new tickets on my xb700
Submitted by Jerseygirl on Mon, 12/27/2010 - 17:33
Hey if anyone can shed some light on NJ laws concerning the Electric/E-bike Laws I would greatly appreciate it----I got stopped in August of 2010 and was issued a ticket for no registration---brought my paperwork and the Judge dismissed it---got stopped again by the same cop and he issued me 3 tickets--no reg--no ins--no DL---what are my options now?? and maybe I come under the mobility law--as I have been disabled since 1994---Can anyone help me or refer me to a loophole in NJ concerning the operation of an Electric Bike/E-bike??? The cop told me I am not allowed to operate on any public roadway only on private property......what do I do now????
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Re: sangesf
Libel... Yeah, go for it! I DARE YOU... I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU!!!
Anything said on here is MY OPINION... Nothing says you have to agree or disagree with it.
LOL..... Anyways....
There are usually three factions of people when dealing with motor vehicle laws and bicycles with motors (gas or electric) on them...
1.) Those who have a licenses and don't care whether it requires one or not.
2.) Those who have licenses and say, most motored bicycles should require a license.
3.) Those who don't have licenses and think they shouldn't need one.
Oh and there is another/last "faction" are the ones that are looking to sell them... And they'll ALWAYS say a license isn't needed.
That's the continuing argument...
Also note that the federal law concerning electric bikes has NO EFFECT on each state's regulations for any VEHICLE for use on their perspective roads.
i.e. The state has the right to restrict any vehicle from use on their roads, as they see fit.
Now that doesn't mean that some states don't basically copy the federal CPSC definition of an electric bicycle and say they're treated as regular pedal bicycles in their vehicle codes. Some do. Some don't. NJ is one of those that didn't. Florida is one that did.
There as some states that allow a motored bicycle to go 30, are allowed to go on interstates, etc, etc.
Re: new tickets on my xb700
Dear Sangesf------why are you so nasty to me----where the heck do you get off being so judgmental with this post---"You are surely not comparing Rosa Parks/civil rights issues with an ex addict (who been to jail) who got a DUI, drove drunk, had an accident hurt her back, and is trying to skirt around NJ's current moped law by riding an electric bike (That LOOKS AND RIDES like a scooter)?!?!?"
1) I was hit by an off duty cop in 1994 which disabled me permanently. I was coming home from work---SOBER!!!
2) I am not an ex-addict who got a DUI ---I did get a DUI over 5 years ago and it was an intent as I wasn't even driving the car but they said I intended to drive it.
3) I never intended to "skirt" around the law---I was only trying to find a more economical form of transportation as I did restore my license but was unable to afford the surcharges and my license was suspended b/c I could not afford to pay them as I was a single mother who wasn't getting child support. Food and clothes and a roof over our heads was more important.
You do not know me and you really are rude to act like you do.......I have been nothing but nice and polite to you and you have attacked me verbally and it's not very nice. At least I am trying to make a difference and trying to change the laws. But while I try, all you can do is bash me and my cause. Didn't your parents ever teach you 'if you don't have nothing nice to say---don't say nothing at all'???
Below is the correspondence I received and I have been on the phone with the Governor himself....what more do you want from me---I am trying to make a difference and all you can do is insult me??
(((The Honorable Senator Van Drew:
I have been speaking with Todd from your office and he indicated that you wanted to know if the City of Ocean City has the authority to require (jerseygirl)to register her electric bicycle with the Motor Vehicle Commission. I checked with the Attorney General's office and was told that the City does not have the authority to require jerseygirl to register her electric bicycle with the Motor Vehicle Commission but they do have the authority to require jerseygirl to come to the MVC for a determination as to whether the electric bicycle can be registered.)))
I am very glad to say they are going to introduce a bill in the next month or so thanks to me and until it gets passed they have gotten off my back and not given me any more tickets or hassle.....I am assured by Van Drew himself, that the director of MVC is helping with the wording of the bill to CHANGE TITLE 39 AND AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THAT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION......AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK ME ABOUT MY PERSONAL LIFE EXPERIENCES I WOULD GLADLY DO THAT IN PRIVATE AND APPRECIATE YOU NOT TO AIR MY DIRTY LAUNDRY, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BLOG AT ALL.....THAT WAS A CHEAP SHOT DUDE....THX FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!
Re: new tickets on my xb700
Get a mobility scooter, and you won't ever need to worry... (Don't say it's not comfortable, that's ridiculous)
But you won't..
You know it, I know it.
Watch.. You'll see..
Bet you that they make it that you HAVE to register an electric bicycle as a moped in NJ. (and require a license).
(Trust me, NJ is the kind of state where ONLY if they can get more revenue (re: monies from registration of a vehicle, in this instance) will they pass any kind of law..)
What will you do then?
And yea, it was a bit harsh (I exaggerated a bit, but you understand what I was analogizing...,) but honestly, do you really think your situation is anywhere NEAR the same kind of situation as the Rosa Parks/civil rights issue?
Let's be realistic for a moment...
The situations are not even in the same ballpark.
You're not the only one in this country that's fallen on hard times.
I just don't see why you just don't get a mobility scooter and be done with it...
You'll probably have to after my predictions anyways...
P.S. You can have the surcharges spread out over a few years, so that it's not that expensive.
Re: new tickets on my xb700
Get a mobility scooter, and you won't ever need to worry... (Don't say it's not comfortable, that's ridiculous)
But you won't..
You know it, I know it.
Watch.. You'll see..
Bet you that they make it that you HAVE to register an electric bicycle as a moped in NJ. (and require a license).
(Trust me, NJ is the kind of state where ONLY if they can get more revenue (re: monies from registration of a vehicle, in this instance) will they pass any kind of law..)
What will you do then?
And yea, it was a bit harsh (I exaggerated a bit, but you understand what I was analogizing...,) but honestly, do you really think your situation is anywhere NEAR the same kind of situation as the Rosa Parks/civil rights issue?
Let's be realistic for a moment...
The situations are not even in the same ballpark.
You're not the only one in this country that's fallen on hard times.
I just don't see why you just don't get a mobility scooter and be done with it...
You'll probably have to after my predictions anyways...
P.S. You can have the surcharges spread out over a few years, so that it's not that expensive.
Re: new tickets on my xb700
Sangesf---- YOU SAID--"Get a mobility scooter, and you won't ever need to worry... (Don't say it's not comfortable, that's ridiculous)
But you won't.. You know it, I know it."
THE REASON I OPTED FOR THE XB-700 WAS SO THAT I COULD TAKE MY SON TO SPORTS AND CARRY AT LEAST 3 BIG BAGS OF GROCERIES ON THE BIKE---ONE HANGING FROM THE SISSY BAR IN BACK AND 2 ON THE DECK.
YOU SAID---"Watch.. You'll see....Bet you that they make it that you HAVE to register an electric bicycle as a moped in NJ. (and require a license). (Trust me, NJ is the kind of state where ONLY if they can get more revenue (re: monies from registration of a vehicle, in this instance) will they pass any kind of law......What will you do then?"
I AM ASSURED THAT THE MVC IS WANTING NOT TO CONFORM WITH TITLE 39--JUST THE OPPOSITE---THEIR STAND IS TO DEFINE THE ELECTRIC BIKE BASED ON THE SAME DEFINITIONS AS HR-727 AND PL 107-319.....BUT IF THEY DO CHANGE IT TO REQUIRE A LICENSE--THEN I WILL BE FORCED TO PAY MY SURCHARGES OR PURCHASE A DIFFERENT E-BIKE THAT WON'T CARRY MY GROCERIES OR MY SON.
YOU SAID---"but honestly, do you really think your situation is anywhere NEAR the same kind of situation as the Rosa Parks/civil rights issue?"
GOD NO, NOT IN THAT CAPACITY, EXCEPT THAT IF PEOPLE DON'T CHALLENGE THE LAWS, THEN THEY WILL NEVER GET CHANGED!
YOU SAID---"I just don't see why you just don't get a mobility scooter and be done with it...
You'll probably have to after my predictions anyways.... P.S. You can have the surcharges spread out over a few years, so that it's not that expensive."
I GAVE YOU THE REASONS WHY I OPTED FOR THE XB-700 ABOVE BUT ALSO WANTED YOU KNOW THAT NOT EVERYONE GETS THOSE MOBILITY SCOOTERS FOR FREE....MY FATHER PAID OVER 6,000.00 DOLLARS FOR HIS AND THAT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO.....THEY ALL AREN'T CHEAP AND THANKS TO THE GREAT STATE OF NJ--THEY CHARGE INTEREST ON THE SURCHARGES AND BELIEVE MINE SPREAD OUT OVER A FEW YEARS WITH MY INTEREST WOULD BE ALMOST 300.00 DOLLARS A MONTH....THAT'S MY FOOD BILL EASY!! BELIEVE ME I TRIED TO GET A SMALLER PAYMENT----IMPOSSIBLE!!
SO COULD YOU TRY TO BE A BIT MORE POSITIVE AND NOT SO NEGATIVE?? I REALIZE THIS MAY NOT GO THE WAY MANY OF US HOPE----BUT NOTHING VENTURED--NOTHING GAINED--RIGHT?? I DO HAVE A LOT OF SUPPORTERS DOWN THIS WAY AND HAVE BEEN GETTING VERY POSITIVE FEEDBACK. I FEEL I AM NOT ONLY SPEAKING FOR MYSELF BUT OTHERS AS WELL AND HAVE BEEN COMMENDED TO KEEP DOING WHAT I'M DOING...SO THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA HAVE TO DO AND HOPE FOR THE BEST..... :-)
Re: new tickets on my xb700
sangesf - I don't understand why your comments are so hostile. Whether a person has had a dwi or not, this is purely a discussion of alternative vehicles and a person's history has no impact on the basic issues
Mobility scooters are slow and do not maneuver well and are mostly for use on sidewalks. I would feel endangered if I had to use these in the street as you often have to in my area. Where I live it would be very difficult to use one of these to go 3 miles to the grocery store due to lack of sidewalks and other problems. They are also difficult to use to carry loads, such as multiple bags of groceries.
I looked into these scooters when I developed partial disability and felt they were of very limited use.
I went with adding assist, via a Bionx kit, to my bicycle and that has worked very well. At the time I didn't know it wasn't legal in NJ as the law seemed to imply electric but not engine assist was legal.
Electric scooters like the Xb700 are more stable than my bicycle and better suited to people with more severe disabilities than I have.
It is a terrible shame that NJ doesn't recognize these vehicles. They fill a real niche and I don't think the intent of the original moped laws was to include these. In fact, we should be promoting them as low-impact transportation.
I have also been trying to contact those legislators involved in transportation issues about the need for changing the law but have not personally gotten replies. I may have to show up at my Assemblyman's office with my bicycle and get a police officer to ticket me to get attention. And I don't think Christie would veto the change!
Re: new tickets on my xb700
You guys just don't get it...
Anything like a scooter is considered a motor vehicle...
IF you had an electric bicycle that was pedal assist, then it wouldn't be one..
If you can just turn a throttle and go, that's no longer a bicycle...
Main contention of motor vehicles are that they are SELF-Propelled.
If it can move from a dead stop under it's own power, guess what?
Yep.. Motor vehicle.. License required.
The REASON for the "slow" scooters is for safety... You don't ride them in the street... They are made for people that have a hard time getting around... They are for use on the sidewalks.. You don't want a 15mph scooter on the same sidewalk as pedestrians..
In my area alone, there are 3 people (that I see on a daily basis) that have them and I see them EVERYWHERE.. Up to 10-15 miles away from their houses..
One of them is a gentleman that I see who goes shopping and has many bags of groceries..
One of them is a woman with a daughter who is ALSO handicapped and I see the BOTH of them riding together (each with their own scooter) and they get around just fine.
The last one actually has a decent speed capable one of 10mph....
I see no reason why they wouldn't work for the OP..
And you hit the nail on the head... You called it an electric scooter... If you can't pedal it, then it ain't a bicycle..
(Yes, I know it CAN be pedalled {the XB-700}, but the OP has admitted she can't pedal because of back problems)..
Here's the main issue...
NJ currently, and in the past, says they're not legal for use on roads.. Plain and simple.. Nothing, I or you can say, will change that..
HOWEVER... Only after you get a law passed can anyone say anything about it.
I've seen it way to often..
As an example, here with the people with gas powered bicycles (Basically the same idea as a non pedaled xb700). Just about every single person I've seen on one of those is doing 20mph ON THE SIDEWALK.. Crazy dangerous...
I could see people with these xb700's riding on the sidewalk, because the road is too dangerous..
When something has changed in NJ law, then let me know..
Until then, they are still considered mopeds/motor vehicles...
Here in Florida, UNLESS you have pedal assist on a bicycle, it's a moped because of the whole self-propelled issue, I mentioned above.
Good luck.
You're gonna need it.
P.S. From what Showed before....
"BUT they do have the authority to require jerseygirl to come to the MVC for a determination as to whether the electric bicycle can be registered."...
That means to me, that they have the right to ask you to go to the DMV and see if you can get it registered (as a moped)...
Which means you prolly can't, because it doesn't have a VIN, and since it doesnt, you can't register it, if you can't register it, then you can't use it on the road.
This is the same thing as gas powered bicycles here in Florida..
IF you try to go to the DMV here and register your bicycle as a moped, not only is it not "required", but by FL law, you can NOT legally register one as such...
You know why? Because theyre not allowed on roads without a registration...
Re: new tickets on my xb700
You guys just don't get it...
Anything like a scooter is considered a motor vehicle...
IF you had an electric bicycle that was pedal assist, then it wouldn't be one..
If you can just turn a throttle and go, that's no longer a bicycle...
Main contention of motor vehicles are that they are SELF-Propelled.
If it can move from a dead stop under it's own power, guess what?
Yep.. Motor vehicle.. License required.
The REASON for the "slow" scooters is for safety... You don't ride them in the street... They are made for people that have a hard time getting around... They are for use on the sidewalks.. You don't want a 15mph scooter on the same sidewalk as pedestrians..
In my area alone, there are 3 people (that I see on a daily basis) that have them and I see them EVERYWHERE.. Up to 10-15 miles away from their houses..
One of them is a gentleman that I see who goes shopping and has many bags of groceries..
One of them is a woman with a daughter who is ALSO handicapped and I see the BOTH of them riding together (each with their own scooter) and they get around just fine.
The last one actually has a decent speed capable one of 10mph....
I see no reason why they wouldn't work for the OP..
And you hit the nail on the head... You called it an electric scooter... If you can't pedal it, then it ain't a bicycle..
(Yes, I know it CAN be pedalled {the XB-700}, but the OP has admitted she can't pedal because of back problems)..
Here's the main issue...
NJ currently, and in the past, says they're not legal for use on roads.. Plain and simple.. Nothing, I or you can say, will change that..
HOWEVER... Only after you get a law passed can anyone say anything about it.
I've seen it way to often..
As an example, here with the people with gas powered bicycles (Basically the same idea as a non pedaled xb700). Just about every single person I've seen on one of those is doing 20mph ON THE SIDEWALK.. Crazy dangerous...
I could see people with these xb700's riding on the sidewalk, because the road is too dangerous..
When something has changed in NJ law, then let me know..
Until then, they are still considered mopeds/motor vehicles...
Here in Florida, UNLESS you have pedal assist on a bicycle, it's a moped because of the whole self-propelled issue, I mentioned above.
Good luck.
You're gonna need it.
P.S. From what Showed before....
"BUT they do have the authority to require jerseygirl to come to the MVC for a determination as to whether the electric bicycle can be registered."...
That means to me, that they have the right to ask you to go to the DMV and see if you can get it registered (as a moped)...
Which means you prolly can't, because it doesn't have a VIN, and since it doesnt, you can't register it, if you can't register it, then you can't use it on the road.
This is the same thing as gas powered bicycles here in Florida..
IF you try to go to the DMV here and register your bicycle as a moped, not only is it not "required", but by FL law, you can NOT legally register one as such...
You know why? Because theyre not allowed on roads without a registration...
Re: new tickets on my xb700
You guys just don't get it...
Anything like a scooter is considered a motor vehicle...
IF you had an electric bicycle that was pedal assist, then it wouldn't be one..
If you can just turn a throttle and go, that's no longer a bicycle...
Main contention of motor vehicles are that they are SELF-Propelled.
If it can move from a dead stop under it's own power, guess what?
Yep.. Motor vehicle.. License required.
The REASON for the "slow" scooters is for safety... You don't ride them in the street... They are made for people that have a hard time getting around... They are for use on the sidewalks.. You don't want a 15mph scooter on the same sidewalk as pedestrians..
In my area alone, there are 3 people (that I see on a daily basis) that have them and I see them EVERYWHERE.. Up to 10-15 miles away from their houses..
One of them is a gentleman that I see who goes shopping and has many bags of groceries..
One of them is a woman with a daughter who is ALSO handicapped and I see the BOTH of them riding together (each with their own scooter) and they get around just fine.
The last one actually has a decent speed capable one of 10mph....
I see no reason why they wouldn't work for the OP..
And you hit the nail on the head... You called it an electric scooter... If you can't pedal it, then it ain't a bicycle..
(Yes, I know it CAN be pedalled {the XB-700}, but the OP has admitted she can't pedal because of back problems)..
Here's the main issue...
NJ currently, and in the past, says they're not legal for use on roads.. Plain and simple.. Nothing, I or you can say, will change that..
HOWEVER... Only after you get a law passed can anyone say anything about it.
I've seen it way to often..
As an example, here with the people with gas powered bicycles (Basically the same idea as a non pedaled xb700). Just about every single person I've seen on one of those is doing 20mph ON THE SIDEWALK.. Crazy dangerous...
I could see people with these xb700's riding on the sidewalk, because the road is too dangerous..
When something has changed in NJ law, then let me know..
Until then, they are still considered mopeds/motor vehicles...
Here in Florida, UNLESS you have pedal assist on a bicycle, it's a moped because of the whole self-propelled issue, I mentioned above.
Good luck.
You're gonna need it.
P.S. From what Showed before....
"BUT they do have the authority to require jerseygirl to come to the MVC for a determination as to whether the electric bicycle can be registered."...
That means to me, that they have the right to ask you to go to the DMV and see if you can get it registered (as a moped)...
Which means you prolly can't, because it doesn't have a VIN, and since it doesnt, you can't register it, if you can't register it, then you can't use it on the road.
This is the same thing as gas powered bicycles here in Florida..
IF you try to go to the DMV here and register your bicycle as a moped, not only is it not "required", but by FL law, you can NOT legally register one as such...
You know why? Because theyre not allowed on roads without a registration...
Re: new tickets on my xb700
@--SANGESF-----ya know, are you arguing just for arguments sake?? b/c it seems like it..???
YOU SAID--I could see people with these xb700's riding on the sidewalk, because the road is too dangerous..
1) C'MON YOU ARE JUST GRASPING AT STRAWS HERE----I WOULD NEVER RIDE MY XB-700 ON THE SIDEWALK....I DON'T EVEN FEEL COMFORTABLE RIDING A REGULAR BIKE ON THE SIDEWALK.....LET'S BE REAL NOW.....I DO LIVE IN A SMALL RESORT TOWN AND THE TRAFFIC CAN GET A LITTLE HAIRY IN THE SUMMER BUT IF YOU KNOW YOUR WAY AROUND, YOU TAKE THE LESS TRAVELED....BUT EVEN IF YOU DON'T TAKE THE LESS TRAVELED ROADS ALL SPEED LIMITS ARE 25 IN MY ENTIRE CITY EXCEPT FOR 2 SMALL STREETS (35MPH,) AND BOTH SECTIONS ARE SHORT ---SO NOTHING IN MY TOWN IS EVEN ABOVE 35MPH....AND MOST STREETS ARE EASILY MANEUVERED.....YOU ARE JUST COMING UP WITH ANY REASON TO PROVE A POINT THAT NONE OF ARE DISCUSSING....WE ARE TRYING TO CHANGE TITLE 39 AND WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT LAW IS -----DUH
AND MAYBE THEY HAVE BEEN ALLOWING ME TO RIDE BECAUSE THE LAW IS UNCLEAR AND MOST AGREE IT IS A GREY AREA.....THAT'S WHAT WE ARE STATING AND FIGHTING FOR.....JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY IT'S A SCOOTER YOU AIN'T GOD AND LAST TIME I CHECKED YOU DON'T RULE THE WORLD----OK-----HELLO???
YOU SAID---THEY SAID "BUT they do have the authority to require jerseygirl to come to the MVC for a determination as to whether the electric bicycle can be registered."...
'That means to me, that they have the right to ask you to go to the DMV and see if you can get it registered (as a moped)...
Which means you prolly can't, because it doesn't have a VIN, and since it doesnt, you can't register it, if you can't register it, then you can't use it on the road."
I DID GO TO THE MVC AND THEY TOLD ME I CANNOT REGISTER IT AS THEY CONSIDER IT TO BE A BICYCLE AND THAT THERE ARE NO BANS AGAINST THEM FOR USE ON THE STREET.....BICYCLE RULES APPLY AND I GOT A PAPER SAYING I WAS THERE AND TRIED TO REGISTER IT AND SO FORTH.....AND HAVEN'T BEEN BOTHERED SINCE.....THEY WILL NOT REGISTER IT AS THEY CONSIDER IT TO BE A BICYCLE,,,,,PERIOD
Re: new tickets on my xb700
---Sangesf---
YOUR MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE, IT DOESN'T WORK UNLESS IT'S OPEN!!!
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