Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

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sixpax2k9
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Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

I have posted a few times with no avail..... My xb600 is acting weird... Its upgraded to 60V and with the pack at 63V it starts to die out on me. The pack reads 63V but under load it drops to under 48V, but when I let off the throttle it jumps back to 63V!!!! I dont know where I need to be looking!!! I have all the bike covers off with access to the controller and all wiring. I can not see anything wrong with any components of the controller. I have the rear wheel off now, but I cant seem to figure out how to open up the rear hub motor!!!!

Any help or suggestions PLEASE !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

mf70
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

BREATHE DEEP !#!#!#!#

BE METHODICAL!@!@!@!@!@!@!@

Check the batteries. Are they all fully charged? Do they all have enough capacity? Check each element of the circuit for melting or damage.

Even stock voltages can lead to melting; when you add a battery, you are changing the electrical supply by an enormous amount.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

guess I shoulda said i already checked batteries. all check out fine. Opened up the controller, cant see any damage. Opened up and checked the motor, all seems fine there too. This all happened after one day it quit on me, the fuse/fuse holder and 2 wires to the motor had shorted out. I replaced the fuse holder and fuse, I then used some 14 gauge wire to repair all the wires going to the motor. The whole bike is together with all the covers off for trouble shooting. Even the stock battery gauge shows low voltage even though i never modified it for 60V. Its so odd, perhaps its in the throttle???? Until the pack gets down below 64V it works perfectly fine like nothing is wrong, but when you give it gas, the voltage drops by a good 15V. Thus when the pack gets down to 63V or lower and you hit the throttle, the pack drops down under 47V thus hitting the low voltage cut off??? If I back off the throttle and accelerate VERY slowly it seems to work a bit better. Also.... i have removed my shunt mod on the controller for now. I dont care if I have to replace something etc. I just need to find out WHAT to replace to fix this problem as I have no other way to get around. I am charging an old battery pack to hook up to see if for some reason one of the batteries in the new pack (2 months old) has gone bad. Though they all check out fine at around 13.6V after full charge and all are at 12.5V when the bike starts to die.....

The new pack is internally wired with 10gauge wire, though the existing computer plug and wire still go to the controller from battery pack.

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Here is the link to my other more detailed post.

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/8125-xb600-help-bike-dying-after-only-10-miles

Oh yeah.... when I replaced the fuse holder I did so with a 30Amp fuse... perhaps this allowed the batteries to ruin the controller?
I just dont know if the initial melting caused the problem or if the 30A fuse did.

ALSO, I dont recall if this happened before or afterwards, but the bike was sitting in a strong rain storm for a good 45 minutes!!!

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

Spaceangel
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Battery voltage isn't supposed to drop that much that fast. Load test each and every battery with a 10 amp load for a few seconds at least and no more than 50 amps.
Second most of the controller from China are programmed for MAX voltage and Min voltage. My 48 volt scooter worked for two years on 60 volts and finally gave up the ghost. I installed a Shenzen Brushless Controller programmed for Max 72 volt volts and Min 24 volts at 50 Amperes. My battery voltage hangs around 55 to 64 volts most of the time at cruising speed. I can get my battery pack down to 45 under max throttle for a few seconds and rises back up to near 60 volts again.
One unique thing that my old controller did before it blew was not go till I turned on head lights. Border line OVP, but a slight load allowed it to move forward again. Then of course it blew smoke.
Try taking apart your brushless controller and look for damage.
Rusty

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sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Try taking apart your brushless controller and look for damage.
Rusty

I did take it apart and I can not find any noticeable damage. There seems to be some light brown spots but nothing is completely blown that I can see. The part that I dont understand is why it seems perfectly fine with 64+ volts. Since it actually DOES work at rides fine at a higher voltage can I assume that the motor is perfectly fine and somehow the controller is cutting it off for some reason???? Perhaps the controller is somehow pulling too much current from the batteries or something like that?

Battery voltage isn't supposed to drop that much that fast. Load test each and every battery with a 10 amp load for a few seconds at least and no more than 50 amps.

How do I load test each battery to make sure they can still supply the controller properly???

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

Spaceangel
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Do you have an ohm meter? a DMM A DVM? If it doesn't look blown then check the MOSFET's and usually the center is the gate and the two outer terminals are the source and drain. My caps were blown but I didn't see that at first. But my xtr were shorted. Alpha usually uses double sided sticky tape to hold in batteries so it is hard to get them out. One of my Alpha products batteries was testing OK some what till I used a 20 amp load and it quickly reversed. But seemed to charge OK till it went open. I'd put my money on battery and or controller for a double problem. If the controller went short it could burn a winding out in the motor. It is real easy to put an ammeter in the circuit and watch current and you really don't need to use 10 AWG wire for a few minutes. BTW is the kick stand down? Brake switch acting funny? So many things can emulate a bad controller. I am having to diagnose my bad XM-3100 but I don't have a garage and don't need any more bikes in my living room. A VX-1 is all I can have there. Also we are having temps in the low teens and my range is 1/4 to maybe 1/2 at best using any of my scooters. My frozen cold XM-3000 did 8 miles and way into the red zone and even the big Vectrix did almost as bad with what ever battery pack it has. Probably NiMH. That is why I keep the VX-1 in my house for batteries on that bike is rather expensive to replace but eXtreme scooter batteries can be got for a price that is palatable.
If all else fails go back to 48 volts and see WATT happens?
Order a Shenzhen controller as a back up speed controller.
Rusty

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sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

As far as the kickstand etc. goes, I have checked the brake switches, I dont think there is one on the kickstand but I am almost sure thats not the problem.

These are brand new (2 months old) batteries. It is only around 50 here so its not that cold. I just charged the whole pack to 68V and took it out with the voltmeter hooked up to it. For 4 miles all was good, on heavy acceleration voltage would drop from 67 to around 62 volts, a normal drop. All was fine till my stopped voltage was about 62V, then, on acceleration the voltage would drop down to 48V, not normal.... As I road more while testing, the drop on acceleration got larger. If I would VERY slowly get up to speed it seemed able to hold the speed fine.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/72V-1500W-Brushless-Speed-Controller-for-Electric-Bikes_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a5f6c1b7QQitemZ230417678775QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/72V-1500W-brushless-controller-for-E-bike-scooter_W0QQitemZ260478648914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca5bcc252

Is there really a difference between these controllers?

The only thing on the controller is, around the + battery lead, on the circuit board it looks a little corroded. I took the hub motor apart and did not see any winding problem, though I could not get the cover off the side with the sensor board. All the other wiring looks good.

I have no problem ordering and installing another controller, I just dont want to order one, wait a week or 2, then have that not fix the problem.

After the bike died tonight, standing Voltage was about 63V (it rose back up 1-2 volts after sitting for a few minutes), took the pack apart and each battery measured about 12.75V.

What could make it work fine until it hits a given voltage then act up like that?
I mean until it hits a given voltage it runs fine, the voltage only drops about 5V on hard acceleration. Then all of a sudden, it hits the magic voltage # and it drops 15-20 volts on the same acceleration.

If it is the motor would u suggest getting one from xtreme or going with a different one? As far as the controller goes, if it needs a new one I would probably go with an Ecrazyman or that other one listed. I just want to be able to use it at 60V if I dont want to up it to 72V.

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

I do have a multimeter, but its been a long time since I used one to measure current. do I need to put it in line with the battery pack or can I just attach 1 end then the other one a little farther down the line? Also, to measure the current going to the motor out of the controller which wire/wires would I use? Is there a way to connect the meter to the phase wires of the motor and spin it while measuring the voltage to see if a winding is out?

I just really need to get this figured out ASAP and would like to avoid spending $300 on a new motor and controller, but if that is what it takes I am fine with that.

Can anyone see why a new motor and controller would NOT fix mostly any problem this could be???????

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

e-doggies
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Can anyone see why a new motor and controller would NOT fix mostly any problem this could be???????

Yes! If it's a battery problem, a new motor and controller won't help.

I'm not convinced we should completely eliminate your batteries just yet.

I'd suggest that you charge each battery separately (again) with a good 12V charger at an amp rate of 2, 4, (or 6 if you have a 20Ah battery). .1C to .3C, no higher. Load test each battery by connecting "something" that will draw about the same as your motor under full throttle acceleration. Let's just say that is 20 Amps. So, you need to draw about 240 Watts for about 10 seconds and measure the voltage throughout the test. Record the voltage of each battery at the end of the test and repeat the test on all batteries. If you perform the test exactly the same on each battery, you should be able to use the test data to make comparisons. Might be interesting to discharge each battery to the "magic number" and do another load test. If it drops 15-20V on the bench, just like it did connected to the controller, would that not eliminate the controller as the cause?

But if it has normal drop at 67V on the bench, then the controller/motor must be pulling more amps than normal once they reach a certain voltage range.

I'm concerned about the motor wires getting hot and needing to be replaced. You don't remember if all this started AFTER the rainstorm? Rain in the fuse holder could have caused that original problem, too.

To use the ammeter in a DMM, you need to connect it in series with the entire load. Most DMM's can handle only up to 10A. If you connect it between your controller and your motor, it will fail when the motor current exceeds 10A.

I must defer to the brushless experts for comments on your phase wire question.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

I do have a 12V charger with 2,4, or 6 Amp charge rate. My batteries are 12V 22ah and are about 2 months old.

HMMmmmmm, the problem is to find something that i KNOW will draw 20 Amps..... Any suggestions???? as I am willing to try anything. Perhaps getting some kind of 12V 20A halogen driving light from Walmart???? If I do something like that, would it not be best to monitor the voltage for longer than 10 seconds?

I DO however have an old battery pack. I never had a problem with it other than a limited range (they are only 12ah batteries.) I hooked it up after being fully charged... The bike will NOT run with a 48V pack at all!!! Does this not remove batteries as the cause? The thing that concerns me is the stock battery meter reading below High with a pack at 63V. Then again, it doesnt drop until a load is put on the motor. I could probably run the bike on the center stand until the pack was normally depleted. If it is the batteries, hopefully they are still under warranty.

I AM sure that the rain storm happened AFTER the fuse holder and phase wires shorted out. I thought the bike died because of the blown fuse and holder but perhaps more damage was done.... If the batteries were bad, would they return to a normal voltage after the load was removed from them?

I guess I will go find some kind of 12V 20A item at Walmart to make sure its not the batteries first. What would anyone suggest next? The motor or the Controller? If I am going to do 1 or the other I will probably try to find a controller and motor that will be good up to a 72V pack.... might as well if I am going to spend the money anyways.

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

e-doggies
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

To discharge batteries, I use an inverter. I made an extension cord with a male plug that connects to the inverter, and on the other end it goes into a square work-box. One side is a rotary dimmer switch, the other side is a double female outlet. I can plug 110V loads into the outlet and control the amp flow with the rotary dimmer. High wattage appliances, like a clothes iron, would be a good load that you could easily adjust with the dimmer switch. Needs an ammeter, though. You could also just plug some lamps into the inverter without the variable switch. Four, 60W bulbs and a way to switch them all on and off at the same time is all you need (assuming you already have an inverter).

Your old battery pack was only 48V, right? So, isn't it below the LVC for your 60V controller? 52.5V?

A "bad" battery may show a perfectly acceptable voltage at rest, but sag dramatically when under load, but then return to a higher voltage when the load is removed. That's why evaluating a battery based on just it's resting voltage doesn't give you the whole story. A battery like that will discharge quickly and will show "FUL" within minutes of hooking up to the charger.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

It is a 48V controller, the stock one for an xb600. Just about everyone and their brother has taken this bike to 60V with very few problems. Since it is a stock 48V controller I can only assume the LVC is more around 42-43V. I am going to go to the auto parts store and get some kind of driving lights that take 10 or 20 Amps at 12V or some combo of that. Am I wrong in thinking that this should work for load testing the batteries? I dont have an ammeter, the multimeter I have is a cheapo. If what you say is the case... perhaps ONE or TWO of the batteries are bad and sagging under heavy load... And with a full charge on the others it can compensate for the bad 1-2 batteries until they discharge to a certain point, then they can no longer keep up????

That actually would make sense.... since I dont think that it should drain 7 volts so quickly.... IE going from the full 68V pack down to 61V after only 10 minutes and 5 miles. that would essentially make it a 10 mile total distance on 1 full charge... That is about 10 miles less than I am used to getting here.

Off to get the driving lights and test those batteries and HOPE 1-2 are bad and still under warranty, that would be a nice change of pace for my luck lately :)

PS. after looking at the pack wiring, a few of the batteries wires look odd... They are a copper strand color to start with, a few of the batteries wires are looking more like silver, possibly showing signs of wear due to the odd load a bad battery would show??

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

A "bad" battery may show a perfectly acceptable voltage at rest, but sag dramatically when under load, but then return to a higher voltage when the load is removed. That's why evaluating a battery based on just it's resting voltage doesn't give you the whole story. A battery like that will discharge quickly and will show "FUL" within minutes of hooking up to the charger.

AAHHHHH HAAAAAAA !!!!!!!
Come to think of it, after the bike dies it DOES take only a small amount of time for the charger to show "Full". Whether I use my 60V charger for the pack or the 12V charger for each one.....

The only thing that worries me is that it doesn't work at all with the old 48V battery pack. Perhaps i DO have a double problem.... 1-2 bad batteries and they took out something in the controller as well.....

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

e-doggies
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Here's a discharge curve for an old 12V 10Ah SLA that I plotted months ago. Data points were collected manually every 30 minutes. Voltage drops-off-a-cliff at about 2.5 hours discharging at only 2.5Amps. Still, that's 6.25 Ah from a 10Ah worn-out battery.

BatteryDischargeCurve.JPG

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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

My bad. I thought you were using a 60V controller.

So, you have the stock 48V controller that you did the shunt mod and then removed it? It will still run on 68V but not on 48V? Are you certain you are getting 48V all the way into the controller? Loose wiring, bad connections, etc. I agree, that does not sound like a battery issue.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

My bad. I thought you were using a 60V controller.

So, you have the stock 48V controller that you did the shunt mod and then removed it? It will still run on 68V but not on 48V? Are you certain you are getting 48V all the way into the controller? Loose wiring, bad connections, etc. I agree, that does not sound like a battery issue.

I have my voltmeter hooked up directly to the input + and - of the controller and monitored the voltage while actually riding the bike. yes I had done the shunt mod to my stock 48V controller and added a 5th battery to goto 60V. All was fine. Now the bike absolutely will not work with less than 62V provided to it. I have since removed the shunt in the controller, this way I use up the useable voltage in the pack a lot slower thus getting about 5-6 miles of usefulness out of it.

I would not be so worried if it just didnt work or the motor would not spin etc. The iradic (sp) performance of the bike is what is stumping me since I am normally very good with electronics and electrical devices.

I bought 2 driving lights which are 55Watts each, hooking both up with a toggle switch should draw just a tiny bit over 9 amps. I will charge each battery fully then hook up to each one and monitor the voltage for about 2 hours or so. That should pretty much exhaust the 22ah battery.
Please tell me if this method of testing sounds like it will work ok....

If they all check out I guess it HAS to be some combo of the controller/motor.... does the fact it only works with 62V+ mean that the motor needs extra voltage to work due to resistance from some bad wiring/hall sensor/magnet/ etc.??? Or does that mean the controller is doing something wrong and somehow trying to drain the batteries too much after a certain amount is registered across a circuit????

ALSO..... the fact that the stock battery meter shows less than a High charge, that means IT TOO is seeing less than 48V at the time so SOMETHING HAS to be draining the pack excessively!!! But that brings up the question again....... Why does the voltage under a load not drop more than 5 volts until the pack is under 62V???? Then it drop 15-20V under load..... VERY PERPLEXING!!!!

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

hguido1
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Sixpax2k9, If your batteries are in fact bad are they under warrenty since they are two months old? You might see if they will replace them. I would order the ecrazyman controller if you need to instead of the other. I know it works on our bikes as I have it on mine and it works great at 72v. You can also email ecrazyman and he can add features to it before you order. Like regen braking and the ability to hook it up to a PC so you can change controller setting yourself.

If you visit endless-sphere.com he has a thread their with alot of information on his controller. If the batteries are bad they probably shorted when the wires did and you now have some bad cells and I suspect you are hitting the LVC of the controller when they drain down. Causing the problems you are experiencing.

You could attach your charger to the charger plug on the bike and run the bike on center kickstand and see if you experience any problems. That would give you a solid 67v and if it runs correctly that would take away thoughts of a bad controller or motor. I hope this helps.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

You could attach your charger to the charger plug on the bike and run the bike on center kickstand and see if you experience any problems. That would give you a solid 67v and if it runs correctly that would take away thoughts of a bad controller or motor. I hope this helps.

I am not sure that is the case here though. It might be, I plan to test each and every battery tonight and/or tomorrow. I just find it hard to believe that the 20A fuse melted and so did the motor wiring and only the batteries were damaged???? If I find 1 or 2 bad batteries I should be able to replace them with a good one and test it out... wish me luck..... I guess that would be the best, easiest, and cheapest fix I could have....

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

hguido1
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Sixpax, What I meant to type earlier was hook your stock charger up to the bike and run it. It only supplies around 56 volts. If it runs at that voltage with just your 4 batteries hooked up then wouldn't that prove the motor and controller are ok?

I would think it would prove something is wrong with the batteries themselves since it would be getting it's voltage and current from the wall at that point.

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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Sixpax, What I meant to type earlier was hook your stock charger up to the bike and run it. It only supplies around 56 volts. If it runs at that voltage with just your 4 batteries hooked up then wouldn't that prove the motor and controller are ok?

I would think it would prove something is wrong with the batteries themselves since it would be getting it's voltage and current from the wall at that point.

Actually, that makes a good point... however, it should probably be done with NO batteries in it at all. That way it is getting pure 55V or so from the charger. Dont know if the 1.5 amps of the charger can keep up though, so I may need a battery pack in it.

Here are my battery tests... Used a set of 55Watt driving lights hooked up to each battery a 12V 110Watt setup drains 9.167 amps.

Battery 1

Time Volts Change Total time
7:52 13.20

7:57 12.65 .55 :05
8:06 12.51 .14 :09 .14
8:10 12.40 .11 :13 .25
8:15 12.22 .18 :18 .43
8:20 11.71 .51 :23 .94
8:25 9.50 2.21 :28 3.15
8:30 8.45 1.05 :33 4.20
8:35 7.32 1.13 :38 5.33

Battery 2

Time Volts Change TTime TDrop
8:48 13.36

8:53 12.63 .73 :05
8:58 12.56 .07 :10 .07
9:03 12.46 .10 :15 .17
9:08 12.32 .14 :20 .31
9:13 10.02 2.30 :25 2.61
9:18 7.35 2.67 :30 5.28
9:23 5.80 1.55 :35 6.83
9:28 4.86 0.94 :40 7.77

Battery 3

Time Volts Change TTime TDrop
9:38 13.34

9:43 12.64 .70 :05
9:48 12.60 .04 :10 .04
9:53 12.52 .08 :15 .12
9:58 12.40 .08 :20 .20
10:03 12.26 .14 :25 .34
10:08 11.62 .64 :30 .98
10:13 10.62 1.00 :35 1.98
10:18 9.98 .64 :40 2.62
10:23 9.65 .33 :45 2.95
10:28 9.30 .35 :50 3.30
10:33 9.00 .30 :55 3.60
10:38 8.80 .20 :60 3.80
10:43 8.45 .35 :65 4.15

Battery 4

Time Volts Change TTime TDrop
10:48 13.32

10:53 12.62 .70 :05
10:58 12.57 .05 :10 .05
11:03 12.47 .10 :15 .15
11:08 12.01 .46 :20 .61
11:13 10.12 1.89 :25 2.50
11:18 7.74 2.36 :30 4.86
11:23 6.77 .97 :35 5.83
11:28 6.39 .38 :40 6.21
11:33 6.22 .17 :45 6.38

Battery 5

Time Volts Change TTime TDrop
11:35 13.27

11:40 12.58 .69 :05
11:45 12.54 .04 :10 .04
11:50 12.45 .09 :15 .13
11:55 12.28 .17 :20 .30
12:00 8.35 3.93 :25 4.27
12:05 4.35 4.00 :30 8.27

The only one that seems normal is Battery #3... ALL the others dropped of Considerably after only 25 minutes with a 9.167Amp load on them. That would roughly equate to the 15 minutes or so that I get from the bike before it dies.

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Just to make sure I have wired ALL the batteries in parallel and am charging them with a 12V charger at only 4 Amps overnight. I figure charging them so slowly will give them the best possible charge. Then tomorrow I will RE-test the ones that performed poorly first then the one good one last. Going to go hook up my OLD 48V pack and charger and see what happens......

Well, with the old worn out pack and the stock 48V charger it runs fine on the kickstand with no load. Charging the old battery pack overnight as well. Will try riding the bike with the old pack tomorrow after its fully charged. If that works I will try the other batteries if they check out ok after the slow charge I am giving them tonight. I bought them from BAtteryplex.com on Sept. 9th and they say they warranty them from manufacture defects for 1 year. Not sure if bad discharge is considered a defect or not, though at least 1 of the batteries seems to be fine. Would this not show that it was nothing I did to them, just a bad set of batteries???? The 1 good battery was in the middle of the pack too, I would of thought that 1 or 2 at the tail end would be the best if it was due to too much discharge or something else. Perhaps my "shunt" was too short and allowed too much current draw from the batteries????

Hopefully if the batteries are bad they will replace them for me :) As it is looking a LOT like that is the case here....

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

You might want to continue charging in parallel. Series chargers are battery-killers, in my opinion.

I've been parallel charging the same set of "salvaged" 10Ah SLA's for over a year. So far, they have lasted 4 times longer than the new sets I maintained faithfully with the stock 36V charger.

Did you ever determine the cause of the short/melting and your need to replace the fuse/holder and motor wires?

And there's still the mystery of the less-than-full (@68V) stock battery gauge?

Do your batteries have date codes?

Nice job on the testing!!! Pretty tedious? Four hours of having the timer ding every 5 minutes... I've had relaxing evenings like that.

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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

You might want to continue charging in parallel. Series chargers are battery-killers, in my opinion.

I've been parallel charging the same set of "salvaged" 10Ah SLA's for over a year. So far, they have lasted 4 times longer than the new sets I maintained faithfully with the stock 36V charger.

Did you ever determine the cause of the short/melting and your need to replace the fuse/holder and motor wires?

And there's still the mystery of the less-than-full (@68V) stock battery gauge?

I can only guess that the bad batteries caused the short or melting, probably with 1 or more of them "reversing". If charging this way fixes the problem, I will be ordering Anderson Powerpoles ASAP!!!!! The less-than-full @68V stock battery gauge.... well that was ONLY when the resting voltage showed 62-63V then I put a load on it. At rest the gauge would show FULL, only when I tried to accelerate would it drop like a rock. If those batteries were dropping 5 volts under only a 9 amp load after 20 minutes, imagine what they would do under a 30 amp load....... Only dropping 3 volts per BAD battery would be 4 of the 5 making it a 12V drop at only a 9.167 amp load. Under hard acceleration/uphill the bike can draw about 35 amps, that is 7 amps per battery. You try the math....

All 5 batteries in parallel charging at 6 amps (I upped it to 6 from 4) after about 2 hours is still showing only 25% charge on my Schumacher charger.... Each one is at 13.28 Volts. I think my stock 48V charger has a bad cuttoff voltage... It was showing 57.5V and was still charging so I shut that one off for the night for safety reasons.

Wish me luck tomorrow :)

Its time for bed now!!!!!

PS. dont know about the date codes.... They have the month//year scratch thingy on them, other than that I dont know.
As far as the testing... yeah, it was fun, but I sat watching TV, surfing online, drinking beer, smoking cigs, while doing it
so it wasn't all that bad.....

WOOOO HOOOOOOO!!! Charger is showing 50% charged now :) should easily be done by the time I wake up :)

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

OK, the old pack actually worked. It doesnt hold a charge worth a damn, but after charging it to a voltage of 54V I hooked it up and off I went on the bike. The gauge was showing under H when the pack got to around 51V but unless i am mistaken that is normal as the Low would probably be 42-43V and the High should be around 54V. I have the whole battery cover etc. off the bike and it looks like I may be able to get 5-6 batteries in between the frame there. I will be trying that and if they fit I will be cutting out some plastic on the bottom cover. If it works I will take some pics showing my progress.

I am not sure if some of my new batteries are "bad" or not. Charged them all in parallel last night at 4amps to a voltage of 14.6, now I will be putting them in the bike and testing my performance and range. If it is still not to desired performance I will recharge them and retest them and ask the place I got them from if they will replace them.

Wish me luck again!!!!!!

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

e-doggies
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Most 12V chargers have a Constant Current phase until the voltage reaches about 14.8V, then switches to Constant Voltage amd the amps decrease until it is full.

57.5V does not seem out of line for series-charging 4 batteries. Good that you shut it down, though. I'd re-connect and monitor it closely with your voltmeter (and another beer).

6 amps into your 110Ah pack (@12V) is only .055C. You could safely charge at .1C with a 10Amp charger. I charge anywhere from .1C to .3C. So, something capable of up to 30 amps would not be too big.

The month/year scratch thing sounds like the warranty. Look closely at the case, all sides, bottom, everywhere, for a series of letters or numbers. Some of mine had a month and year plainly displayed, but they can be hard to spot. If you can't find the code, you won't have any idea how long they may have been shelved prior to September.

Looking forward to your re-test results.

Good Luck!

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

OK again.... With the new pack, fully charged I got about 7 miles from it, more than I ever did. However, once the pack got down to 62-63V once again, it started to sag out. That equates to about 12.6V per battery, and as my testing showed, 4 of the 5 batteries sagged SEVERELY once they hit ~12.6V. Therefor I am forced to conclude that 4 of the 5 batteries are indeed "bad" and sagging badly once they hit ~12.6V. I therefor am going to email and/or call Batteryplex and request an exchange for new ones. I would think that the batteries performing like this is NOT normal, nor something I did to them. Since they are less than 4 months old I am hoping they will honor the warranty!!!!

To any of you xb600 owners out there..... During this time I have learned and discovered at lot of ideas for the bike. I am sure I can fit 5-6 batteries under the floor of the bike, if you EVER take off the rear wheel there are certain things you should do to avoid the "spin out" of the rear axle, and removing the chain will give you 1-2mph better speeds. Actually, I dont know if it was just removing the chain, or the cleaning and re-greasing of the axle bearings that improved the speed. Afterwords, on streets I would normally only hit 22-23mph I was getting 24-25mph easily on bad batteries.

Since the stock battery gauge only reads below High when it is under load, that is the other reason I feel everything else is fine and it is the bad batteries sagging 5V per battery under load once they hit 12.6V. That would explain the drop from 63V down to 43V under load, thus hitting the LVC of the controller.

Thanks to everyone who helped out here!!!! I will be starting another thread to document the new mods and suggestions I have found for the XB600, while I will also post updates here regarding the dealings with Batteryplex and the warranty. If they replace them I would recommend them as their prices are very good. I got 5 12V 22ah batteries shipped WITH TAX (as I live in FL and that is where they are) for about $250. That is the price Xtreme charges for a 4 x 12V 20ah pack!!!! If I can get all 5 batteries to perform like the 1 good one I have I am sure I will be very pleased!!!

Until the updates.... PEACE OUT .... HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

57.5V does not seem out of line for series-charging 4 batteries. Good that you shut it down, though. I'd re-connect and monitor it closely with your voltmeter (and another beer).

6 amps into your 110Ah pack (@12V) is only .055C. You could safely charge at .1C with a 10Amp charger. I charge anywhere from .1C to .3C. So, something capable of up to 30 amps would not be too big.

I shut it down because under no load the chargers output is erradic going from 53V up to 58V, just dont trust it.

I forget... what is the equation to calculate C ??? I would prolly be fine using my existing 12V charger at 6amps charging in parallel going forward. Once I get a set of batteries i KNOW are good, I will be setting up the series/parallel deal with Anderson Powerpoles.

Also, I DID find some numbers that were heat indented on the batteries.... the numbers are like this... 1207 08. So I am assuming they all came from a batch made Dec. 07 2008.

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

e-doggies
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

C is simply the capacity of the battery in Amp hours. 1C for your 22Ah battery is 22 Amps. .2C is 4.4 Amps, 3C is 66 Amps, and so on.

Looks like your batteries were already 9 months old when you bought them. Do they mention anything on their website about freshness?

sixpax2k9
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

No but they do go on and on about quality and service. Its a little too late to get ahold of them now... guess I will have to wait for Monday most likely, as I doubt they are open tomorrow or on the weekend...

Dave ; Tennessee
XB-600.

JamesS
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Re: Someone please help!!!! xb600!!

Glad you seem to be on your way to solving your problem. Perhaps someone that went to school for electrical engineering that understands how and why electronics work will pop in and shed some light for you. Re-reading your DVM manual will also help you use it for future troubleshooting.

And by the way, my Tempest TD-22 batteries are still holding up well. Their site provides data sheets for charge and discharge specs, as well as much other info on batteries. You can't find any real info for the UB12220. I can't say they are lower quality, but if they where of any quality, I think they would advertise it. or have spec sheets

Best of luck. And Happy New Year!

Happy scooting,
JamesS

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