Li Conversion in Melbourne

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Aircon
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Would whoever it was that contacted me regarding a conversion in melbourne please contact me again? I accidentally deleted the email thinking it was a PM and would still be available here.

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Aircon
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Joined: 12/23/2009
Points: 426
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

Aircon wrote:

Would whoever it was that contacted me regarding a conversion in melbourne please contact me again? I accidentally deleted the email thinking it was a PM and would still be available here.

Did anyone else hear from this chap? Maybe if you did, you can pass on his details to me? He's carrying out the conversions with 90ah batteries in Melbourne Australia, which sounded like an interesting prospect.

pcarlson1979
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Joined: 02/20/2011
Points: 459
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

90 Bloomin AMP-Hours!! Holy cow!

__________________

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS - 13 October 2012

"Scrappy" - Custom 48v Electric Dirtbike Conversion
20 Feb 2012: Bought 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM Motorcross Bike for $100
Motor: MARS ME0708
Controller: Alltrax AXE4844 400A controller
Battery: 16xCHL 50Ah LiFePo4 = 48v

antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
Points: 1599
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

120Ah is technically possible with using pouch cells (Lithium Polymer format), the real trick is in the packaging and finding a reliable source of cells that are the right shape

Even more is possible if using LiCo (or LiMn02) instead of LiFePO4

I would be very interested to hear how they're getting on fitting 90Ah :D

Eventually it will get to the stage where you can fit a battery with so much capacity, the Vectrix may actually overheat if rode at the full 68mph continuously (I had it happen once on my bike, but that was because I was doing hard acceleration then hard regen then hard acceleration as I was filtering)

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

yamez4u
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Joined: 01/30/2010
Points: 50
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

What has been the typical total cost of one of the 40/50 AH conversion batteries and kit?

antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
Points: 1599
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

yamez4u wrote:

What has been the typical total cost of one of the 40/50 AH conversion batteries and kit?

Total cost for the 40Ah cells + kit is ~$4000 (US$ or AUS$)

The 50Ah conversion is harder to say, only one person has done one, and you have to import the cells yourself

70Ah + kit should be under $7000

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

oobflyer
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Joined: 08/08/2008
Points: 367
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

I spent about $5,300 total for the 50AH conversion, but this includes paying an electrical engineer to help, and buying the tools, extra battery interconnects, etc. I bought the batteries from CHL in China ($2,800), plus sea-freight shipping to the U.S. ($600). I am pleased with the results.

the Vectrix may actually overheat if rode at the full 68mph continuously

What over heats? The electric motor? The motor controller? Would the fuse open the circuit before any damage is done?

antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
Points: 1599
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

oobflyer wrote:

the Vectrix may actually overheat if rode at the full 68mph continuously

What over heats? The electric motor? The motor controller? Would the fuse open the circuit before any damage is done?

Motorcontroller mostly, the heatsink warms up too much

Your battery probably isn't large enough to see that limitation

Mine (60Ah) is only capable of getting the heatsink warm enough for acceleration to begin to cut back, but then my battery is depleted.

Might see it a bit more with 70Ah cells on a long run, might have to wait and see....

Nothing gets damaged, so I wouldn't be too concerned

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

CO2
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Joined: 07/24/2011
Points: 110
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

In future, maybe we will have a lot of bike with 100ah....
In this moment in China, we have some new brand...i will wait....

Antiscab, you affirm: "the Vectrix may actually overheat if rode at the full 68mph continuously"...But how much time at 68mph?

antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
Points: 1599
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

CO2 wrote:

Antiscab, you affirm: "the Vectrix may actually overheat if rode at the full 68mph continuously"...But how much time at 68mph?

I would expect 45 minutes at 68mph or 51 miles

The IGBT module in the controller loses 500W when the battery is delivering 100A at full speed (at 136v or 13.6kw) continuously

Its max temp is 70 Deg C (IIRC).

The motor heats up more, but its just copper and its max temp is much higher

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

CO2
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Joined: 07/24/2011
Points: 110
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

45 minutes at 68mph... fantastic...
And temp of motor?

antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
Points: 1599
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

CO2 wrote:

45 minutes at 68mph... fantastic...
And temp of motor?

after 20 mins of 68mph, motor heatsink has hot enough to burn my hand, ambient temp was 5 deg C (it was winter)

I have only once gone for a ride for 35mins continuous 68mph (with my 60Ah cells), but didn't bother checking temps

My customer that is getting the 70Ah cells will do 30 mins continuous at 68mph everyday, he will be able to tell much more.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

CO2
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Joined: 07/24/2011
Points: 110
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

And what do you recommend to not damage the motor or controller?

antiscab
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Joined: 07/07/2007
Points: 1599
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

CO2 wrote:

And what do you recommend to not damage the motor or controller?

The Motor controller won't let you damage either itself, or the motor

Both have temp sensors in them that prevent damage

The only failure mode I have seen with the motor controller is where the phase wires have come loose

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

CO2
Offline
Joined: 07/24/2011
Points: 110
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

Of course, thanks.

And what about 70ah conversion? Do you have video in youtube?
This 70ah is big, no?
Size of batteries is problem...I think.
Maybe with the new A123 prismatic http://a123systems.com/Collateral/Images/English-US/AMP20.jpg is more easy but very §§§§...or try some Chinese copy...

LithiumVectrix
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Joined: 01/03/2012
Points: 78
Re: Li Conversion in Melbourne

Hi Aircon,
I contacted you about my Vectrix convered to Lithium. I have done a 60 Ahr and 90 Ahr conversion of Vectrix. I am using Li-Ion 18650 cells that are paralleled into 90 Ahr packs. 6 months operating and with no problems. I will start a seperate thread next week with more information.

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