7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC Custom Eletric Box

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KCvale
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I was going to go into detail about my new electric adult trikes but I have made 3 posts including my intro 15 days ago without a single reply to any of them so I don't see any reason to come back here again.
Apparently all the anti-spam works so well it just keeps everyone out.

Oh well, here's a couple parting pics of it and best of luck here.

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safe
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

This forum has been around since "the beginning" in 2006 or so...

It has a great "legacy", but the forum world for EV's is very fragmented now and many forums only accept a very narrow type of personality that fits their basic beliefs.

---------

I like multispeed electric bikes... I put 10,000 miles on my first one like that...

.

Chris V
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

You are a true craftsman. The bike has such a clean design that you don't even notice the power supply! I am new here and have good enthusiasm for all EV manifestations. I recently finished a project with my son , building an electric go cart with a PVC pipe frame, learning all the basics along the way. PM me if you would like to see a picture.

What is the voltage of your trike? Does it have a centrifugal clutch, gear box? What motor are you using -your "cruising" speeds?

Thanks
Chris V

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Chris V

LeftieBiker
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

This site can certainly be disappointing, but I don't remember seeing any posts about you or the trike. Can you tell us where they are? Those photos and the title you used this time are the kind of thing you need to post to get responses! Very nice work, although I'd suggest hard rubber padding between the U-bolt clamps and the frame, if it isn't there already.

KCvale
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

I posted my 36V Electric NuVinci Shifting Cadillac here, http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13432-960w-36v-nuvinci-shifting-cadillac-fleetwood-bicycle Man I loved that bike but it was converted to 2-stroke.
And a 'Hello from Phoenix, Arizona' topic below it.

The motor is a Cyclone-e-bikes 24-48V with a freewheel sprocket.
I don't put rubber between any motor and the fame gas or electric, I find it causes problems and I never have vibration problems, I use muffler clamps the exact size of the seatpost to secure it.

As you can see in my 3rd pic the motor connects directly to a pair of sprockets on the pedal cranks, the second sprocket connects to the 7-speed derailleur. You can also see the band brake on the drive axle, the left wheel freewheels.

The 'magic' part is that front sprocket pair do NOT connect to the crank shaft, they are bolted to the outside of a freewheel bearing the right pedal screws into. When the motor is driving the drive train the pedals just ratchet in place, when you pedal with the motor off the motor sprockets just ratchets too (no drag), and of course you can use both at the same time ;-}

I had the battery custom made and it is a monster.

The 36V battery consists of 120 2C NCM 4.2V Lithium cells, 12 parallel banks of 10 cells in series for 40A continuous (26.4Ah) or 1KW/h operation at full load and weighs 6kg (13.2 lbs).

The black steel box between the frame and basket is another custom made item, it has a flat plate and a shell that fits over it. The plate was secured to the bike frame and the components secured to it.

The 3 12V incandescent lights on the back of the box are just AutoZone trailer lights wired in series through a switch on the front of box across the 36V battery. They light up like a Christmas tree and after my first 1/2 hour test ride on a full charge I left them on for 25 hours and not only did the throttle say it still had a full charge I rode it for another 1/2 an hour and when I got back it still had a full charge!

I don't know have far will go but I'd say 30+ miles is a conservative guess with that monster of a power source and the advantage of the 7 gears, and that is no pedaling at all, in fact I can't remember ever pedaling it.

You may have noticed I put the charger in my custom box too and it looks perilously close to the front of the box, that is because it goes through the top cover.

Like most the 5A charger is smart. Just plug in a universal power cord and forget it, when the fan shuts off it's charged.

As my intro 'Hello from Phoenix' topic shows I have been building custom order gas MB's for 3 years but I am jumping in head first with my Universal Electric Shifting Conversion kit for sale.

That first one was a custom order and it shows but it gave me what I needed to make a small production run.
I posted this ad on Craigs to see if there was any interest and got a new local sale the next day.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/bid/3656508823.html

Sadly Kent discontinued the Bayside trike but I managed to score one more and found this alternative and ordered one of them too.

A Raktuen 24" Adult Tricycle Bicycle 6 Speed Trike
http://www.rakuten.com/prod/24-adult...ngId=262644488

Minimum order for the cases was 10 so I had no choice but order 10 but they will have all the cutouts and holes done perfect in production and I modified the box a bit to provide a weather proof cover for the charger out but otherwise I am in the deep water now, hopefully I'll avoid the sharks and swim to the shores of prosperity and make a of go this.
Wish me luck ;-}

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LeftieBiker
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

I remember seeing the post on the Fleetwood now, but didn't really have any questions about it. Nice bike, not my area of interest (although I do have an EZIP Trailz). You need to ask questions or actively solicit comments here if you want to get much interest, I'm afraid...

Lithium packs also aren't in my domain, but it looks to me like you have no Battery Management System. With a few rare exceptions, having a BMS is considered vital to getting long pack life with lithium cells because they tend to get out of balance with each other. If you do use a BMS as well as a charger, disregard what I just wrote. ;-)

As for the business end: upright trikes tend to be seen as 'Geezer Bikes', or transportation for people with physical disabilities, and not taken as seriously as recumbents - which in turn are seen as vehicles for Fanatics! This isn't fair but you should keep that in mind. Try marketing them to older, more affluent people who want to be able to ride locally in a stable, fun vehicle that will also let them exercise if they want and need to do so.

KCvale
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

LeftieBiker wrote:

Lithium packs also aren't in my domain, but it looks to me like you have no Battery Management System. With a few rare exceptions, having a BMS is considered vital to getting long pack life with lithium cells because they tend to get out of balance with each other.

Correct. The BMS is in the battery pack which at $62 separate makes the $500 delivered price of that battery if I buy 3 or more seem almost cheap.
Here are the specs for the BMS.
----
10S Li Ion Type BMS with 40A Continuous discharge current, fitted with 100V Mosfets, suitable for series connection, for 20S

Specification:

3 wire type, separate Charge and Discharge connection
Charge Voltage 42.0V
Charge Current 10A
Discharge Current 40A (continuous)
Protection Current >100A
Typical current consumption in standy mode, 15uA
balance current, 48mA
balance voltage, 4.18V
Overcharge protection Voltage, 4.2V
Overcharge recovery Voltage, 4.1V
Over-discharge protection Voltage, 2.75V
Over-discharge recovery Voltage, 3.0V

12AWG Discharge Cables
16AWG Charge Cable
108 * 60 * 12mm
~120g
----

Quote:

As for the business end: upright trikes tend to be seen as 'Geezer Bikes'...
Try marketing them to older, more affluent people who want to be able to ride locally in a stable, fun vehicle that will also let them exercise if they want and need to do so.

Exactly dead on correct, the boomers are ~80% of my market, with all but ~1% the disabled or otherwise 2-wheel challenged.

I live on the North Central end of Phoenix Arizona, to the North West a bit is the massive Sun City area, AKA 'retirement central', my 80 year old dad lives there and the minimum age to buy a house is 55.
A good 1/4 to 1/3rd of the households have a golf cart but they are pretty expensive to maintain, and unless you you use it to go golfing you don't get any exercise so I have a market, a nice one actually ;-}

Anyway I ramble, it just feels good to put my Certified Electronics Technician degree knowledge back to some fun use again and the funny part is things just haven't changed all that much in 30 years. Ohms law hasn't changed and transistor types and how they work hasn't changed. Take MOSFET's for example, we didn't just learn what they did and how to hook them, we learned what is inside them and how they actually worked inside so Ebikes was a breeze to pick up.

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LeftieBiker
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

It's good that you don't have a fast charger on the trike, in that hot climate. Nissan is finding (with the Leaf) that super-fast charging, plus a passively cooled pack, plus hot air temps, do *not* equal long battery pack life. Your setup should be fine, but if you can make the best use of the air flowing around that battery-BMS case, it wouldn't be a bad idea. The only other suggestion I can offer is that you either offer two versions, one with a big, multiple-LED headlight, turn signals, and maybe LED marker lights, or offer them as an accessory package. And of course if there isn't a brake light (I don't remember) it needs one of those as well.

KCvale
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

LeftieBiker wrote:

The only other suggestion I can offer is that you either offer two versions, one with a big, multiple-LED headlight, turn signals, and maybe LED marker lights, or offer them as an accessory package. And of course if there isn't a brake light (I don't remember) it needs one of those as well.

I have been using this light for the front of MB's for over a year now, love them, and included on the trike.

The battery pack has 4 LI 18650 4.2V (3.6) cells, a parallel set of 2 in series for ~8.4V and 4.4A for the 3-mode CREE T6 LED.
On high the thing will almost burn your retinas, medium works fine for 25MPH and will run longer, and it has an intense strobe mode. It is the strobe mode I like best, I don't ride in daylight without the strobe on and have repeatedly seen first hand the effect it has on drivers.

It mostly helps when someone is about to pull out or cross in front of you.
Typically a driver will glance and if they just see a bicycle they don't judge your speed and just go.
With a strobe they take a second glance and that is all it takes to realize you are flying along at 30MPH and slam on the brakes thus preventing you from slamming into them.

$40 delivered from Tmart.com and worth every cent.

Adding function to the rear is another story.
It is a 36V supply and 3 12V lamps in series with just an all on/all off switch.
That means I can't break out individual 12V function without a 12V source or regulator in between the supply and use the lights in parallel. That just isn't practical.

What I am going to try on this next one is just an automotive blinker module in the circuit to make all 3 blink when activated. For daylight riding it blinks but a brake makes it solid, and for night it is solid and blinks when you hit the brake.
Simple, cheap and effective don't you think?

The next 2 battery packs are 2 weeks out, 6-8 weeks for the cases but the 2 different trikes should be here soon.
More when there is more to add ;-}

KC

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LeftieBiker
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

I couldn't tell from the photo that you had such a bright headlight - no problems there! People like lights that look substantial, and I guess in appearance it's right on the margin, but once they use it they won't want another one. The brake light issue is more serious, though. If you can find a way to implement one, it will make the trikes more sale-able even in states where they can't be ridden outside the suburb. You might want to abandon the automotive lights and look for 36 volt LEDs...

KCvale
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

As mentioned earlier I scored the last Kent Bayside I could find and ordered a Rakuten 6-speed adult trike too, well the Rakuten arrived yesterday already and I was really surprised!

It arrived in 2 boxes opposed to the single gigantic box the Bayside came in.
The rear axle is not attached to the frame so it was just a small 2-wheel size box, and the other box had the two baskets.
It is one extra assembly step but much easier to manage!

On another note I got my invoice for my two new custom batteries and their chargers and the price changed...

Darn those pesky decimal places ;-}

Ever notice a decimal place is never misplaced the other way?
I would have loved $36 per battery and $4.25 per charger ;-}

Anyway I thought you'd get a laugh at that and it looks like next of the 2 trike build will be on the Rakuten trike and ahead of schedule.

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strawhistle
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

Hi, Do you have a web site? Are you selling those bikes ? How much for one with a lifepo4 battery and BMS ? what is the wattage of the motor? how fast does it go on the straight and flat ? How steep an angle does the trike climb with the motor alone ? I have a lot of questions before i invest in one for my shop !

adult stingray  spoiler 006.jpg

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strawhistle
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

It looks to me like you need a chain guard for the motor chain !

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LeftieBiker
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

Presumably the "1kw" in the title refers to the motor output. I'm going to hazard a guess, and say that a 1000 watt motor, coupled to a seven speed transmission, should at least have the capability to approach 30MPH (an unstable speed for a traditional trike), but is probably geared for about 18-23.

KCvale
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

strawhistle wrote:

Hi, Do you have a web site?

Yes I have a web site. KC's Kruisers http://KCsBikes.com which is my general web site for my Motorized Bike business.

Quote:

Are you selling those bikes?

I plan to market my 'Trike Kit, yes. I put a Craigs ad up for locals at a near cost price ($1995) to get enough capitol to purchase a couple of items I need to buy in bulk (10 minimum) before I am ready to go and that is 6-8 weeks out but retail will be about $2295.

Quote:

How much for one with a lifepo4 battery and BMS?

The battery specs are above. I am having them custom made in Hong Kong and massive overkill, but that was done to greatly extend the range and well, there was room ;-}
The maker puts total 'capacitance' at about 1KW/h but it won't be drawing anywhere near that, at 500W an hour you could ride wide open for 2 hours, that is a long ride in anyone's book.

Quote:

what is the wattage of the motor?

This is the motor and controller in the first prototype.

I am still using the same motor but changed to a 24-48V programmable Kelly Controller for these next 2.
That controller allows for all kinds of things beside voltage like max current

Quote:

how fast does it go on the straight and flat?
How steep an angle does the trike climb with the motor alone?

The way it is geared it tops out in 7th ~25MPH which was pointed out in another post plenty fast enough for a trike.
With the low gears it feels like it could climb an 8% grade with a keg of beer in the basket if you could keep it from popping a wheelie. Typical start gear is 3rd so it is not so torquey. The first time I tested it I had it in 1st and gave it about 1/2 throttle and it promptly popped a wheelie and instantly turned left pivoting on the freewheel left wheel and spinning me like a top, startling to say the least.

---
The next crucial job in the project is making a drawing with the exact measurements for every laser cutout, bend, and hole to be done in a 10 unit production run at the case factory. The object of course is to make it as compatible with as many parts and trikes as possible.

One thing I was considering was putting some vent slots in the bottom of the case like your home vent ducts to scoop air into the case at the front and exhaust in out in the back.
---

One last thing that was brought up was the charger rate, I went just 5A for the very reason mentioned, battery life. 5A is no trickle but with 120 cells (12 parallel banks of 10 series cells) that can output 50A 5A is a trickle to them.

I appreciate all you guys help and suggestions on this project, there is no such thing as too many suggestions ;-}

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LeftieBiker
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

With the low gears it feels like it could climb an 8% grade with a keg of beer in the basket if you could keep it from popping a wheelie. Typical start gear is 3rd so it is not so torquey. The first time I tested it I had it in 1st and gave it about 1/2 throttle and it promptly popped a wheelie and instantly turned left pivoting on the freewheel left wheel and spinning me like a top, startling to say the least.

You're going to want to stop *that* from happening to your customers! Since you're using a programmable controller it should be possible to limit what the motor gets fed at low speeds. For users who need the full low-end power output you could reprogram for them (and maybe make them sign a waiver!), and then add a wheelie bar. ;-)

KCvale
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

'Wheelie Bars', hehehe ;-}

Motor assisted or not Tricycles are a different beast, unless it has a posi-trak type differential your power wheel is not directly behind you and usually on the right side.

The only thing fighting the off-center drive force is your front wheel on the ground and you can feel it fighting to go left.
Unlike a 2-wheeler with the wheel behind you so you can just use balance to ride a wheelie you can't combat the difference on a trike so the operator simply needs to be aware of that.

I can easily lock out the 1st and 2nd big sprockets on the derailleur with an adjustment if need be but again it depends on the customer.

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tiny
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

K C I am a BIG fan of your ICE and electric motorized bicycle builds.
It took me over an hour of trying to Join, and then to log into V is for voltage !
I normally use Firefox with some protections. It just does not work here for me!

I had to use opera browser.

It still failed several times.
But I made it here finally.

Like I said I AM a fan of your builds .
Very few people can make money off of a building , and selling motorized bicycles like YOU do !

I actually looked at v is for voltage to see if they had any info about the surplus leaf batteries on ebay.
And I saw your post.

davew
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Re: 7-speed 1KW shifting Kent Bayside Adult trike my KC ...

Off topic, but I use Firefox exclusively on this site with both AdBlockPlus and NoScript and it works fine for me. Maybe there is a plugin you have that I don't. You can try disabling them all and then reintroduce them one at a time to find the culprit. You do have to allow/whitelist Javascript from visforvoltage.org.

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