xtreme xb-502 not driving

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roosterscooter
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Hello, My name is Adrian, my self and the owner of the xb are new to v is for voltage and to e-bikes. I am currently a motorcycle mechanic and have been one for a number of years, unfortunately when I had the opportunity to jump into this xb and figure out the answers to its symptoms, it is a totally different creature than a motorcycle. One problem we had was the headlight bulbs were burnt out, so I brought both bulbs to work, purchased a pair of eleven fifty seven bulbs, and installed them, lol As soon as I turned the key it looked like the scooter had taken a photo of myself, come to find out I wasnt thinking about the voltage ratings, and now I know to get forty eight volt bulbs. For the next problem, after figuring this all out about the bulbs I had to put the scooter back together due to the fact my land lady needed to ride it, so upon installing the front plastics, she turned key and was ready to go, unfortunately the scooter never moved, so i chased the motor wires to the controller, no breaks in wire, no chaffing, my volt meter is at work so i wasnt able to see if there was resistance. I also took the throttle housing apart, found out that i cant get inside the throttle tube, so I have ran out of ideas. Im stuck because I have never worked on a scooter and some of the way they wired this scooter is very frustrating, I was wondering if anyone has had this problem before, or knows of any advice, I have not been able to reach technical support and their wiring diagram is junk, any advice or tips or trouble shooting flow charts would be greatly appreciated. And another thing, someone here had said that it could be due to a hall effect "chip", I have never known of a "chip" but of a sensor, could this be the issue, and where might it be located? Thank You for your time

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mf70
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Welcome to the EV world! This is the place where the meter shown as the battery capacity gauge works nothing like a fuel gauge. On the other hand, this is the world where by driving slower you have more "fuel" in your tank.

On the other other hand, you'll be ahead of the rest of us in chassis tuning and tire changing.

The Hall effect sensor uses three wires: a 12V supply, a ground, and a sense wire. The voltage on the sense wire varies as a magnetic field next to the sensor varies. The throttle grip itself moves a magnet past the sensor. After my wife dumped the XB600 (speed bump), the throttle stopped working. It turned out that the magnet had jumped out of place. It had been a big knock, enough to snap off the end of the brake lever. Like a lot of EV work, A-B testing is often the path to success. If I hadn't gotten the throttle apart, I would have had to buy a replacement. Fortunately, the Chinese system of factories assembling standardized parts into "new designs." A side effect is that almost everything can be adapted from another brand.

Let us know how it goes!

Mark

roosterscooter
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Hey Mark thanks, I appreciate the advice, unfortunately when I had the throttle tube off the handle I saw no entry point into where the magnet resides, also from the throttle tube there are a green wire, green with a yellow tracer wire, and a gray wire, I have traced all wires back to the controller, like I said before my volt meter is at work which I will be able to grab tomorrow, now I was wondering if there is a way to test the controller, or even if I test resistance threw the throttle tube, would I be doing it right, also the motor has four connections coming from it, one major connector and the a blue, yellow and green individual wire, which I cant remember when I pulled the seat off if they were colored matched, or off matched, like I said before I am in the dark with this thing. But thank you mark

mf70
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

like I said before my volt meter is at work which I will be able to grab tomorrow,

Still??? Hee hee, all my thoughts, I'm afraid, start with "Take your voltmeter..." I've been startled by the accuracy of the HarborFreight cheapo VOM's. I carry one on the scoot all the time. They are not as robust as a "real" meter, but their DC Volts measurements are accurate to +- .03 volts, which is an order of magnitude better than ANY analog meter from the old days.

The best source I know for tech knowledge is Endless Sphere. A thread on throttle testing is:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18204

The, however are talking about BOTH a VOM and a variable power supply. Hey: You of all people should know that "ya gotta have the tools..." How would you check valve clearance without a feeler gauge?

Now, the real problem is that you have no "go" when the key is on.

  • First, get the circuit diagram:
    http://www.x-tremescooters.com/manuals/XB-502-manual-3-09-10.pdf
  • Check fuses. I don't see ANY on the circuit diagram, but my XB600 has two: a 20A glass tube for the instruments and a blade type 30 A on the pack itself.
  • Check brakes, making sure that the "dead man switches" embedded in each brake lever is open circuit. (If a brake lever is pulled, the controller is shut down to avoid braking a driven wheel.)
  • Check connections (again). You should have clean and solid connections between:

    • Pack and controller (2 wires, probably 14GA - I rewired with 10GA)
    • Phase wires between controller and hubmotor (3 wires, 12 GA)
    • Hall effect wires between controller and hubmotor (5 wires, 22 GA)

  • Take your meter (!!!) and check battery voltage at the pack. For a 48V system, a fully charged unloaded pack will be at 51.5 or so. On the other end of the scale,the controller will auto shut-down if the voltage is under around 44 volts.
  • Take your meter (!!!) and check voltage at the throttle wires. One should be @ ground, one at 5V (?) and one should change from 0V to 3V as throttle is twisted.

I'm out of ideas at this point.

roosterscooter
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Hey Mark,
This is Lisa typing this time. I don't think we're going to be able to get back to working on it until sometime this weekend. This bike is my primary means of transport. Sold my car and started taking bus/train to be more enviro friendly, but found I really needed something a bit more and wanted to go electric instead of gas. Since this was my first venture into ebike/scooter/moped I went with something cheap to figure out what I liked/didn't like. Found that I really liked this bike a lot and I have come to depend on it so much lol. Adrian and I are both learning a lot from this and greatly appreciate your time and advice. Guess I need to learn how to use a volt meter!

We'll post more after working through your troubleshooting advice.

Happy Summer Solstice!

mf70
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

I went with something cheap

Hee hee, the other crowd pops for a Vespa, and drops it off at the dealer when the tire pressure is low. Keeping a scoot going on your own is a significant life challenge, and the learning curve can seem long at times, but like all such efforts, it can have benefits on its own that you never would have expected.

Mark

roosterscooter
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Hi Mark,
Truth is if Vespa made an electric scooter, I would have splurged on one - but def would not be dropping it off at the dealer all the time lol. Been pestering Vespa on twitter about coming up with something electric. Supposedly they have one in the works but naturally they aren't saying much about it.

When I started shopping for an e-bike I quickly realized that there is almost nothing from an established and familiar company like Honda, etc. The chinese are way way wayyy ahead of everyone on this and since everything you can find now in the way of an e-bike comes from china anyway it didn't make sense to get anything but a chinese bike. TBH this e-bike was more than I expected - its been a real work horse and I have enjoyed it immensely - have all ready learned so much and looking forward to learning more. Wish I had found this forum sooner. Eventually I want to drive up in the drive way and plug it into a solar panel instead of an electrical outlet to charge it.

Appreciate your knowledge and willingess to share it.

Lisa

mf70
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Did you see this?

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/solar-vehicles/1486

Honda is coming out with a Honda EV-ne0 - being delivered in Europe right now: $6,000 US. I'll stick with my X-Treme for a while more.

MF

roosterscooter
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Did you see this?
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/solar-vehicles/1486

Had not seen that - thanks. LOVE the idea of putting the panel on the bike for charging. The newer panels are lightweight and flexible, but they are pricey. I have a portable fold-up solar panel for charging camera, cell, steri-pen and headlamp batts when backpacking. It works well and folds up small, but its not enough wattage to efficiently charge the e-bike. The next size up is though, so its all ready do-able, just waiting on the technology on the newer panels to drop in price before purchasing.

The other thing about purchasing a 'first model' e-bike is that like you, I'm not ready to drop 6k on a bike I KNOW I'll have to help them troubleshoot and work out bugs with - well MAYBE for a Vespa but nothing else haha. Agreed - wait until the technology is more stable, the model has been out and some of the bugs are worked out/design improvements are made, AND the price is at least half of what it is now. Around the District of Criminals area cheaper is better anyway because everything that's not chained down gets stolen. You know that gaudy bright pink xb-502? Almost bought that instead of blue because I knew it would cut way down on the chance of it being stolen.

roosterscooter
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Hey Mark, its Adrian, tested everything, all connections, from motor to battery, no resistance through wires. BUT, checked resistance and voltage through throttle tube, ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE Resitance was pen, and voltage was no where to be found. Brought it in to work today and got three more opinions about it, lol, just to make sure im not crazy, so I have come to the conclusion that the throttle tube assembly is bad, with all the other testing by default has checked out. But I do appreciate all the feedback and hopefully if some one has the same problem we did, our conversations hopefully will help them out. Thanks Mark

mf70
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Re: xtreme xb-502 not driving

Have you been following this thread? It seems to be "throttle week" at Visforvoltage!

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/10918-xb-600-throttle-problem#comment-59368

checked resistance and voltage through throttle tube, ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE Resitance was pen, and voltage was no where to be found.

To anticipate the info on the other thread, at the throttle, you should see a ground (black), a supply voltage (green, 5V or 12V?), and a signal voltage (red) carrying throttle position back to the controller. If you find the plug at the controller that leads to the throttle, you should have the save voltage levels there.

The Hall effect sensor is a transistor, not a potentiometer; there won't be any current flow without a supply voltage provided.

Mark

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