integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

27 posts / 0 new
Last post
antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

this is a follow on from this thread:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13672-vectux-charger-dead-now-what

1) (= fast summer charge for NiMH 102 cells):
Start charge at 0.5A and increase to voltage dependent values below over 30seconds (soft start for generators etc).
If voltage is below 125V, charge at 0.5A until 125V.
If voltage is between 125V and 130V, charge at 3A.
If voltage is between 130V and 135V, charge at 6A.
If voltage is between 135V and 140V, charge at maximum amps.
If voltage is between 140V and 142V, charge at 6A.
If voltage is between 142V and 145V, charge at 1.5A.
If voltage is 145V, charge in CV mode.

2) (= gentle summer charge NiMH when not in a hurry):
Start charge at 0.5A and increase to voltage dependent values below over 30seconds (soft start for generators etc).
If voltage is below 125V, charge at 0.5A until 125V.
If voltage is between 125V and 130V, charge at 3A.
If voltage is between 130V and 135V, charge at 6A.
If voltage is between 135V and 140V, charge at 6A.
If voltage is between 140V and 142V, charge at 6A.
If voltage is between 142V and 145V, charge at 1.5A.
If voltage is 145V, charge in CV mode.

3) (= emergency charge from a weak source):
Start charge at 0.5A and increase to voltage dependent values below over 30seconds (soft start for generators etc).
If voltage is below 125V, charge at 0.5A until 125V.
If voltage is between 125V and 130V, charge at 3A.
If voltage is between 130V and 135V, charge at 3A.
If voltage is between 135V and 140V, charge at 3A.
If voltage is between 140V and 142V, charge at 3A.
If voltage is between 142V and 145V, charge at 1.5A.
If voltage is 145V, charge in CV mode.

I haven't played around with the different charge profile options (nor do I know how to change between them)

for what it's worth, Elcon and TC Charger aren't the same company, I'm not even sure who the manufacturer is, but they have a common one
The 10 charge profile option may be specific to Elcon

I normally deal with TC Charger - the ones I get from them only have one charge profile, which I can specify at the time of ordering

so for a nimh batttery, I would specify 10A 145v, cc-cv (or maybe even 10A, 1.5A, 145v) cc-cc-cv (not sure how many phases are possible)

I would then put a trim-pot across the enable circuit to lower the current limit from 10A to whatever I want

as for mods needed for the charger:
a fan is a yes - the heatsink won't have the right orientation for passive cooling to work properly, but with forces cooling it should be ok
The case will need to be modified - I'm hoping I can send a CAD drawing and have the charger come with the right case
My other option is to manufacture heaps of the right case shape and sell/ship them separately (swapping the cases just involves undoing tek screws, nothing major)

Matt

oobflyer
oobflyer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: Friday, August 8, 2008 - 09:12
Points: 383
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

I haven't had any problems (yet) with my original charger, but it's nice to know there are options available when the time comes.
Would one of these TC, or Elcon chargers work with my 50AH LiFePo battery?

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

I haven't had any problems (yet) with my original charger, but it's nice to know there are options available when the time comes.
Would one of these TC, or Elcon chargers work with my 50AH LiFePo battery?

yes - I have actually used one on my own vectrix for the past 4 years

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

The TC Charger bracket are now available, that allow you to install a 1500W TC Charger in the same place as the original Vectrix charger, using the same bolt holes

DSC_0285.JPG

DSC_0299.JPG

The Price of the bracket is AUS$90 + shipping or $120 + shipping including a fan

The bracket replaces the original TC Charger casing

The fan is needed to improve the cooling of the charger, as the heatsink isn't oriented properly for passive cooling to work

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

heathyoung
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 21:11
Points: 90
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

NICE.

Put me down for one, the LED power supplies I use work, but 600W charging is sloooooow when you use 30AH.

Are those leaf cells I spot as well? I'm in the middle of leafing (another) Vectrix. I've gone overkill on the cell interconnects though. (25mm X 9mm busbars!)

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Are those leaf cells I spot as well? I'm in the middle of leafing (another) Vectrix. I've gone overkill on the cell interconnects though. (25mm X 9mm busbars!)

they sure are

I'll email you regarding payment and sending the bracket over and such

I use the interconnects from the nimh cells - they're just the right size

also they're pretty heavy, but 9mm x 25mm is huge!!

I'm using a CAN based BMS - with a display that shows every cell voltage on my bike

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

I'm using a CAN based BMS - with a display that shows every cell voltage on my bike

If it has not already been mentioned elsewere: could you enlighten us on the exact type/make/availability of that CAN-based BMS?

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix
I'm using a CAN based BMS - with a display that shows every cell voltage on my bike

If it has not already been mentioned elsewere: could you enlighten us on the exact type/make/availability of that CAN-based BMS?

It's manufactured by a friend's company:
http://www.zeva.com.au/

I use 3 x 12 cell BMS modules, with an EVMS Lite and an EVMS display for my leaf module conversion.
I plan on making a kit out of it, I just have to finish my first one, and ride it around for a while to make sure there are no issues.

The BMS is programmable, so it can be used with any chemistry
4 x 12 cell modules would be needed for a LiFePO4 pack.

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

MEroller
MEroller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 09:24
Points: 847
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Thanks for the info, antiscab :-)

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

zwrtw
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 11:00
Points: 57
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Hello all,
I am new in this forum. First I want to thank all forum members for sharing so much information. Specially Mik and Antiscab. Without your posts it would be much harder for me to convert my Vectrix to different cells.

I am in the middle of converting a Vectrix to 72Ah Calb Cam cells. I use an Elcon charger of 2500 W. This has the same size as the 1500W version, bus has a fan for cooling. I fitted the charger just the other way round as Antiscab did. Antiscabs way is smarter in the sense that he did not need to move the AC wire. In my case the original position of the AC wire would have collided with the front forks.
P1010084.JPG

heathyoung
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 21:11
Points: 90
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

That's a 2500W version?

Do you have any closer pictures of the mountings on that? I've got one of those chargers already, didn't think it would fit.

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

I am in the middle of converting a Vectrix to 72Ah Calb Cam cells.

If you have access to CAM cells, the 80Ah cells will also fit

I use an Elcon charger of 2500 W. This has the same size as the 1500W version, bus has a fan for cooling.

was this a special order? I tried to buy one from TC Charger early in the year and they said they no longer made the 2500W charger

If installing with the heatsink not well oriented (as we both have to in order to fit in the original charger position) you either need to increase the cooling or decrease the charger output

I thought the 2500W was the same size as the 2000W?
I'm very interested if they are the same size as the 1500W :D

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

zwrtw
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 11:00
Points: 57
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

@heathyoung: the original mountingflaps of the charger will make it impossible to fit. I made a new housing for the charger with some new mountings to fit the Vectrix brackets.

@ antiscab: you are correct, the 1500W version is a bit smaller. according to elconchargers.com the size for 1500W is 352x175x139mm; the 2500W is 352x195x139mm. The 2500W version does fit! I ordered the charger last September and it was no problem (rebbl.com in Holland).

The 2500W version has a fan mounted on its housing for cooling. I asume that the orientation for natural flow is somewhat less important as the flow caused by the fan is much more than natural air flow through temerature differences. But I am aware that the cooling finns are not in the "optimal" position and that the flow inside the Vectrix bodywork is restricted. So I will keep an eye on the temperature! I have the possibility to restrict charge current. During the tests now, it charges the pack with about 16A.

I could not get hold on the CAM80 cells. I read about the cam 80 I think at EV TV or so. Are they the same size? I can get 38 cell in the "basement" of the Vectrix, 4 cells have to go on the "first floor" so hight matters. The calb cam 72 cells are listed on the calb website, the 80's are not. The cam 72 cells are available in the Netherlands and Germany.

P1010083.JPGP1010082.JPGP1010098.JPG

heathyoung
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 21:11
Points: 90
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

I thought so - I was going to remove all of the mounting tabs off my 2Kw unit and use some 90 degree angle iron either welded or riveted to the case.

Did you have problems with the positioning of the cable glands as well?

Those cells are interesting. Quite small!

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

having seen how the 2000W could fit - I could look into making up a new mounting bracket for the 2000W TC Charger as well

Don't hold your breath though, the bracket for the 1500W took me 14 months to sort out :p

Once the EMW 12kw charger is a bit more proven, I'll see if I can cram the water cooled version of that in

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Mik
Mik's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 15:27
Points: 3739
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix
I'm using a CAN based BMS - with a display that shows every cell voltage on my bike

If it has not already been mentioned elsewere: could you enlighten us on the exact type/make/availability of that CAN-based BMS?

It's manufactured by a friend's company:
http://www.zeva.com.au/

I use 3 x 12 cell BMS modules, with an EVMS Lite and an EVMS display for my leaf module conversion.
I plan on making a kit out of it, I just have to finish my first one, and ride it around for a while to make sure there are no issues.

The BMS is programmable, so it can be used with any chemistry
4 x 12 cell modules would be needed for a LiFePO4 pack.

Wow! They make some very useful gadgets.

How does the built-in CAN-Bus get along with the EVMS Lite and the display? Or do you wire a separate CAN-Bus for the ZEVA gadgets?

Can you use the 110km/h MC software with this setup?

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

zwrtw
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 11:00
Points: 57
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

@ heathyoung: sorry for the delayed answer. I tried to answer, but somehow it didn't work.

Removing the mounting tabs and use angle iron should do the trick. I did move the AC wire cable gland. You could try facing the cooling fins to the steering head as Antiscab did. It could be that you don't need to move the AC wire when you do that.

And yes, the Calb Cam cells are small for prismatic LiFePO4 cells with that capacity!

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Wow! They make some very useful gadgets.

How does the built-in CAN-Bus get along with the EVMS Lite and the display? Or do you wire a separate CAN-Bus for the ZEVA gadgets?

Can you use the 110km/h MC software with this setup?

Hi Mik,

sorry for the delayed response - my first one disappeared

at present the BMS is on it's own separate CAN-Bus
at some point I would like to merge the two - that would require some modification of both the charger firmware, the MC firmware and the ICMR firmware to be useful

the MC firmware is irrelevant - so yes you can load the 110kmh firmware

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

h0tr0d
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 10:39
Points: 26
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

P1010082.JPGP1010098.JPG

Very nice job!!! Best of luck!

I'm looking for the same solution (Vectrix + CAM72's) for myself
I see 38 cells, are you going to put 4 more?

By removing the old charger everything still works? No SW issues, make this an plug and play solution?

Thanks!

zwrtw
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 11:00
Points: 57
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

P1010104.JPGP1010106.JPGP1010107.JPG

Some pictures during the conversion... The 4 more cells are on the "second floor". Removing the Original charger doesn't give any problems. The only thing is that the estimated range does not work anymore and the SOC bargraph changes to a voltage bargraph. For that reason a made a Arduino based SOC gauge.

h0tr0d
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 10:39
Points: 26
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

the SOC bargraph changes to a voltage bargraph. For that reason a made a Arduino based SOC gauge.

Lairds SW or still original? Personally, with LFP batteries, I would prefer to see battery amps in the bargraph.

Where can we see the Arduino SOC gauge, parts, BOM, schematics, etc?

zwrtw
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 11:00
Points: 57
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Original software. I can see the amps on my SOC meter. I will make a seperate thread for my Vectrix.

h0tr0d
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 10:39
Points: 26
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Removing the Original charger doesn't give any problems. The only thing is that the estimated range does not work anymore and the SOC bargraph changes to a voltage bargraph. For that reason a made a Arduino based SOC gauge.

That's weird... My local Vectrix guy says that the bikes do not work without the original charger plugged!
Antiscab, Mik or Zrwtw, are you sure no other mod for the charger removal to work?

Thanks!

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

That's weird... My local Vectrix guy says that the bikes do not work without the original charger plugged!
Antiscab, Mik or Zrwtw, are you sure no other mod for the charger removal to work?

the original fuel gauge does not work, but everything else still works

I haven't had an original charger installed for 4 years

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

h0tr0d
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 days ago
Joined: Monday, January 12, 2015 - 10:39
Points: 26
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Hi Antiscab,

Firstly, I'm a fan of your work and videos, thanks.

Like I asked before, no other mod is necessary? Just remove the old charger and install the new one? No programming, nothing?
And this only works with Nimh bikes with ESD chargers or all Vectrix are the same regarding this?

Thanks!

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

It will work with all nimh bikes

the official lithium bikes I haven't tested enough with - the original BMS may not work (and I would replace anyway) and the MC might be needing some info from the charger

Easy enough to test, just unplug the charger on your bike and take it for a ride
If it rides normally, you don't need the original charger

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

R
R's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 09:46
Points: 1758
Re: integrating a TC Charger 1500W into a vectrix

Easy enough to test, just unplug the charger on your bike and take it for a ride
If it rides normally, you don't need the original charger

I tested this , li vectrix works with charger unplugged. And makes sense: imagine a vectrix at 110 km/h on a hiway, and the charger dies! The system MUST keep the wheel spinning without the charger!

Log in or register to post comments


Who's online

There are currently 0 users online.

Who's new

  • CYBRTRKR
  • ericaturner
  • 2008VectrixForSale
  • flapjacksbestof
  • incomefun

Customize This