ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

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ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Finally the new hub has arrived

Hub QS

I installed the motor and correctly connected all the wires and although I have no doubt that the motor is correct, I receive an error from the controller and it does not work. I explain the problem:
When I move a bit the throttle, the engine spins at full speed for a couple of seconds and stops. The controller error LED blinks three times and that's all :(
I suppose I need to set new parameters in the controller but I do not know which ones.

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eRider Thunder 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
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ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Johnny J wrote:

I'm quite sure it needs to be an IXXAT and unfortunately they are quite expensive.. You don't need any other adapter just connect the IXXAT to the Can-high (Pin 13 or 16) and Can-low (Pin 24 or 27) on the Sevcon. They might already be connected to the PDT electronics in some way.

Where can I locate and identify the PDT electronics inside?

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Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

ratos wrote:
Johnny J wrote:

I'm quite sure it needs to be an IXXAT and unfortunately they are quite expensive.. You don't need any other adapter just connect the IXXAT to the Can-high (Pin 13 or 16) and Can-low (Pin 24 or 27) on the Sevcon. They might already be connected to the PDT electronics in some way.

Where can I locate and identify the PDT electronics inside?

Sorry, but I am not familiar with the PDT stuff..
Are you sure you have all the connections right with the motor-controller?
If it's a different manufacturer of the new motor the wires could be connected to different phases and/or hall sensors even if the colours match, there is no standard for this.
There are 36 different combinations and only 1 is right, one or more can cause the motor to act like yours and the controller doesn't get the right readings and cuts out. Other combinations can make the motor go in reverse and others the motor to stutter or lock up..

ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Johnny J wrote:

Are you sure you have all the connections right with the motor-controller?
If it's a different manufacturer of the new motor the wires could be connected to different phases and/or hall sensors even if the colours match, there is no standard for this.
There are 36 different combinations and only 1 is right, one or more can cause the motor to act like yours and the controller doesn't get the right readings and cuts out. Other combinations can make the motor go in reverse and others the motor to stutter or lock up..

Yes, in this case the colors match. Anyway I will try new combinations and see what happens. I hope not to damage the controller...
motor wires.jpg

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capitan3
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

hello what about your chinese motorcycles? aun las tienes? funcionan? encontré en alibaba una empresa efun que creo las fabrica, es buena inversion? si son durables? la autonomia que ofrecen si es real? mi pais colombia tiene mucha montaña, funciona bien el freno regenerativo? te agradezco me aconsejes un poco. gracias.
ahhh esta es la que quiero comprar: https://efun-ev.en.alibaba.com/product/867524794-215969130/9000W_T_max_electric_version.html?spm=a2700.8304367.prewdfa4cf.38.6d1...

ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

You were finally right Johnny; The colors did not match.
Based on your good advice, I have tried one by one the 36 combinations (twice) and I have verified that there are three of them that are correct. This result seems logical because depending on the name A, B or C assigned to the motor wires, I will find a combination for the HAL sensors. However the engine has little power and makes a strange noise when the throttle is released and the regenerative brake works.
I think it may be necessary to modify some parameters in the controller. I can not think of anything else.

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eRider Thunder 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 40AH battery

LeftieBiker
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

As I understand it, it's a bit like timing in an ICE engine, in that you can have combinations that are close, but are too "advanced" or "retarded" in Hall sensor "timing" for the motor to run properly. Did you try all three working combinations to see if one was ok? You probably did, but in case you skipped testing one...

Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Good! Mine also has a strange noise when releasing the throttle and the controller cuts the power if I apply power too quickly.
Haven't tried to tweak the parameters yet since it works fine if I'm accelerating slowly, will try to change the "Sine Wave Angle" some day..

ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

LeftieBiker wrote:

As I understand it, it's a bit like timing in an ICE engine, in that you can have combinations that are close, but are too "advanced" or "retarded" in Hall sensor "timing" for the motor to run properly. Did you try all three working combinations to see if one was ok? You probably did, but in case you skipped testing one...

In this case I have tried the three combinations with the same result.
I think you're right, it looks like there's a little gap with the HAL sensors.

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ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Johnny J wrote:

Good! Mine also has a strange noise when releasing the throttle and the controller cuts the power if I apply power too quickly.
Haven't tried to tweak the parameters yet since it works fine if I'm accelerating slowly, will try to change the "Sine Wave Angle" some day..

In my case besides the strange noise, the engine has much less power than the old engine.
In this video you can see a test where the noise is appreciated.
test
Is it the same as your motor?

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Johnny J
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

No, that's not the same noise at all, mine is more of a "whining" noise..
Have you asked the motor manufacturer if they have a Sevcon file for your motor?

ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Johnny J wrote:

No, that's not the same noise at all, mine is more of a "whining" noise..
Have you asked the motor manufacturer if they have a Sevcon file for your motor?

They tell me from "QS-motor", they are not familiar with the sevcon controller setup. However, I just asked them again if it would be possible to get a setup file for this engine. I hope they can help me in some way

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MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Here is a video that the original thread starter made for me which shows the normal whine that a properly setup Sevcon Gen whatever makes when driving an 8kW Quan Shun knock-off from former erider on the main stand. The only strange thing here is the regenning at max rpm:
ERider PDT 8000w motor

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My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

MEroller wrote:

Here is a video that the original thread starter made for me which shows the normal whine that a properly setup Sevcon Gen whatever makes when driving an 8kW Quan Shun knock-off from former erider on the main stand. The only strange thing here is the regenning at max rpm:
ERider PDT 8000w motor

Besides the noise, my engine does not push like the one above.
I can not edit the previous post to modify the video link to see it without downloading it (around 20 mb) so I put it here: Sevcon QS motor test

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MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

As Johnny wrote you most likely have a Hall switch-timing issue. No easy fix as you would have to invest into a programmer and or Sevcon software and the very steep learning curve. Have you ever scoured the endless sphere forum for such phenomena?

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My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

ratos
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

MEroller wrote:

As Johnny wrote you most likely have a Hall switch-timing issue. No easy fix as you would have to invest into a programmer and or Sevcon software and the very steep learning curve. Have you ever scoured the endless sphere forum for such phenomena?

I agree with you and Johnny about the problem.
I just started to gather information in the forum that you has recommended me so I thank you for your advice. I found interesting information there although I keep reading.
As for the software, that problem I have solved and I am looking for an inexpensive USB2CAN IXXAT driver. After I have all this, I'm sure more questions will come up.

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MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

ratos wrote:

As for the software, that problem I have solved and I am looking for an inexpensive USB2CAN IXXAT driver. After I have all this, I'm sure more questions will come up.

Only the expensive USB2CAN converters tend to work with controllers :-(

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My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

pcarlson1979
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

MEroller wrote:

Here is a video that the original thread starter made for me which shows the normal whine that a properly setup Sevcon Gen whatever makes when driving an 8kW Quan Shun knock-off from former erider on the main stand. The only strange thing here is the regenning at max rpm:
ERider PDT 8000w motor

Ha, that's my video :)

I'm interested in seeing how you go with the new motor because I too have that new motor and a tiny amount of throttle made mine go to 100% power and stay there! I have a sevcon adapater and I can plug into my scooter and I have all the software but have no idea what I'm doing in there.

Update on my scooter. It's now got over 30,000km now and nothing has gone wrong at all. It's winter here again and I still see it dip to 69v on the cold days but I can still accelerate fast enough for me. I had a headlight blow, a new front tire needed replacing, the speedo/ODO cable snapped and the buttons on my power meter no longer work. That's about it. I still ride it every, single, day to work and back. I'm just keeping my stock as I don't want to stuff anything up. I ran out of charge the other week. It went dead after 42.1Ah. So in the SIX YEARS I've owned it, my lithium batteries have lost 16% capacity. But it still serves me fine.

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eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS - 13 October 2012

"Scrappy" - Custom 48v Electric Dirtbike Conversion
20 Feb 2012: Bought 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM Motorcross Bike for $100
Motor: MARS ME0708
Controller: Alltrax AXE4844 400A controller
Battery: 16xCHL 50Ah LiFePo4 = 48v

MEroller
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Re: ERider 8000W scooter - Australia (similar to xm5000li)

Nice to hear from the originator of this thread again, and nice to hear your PDT erider is still riding fine, despite some age-related issues :-)

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My rides:
QvR vR one: a Swiss package of pure understatement - innocent and to some eyes (from some angles) exceedingly ugly looks, but with raw and hardly containable electron power up to real 95 to 100km/h! And a literally rock-hard suspension due to a carrying capacity of twice it's unladen weight... Now converted to more controllable and efficient brushless motor and vector-contoller.

E-Sprit Fury (basis is the Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Highly moded - but now in active retirement

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