Wilderness Energy BD36 running at 48v

Thanks for that.

It was informative. I am about to go to 72 volts on a wilderness energy motor with a new controller. Waiting for it to arrive in the mail.

What kind of bike? What kind of batteries? And I just went up to the WE site. What motor? The most powerful motor they list is the essentially the BD36.

Rob

They should also carry the brushless version. Apparently these motors can handle 72 volts. I'm putting two 36 volt Dewalt packs in series, three times with a switch to move between series connected packs.

So if I read your message correctly, you're using six DeWALT DC9360 36 Volt, 2.4 AH, Lithium Ion Battery Packs @ $169 each So how fast and how far can you go on 7.2AH?

I also own Dewalt power tools so half of the batteries came with the tools. A thousand bucks for many years of bicycling and 45 minute charges is well worth it to me. The price will come down some day and even at this price they will pay for themselves many times over with saved gas and car maintenance. Look at it this way, they cost about the same as a few car payments.

Don't know the answer to your questions yet but I have been using four of these batteries at 36 volts for just less than a year now and they give me far more range than the 8 amp hour lead acid batteries I started out with. I think that is due to the decreased weight and the very flat voltage discharge curves. These batteries stay lively right until the very end when they suddenly poop out. I also sometimes charge them up two or three times a day when I am doing a lot of riding.

By adding two more I will keep the great range but also have the option to go faster when I need to, start from a dead stop and accelerate quickly through dangerous intersections. I may get much more range than before if I don't ride any faster and don't need to accelerate from a dead stop often, as on a long ride on a bike trail.

The lead acid would just get slower and slower as it discharged and deep discharges limited the lead acid life. Not to mention it would take 4-6 hours to recharge them instead of 30-60 minutes.

I have given a great deal of thought to these batteries since you mentioned them. I am curious as to why you're putting them in series pairs on a switch versus three series pairs in parallel. Next, have you used a meter to determine what your amp draw is nominal and peak? The stuff I've read indicates you can damage the batteries if you draw too hard.

I've got a 6.5 mile commute and can bring my bike into my building to charge -- so the long charge time essentially equals my long work day. True my 12ah SLA's are now a couple of years old and don't hum like when they were new. So I'm guessing that with tools at home, you've got a few chargers at home and a few at work. That's nice. And not having to rush to recharge is great. I'm going to have to wait until the price comes down before I can invest that sum. Even the 24V LiOn which I'd use in pairs would run around $600.

I'm interested in what you find out once you get your new rig setup.

Rob

I want to be able to charge them a pair at a time. I don't want to have to put all six on chargers at once. If I discharge all six and then only charge two, I can't put them back in parallel with the other four without diodes in the lines to keep them from back charging. I have four chargers at home and take two with me in a backpack on long trips.

I have talked to guys who have had a cell drop dead and I think it was because they allowed them to get below 2.5 volts. These batteries fall off very rapidly at the end of their charge and if one battery is not well matched it will drop off before the others and go flat. This chart shows you what I mean:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=883612

The batteries can take ungodly discharge rates (70 amps continuous, 120 amps for ten seconds).

Russ

Well, this is interesting. Why does Wilderness Energy advertise it as 36v when it can support 48?

- David Herron, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, http://www.7gen.com/store
- EVT 4000, Charger bike (rebuilt), Vego 600sx (rebuilt), Electrified Electra Townie
- Lectra motorcycle

Wilderness Energy is aiming the kit at a price-point as well (I expect) at a "product liability" point. I understood from some specs that the motor was rated to 96V. But if you've priced alternate controllers, you'll note they get expensive quickly. Either I've been lucky with my controller and/or my capacitors are going to quit one day.

And even if I could figure out how to carry that many batteries, I'm not sure I'd feel safe at whatever speed it would manage. Further, if you check your local laws, you'll find that at some power output a battery-assisted bike classifies as a moped. Suddenly you've entered the world of having to register your vehicle, insure your vehicle, and potentially get a special operators license.

Yeah - those are good points. And ones I make myself at times.

Bicycles generally aren't build for high speed and in California a vehicle with between 20-30 miles/hr speed capability is classified as a moped. But some people I've had this conversation with get rather huffy -- they point out many bicyclists can, unpowered, get to speeds well above 30 miles/hr. Makes you wonder why the rules are set as they are.

- David Herron, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, http://www.7gen.com/store
- EVT 4000, Charger bike (rebuilt), Vego 600sx (rebuilt), Electrified Electra Townie
- Lectra motorcycle

Ultimately I expect the rules are set as they are to determine what can be driven on a bike path and what can be driven on an interstate highway. In my locality mopeds are essentially motorcycles -- expected to be able to go the posted speed limit on all local roads which near me are up to 50mph and are not allowed in bike lanes.

That thing is RATED to 96 volts!? RATED? Are you sure? That's insane! That's over 60mph in a 26" rim! What the hell?

...

]:D Hehe...

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contained herein.

This is what I was told:
Supposedly the amperage is restricted by the controller to 35AMPs max and the motor can tolerate up to 96 volts.

My 48V pack consists of four 12AH 12V cells, each weighing 10 pounds. Even carrying this 40 pounds low in panniers, if I lean too much at a stop sign, the rear of the bike wants to pivot and turn me over. It happened once. Not pretty. I can't imagine another 40 pounds of batteries, let alone figuring out how to charge them all conveniently. As it is I'm lucky I can bring my bike directly into my office so I can plug it in and charge it without removing the panniers. At home because of the thermal extremes of my garage, I have to remove the panniers and bring them inside for charging. If you want to move 80lbs of batteries around, have fun!

Well, if you halved the amp-hourage, you could get the same wieght. Or, better yet, use lithium. Since I'll be carrying my batts on my back, I don't think 80lbs of lead would be a good idea.

But, seriously, 96V? Cause I might just be crazy enough to try it. In fact, it may be an inevitability...

You could just make a special charging connector out of Molexes to use a 48V charger, BTW. Or use a big fat high amperage 12V charger to keep them balanced.

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contained herein.

I bought panniers with a trunk bag to sit on top of the rack because I had worn a back-pack for clothes and found it to be retaining too much heat during the summer. And it both blocked the breeze and created wind resistance.

Halving the AH would essentially cut the range by half. My pack can't really run full throttle for my 7-mile commute. If I'm not careful I find myself pedaling very hard (me, steel bike, 40lbs of batteries) the last mile or so. But using your computation above, I could conserve weight and go 60mph for 4 miles.

As for lithium packs, when I read the above messages from Russ, he referred to using two 36v Dewalt packs in series to achieve 72 volts. When I priced those packs, together they cost around $1000.00. Not including chargers. Not including the controller you'd need. I guess it all depends on your budget. To an extent, yes, this is a big science project. To justify the cost, I used last year's Federal mileage reimbursement rate of .38 per mile. With my sunk-costs, my ROI was 1000 miles. Factoring in bad weather days, I reached my ROI in a little over a year. My goal was a practical alternative (in both time and expense) to driving my car. And I'm happy with my tradeoffs.

Finally, I wouldn't want to wear the batteries for a couple of reasons. First, even if you used lithium packs, you're still wearing weight up high on the bike raising the center of gravity. Falling would be extra not fun. Second, that means you're essentially connected (wired) to the bike. Even if you put appropriate strain relief on the cables (think falling or forgetting when you get off), I'm not sure that's a safe idea. As I noted above, I had a couple of instances of wiring that shorted and caught fire. 96 volts could very well arc-weld your butt to the seat. And I'm sure you saw reports of defective lithium packs exploding and catching fire last year. Please put me in your will.

I don't think it would quite cut your range in half. You'd just get crazy top speed. You'd probably see a drop in range at the same speed you were going at 48V, but not that bad. Just speculation, anyway.

I can't afford lithium packs, either . However, the DeWalts are top of the line. You can get decent packs from Ping on eBay. The jury's still out on their quality, but I gather that Ping is a pretty good seller from one of the Endless Sphere threads. The current bid for a 48V 20Ah pack is about $500. That includes a BMS, charger, and shipping.

I have no idea what that federal mileage thing is.

Yeah, the weight is pretty high. But it doesn't have anywhere else to go. I'm planning on using a BMX. My MTB is full suspension, so there is absolutely no room for the batts in the frame. I don't think it will be that bad, though, because I've been riding with a heavy backpack for years. It just takes getting used to. This one's just a little heavier.

I put a bit of thought into the battery connector issue. I think it was the first problem I thought of. My solution was a little complex, but workable:

The connectors would be just plastic things that had metal plates on them. The plates would have big connectors for power, and smaller ones for throttle. They'd be held together by neodymium magnets. There would be a spring loaded sliding piece of plastic that covered the contactors as soon as they were separated to prevent shorts.

That's my ideal solution. In reality, I'll probably just use powerpoles and a Molex. Fuses and breakers will be used, of course. Hopefully, the contactors or wire will snap if I fall, but just give me a tug if I try to walk off. I'll carry a small repair kit in the backpack, too.

Yes, falling would be so weaksauce. Not much you can do about that.

As for the lithium fires, that problem was solved a long time ago. The problem was that the packs that caught fire were chemically similar to an explosive. In other words, they contained both a fuel and an oxidant. LiFePO doesn't have this problem. But shorts still suck, especially with A123s.

As for arc welding myself to the seat, well, I just hope someone has a camera handy .

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contained herein.

I'm in the market for a new pack. Thanks for the info on PingPing. But that auction you mentioned is near the end and the current bid is $650 + $90 shipping. I'm going to inquire about two 24V packs. The stock connectors with my kit were RCA type. I developed contact issues between them and the charger resulting in intermittent charging. It was the female RCA that momentarily fell back into my pack, shorted a battery, and caused the fire. I switched to 4-pin keyed trailer light connectors. They're cheap and easy to find. Since I had 4 wires, I also spaced the + / - so that they couldn't momentarily connect.

Thank you for posting about going from 36 to 48 Volts. I didn't want to destroy my controller and your post helped me make up my mind to give 48V a try with the existing controller and motor. Now that my Wilderness brushed 36V motor is running at 48V, I get get the kind of speed that I wanted. The four 10A/Hr SLA batteries weigh a ton and my bike is getting beat up but it's sure a lot more fun at 25MPH than 18MPH.

Glad you found it informative. As a result of the fire I mentioned above, I have a battery with a bad cell so I'm digging further into replacing my pack rather than one battery. I've exchanged several e-mails with 'pingping' who sells the LiFePO4 batteries on eBay. Because they come with a battery monitoring system (BMS), he discourages their use in either parallel or serial arrangements. Further, he won't build me a pack that allows me to split the weight between the panniers. But I may just buy a pack anyway and either do the mod myself or see how it goes. His 48V 15AH pack weighs 15 pounds. I'm currently carrying 20 lbs each side. 15 on one side doesn't seem so bad. Noting that the original WE options were 7.5AH and 12AH packs, it is also interesting to note that ping also sells 10AH packs @ 10 lbs for around $300. Would I notice a 2AH decrease when I'm also carrying 30lbs less weight for the distance?

However, the last thing I have to do before I buy any pack is to hook a meter up to my rig and measure maximum and continuous current draw while I ride. I want to make sure that I don't exceed those limits. My understanding is that the BMS will shut off the pack if you exceed the limits. Winter is about over so it's time to get out the bike again.

I was wondering if you still have a 48 tooth crank sprocket. I added 12 volts to my 36 wilderness Kit and found that I had so much speed that I could not peddle, so I found a 60 tooth crank sprocket, now I can assist up to 30 to 35 MPH. I have the website where I got the sprocket. http://www.gaerlan.com/

My bike is an old 10 speed. I haven't counted the teeth on the chain-ring, but I have noticed that even in the large chain ring and the smallest gear, at 31-32 I still feel like I'm spinning. But I spend so little time at that speed, I'm okay with it. Much over 30mph I get concerned that my helmet might not be sufficient. Thanks for the info though. I'll go check out that site.

I bought my BD36 motor kit off ebay about three months ago...I installed it on a Schwinn s-30 Full suspension MTB. I thought i was amazed with the stock kit. Made and extra battery pack and everything. I considered going to 48V with stock controller. I got mad when non of my local shops didnt carry a rack bag big enough... Today i decided to tackle it again. I realized that there was a plastic shell in my bag ... i removed it and it gave me the clearance i needed to shove the 4th 12ah SLA in my bag. Compared to the 36v pack i notice the speed and torque increase... The hills in my complex that i used to have to use the motor to assist me im able to get 80% up these steep grade hills before having to pedal. One thing i do notice... You can feel the hub motor heating up.... smell it a little bit too. I plan to move closer to my job to where im like 2 miles away from it and gas isnt hurting me that much but it will definetly raise an eyebrow or two. Ive been wanting to get a 48v 20 ah kit if this was successful... Thinking about selling the bike and making an illegal trike...lol How much u think this would go for... Im currently charing my pack by using a low amperage car charger and wiring them all in parallel... any placve i can get hold of a 48v charger. How far do you think i can push the stock controller.... What about range.... i didnt test it but under my assumption the more voltage you have the less amperage it needs therfore increased range.... but im not sure how the controller is wired. I know there are sum the more you give it the more amperage it pulls... Note to all... Slicks wet pavement and speed on an overloaded bike in a corner.... not a good idea...

I bought a 48V Crystalyte charger. A quick check on eBay turned up this seller:
http://stores.ebay.com/HuaQiang-North-Road_W0QQ_trksidZp284.m184QQ_trkparmsZits%3DS%252BI%252BSS
He seems to carry a wide range of both chargers and alternate controllers.

Voltage translates into power (48v faster than 36v). AH translates into range (12ah further than 7ah).

Not really, but close.
Voltage = RPM
Current = Power
Amp Hours = Range

Adding Voltage at the same Amp Hours also adds Range provided your max Current draw is the same as before you added the Voltage. Range is a function of Watt Hours which is Voltage times Amp Hours.

Here is a simple chart with formulas showing their interdependencies.

You can replace watts with watt hours as long as you replace amps with amp hours in these formulas.

Grandpa Chas S.

Moderator Captain

So if the stock controller was a 20A 36V controller.. more likely its pulling 20A at 48V?

I would guess it is pulling more current, about 25 amps would be my first guess. This all has to do with voltage, current and resistance. We know the resistance stays about the same because we did not change the motor, so we can calculate the resistance using E / I = R, or 36-volts / 20 amps = 1.8K ohms. Now that we know the resistance we can calculate the new current draw, at the new voltage, using E / R = I, or 48-volts / 1.8 = 26.6666666667 Amps. You have to use all the pieces to get the correct answer and this is still only theory. I would want to use a meter to measure these values. Remember there is voltage sag from the batteries which in turn causes current sag and the RPM of the motor causes its' resistance to change over time so this will also effect voltage and current values. As you can see the formulas are great for getting an estimate of what you should see, but it is no substitute for a good old meter.

Grandpa Chas S.

Moderator Captain

GRRR volt meter going spastic... needs new battery.. Im checking resistance across the motor right???... I agree with your theory unless the controller had a fixed voltage regulator but if the motor is heating up and its faster then its prob pulling more amps... thanks for the info.. I just looked at the guy that made the onride video thats wicked speed... I wouldnt mind registering my bike with the dmv .... Strongly considering building a trike. Cost is almost not an option cause i know im going to use it everyday and it will pay for its self. Do you think i can get even halfway to what he is doing by going to 72v and a new controller.... and slas.... i dont think lithium can take that much current draw... nimh is not an option at the momment without a trailer.

By some miracle I shoved another battery in this bag for rear rack. So now i have 5 12v 12AH SLA. Its running at 63-64 v charged. I think running this high this would be a pedal start and then possibly using the controller. Someone mention using the cheap plastic chinese controller they melted one of the traces on a long hill. I have the bike upside down free spinning and its going fast and doest have that annoying hum. The controller is cool. The motor is barely warm. I did a 2 minute dead stall with the breaks applied to test worst case senario trying to get it to pull the mamximum amps... nothing spectacular happened. Its 1 in the morning i cant test ride it...... Will let u know whats what when i test ride it on some hills in my apt complex. Going to get a new controller might as well try to push the old one. 60V might be the satisfaction i need.

Yes. Since the controller measures the voltage differential across the shunt (which is proportionate to the current being drawn), it is unaffected by voltage.

Oh, yeah: Remember to check the brushes a little while from now. Higher voltage causes them to wear more quickly.

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contained herein.

I just did my 60V test with stock controller. Results were good. I drained the pack entirely with any smoke testing. The controller didnt get warm. The hub motor thats another story. Definetly warmer than my 48v test.Its warm to the point after 10-15 seconds you might wanna move your hand... It was pretty cool this morning only 55 degrees. The speed was excellent. Torque was excellent. Climed all the hills in my complex with out stalling or need for pedaling. I think because of the combination of speed... inertia and additional torque. The speed of my bike is exceed making it very unsave to pedal not unsafe to justify the cost of buying another ring gear.. I did dead starts and peadal first starts no problem... If im not carful on a dead start i might have a seat where the sun dont shine.Im 6'1 280lbs.. Fit in endurance but not in shape. I do 20 miles without the kit sadly 20 with the kit. with 50lbs of slas a 37lb bike and the 10-15lb weight of this hub motor. Im doing damn good. Gotta get a speedo... Lost my last one but on flat ground. Acceleration and speed.. Easily a daily commuter no effore required. As far as durability... Like i said im fluffy Im maxing out the system at 60 v this thing should be fried... how many more runs its gonna take i dont know but it has my two thumbs up... wonder do i have to register this yet lol.... lets add one more battery! and find out.Sure do wish i had a 60v charger im tired of rewiring this pack to charge. with my 12v charger I think i might do a 48v to 60v mod an ad a toggle switch to switch between the two voltages ... Like a flat level at 48v and a speed/hill climber mode. I got how to do it in mind any tips on executing it.

Anyone know the maximum charge rate of the SLA batteries. I got a 12v 1A charger and if my calulations are correct 5 12AH batteries wired parallel would give me a reserve capacity of 60AH meaning my charger would take 60 hours. If the cells batteries were completely flat. I can deal with a day of charging but 2 1/2 days Nooooo!. And i got two sets that need charging.... guess imma have to break down and get the 60v charger. I did a second run today at 60v with stock controller and installed speedo i clocked 36 top but i wish i had someone lighter to test it with to see the speed with an average weight rider..... Also the controller does know how much voltage you are giving it. I know this because when the packs were about dead the empty light came on ...on my throttle. I was shocked at this. Maybe the controller is actually worth something. With the speed and the amps it was pulling i wasnt able to do the normal length of my trail ride. Time to upgrade to lithium to get those 20AH i need to be back where i was before as far as range.

Where did you get the controller for this? Do you have any info on your Dewalt packs too? Thanks

We're using the stock controller, i.e. it came with the wheel kit when we bought it. There's a guy above who's using Dewalt packs. 60v guy (icecube57) is using SLA.

On a different topic, I've recently had a dramatic decrease in range on my ride. My 6 mile commute is mostly flat, but suddenly if there's any wind at all I find my Low Batt indicator is lit and I'm having to pedal the last two miles. I've tested all 4 SLA's. I even replaced one that seemed to sag more than the other 3 after being off charge for 24 hours (the SLA closest to the fire referenced above). I'm having to back down on the throttle for the whole ride just to make sure I get there. My pack starts off at nearly 55V when fresh off the charger.

Anyone have any idea what could cause this? Is this a possible symptom of worn brushes? I'm not hearing any grinding noises.

I was running at 60v 66-67 charged with my SLA pack on stock 36v controller for little over a month. I went out for a ride the other day and it sounded like a handgun going off. The fets blew on the controller. I order a 60v controller thats supposed to peak between 60-100A this should be fun. Check the resistance of your SLA batteries. Its supposed to be between 14-19million ohm fully charged. Depending on brand. Check the data sheet on your batteries. If its way high i think it signals a bad battery. Ive been trying to balance my slas but i think they are just made different .I abused one and left it sitting at less than 10v for a month but funny that one fully recover after cycling.. the sister cells is whats acting Fully charged without the float charge on them and sitting more than as day my voltages range from 13.2- 13.7 same batch. Some charger at higher voltages than the other. Its the internal resistance. Its best to replace the whole string of batts in a pack if one fails. Try giving your batteries a good cycle a good discharge and a slow recharge and repeat. to regain capacity. Sounds to me you have a weak bat in your pack. It should be revealed in a load test. Hook a headlight in series with a volt meter. And check the volt drop. You should find your weak battery.

Check the resistance on all your live wires. You could have possible shorted a wire. With my set up. Ive made molten hot connecters that didnt resemble anything. there could be damage in the wire or after it get hot enough the resistance is rising to where its givng a volt drop lower than what it actually is. causing the controller to cut out. Could be in the wires or in the motor itself. go figure

Hi,
Please forgive any poor "V"etiquette as I am new to the forum. I have a BD36 with 3 12v batteries in the back.
When I purchased a kit from eBay, I joined a EV disscussion group and was told (by a person who seemed to know quite a bit) that I could go to radio shack and add another 12v batt. and get maybe 5 additional 5 MPH. Now that I have become addicted to EV, I would like to do this.
Since then, everyone I have asked replies "don't do it it will fry your controller and/or motor).
Well this discussion seems to disprove that. I would like for someone to let me know what the possibilities are for me.

http://www.tncscooters.com/YK42-3.php Here are the specs for the controller I put on after I fried mine by trying to fix my throttle.
Any responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for having me.

E-Biking, the way to go.

I'm using a BD36 with 4 12v batteries. I have about 350 miles on it, seems to be fine. I would think you'd want to match your existing batteries, otherwise, it would probably only be as good as your weakest one. I get about 27 mph out of mine, on flat surface, without pedaling. I have 4 batteries, 12ah. I get about 12 to 14 miles on them without charging. That lets me pedal lightly with it and go 22 to 24 mph for the trip. Everything on mine is standard issue product.

Hi Jack,

The challenge here is that you replaced the stock controller with an entirely different model. My entire experience is with the stock controller. While the motor will certainly handle the increased voltage, you might have to search around to find someone with experience with your specific controller. Otherwise, 48v might immediately fry your new controller if its internal capacitors are less forgiving than the ones in the stock controller. I'm not sure what drove you to the new controller, but you can buy a stock replacement controller from WE.

I've got close to 1000 miles on my bike at 48v and no issues.

Rob

Thanks very much for the help. I switched controllers as my original throttle broke and I touch 2 wires together which fried the original controller. My bike with three batteries will do 26, and I am 230 lbs. I am surprised that yours is not faster. Anyway before I can think about another batt. I have to work on my hub the wires tore away and anyone who has taken the side off of the hub, knows it is not easy. Wish me luck and thank for the friendly welcom.

E-Biking, the way to go.

Lewish, I wanted to let you know that My bike with the 3 batteries will do 19-23mph. I said 26 but that is when I am pedaling. Also, when you say stick with the same type of battery. Do you mean as far as the specs or the actual name brand? I assume that you meant spects, but want to make sure. One thing I like is that no one has ever noticed that my bike has a kit on it. I found a very cool way to mount the batteries very tight under the seat. Although I am dumb as a post when it comes to the electricity, I have always had a knack for "jury rigging" things. It will be a challeng to add a fourth batt. and still make it just look like normal bike pack. I will send pics when I am done.
Happy 4th, Phil

E-Biking, the way to go.

When I go to their website, I see where you can buy the kit, the accessory page only had one item, and the bargain bin was empty. We on the site would I go to look at or purchase controller or other parts.
Thanks Mr. Fritz

E-Biking, the way to go.

Phil, I meant the specs for the batteries. I'm no electrical expert, but if you get a battery with all the same characteristics and specs, I'm sure it would be fine. I've put my four 12ah SLA batteries in Panniers, two on each side, so the gravity position is lower and they are out of site. I can tell the difference in handling of the bike with them in Panniers vs. a bag on top of the rack.

You're right. It took searching to find stores that claim to have it. Wide variation on price. You should probably e-mail them first. Some have a replacement throttle as well.

Try the following places:
http://www.cycleshedstore.com/page12.html
http://www.javacycles.com/products.php?catid=59
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/pindex.asp?Page=2

Good luck.

Rob

Mr. Fritz,
Thanks a bunch man! It is nice to have people like you to correspond with. Having the batteries in panniers would keep them closer to the ground. You may have just opened my eyes to some ideas. Cheers my friend, Philip

E-Biking, the way to go.

Mr. Fritz,
I know you have noway of being sure till' someone tries it. However, hypothetically, if I found a way to put 3 more batteries 12v (same specs as I have now)on my bike and purchased a 72v controller, and charger it would work on the BD36?
If you have aready stated it and I missed it forgive me, but what speed do you reach with 4.
And would you venture a mph guess at 72v for me?,
Thanks for your time and help. Philip N.

E-Biking, the way to go.

I don't know about 72v. I consider above 48v wear it out fast territory for brushed motors. When I put a fourth battery on my trike I get about 28-29 mph on the flat vs 22-24 mph with 36 v. The mountain bike is a bit faster, so 30 mph should be about right for a 26 inch BD36 at 48v. Slower of course after a mile and the voltage sag kicks in. Those speeds are quite enough for me on a bike. I like stronger frames and better brakes on motorcycles for higher speeds. Above 25mph on my local roads, I'm just bending wheels and breaking spokes anyway.

Be the pack leader.
36 volt sla schwinn trike
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb

48V on my BD36 got me 27mph when it was in a 26". 72V would be a 50% increase, so just over 40mph. The BD36 would fry at this speed, I think.

Also, there is this issue with running it at 72V...

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contained herein.

Dogman and Link,
Thanks for being the "sobering ying" to my "raging yang"! Your voices are of wisdon and reason. I don't why I would try it. At 36 I have fun, and at 48 I probably wouldn't feel safe going any faster.
Thanks both of you. Philip

And yes the instructions on that link went well beyond what I have time to do right now.

E-Biking, the way to go.

Philip,

I weigh 145 lbs and typically average 26 mph with a top speed of 32. In the end what this did for me was change the top-end speed of the motor into a sustainable speed. If you're going to use SLA's, I'd definitely find a way to carry the batteries lower on the bike.

BTW, like Dogman, I think I observed that I did actually get a low indicator at the proper time with my pack. I wasn't expecting to see it work properly with higher voltage.

Rob

I'm new to the forum. Just reading has been very helpful so far. I'm soon to go up to 48v on my BD36. One concern is primarily from the Crystalyte forum. There are a few people there who report problems with front suspension, so I'm wondering if adding power will be a problem. I have a Mongoose aluminum frame with Mozo M30 front forks (steel tube). The only specific problem reported is with the dropouts. Those on mine look to be about 3/8" steel. Hard to imagine that those would break. Anyone know of any other problems with front suspension forks? I've put about 200 miles on these with no problems so far. I plan to use the stock BD36 controller with 48v. Has anyone heard of any problems with that yet? The pictures above ("this issue" link) show more wear on the motor at higher voltage. Is that from voltage, or speed/friction/heat? For example, would a constant 36v 20amp have the same impact on the motor as 72v 10amp? Sorry for so many questions on the first post. Hope I did this correctly.

Gasoline? No thanks.
RL

I have standard MTB steel forks on my bike with no problems. Always a good idea to periodically inspect your dropouts and make sure your bolts are tight. While I can't comment on the suspension forks, I've got over 1000 miles on my bike at 48v without any wear issues. While I'd expect more wear at higher output, I had difficulty drawing conclusions from the pictures because I don't recall finding any "before" pictures just "after" pictures. Further, I'd like to see a set of comparitive pictures with a motor only run at 36v. When I was told the motor was rated at 96v I was not told how that would effect motor life relative to 36v.

Even after mashing my cheapie steel forks to fit the hub, I have seen no indications of a problem with the dropouts. I run the MTB at 36 v, and the trike too most of the time. When I need to go a bit further, and since the Kmart is down the big hill, I will put the trike on 48v, with the same forks and have no problems. On both bikes though, there is a shocking ammount of lateral play in the tubes, but that was present when braking even before the motor. It hasn't increased any with the motor, but it's bound to be putting a lot more than normal wear on em. Since the tubes are steel, it's not worrying me any. Above 48 volts is definitely torque arm time, or big x5 motors at any voltage. The WE hubs are pretty strong, but I think as long as you have steel and a good flat connection at the washers you are ok at 48v.

I may be cracking my motor soon, so I'll take some pics when I do. I've climbed the big hill too many times when it was 100F, so there are some very funny noises coming from my hub now. Still running fine though.

Be the pack leader.
36 volt sla schwinn trike
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb

I ordered the new battery and 48v charger this morning, so will be running 48 volts in about a week. Has anyone checked range improvement? If the BD36 gets about 15-20 miles at 20mph at 36 volts, does 20mph at 48 volts extend the range?

Gasoline? No thanks.
RL

dogman, Hw mny miles on your BD36 now?

Did the first run at 48 volts today (stock BD36 kit with one extra battery). Much more fun than 36 volts. Not sure if torque ends up much better, but going into a small hill faster helps. Think I may have screwed up the new charger though (reversed polarity, heard some sizzling at the plug). Good thing I tried to check the charger before I plugged into the controller. Had to rotate batteries with the 36 volt charger. Anyone know how the TNC Scooters chargers are supposed to work? The description at their site says lights will be red during charge and green when charged. I have one red and one green. Hoping it's just a bad connection that can be fixed with a new connector. I've contacted them, but haven't heard back yet.

Gasoline? No thanks.
RL

Oh bummer, join the club, I sizzled two chargers doing the same dumb thing twice! Others just arrived non working.

A fourth battery will lengthen your range some if you ride at the same speed, but since you will be very likely to climb hills faster, and leave stop signs faster, it won't be quite a 25% increase. If you are getting 20 miles out of the stock batteries on a BD36 you are either very slow or very light. The best I ever got was 8 miles, but that is at full throttle. When I get 20 miles now, that is with a Ping battery.

My original motor, on the trike, has about 450 miles on it. The second one, that I fried and repaired and is on the MTB, now has about 550 miles. Crossed the thousand mile mark this friday on the way home. I'm on track for 3 or 4 thousand miles a year. I tend to ride about 75 to 100 miles a week. It was more, but now I take the bus halfway home to avoid climbing the hill in the heat.

Be the pack leader.
36 volt sla schwinn trike
36 volt lifepo4 mongoose mtb

The longest I've gone has been 8 miles (round trip to and from work), but seems to be a fair amount of power left in the home stretch. I'll probably not ride much faster with 48 volts, but hoping to peddle less on warmer days. Think blowing the charger was a cool trick? Should have seen what happened when I was trying to use some needle nose pliers to work on the sizzled receptacle -- with the batteries still connected!

Gasoline? No thanks.
RL

I'm getting some quick responses from TNC Scooters. Charger is definitely blown. There are not any instructions that come with the chargers, but both lights are supposed to be red when charging, and green when charge complete. I had one red and one green after it blew.

Gasoline? No thanks.
RL