I advocate the Re-Classification of Ebikes

Comparing the US to Australia on this topic will be difficult. With the exceptions of a couple of cities ebikes in the US are largely unregulated and what regulations do exist are almost never enforced. So moving from an unregulated environment to any sort of regulation would be unpopular with us Yanks.

Two hundred watts? I've got more than that in my toothbrush!

"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"

Maybe you should check your regulations a little more carefully..

http://amherstebikes.com/regulations.htm

"US Laws & Regulations
US Consumer Product Safety Council
Under US PL107-319 passed on December 4, 2002 jurisdiction over the requirements for electric bicycles was moved from the US Department of Transportation to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission. A copy of that law and the US CPSC requirements for them can be read using the links below.
US CPSC Requirements for Bicycle (click here- requires Acrobat Reader)
Public Law 107-319 Requirements for Low Speed Electric Bicycles (click here- requires Acrobat Reader)

The United States Department of Transportation has defined an electric bicycle as any bicycle or tricycle with a low-powered electric motor weighing under 100 pounds, with a top motor-powered speed not in excess of 20 miles per hour. [12], under section 1202, under the definition of 'Electric Bicycle'. For further clarification, the weight restriction applies only to the motor, not the curb weight of the vehicle."

According to the site above

"At the present time virtually all state laws in the US are harmonized with the new federal regulations."

this means that if your ebike can go past 20 miles an hour in the US then it is not classified as a bicyle which would also mean that you cannot ride it where you would normally ride a bicycle (i.e. bike paths and sidewalks etc)

im not sure about US law but in AUS that also means you must register the ebike as a motor vehicle .. which ofcourse means you have to pay an annual registration fee and 3rd party ensurance..

yes its true that these laws aren't enforced in anywhere really..

but legally it leaves one open to the charge of driving an unregistered motor vehicle, driving an unroadworthy motor vehicle (because it doesn't have indicators etc) and driving an uninsured vehicle..

I know from experience here atleast that it cost me $1000 AUD when I got cought when my car was accidentally unregistered.

so from a technical law point of view the mere fact that the Legislation does not acknowledge these more powerful custom built ebikes as "bicycles" means that we are all at risk..

hence why I am advocating some kind of review for these laws.. both here and in the US..

canada it would seem is the most liberal of the western countries about ebikes..

and I totally agree.. 200W is enough to dry your hair.. but really not enough to power any kind of bicycle.. they arrived at the figure because mechanically a 50cc engine is comparable to a 200W of power. the laws were written well before Ebikes were even viable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws

here are more details on the ebike laws for US states and canada aswell as some parts of the world..

almost all of the US states conform to the federal limit of 20 MPH (some 25MPH)..
once your bike is capable of more than that.. its no longer considered a bicycle.

california seems to be the most liberal of the US states they have a 1000W motor capacity but still a 20MPH speed limit.

my point in the initial post was.. to advocate any power assisted bicycle that cannot go faster than an athlete to be classified as a real "bicycle".. and to be of no more a risk than any other form of bicycle. that in my mind would put the speed limit closer to 35/40 mph.. here in AUS we dont have a speed limit at all.. but how fast do you think you could go on a 200W engine ?????

probably about the speed of an old man jogging..

I know about the federal laws, but compared with other vehicles ebikes have very little regulation. The effect of the federal law is only limit the finished bikes that can be sold. Kits don't suffer from this which is why so many ebikes are sold in kit form. (Honestly, judge, I had no idea he was going to put that motorized bicycle wheel on a bicycle.) Even so, 20 mph unassisted is not much of a limitation for a bike. This means 25 mph or so assisted which is plenty fast enough. America has nothing as nearly onerous as that 200W restriction. Colorado DMV thought they had a law that applies to ebikes, but the statute they pointed me to specifically said "wheels 13 inches or less." That law is aimed at kid's toys, not ebikes.

My second point is the more important. What laws do exist are almost never enforced. In the years I have been hanging in various forums (fora?) I have only heard of two incidents: some people being hassled in NYC and on a specific set of bike paths somewhere in the northwest... maybe Canada? And in these cases there was nothing mentioned about motor size or top speed just motorized versus non-motorized.

It's a bummer if a law is keeping good ebikes of the market. Changing that law would be a good idea. Once you have a bike, though, what laws do exist can safely be ignored. No, I'm not advocating anyone break the law, but like going 1 mile per hour over the speed limit if this is the biggest worry in your life then you are truly blessed.

"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"

Great - that's all we need - lawyers chasing silent vehicles. Sheesh!

Too quiet? What? Isn't that supposed to be one of the added benfits of electric vehicles?

The point is valid (to an extent) at slower speeds, but kind of moot at higher ones. I don't know about you, but most of what I hear coming from a car doing 30+ is turbulence and tire noise. Of course there are those occasional "hot rodded" cars with a loud (or no) muffler, which is kind of funny the first couple of times you see some crap car like that.

...

Freakin' gangsters...

The author of this post isn't responsible for any injury, disability or dismemberment, death, financial loss, illness, addiction, hereditary disease, or any other undesirable consequence or general misfortune resulting from use of the "information" contained herein.

usatracy I think you missunderstood what I was trying to say..

I wasn't advocating a speed limit on electric powered vehicles.

I was advocating the re-classification of a "power assisted bycicle".

Its true there aren't any laws which govern how fast you can build an EV..
however..

many states in the US and in many parts of western the world in general the kind of "ebike" you are talking about are not classified as "power assisted bycicles" rather they are classified as a "moped"

mopeds have a very different set of rules applied to them and in many cases they must be "Registered" and driven by a licensed driver.

It no point was I advocating ANY speed restrictions on mopeds.
quite simply I was advocating a relaxation on the laws regarding the classifation of a "power assisted bycicle"

I'll tell you why this is important.

Many states, towns, countries have laws and rules regarding where a Bicycle can be ridden and where they cannot.

For example.. most places would agree that its not legal to ride a "vehicle" on the sidewalk, or on a bushwalking trail, or a bycicle path or through parks etc..

Some freeways ban the use of bicycles on freeways etc.

I would like to take davew's point about the different state regulations on "WHERE" you can and cant ride EVs.

but the classification of what IS a "bicycle" and what is "not a bicycle" is quite clearly marked in federal legislation.

now to take daves argument to the extreme.. if I buy myself a bicycle and then put wings on it and then a jet engine.. this is cleary no longer a "bicycle".. Now clearly you cannot take that kind of machine and drive it up and down the highway without a permit of some kind no matter where you are.. (unless your on private property)

the same goes for Ebikes.. if you take a bicycle and MOD it past the specifications of a "bicycle" or a "power assisted bicycle" then at law it is no longer classified as a bicycle.

I'll give you an example of what I am talking about from the state of Oregon.
This is from the DMV so I am not making this up.

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/vehicle/pocketbike_factsheet.shtml

"Q: What about scooters, mopeds, electric assisted bicycles and personal mobility devices?
A: Some of these vehicles are legal in some situations if they meet the specific definitions and restrictions in Oregon law. Also, riders must be at least 16 years old and not have driving privileges suspended or revoked."

"Q: Which motor-assisted scooters, mopeds, electric assisted bicycles and personal mobility devices are legal on public roads in Oregon?
A: To be legal on Oregon public roads, they must fit one of the definitions in the state’s laws.

Riders must be at least 16 years old.

Use of these vehicles also may be restricted in cities, counties, parks, bike lanes, crosswalks, sidewalks and other locations and situations.

Mopeds must be titled and registered, but Oregon law specifically exempts motor-assisted scooters, electric assisted bicycles, and personal mobility devices from title and registration requirements.

A motor-assisted scooter:

* is designed to be operated on the ground with not more than three wheels;
* has handlebars and a foot support or seat;
* can be propelled by human or motor;
* has a motor capable of propelling it no faster than 24 miles per hour on a level road; and
* has a motor no bigger than 35 cubic centimeters or, if electric, has a power output of no more than 1,000 watts.

(ORS 801.348)

A moped:

* is designed to be operated on the ground upon wheels;
* has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;
* is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground;
* is equipped with an independent power source that is capable of propelling the vehicle, unassisted, at a speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on a level road surface; and if the power source is a combustion engine, has a piston or rotor displacement of 35.01 to 50 cubic centimeters regardless of the number of chambers in the power source; and
* is equipped with a power drive system that functions directly or automatically only and does not require clutching or shifting by the operator after the system is engaged.

A bicycle equipped with a power source may be classed as a moped if it meets all the moped requirements and also does not meet either the definition of an electric assisted bicycle as defined in ORS 801.258 or a motor assisted scooter as defined in ORS 801.348.

(ORS 801.345)

An electric assisted bicycle:

* is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels;
* has a seat or saddle for use of the rider;
* is designed to travel with not more than three wheels in contact with the ground;
* has both fully operative pedals for human propulsion and an electric motor; and
* is equipped with an electric motor that has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts and is incapable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of greater than 20 miles per hour on level ground.

(ORS 801.258)

An electric personal mobility device:

* is self-balancing on two nontandem wheels;
* is designed to transport one standing person;
* has an electric motor; and
* has a maximum speed of 15 miles per hour.

(ORS 801.259)"

As you can see there the legislation clearly defines what IS a "Power Assisted Bicycle" and what is NOT.

This is the important FACT under Oregon State law

"A bicycle equipped with a power source may be classed as a moped if it meets all the moped requirements and also does not meet either the definition of an electric assisted bicycle as defined in ORS 801.258 or a motor assisted scooter as defined in ORS 801.348."

And here are the rules governing a MOPED in that state.

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/driverid/moped.shtml

Now in Oregon as my example you must register a Moped and have plates in order to drive this on the road.

Can you see now why I am advocating the changing of the classification of what is a "Power assisted Bicycle"

To finish I would like to take up davews point again that the laws are rarely enforced (this would be mainly due to the lack of education and other priorities of traffic police).. but as you can see clearly from my examples that in the state of Oregon at least there are clearly defined laws on what constitutes a bicycle and where you can ride them..

"And in Virginia we would fight the designation of our ebikes as not being subject to International classification because they are not truely "non polluting vehicles" when the operator providing the power, the powerplant, is in fact producing methane gas in unknown amounts that vary between vehicle operators and methane is a greenhouse gas which damages the ozone. Therefore our ebikes would be considered non-carbon based low emissions vehicles."

And this one is for you tracey the laws in your own state as stated from your own governments website.

"Mopeds, Electric Power-assisted Bicycles, and Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices

Mopeds, Electric Power-assisted Bicycles, and Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices
Generally the laws for the operation of mopeds, electric power-assisted bicycles, and electric assistive mobility devices are similar to the operation of bicycles.
"Moped" means every vehicle that travels on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground that has (i) a seat that is no less than 24 inches in height, measured from the middle of the seat perpendicular to the ground and (ii) gasoline, electric, or hybrid motor that displaces less than 50 cubic centimeters. Moped operators must be at least 16 years old and must carry some form of identification that includes name, address, and date of birth. A moped is considered a vehicle while operated on a highway. Mopeds can not be ridden on sidewalks or bike paths. Some localities in Northern Virginia may impose restrictions on the operation of mopeds. Localities can require additional safety equipment for moped operation.

"Electric power-assisted bicycle" means a vehicle that travels on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground and is equipped with (i) pedals that allow propulsion by human power and (ii) an electric motor with an input of no more than 1,000 watts that reduces the pedal effort required of the rider. Operators must be at least 14 years old or be under the supervision of someone at least 18 years old. An electric power-assisted bicycle shall be considered a vehicle when operated on a highway.

"Motorcycle" means every motor vehicle designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground and is capable of traveling at speeds in excess of 35 miles per hour. The term "motorcycle" does not include any "electric personal assistive mobility device," "electric power-assisted bicycle," "farm tractor," "golf cart," "moped," "motorized skateboard or scooter," "utility vehicle" or "wheelchair or wheelchair conveyance" as defined in this section.

"Motor-driven cycle" means every motorcycle that has a gasoline engine that (i) displaces less than 150 cubic centimeters; (ii) has a seat less than 24 inches in height, measured from the middle of the seat perpendicular to the ground; and (iii) has no manufacturer-issued vehicle identification number.

“Motorized skateboard or scooter" means every vehicle, regardless of the number of its wheels in contact with the ground, that (i) has no seat, but is designed to be stood upon by the operator, (ii) has no manufacturer-issued vehicle identification number, and (iii) is powered by an electric motor having an input of no more than 1,000 watts or a gasoline engine that displaces less than 36 cubic centimeters. The term "motorized skateboard or scooter" includes vehicles with or without handlebars, but does not include "electric personal assistive mobility devices."

An electric personal assistive mobility device is a self-balancing two-nontandem-wheeled device that is designed to transport only one person and is powered by an electric propulsion system that limits the device's maximum speed to fifteen miles per hour or less. Such devices must be equipped with a system that will enable the user to bring the device to a controlled stop. These devices may be operated on highways with a maximum speed limit of 25 miles per hour or less if no sidewalk is provided or if use of the sidewalk is prohibited. Operators must be at least 14 years old or under the supervision of a person who is at least 18 years old. An electric personal assistive mobility device is considered a vehicle when operated on a highway."

http://www.vdot.virginia.gov/programs/bk-laws.asp

Now it would appear that in virginia the classifications for Ebikes are rather muddied..

if it goes has upto 1000W of power then its an "Electric power-assisted bicycle" if it has an engine of 50cc or less then its a "Moped".. if it has more than 1000W of power and goes faster than 25MPH then its a ???

looks like someone was drunk when they wrote the legislation in Virginia..

A high powered ebike would not fall under any definition under that legislation.. but is clear that it would fall into a category above "Moped" and Below "Motor-driven cycle"

Now I am fully aware that you have more chance of being pulled over and arrested smoking a joint in the US than you would riding your lovely new 1500W ebike down the highway.. but it doesn't change the fact that the legislation in many areas (including the US) has not quite caught up with the times..

I have never seen anyone here get a fine for riding a bicycle without a helmet.. yet it has been illegal for more than 15 years..

So Again I would like to touch on davew's point.. that I am not trying to scare people into obeying the LAW.. i'm merely pointing out that we all take a certain amount of legal risk when riding our lovely new ebikes out on the open road and that it would be nice if the laws were re-written to encourage the use of ebikes rather than discourage it.

Dear alphi, I was truly suprised to hear that the limit in Aus was 200W. Laws don't always make sense, for instance...

In the state of Utah its allowed to have a truck pulling 3 trailers at 75 MPH, now in that environment we find that: you cant design and build a new high-mileage car unless it has air-bags, heavy crash reinforcements, and passes all the safety crash regs, but...

I can drive a 250cc motorcycle on the freeway without a helmet...

If we look we can find quirky laws in every state or country that just don't make sense. If someone in Aus wanted to register a 500W E-bike as a moped, how much is the registration/license/and insurance?

Plus, whats the highest power an E-moped can go before its kicked up to the next highest classification? (I'm assuming that it would be "electric motorcycle" with turn signals, brake lights, etc? perhaps 1,000 Watts?)

PS, visited Perth in 1981, lovely town, friendly people.