40 MPH, the Vectrix draws (on average) 25 Amps giving a range of just under 40 miles. At 25 amps drawn the heating effect is (IxIxR x 102 cells) 25x25x0.001x102 = 63.75 watts.
A total of just under 63 watt hrs.

On the same ride, but at 50 MPH the Vectrix draws 40 Amps and the range is about 30 miles. At 40 amps drawn the heating effect is 40x40x0.001x102 = 163.2 watts. A total of 97.92 watt hrs.

The heat generated within the battery increase rapidly as the current drawn increases. It also has less time to dissipate as the riding time becomes shorter with increased current drawn.

Heating effects whilst charging

When the battery is charged, current is passed through the cells and the chemical process of discharge is reversed. During charging, the cells again generate heat and this heat is also the result of the internal resistance and the charging current ( IxIxR). In addition to the IxIxR heating is the 'extra' heating which occurs in the final stages of charging. This heat is generated due to the chemical processes 'slowing down' as the battery becomes more full. At this point the cell voltage begins to rise more quickly and heat is generated more quickly. The usual practice is to reduce the charging current to a lower level where these effects are minimised (they cannot be removed altogether) with more of the energy ending up in the cells and less of the energy creating heat.

Heating effects whilst standing

A heating effect which can easily be overlooked is that of 'solar radiation' as in, Sunshine.
In a cooler climate, the problem is minimised and conversely, in a warm/hot climate the problem can become serious. Heat from direct sunshine on the top of the walk through covers will generate a lot of heat which will find it's way into the upper battery cell layers. Heat from a hot roadway will tend to heat the lower battery cell layers.

Heating effects of Regenerative Braking

Regenerative braking is a wonderful way of 'putting fuel back in the tank' free of cost. However, regenerative braking is also just another way of charging the battery and, If heavy regenerative braking is used when the battery is near full (say over 80% full), then the heating effects, (which occur in the later stages of charging), can produce serious overheating. Even short bursts of regenerative braking can result in serious heating and damage.

Dealing with the problems

First of all, the causes of the excess heating should be removed or reduced where possible.

Secondly, where the causes cannot be removed, the resulting heat should be removed or reduced as effectively as possible.

Finally, the results of the remaining heat 'damage' i.e. the resulting 'imbalance' of the cells. must also be dealt with as effectively as possible.

The following lists the causes of the excessive heating and some ways to correct this.

Excessive current demand:-

Reduce the current demand. This could be as simple as advising riders to adopt a more easy riding style and make them aware of the effects (shorter battery life) of 'aggressive' / 'enthusiastic' riding.
It is feasible but highly undesirable (and commercially suicidal) to reduce the power available through the scooters software. This could however, be an option where the owner requests it (perhaps on scooters for hire etc).

Regenerative braking:-

Regenerative braking has the sole purpose of 'putting fuel back in the tank' free of cost. It is therefore both practical and desirable to re-arrange the software to restrict the energy generated when braking to a level which the battery can accept without causing damage. The 'new' behaviour could be 'learned' by the rider and should not be a problem. Regenerative braking is NOT a substitute for friction brakes, it is an added extra and should only ever be treated as such.

Charging the battery:-

The charging process, as programmed into the Vectrix, is flawed. The initial part of the charge where the charge current is at 'C.P. (constant power) is correct. It is the later stages that present the problem.

The '3 Amp top-up' which follows the initial charge appears to take no account of the temperature rise which occurs when the battery is in an unbalanced state. There is no reason why the software should not detect an abnormal rise in temperature (as caused by any group unbalanced cells) and, instead of proceeding with the 'top-up', move on to an 'equalising' charge but not at the rate currently used..

The 'equalising charge' set at slightly under 3 amps is excessive. At 3 amps considerable heat is generated.

Note

Some literature states that 'equalising charges' should not be applied to NiMH batteries and that 'charging at low current is undesirable'. These well meaning statements do not take into account the problems of unbalanced cells as occur in the Vectrix battery. There is no practical reason why the imbalance cannot be corrected as suggested here. In fact there is no other way to correct the imbalance. The Vectrix needs an equalising charge.

In terms of the level of current suggested (0.3 amps). Bench tests have shown that 0.3 amps will correct any imbalance without generating excessive heat. Duracell's literature states that a continuous current of 0.3%C can be used to 'float charge' NiMH cells for use where the cells must be maintained in a fully charged state. The 0.3%C is to balance the cells internal losses and to maintain it in a 'fully charged' condition. This statement shows that low current charging is NOT damaging to the cells.

Solar Heat:-

Where solar heating is a problem it may be feasible to simply park the bike in shade or cover the bike with a heat reflective cover when parked. When riding, the effects of direct sunshine and road radiation will be largely negated by the airfow over and under the bike. What cannot be avoided is the high ambient temperatures, but remember that the higher temperatures in themselves are NOT necessarily a problem. The problems suffered by the Vectrix batteries are caused by the uneven cell temperatures, within the battery pack. This 'uneven cell temperature' is the major cause of damage and eventual failure of the battery.

Incidentally:

The NiMH battery specifications (according to Duracell) allow for a 'recommended temperature range' of 0 to 40 Degrees C and a 'permissible temperature range' of -20 to +50 degrees C on discharge and for charging they 'recommend a temperature range' of 10 to 30 degrees C and a 'permissible temperature range of 0 to 45 degrees C. (Needless to say, the nearer the middle of the 'recommended' temperature range the batteries are operated the longer they will last.)

Heat removal:

Heat removal is essential where heat is generated but not wanted. That said, in cooler climates some heat generated within the battery housing could prove beneficial especially in near freezing conditions.

For most places where the Vectrix is operated, heat removal is necessary. Also necessary, but not much considered, is the idea of keeping the temperature of all of the battery's cells as even as is possible. Both of these objectives would be largely achieved if the Vectrix's plenum fans were run whenever the scooter was in use. Therefore it would be desirable for the plenum fans to run whenever:-

a/ the scooter was in use, either being charged or being driven and,

b/ the cell temperatures differed (from each other) by more than a few degrees.

c/ any of the cells were at (say) five degrees above the ambient temperature.

d/ and whenever any combination of a/ plus b/ and/or c/ exists.

All of the above improvements could be programmed into the software.

The Damage limitation – Dealing with the imbalance.

None of the above 'corrections' will prevent the problems of imbalance, they will simply reduce it to one of manageable proportions.
The imbalance can only be corrected by overcharging some cells whilst bringing the remainder up to a fully charged condition.
The overcharging of cells will inevitably reduce their life and the more current during this overcharge the more will be the resulting damage/ageing.

The only practical way to equalise the cells is to pass a low current through the whole battery until the battery voltage stops rising and remains at a steady level for a predetermined time period.

In view of the above it has been found that an equalising current of 0.3 amps is far more effective and far less damaging to the cells than the present 3.0 amps used by Vectrix.

The above suggestions could be incorporated into the charger software. The actual equalising current provided by the charger (via it's software) would have to be increased to account for the current being drawn to run the two plenum fans. Estimated 'equalising' current would probably be 0.3 amps for the battery Plus the current required by the plenum fan power converter (I am assuming that it is taken from the battery rather than directly from the charger)

Without access to the software.

Most of the above would be difficult to achieve and some of it impossible. However, I have already fitted my own Vectrix with an input system for the purposes of providing a 'safer' equalising charge. (It also allows me to resurrect the battery if it ever falls below the voltage necessary to start the charger)

It is also possible to provide the plenum fans with an alternative source of power and therefore have control over them.

The regenerative braking can be dealt with by 'learning' when it is safe to use it and equally, when it is advisable not to use it.

Finally,

If anyone has access to the software writing programmes, I could make good use of a copy. ( pirated or otherwise) I do not condone software piracy BUT I bought an electric scooter and I expect to be provided with all possible information whereby I can maintain my property. I now require this software and if a 'pirate' copy is all I can get, then so be it. Please contact me via the forum

Owning a VX-1 and living in the country in hot weather is a bit frustrating, so it has me dreaming about a better battery solution for my bike. There don't seem to be any systems available off the shelf, so it looks like I'll have to do it myself. New territory for me so I thought I'd start a thread to get ideas flowing and see if we can collectively come up with a safe, feasible design.

I want better range, so doubling the capacity would be nice. I also want better temperature tolerance. LOTS of reading on the interweb points to LiFePO4 being the best current solution.

Mik's info about the factory pack dimensions shows that fitting 40 cells of any of the commercially avilable prismatic cells into the standard battery cavity will be tricky, bigger than 20Ah cells become a geomtric nightmare. These cells might striggle with peak current draw.

I looked at larger format cylindrical cells a little, could be the way to go, but I didn't find a neat tesallation for the packaging constraints.

26650 cells look promising

Laying them the length of the battery box, you might be able to get 10 65mm cells and carefully sized connections in the 700mm available. 8 x 26 mm will fit across the bottom 230mm space. Atleast 11 cells high will fit in the 330 space available. I need to get some drawings done to clarify I think...

Anyway, it looks like a pack built of a series of 40 modules of 22 cells in parallel will fit. that'd be a 50Ah pack :)

I think it should be do able, the Killacycle uses these cells (with a really rudamentary BMS that I really could live with) and Tesla uses smaller versions of the same cells in I guess a similar configuration.

Copying Teslas solution would be the easiest thing, but I haven't found much detail about the pack construction.

I need to consider:
individual cell protection against dead shorts (individual fuses)
cooling air flow
cell support and vibration dampening
electrical connection between cells, modules, and banks of modules in the pack
BMS
integration with factory vectrix charging and battery monitoring.

I have 10 cells to play with some designs.

I have some plans, I'll try to get some drawings past "mud map" stage and post them.

Please contribute freely

Intresting to know that GM has "learned that the battery management system is the key to extracting the best life and performance out of the battery."
So anyone (NEW VECTRIX) interested in improving the Vectrix should take notice.

limk
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/11/17/gm-provides-update-on-volt-vehicle-and-battery-development/

Hello,

The ‘Hesketh’ team have been monitoring this website for the past few months and have been overwhelmed with the passion shown for the Vectrix Electric scooters. We have taken on board all comments both positive and negative, and intend to utilize all the valuable information you have gathered whilst using your bikes. We understand that there are some important issues that need to be addressed such as spare parts and technical support, yet the overall product as we all know is fantastic, thus we intend to keep the positives and iron out the negatives.

To clear up any misunderstanding and speculation this is the position:

Hesketh Motorcycles Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hesketh Motor Company Ltd.

Hesketh Motorcycles Ltd entered into and exclusive agreement with Vectrix Poland on the 1st October 2009 to become the sole importer for the Vectrix range of bikes in the UK, Eire and Channel Islands. All bikes will be re-branded and sold under the Hesketh Motor Company brand.

All new bikes sold under the HMC brand will have a full 2 years parts and labour warranty, supported by the manufacturer.

All bike spare parts and accessories are now available and can be ordered by going to www.heskethmotorcycles.net clicking the ‘spare parts/accessories’ tab and simply explaining what you require in the ‘comments’ section. You will then be contacted by one of our team. Note: we will only supply spare parts and accessories to individuals or companies resident within our importer territory.

Through the services of EVAssist, HMC is delighted to announce that it has retained the services of Steve Scott for warranty and servicing work on Vectrix and Hesketh bikes. Steve can be contacted through our website.

For enquiries relating to warranties prior to the 1st October 2009 please contact us again through our website.

HMC.

Some good news for Vectrix owners in the UK.
Steve Scott, all round top bloke and Vectrix expert (until last week, European Technical Director for Vectrix) has set up a business looking after the needs of UK Vectrix owners in terms of spares, servicing etc. As an early purchaser of a Vectrix, I can vouch for Steve's quality of work and diligent approach, as can many others. The attached file gives more details.

Went to the local electric car dealer as the place I bought the bike is a Mitsubishi dealer. Asked them what people do for maintenance on electric bikes. They said you want to change the oil in the fork as that way you remove the burrs that were from production that are now suspended in the oil. Removing the burrs keeps them from wearing out the fork over time.

Since they had NEVER heard of the Vectrix I just thought I would ask here before having them work on the bike. They did have lots of other electric vehicles including scooters.

What do people do to maintain their bikes besides keeping it correctly charged?

-Randy

I am new to this forum but I have been reading with interest some of the topics that have been posted over the last few months It is a lot of information to read through however and I was wondering if there was an eassier way the find a particular topic more quickly? Some sort of search program maybe?
regards Rob.

Its been a very hot week in adelaide with 3 days in a row of 39c
I have been watching the battery temp and at one stage it reached 50c and the bathot warnig appeared on the dash. However after a small trip yesterday I noticed the range display was reading zero but I had about 3/4 of my battery bars still but the battery bars were flucuating up and down by about 2 bars depending on whether you accelerated or not I have been using the pre cooling method to delay the charge by holding in the right brake lever whilst turning the key off and this has been working ok untill now but when I plug in now I get nothing ..no fans no charge can anyone suggest what I can look for please I have almost 4000 klms on it now
regards rob