My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

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andrew
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Edit: 5/12/07 updated specs

Edit: 3/30/08 Removing circuit breaker. It is not a reliable disconnect. Instead I'll use the SW200 contactor as the emergency disconnect, and have the clutch cable run to a switch that is in the circuit powering the SW200 contactor coil.

First two pics were recovered by archive team, thanks!

Was going to wait till I had it done, but they made me jump to gun and take a few more pics of the bike as it is now. Now I got to hustle and get this sucker rolling!

Old pic, I think about a year ago. Note messy 12v wiring still hanging from frame *shudder*.
kz_750.jpg

Pic from Nov. 2, 2006.
nov_2_em.jpg

Following pics were taken today.

Click here for full size view


Click here for full size view


Click here for full size view

Bike specs:
(2) Eteks being run in parallel at 72v
(6) EVP35-12 B&B batteries
Zivan NG1 Charger
(5) Powercheq battery regulators
Curtis 72v 400a controller
Curtis Albright Contactor SW200-505
Airpax Circuit Breaker trip amps: 313 NOTE: Removed!
"Fibergrate Dynaform" fiberglass material used for battery mounts, available from http://www.usplastic.com Used fiberglass repair to form material around bottom of cradle to secure it.
72T Rear sprocket from http://www.surpluscenter.com
11T Drive sprocket (not pictured)
Aluminum shaft for coupling (not pictured)
#40 Chain (not pictured)
UPDATE:
LogiSystems 48-72v 1140 amp controller
Custom made chain tensioner

Performance w/400A Curtis & 12T sprocket:
0-30 mph 2.5 sec
0-55 mph 6 sec
Controller max current: 550+ amps
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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?

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Garret
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

that is great. Wish I would have thought of that. I look forward to seeing how it works out, if the motors work well there or get in the way. Where is it located? I'll have to try it when it is done :)

goodnslo
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

Are you moving the footpegs forward since the motors are gonna be in the way of your legs? Or is it possible to recess the motors further in? Are you also gonna use some sort of insulated barrier to separate the cables and connectors for the etek so that you dont accidently rub them with your legs?

andrew
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

Motors will not be in way of legs (hopefully). They were strategically placed. They will not be in way of passenger's legs either. Stock peg location is fine with this setup.

Quote:

Are you also gonna use some sort of insulated barrier to separate the cables and connectors for the etek so that you dont accidently rub them with your legs?

Not a bad idea.

Quote:

Where is it located? I'll have to try it when it is done

In Rio Rancho NM.

Oh and before you ask what the tank is doing in the last pic, its going back on! I just don't want to look at all that crap while I'm riding around, and the tank covers it all from my view nicely.

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Malcolm
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

Looking good so far Andrew. What's your projected weight and range? I see you've got an Airpax circuit breaker. Where will you install that – I can't see it in the photos. The reason I ask is that I've just bought one for my own motorcycle conversion, but it says that it has to be installed vertically – any idea why?

Fechter
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

That's going to be a monster with twin motors. Looks great.
I'd highly recommend making some "crash bars" to protect the motor brush caps in the likely event that someday the cycle tips over. Even a simple peg that sticks out to hit the pavement first will help save them.

I'll be interested to see how your coulpling between motors works.

Archive Team
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

`Andrew,
No problem, glad to see we were able to help. It's just one very small step in retrieving some of the old Voltage Forum lost Archives from being lost forever. We'll be watching your progress.

Archive Team ;)
archive_team@visforvoltage-moderator.net
Voltage Forum Archives
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/230

1000's of lost images from the old Voltage Forum looking for there owners.

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hendersonmotorcycles
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

dude, totally send me an email, i did not hope to find another electric motorcycle project in rio rancho

hendersonmotorcycles@yahoo.com

http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman

masonsteele
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

Andrew, nice work. looks awesome. How many months did that take you?
I'm just starting a similar project running two eteks at 72volts in an r6 frame. I have a question for you. How are you running the eteks to the rear wheel. I'm trying to run mine through a jack shaft, but have yet to find a suitable one. I think I need something a little bulkier than the go-cart drop-ins that i keep finding. Any advice would be appreciated.
thanks,
M

andrew
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

Thanks for the comments guys. I'll try and answer all questions in order.

Quote:

How many months did that take you?

Bought the bike back in June of 2005.

Quote:

How are you running the eteks to the rear wheel.

Directly. A chain tensioner is being used to divert the chain from rubbing against the swing arm. It should keep the chain taught when the rear shocks are depressed. I don't know if this will work well yet.

masonsteele,
Might want to check the EM discussion list. http://www.electricmotorcycles.net

Quote:

What's your projected weight and range?

Total weight est. ~470 It might actually be quite a bit lighter as I did this estimate with generous estimates for component & material weight. Frame w/wheels (& tires) = 202.5

Range est. 10-12 miles. 5-8 miles hard riding. Looks like I have about 1.3 kwhrs to work with: http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/EVP/EVP35-12.pdf

I attached a pic of the circuit breaker. The clutch cable is routed to pull the breaker.

EDIT: 3/30/08 PLEASE note that this setup has been changed. The breaker has been removed!

Quote:

it says that it has to be installed vertically – any idea why?

I really don't know. I'll probably do some research and figure out why. Mine is a custom breaker that I got from ebay, looks like it is not a standard model. Says trip amps is 313. I did a test and passed 500 amps through it for ~7 sec. and no trip. Says delay is "sp". At least it will function as a spring-loaded switch with a very high interrupt current (10k amps).

Mar_5_2007_EM.jpg

P.S. Thanks moderators for fixing up the topic post.
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Malcolm
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

Thanks for the close-up Andrew. That's exactly the same way I planned to fit my breaker – using the clutch cable to activate it. I'll do a little more searching myself and see if I can find out why a breaker should be installed vertically ...

... I just found this:

"Many hydraulic-magnetic breakers are available with a selection of delay curves to fit particular applications. Hydraulic-magnetic circuit breakers are not affected by ambient temperature, but tend to be sensitive to rotational position. These breakers should be mounted in a vertical position to prevent gravity from influencing the movement of the solenoid. If mounted in a different position, derating may be required."

So it's not really a problem if we're just using them as on/off switches.

Stleride
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

`hendersonmotorcycles
Welcome to V is for Voltage Forums
I'm sure our Community members and visitors would enjoy reading you blog, can we also post it on our site? http://visforvoltage.org/node/add/blog

Stleride
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hendersonmotorcycles
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

i got a nice one from www.ubuilditplans.com in fact i might sell it as i deciced not to use it

andrew
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Re: My KZ750 electric motorcycle project.

Controller from LogiSystems came in. Ain't she purty? Supposed to be 1140 amps max at 72v.

DSCN1032.jpg

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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

andrew
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Working out chain drive

I'm working on the chain drive system. There is another potential problem. Please don't plan on trying a similar setup until I know it will work.

The problem is the chain tension may literally cause the rear shocks to bottom under acceleration. I didn't think of this.

Driving chain at 1" radius results in (400 amps * 1.14 inlbs/amp [etek torque constant] = 456 inlbs torque) = 456 lbs force. This means a force of 456 pounds pulling on the chain at 400 amps. Since it is pulling more in line with the shocks than this can be a big problem. We'll see...

---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

goodnslo
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Re: Working out chain drive

sounds like you are gonna have to use another jackshaft located closer to the pivot point (maybe located on the swingarm?), but that would require a chain tensioner going to the new jackshaft.

ILBCNU
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Re: Working out chain drive

If an additional jack shaft were used at the pivot point of the swing arm very little of the torque would be transfered to the suspension. Using one shaft to pivot the rear suspension and placing 2 sprockets on that shaft would solve most of your problems. This would also simplify chain adjustments and eliminate the need for a chain tensioner.

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andrew
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Re: Working out chain drive

Wrapping things up...finally. Got a lot of finishing up to do, but the basics are just about worked out. The existing drive setup will work ok, just need to add some spacers to the shocks or get shocks with stiffer springs. Shock bottoming is not a problem. The problem is the chain tensioner is going up too far and causing the chain to rub against itself. This is only under hard acceleration.

The Grainger tensioner was really causing problems because it was not designed for this much tension (and was tilting). Had to fabricate a tensioner, which is working well now.

I got the bike speedo reading 55 mph on a nearby street, but don't want to venture further out to see if I can get faster until I get it registered. Acceleration is really good with the Curtis. Once I get the new controller in, and the chain problems worked out than the bike is really going to fly.

Given my problems, I wouldn't recommend a similar drive setup unless you are very determined.
It offers a few advantages:
Motors stay pretty cool
Plenty of space for batteries without motor, or jack shaft sprockets in the way
Fewer sprockets, than jackshaft setup
Only one chain, as opposed to two for a jackshaft setup
Coupling motors with shaft is simpler and more efficient than with sprockets/chain

The disadvantages:
Difficult to align motor shafts
Difficult to setup drive system. May need to fabricate a chain tensioner using idle sprocket
Need more spring pressure at rear shocks. Can't have as much rear wheel travel
Can be difficult to setup drive sprocket if it needs to be where shafts couple
Timing needs to be adjusted on both motors

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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

andrew
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Re: Working out chain drive

I did some speed testing today. I'm still working out the drive system, but it is almost there. The chain is still rubbing itself at low speed take off so I have to hold back from 0 to about 15 mph. These numbers are with motorcycle speedo while I was counting off in my head. The Curtis ramp has not been adjusted. Also the motors are not dividing the load evenly, and still need some timing adjustment.

Specs with Curtis 72v 400A and 12T drive sprocket
0 - 30 mph 2.5 sec
0-55 mph 6 sec
(couldn't get faster on available stretch of road)

Specs with Logisystems controller
Afraid to try it yet!

I actually didn't expect the B&B 35ah batteries to do so well. I will get some battery performance numbers in the next couple of weeks.
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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

andrew
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Re: Working out chain drive

Got the amp and volt meter installed today. The batteries, as expected, are performing better than I thought. Also the controller is pumping out a lot more amps than it is rated, peaking at 550+ battery amps. At this current the pack voltage sags to approximately 55v when fully charged.

Even if I keep it under 300 amps the motorcycle accelerates very well. I'd have to guess that having two eteks really helps with peak power, and efficiency. The motors are barely getting warm. Having them right out in the air stream keeps them amazingly cool. The HV wiring is getting warmer than the motors (2 AWG from evsource.com). I probably should of used 1 AWG.

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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here E.T.A. 1 mo

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Re: Working out chain drive

`Andrew,
Are there any new updates on your KZ750 Project?
BTW your KZ750 Electric Motorcycle Project Hand Books has been created, you can add a intro or what ever you want to the beginning.
A picture of what it looked like at the start of the project would be nice, we're working on creating a Image Gallery, a Slide show would really be a nice addition to your Hand Book.
So far this is our first and only Building Electric Motorcycle Collaborative Hand Books, we hope more soon follow.

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andrew
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Re: Working out chain drive

I'm slowly completing it. I am working on the tank now, and still have the 12v wiring to do. I expect to get it completely done my mid August.

Once I have it registered and insured I'll get some videos of riding it.

The handbook is an awesome idea. I hope you put up some of the other member projects too. I've got some pre-conversion pics, so I'll work on a slide show if you can show me how to set it up.

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Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they might want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here

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Re: Working out chain drive

`Andrew,
You were a very big part of creating them, or should I say you were part of the wind beneath our Wings, along with Chas Stevenson, our Webmaster David Herron just to name a few.
Abstract2.jpg
The Slide Show is still dream or should I say a work in progress. The Archive Team is working on one for there Old Voltage Forum Archives we may be able to tie into.
Thanks again for all your support of our V is for Voltage Community, it's really appreciated by all.

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Re: Working out chain drive

` ;)
Andrew,
Since we still don't have a on site Image Galley, and we don't want to continue delaying you, if you want to attempt to figure out how to use the V is for Voltage Community Photo Gallery go right ahead.
We just haven't had the time to learn how to use it yet, could use your help and input.

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andrew
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Re: Working out chain drive
chas_stevenson
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Re: Working out chain drive

Andrew,

Looks great!! The only question I have is, "Do the motors get hot?" Might make a nice leg warmer in the winter but during the summer they could give you a hot seat. Other than that I think it's a great looking ride and I hope you will let us know how it runs.

Chas S.

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Re: Working out chain drive

Yep, looking good - I particularly like the birdsong in the background! (no really I do! - it's a subtle reminder of the benefits of electric ;-) )

I've stalled on my project - it's too cold even in the garage.

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andrew
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Re: Working out chain drive

The motors can get kind of hot after riding a while (~130 deg F). Actually, I used the motor temperature to adjust the timing so both motors heat up about the same.

It rides great, though the drive is a little noisy. Unfortunately the frame is bent. Can anyone offer any advice on how to straighten it? It was in an accident, I can tell because my other bike was in the same type of accident (with me on it) being a head on impact. I replaced both front forks, but the front tire is still out of line with the rear by quite a bit.

P.S. jdh good luck with your project when you get started again. This took me 2 yrs so don't feel bad, but I kinda stalled a lot more than necessary. Just take it one small step at a time and it'll begin to take shape in no time.

goodnslo
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Re: Working out chain drive

great progress!!

Frxdy
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Re: Working out chain drive

Just exactly how are the motors connected to the rear wheel? Pics?

andrew
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Re: Working out chain drive

Quote:

Just exactly how are the motors connected to the rear wheel? Pics?

Click image for more detail (2.3 mb size)
EM_IMG_0420.jpg

I could probably use a better spring...

Here's the drive sprocket, sprocket to hold the drive sprocket in place on left side, and a sprocket hub on the other side to hold it in place. I know it's kind of a jury rigged setup. The sprocket acts as a coupling, and initially it moved off the motor shaft when testing. I could of bought a Martin sprocket item 40C12, but it cost something like $175 to custom machine. All of this cost about <$20.
Click image (2.1 mb)
IMG_0010.jpg

Here's the coupling on the other shaft, from surpluscenter.
Click image (2.2 mb)
IMG_0011.jpg

The coupling shaft is aluminum, from Mcmaster-Carr. I had to cut the shaft to size, and machine the keyway.

Aligning the shafts was fun. I had to grind down the motor mounting plate spacers on one side, including the washer at bottom to set the motors parallel. Then I moved the motors in line with each other by using a straight edge along the coupling shaft as a guide. It's not a perfect alignment, but it's good enough, and the motors run pretty smooth. I have a flex element coupling that I may put in on the right side.

Got the connectors now to begin working on a parallel charging scheme. I'm also doing some other upgrades, like putting in the Logisystems controller.

IMG_0009.jpg

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