Looking for a controler

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cars4fun2001
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Hy guys I am new here found the site while doing a search. I am looking for a high voltage brushless sensorless controler. Need to be able to handle 120 volts at the least and more would be better. It also needs to be rated for at least 200 amps.

Thanks in advance for the help

Mike

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ruprek
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Re: Looking for a controler

I just bought a Kelly controller which is brushless and rated at 150 amps. I am pretty sure they now make one that will go 120 volts. Pretty good people to work with if there is a problem. I got an e-mail response within two hours- twice! Reasonably priced compared to other controllers.Good luck!

cars4fun2001
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Re: Looking for a controler

thanks for the relpy. I have looked at them but was unsure if they where sensorless. I guess I will sut them a email. I would really like to find one that is rated for a bit more voltage but I just dont think it is out there.

Mike

cars4fun2001
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Re: Looking for a controler

What do you guys think about useing a prius inverter?

Mike

antiscab
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Re: Looking for a controler

Hi Mike,

what type of motor are you planning on running?
i think the only motor type that can be run open loop is induction.

what are you planning on putting this motor/controller combination on?

you could try danfoss or any other industrial motor controller. They all do open loop control.
they also all take 600v or more.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

cars4fun2001
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Points: 11
Re: Looking for a controler

Matt I am working with a alternator. I have it up and running on rc grade esc's "speed controler's"

It is going on this

These photo's where taken during construction. It has been finished with rear fender, lights, everything else and registered and inspected. I have put around 1000 miles on it with the brigs.
I have pulled the 16hp brigs v-twin off. My testing with the alternator is showing very promising but I need a high volt speed control.

Mike

antiscab
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Points: 1598
Re: Looking for a controler

ah, this could be easier than i thought.
are there brushes for the armature?
if yes you can treat this as a DC motor and use just about any DC controller.

i need to know a couple of things.
measure the resistance of the armature and field windings.
what was the alternator rated to originally (volts and amps).

you will probably find that you have to wire this motor as either a shunt or a sepex.
most alternators are designed so that a small amount of current is pushed through the armature, and a large amount of current is drawn from the field coils via a rectifier bridge.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

cars4fun2001
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Points: 11
Re: Looking for a controler

Quote:

are there brushes for the armature?

Yes

Quote:

measure the resistance of the armature and field windings.

I have everything hooked up at this time and don't really want to disconnect things unless I really need to.

Quote:

what was the alternator rated to originally (volts and amps)

12 volt system but they normally put out around 14.4 140 amps. I have read reports that they can be used to produce 130 volts.

Right now I have a brushed esc connected to the armature and a brush-less esc to the stator. For my intentions I need to retain control of both of these fields. So that means I will be running 2 speed control's. All of the original regulator has been removed. I mounted it up on the bike tonight to test things a bit harder and it works great. I am not having any start up issues. I am only running it off of 24 volts and I am still controlling it with rc esc and my air plane radio gear. It will spin the tire with out any cogging but I don't know if I have the gonads to try and ride it like that but I have been thinking about it. Just a short trip down my dirt road. I need to finish up the mount before I do much else.

please forgive my ignorance but please explain the reason that I may have to rewire the motor. It appears to be working great the way I have things set up. I ran it for about 5min will spinning the tire "on the ground" and holding the front brake but every thing other then the brush-less esc was ice cold. I am pushing the brush-less esc a bit as it is rated for 6s lipo and 70 amps. The amps is not a issue but the voltage is.

Mike

P.S. I thought I should add that this Alternator is just for testing on this bike. Once I get everything working the way I want I intend to change things over to a production bike and use a lager Alternator like the 36 or 48 volt off of a bus or tractor. I would like to be able to transfer most of the components over and not have to buy a new controler.

antiscab
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Points: 1598
Re: Looking for a controler

sorry it took me so long to come back to this.
it took be a while to get my head around why you would need a brushless controller for a brushed motor.

have you had a look at the voltage wave form on an osciliscope?
if not, and you dont have one, do you have any analogue voltmeters floating around?
if you do, use it to measure the voltage on the motor side for the brushless motor controller.

im pretty sure you dont need a brushless controller as one of the controllers in a sepex (which im pretty sure how you wired it) setup.
the brushes and the commutator should change the polarity on the armature at the right times to run as a motor.
it just so happens that if you dont hook up hall sensors to some brushless controllers, they behave just like a brushed motor controller.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

cars4fun2001
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Joined: 08/08/2008
Points: 11
Re: Looking for a controler

thats cool.

Little difernt setup then what you are thinking. I figured that was the track you where going down. It is infact running off the blc the bldc controles throttle, starting and stoping. The stator coils are 3phase. The field coils or armuture is just 2 phase and it nevery changes polarity. The north and south pols never change on it as there is no brake in the comature.

Sorry I have around 10 dvom a couple of witch ar vhv but no swing meter scope. I would be glad to get some better photos to night when I get home.

Please explain this.

Quote:

just so happens that if you dont hook up hall sensors to some brushless controllers, they behave just like a brushed motor controller.

does this mean that some controlers will run with out the hall effect sensors. To be honest I dont mind adding them but I dont know how to go about timming it.

thanks Mike

frodus
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Re: Looking for a controler

Quote:

it took be a while to get my head around why you would need a brushless controller for a brushed motor.

Because they're not brushes for an armature, they're slip rings/brushes. They don't commutate at all, they just keep the field on the rotor excited (they're just on, not on/off/on like in a rotating DC motor). It does this in place of a perm magnet. The coils in outside of the motor can be rewired to run as BLDC motor. They're wired for 3 phase AC to keep the ripple current so the rectified output is smooth. Its also part of their namesake "ALTERNAT-or" as in Alternating current/AC.

ALL automotive alternators are like this. We have 2 running in one go-kart and it f***in flies. We've also got a minibike. 60V 150A

http://www.alternatorparts.com/understanding_alternators.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator#Automotive_alternators

To the OP. I think 120V for an alternator is a bit too high. 200A MIGHT be a little high, but it can be detuned. What is the alternator rated for? how big is it? It might have trouble dissipating the heat. Why do you NEED these specs?

Also, there's not many controllers out there. We've got one we've developed at Synkromotive that will work, I can check to see its availability. Kelly may have one, but I think theirs run under 72V. There just aren't any manufacturers that have readily available BLDC motors running the specs you require, so no one else makes them. I can try to see if we plan on building anymore.

Ours runs without sensors... it can be a little jerky to start (tries to find the poles), but it goes and goes no problem. If you don't have hall sensors, you need a controller that does position sensing through Back-EMF.

__________________

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Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR Conversion
www.evfr.net

cars4fun2001
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Points: 11
Re: Looking for a controler

I called and sked about the controler you guys have the other day. I then sent you a email as the person I takled to asked me to do. I dont relly think I need those specs for this motor but I dont want to spend the money on a controler then have to buy anoughter one down the road. This is a test mule to test my theory. I would be very interested in one of the controlers you guys make. At the moment I am looking at very larg high power esc for rc use. But if I did use one I would have to change the feet out to something heaver.

Mike

frodus
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Points: 189
Re: Looking for a controler

we have a couple controllers, 1 BLDC, 1 AC Induction and 1 DC Series wound...

just keep in touch, what I'm kind of hinting at is, that we may be able to get you something that'd work. Where do you live?

Oh, did you email me? or David Boyd?

__________________

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Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR Conversion
www.evfr.net

cars4fun2001
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Points: 11
Re: Looking for a controler

i just emailed info@Synkromotive like I was told. I am not good with names and dont recall who I spoke with. I am in north east Texas. I am very thankfull for all the help on this. I know it is a bit out there and not at all the norm but I have a crazy idea and I just have to see if it will work.

Mike

cars4fun2001
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Re: Looking for a controler

Well I am still on the search. I have about decided that the only way to do this is to install a fly wheel and hall effect censors. Might be fun getting the timing worked out.

Mike

cars4fun2001
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Points: 11
Re: Looking for a controler

Took the bike for a ride tonight with the altamotor. Gearing was way to high but I new that. only running on 24volts and that is way to low but I new that. All in all with all that took into consideration I was very very pleased with the out come. Getting started was a bit rough. The bike was built for a gas motor that was off set to the right about 4" off center line and that had the balance off a good bit. The ride was on my gravel road and up a hill that has about a 45 deg up hill clime for a 1/2 mile. took it with no issue's.

Now I just need a proper controler and more voltage.

Mike

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