Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

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Cyde
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Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Hi all,

Long time rider and occassional reader/post, and right now I have an issue.

State of my Bike:

Location : Melbourne
Model 2007 (red)
Batteries : Antiscab upgrade kit 6/2011
KM's 37970.9
Firmware : original

My current daily commute is ~46Km (round trip) + 6km (after work occasionally to the shops). I usually still have 3-4 bars left on the display after this. I have been doing this for over 6 months now. (prior to that my commute was 25km).

Previous known issues: the cable plug/connections string the BMS modules together have some times (a) unplugged or (b) through movement(stop/start) have broken from the solder joint. I simpled opened and replugged/resoldered (for safety I disconnected anderson connectors before solder/reconnecting BMS cables then attach light/reconnected anderson's).

Current issue:

I was on my way home and just turned onto Ballarat Rd getting up to 70km/r (its speed limit in that zone), when all of a sudden I had no response from throttle. I pulled over and turned off/on. Red Battery light (solid), and BUSVLT error. However the battery meter still shows 10 bars.

(I got a tow home).

Subsequent tests/diag:

turn on the bike with the stand down, no error (but Red battery light on). Once kick stand is up, and "Go" mode enaged, BUSVLT error occurs.
I have not plugged the bike into charge (unsure what that might do).

Thinking it might be a bolt that worked loose, I have opened it up, but cant see/feel/test any bolts loose. (I have only checked the top visible row, its a bugger to get the lower 2nd half).

I have not pulled out my CANBus cable or the diag software yet (I have both), but plan to do this, this week after work (depending on how tired I am) or on the weekend.

Any idea's of where I should look in the diag software, or hard issues I shall look at?

Also I posted in the Australia Support thread, if they have heard if the new Australia reseller supports (or will support) the original VX-1's.

-Randy

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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

The message says: Battery under safe voltage. Check the voltage of the battery, And careful, voltages above 50v can kill, use protection gloves.

antiscab
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

I would start by plugging in to charge, so you can see what the actual battery voltage is

if the actual battery voltage is low (less than 130v) than most likely the guage has lost accuracy (still happens with the original firmware when the extra charge put into the battery at end of charge doesn't keep up with actual self discharge of the bike)

If that is the problem, you could update the firmware to a lithium version I have

regards,
Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

R
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

The message says: Battery under safe voltage. Check the voltage of the battery, And careful, voltages above 50v can kill, use protection gloves.

Joshteacher
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Wow, this is weird, it happened to me for the first time today too. The bars tend to not reflect real state of charge, so I need to run it to red about once a week to get a real charge. Today is the first time I saw the BUSVULT error. I'm still on NIMH cells. Any risk of short-term issues?

Cyde
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Joined: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 - 03:59
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Well thanks for the advice.

I plugged it in and it started charging. At the end when the 5 min count down with the speedo at 10km's the figures read:

Left display 143
19 oC
Middle Display reads EC 154
Right Display shows all bars present.

And the red warning light is still on.

-Randall

antiscab
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

the fact that it would still charge would rule out the battery as being the problem - although 143v isn't fully charged

for motorcontroller firmware versions 1014b and older, red battery light means the motor controller is operating in low voltage limit (IIRC)
for versions 1017 and newer, red battery light means the voltage was below 115v, while power was below a number I can't remember for a certain amount of time.

since the red battery light is on after what the bike thinks is a full charge, it will likely be irrelevant which firmware version is actually loaded.

during charge, the voltage reported on the dash is measured by the charger

I would be interested to know what voltage the motor controller is measuring. if the firmware is new enough, this can be done by using the kill switch and right brake lever (or it might be the left, it's been a long time since I've used that feature)

alternatively, you can view it using the diagnostic software and can bus cable

out of curiosity - are you still able to ride the bike, even with the red battery light on?

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

marylandbob
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

You MIGHT be the victim of a defective battery temperature/voltage sensor harness!--The stock sensors(2008) were not adequately sealed/coated from moisture, and with time, can fail causing erroneous voltage/temperature readings. The NEW harnesses have been improved, I am replacing mine, after the originals failed.

Robert M. Curry

Cyde
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Okay. sorry for not getting back soon. Real life has that knack of interrupting projects/repairs.

I pulled out my CANBus cable/software and got the diag's pulled. I have the screen shots of the firmware version tab, the summary tab and Memory tab. Is it okay to post such screen here?

Also, with regards to the previous post about the voltage sensor harness, do you have any more details on that/how to do it, where to get parts (or if complicated, who can do it?). Also what symptoms did you notice when this started dieing or died?

Details from bike standing still powered up. Charge on dash shows full bars.

Details about the versions are:

ICM REV 1004
Instrument Cluster REV D
Battery Charger REV 2012
Motor Controller REV 114B
Battery Monitor REV 1003
Battery Monitor REV 1003

Details of summmary:

Total distance: 37970.0km
Total hours 256
Total bus voltage 141 V

Ambient temps read between 11.1C and 16.3C (calibration temp's 1.7C)

Motor Controller Status:
VPE only green, all rest are white
MC Temp 15C
Cap Temp 1 14C
Cap Temp 2 15C
Cap Temp 3 14C
Bus Volt 103V
Bus Current 0A

-Randy

antiscab
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Since you have a can bus adapter the temp sensors are irrelevant, they can be removed an thrown away if need be, but I don't think that is where the problem is....bv

Motor Controller Status:
VPE only green, all rest are white
MC Temp 15C
Cap Temp 1 14C
Cap Temp 2 15C
Cap Temp 3 14C
Bus Volt 103V
Bus Current 0A

-Randy

That narrows the problem down to your motor controller.

Here's a few possibilities:

1)There is a specific circuit on the motor controller that does two things: measures the voltage across the caps on the motor controller board, and checks to make sure none of the capacitor fuses are blown

It's basically a voltage divider (a few resistors) and an op-amp

one of those components is out of spec (probably the op-amp) or is no longer soldered down properly (cracked solder join)
I'll have to get a picture of a motor controller to point out where the components are..

2) The IGBT has burnt out at one of the terminals, causing the ~40V drop

3) The main fuse has partially blown (a very rare failure mode)

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

bm3
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

I agree to Matt.
You should concentrate on the controller. Voltage shown to you is to low.
During charging everything seems to be ok so with the MC seems anything not to be ok.
Besides the points Matt wrote already here there happend already some cases of loose terminal screws at Vectrix Controllers with high kilometrage or milage.
In my opinion latest between 30000 and 40000 km of kilometrage one should take a look at all power terminal screws of the MC.
Maybe yours got already hot.

Klaus

Cyde
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Okay. finally got some time to get the batteries out, and get to the MC.

started to take of the metal shield, but found I didn't have the right spanner/socket for the nuts for the power cable posts.... But did observe the following which I am guessing is my Problem. or Cause.

What do you all think? Dead board and time to replace or can it be repaired(Effort?)? Black is not a trendy color for electronics.

IMG_20130602_134148.jpg

bm3
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

well, on the first view I see some chances to repair it.
The board must be taken out of the scooter, cleaned and taken a look at the terminals and than new soldered.
Our member Mik posted already some experiences with this problem here.

greetings

Klaus

ofx210p
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

I have just received a revised canbus monitor (From Galago) that whilst powered up cycles through 3 different screens. It always shows voltage and current (instantaneous), another screen is aH used and distance per Ah calculations etc.

However the reason for this post is that it give the temperatures of the motor controller and the three capacitors as well. it does this about every 20 seconds.

Obviously hindsight is 20:20 however I'm wondering if you owned one of these, that this would have given you advanced warning of temperatures around the board going skyhigh as the burning/arcing on the board heated up nearby components.

As this seems to be a more common problem as the bikes age. I am certainly going to be watching temps on this system. Cap1 Cap2 and Cap3 are constantly displayed and from what i can see cap1 is always hotter than 2 or 3 but only by a degree or two.

I don't work for galago but i certainly would recommend this product, obviously firstly because of the above, secondly with the instantaneous amperage usage it allows me to ride the bike judicially with knowlege of what i am pulling out of the pack at any time !

Hope this helps Cheers Chris

ofx210p
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Last seen: 8 years 1 month ago
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Points: 377
Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

I have just received a revised canbus monitor (From Galago) that whilst powered up cycles through 3 different screens. It always shows voltage and current (instantaneous), another screen is aH used and distance per Ah calculations etc.

However the reason for this post is that it give the temperatures of the motor controller and the three capacitors as well. it does this about every 20 seconds.

Obviously hindsight is 20:20 however I'm wondering if you owned one of these, that this would have given you advanced warning of temperatures around the board going skyhigh as the burning/arcing on the board heated up nearby components.

As this seems to be a more common problem as the bikes age. I am certainly going to be watching temps on this system. Cap1 Cap2 and Cap3 are constantly displayed and from what i can see cap1 is always hotter than 2 or 3 but only by a degree or two.

I don't work for galago but i certainly would recommend this product, obviously firstly because of the above, secondly with the instantaneous amperage usage it allows me to ride the bike judicially with knowlege of what i am pulling out of the pack at any time !

Hope this helps Cheers Chris

Cyde
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Well I bit the bullet a few weeks ago, and purchased a new replacement board for Vectrix International. It arrived yesterday, and the final cost was just under AU$2100.

At this point I am preparing to disconnect the original board, and put the new one in (it is a REV N, some differences). Reason I haven't disconnected it yet, as I wanted to do it at the same time (to insure I don't forget which cables go where)

I have the new firmware for board/charger from Vectrix, and the calibration instructions for the motor to MC. (takes all of 2 minutes).

My problem at this point is - What is the best (or worst/avoid) heat paste I should use on the bottom of the MC, (how?scrap?wash?) should I clean any existing paste from the bike before putting new MC on and how much should I use (and how to apply?Spread?). If some one who has done it before, and has a video/youtube that would be the best solution to reference.

Regards
LasiniR

ofx210p
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

Ok - considering you have spent a considerable amount of money you might want to contact vectrix for their "recommended" choice.

Other than this - just makesure you get a good quality thermal paste (personally i prefer the non metalic types when there are a circuit board component side) otherwise the key thing is to ensure even coverage and this can be checked by applying and quick dismantle to check coverage before reapplying.

Obviously i'm not a professional although i've dealt with a fair amount of thermal paste situations in the past. I've even seen times where people sand the surfaces of both parts until smooth ensureing a complete and perfect mating surfaces.

Hope this helps.

Mik
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

What are you going to do with the old board?

And do you have an ICL to reconnect the battery?

Mik

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Cyde
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

by an ICL do you mean a light bulb (incandecent) that I connect in series with the battery for 8-10 seconds and (after it glows and fades) before I complete the battery connection with the anderson plugs?

I am only guessing you mean that, which was what came with my antiscab's battery upgrade kit.

No idea about what I will do with the old board, until I have the new board in and all is working.

-Cyde

Mik
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Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

by an ICL do you mean a light bulb (incandecent) that I connect in series with the battery for 8-10 seconds and (after it glows and fades) before I complete the battery connection with the anderson plugs?

I am only guessing you mean that, which was what came with my antiscab's battery upgrade kit.

No idea about what I will do with the old board, until I have the new board in and all is working.

-Cyde

Yes, ICL = Inrush Current Limiter.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

antiscab
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Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: Unknown issue with BUSVLT error

My problem at this point is - What is the best (or worst/avoid) heat paste I should use on the bottom of the MC, (how?scrap?wash?) should I clean any existing paste from the bike before putting new MC on and how much should I use (and how to apply?Spread?). If some one who has done it before, and has a video/youtube that would be the best solution to reference.

Regards
LasiniR

I don't know if this stuff is the best or worst, but this is what I normally use:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NM2011

I normally wipe all the old stuff off with paper towel or a rag, then apply the new stuff

doesn't matter so much if you put too much on, as it just squeezes out the sides when you tighten the bolts down

Matt

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km

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