Changing Brushes on BD36

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Fuzzy
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Any tips on taking apart the hub so I can replace the brushes?
It seems like a pretty tight fit, and I don't want to start forcing things apart without knowing how the motor comes apart.

Thanks!!

Nick

ps - Pics would be great!!

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reikiman
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Do you have a source of replacement brushes?

This may give you some ideas: http://www.7gen.com/book/my-ev-projects/cleaning-evt-hub-motor/701

That's instructions I wrote some time ago for cleaning an EVT 4000 hub motor. Of course the details will be different with the WE BD motor but the general principles should be the same. I just went outside to look at the motor on my bike and see there's a circle of screws on both sides and you'd start by undoing the screws. But there's going to be magnets inside there holding it together and the gear puller idea I used for the EVT hub motor should work on this motor too.

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garygid
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Nice sequence on cleaning your EV's motor.
Cheers, Gary

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dogman
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Once you get inside, mark where the brush holder sits, so you can put the new one in the same way. Brushed hubs are timed, and it will run slow and hot if you mess up the timing of it. You don't need to pull the magnet core out of the hub, which is good, those things can take a fingetip off. Just pop off the cover. It's pretty easy, just take it slow and pry gently, minding the wires so they don't cut the insulation.

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Fuzzy
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Thanks for the info!
I'm going to try and take care of it tonight.

Fuzzy
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

I was able to get the cover off and found out that the wires to the brushes had sliced through and shorted out against the frame. I cleaned them up, soldered new connectors and put it all back together.
Unfortunately, the motor won't turn.........

The batter pack is fully charged and reading about 39 volts going into the controller. I am getting about 37 volts constant from the controller (regardless of throttle) to the motor power line, and still no turn.....

So, it looks like I have a toasted controller, but I'm stumped on the motor. I put a meter across the input and showed zero ohms on all ranges except mega-ohms, which was about .004 meg.

I'm guessing I should open it up again and install the new brushes??

Any other suggestions or trouble shooting ideas??

Thanks for your help!!

And if you could recommend a vendor for replacement parts?

Thanks again!!

dogman
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Bummer, I mean about the controller. If hooking it up straight to a 12 v battery won't make it turn, then you need to open it up and look for something wrong. Maybe a brush is stuck in the holder and not contacting the rotor or something like that. Shorting the wires can blow a controller, been there done that.

Lotsa places for controllers, ebay for one. Brushed controllers are pretty cheap, but some of the ones on ebay are pretty weak, like 10 amps, and the we one is 35 amp. Ebikes-ca sells a 30 amp brushed controller. Some other places that sell WE stuff have replacement WE brushed controllers. Just google
we for that. And over on the endless sphere, I am selling a used brushed hub and controller in the for sale section. You can look at it, and pm me on this forum if you aren't a member at es.

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Fuzzy
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Thanks for the tip!
I was able to find a dealer in MI that had a new brushed motor and controller.
He wanted to get rid of the brushed stuff, so he sold them both for less than $200 shipped. Fortunately I have a new set of brushes and will take apart the old motor and see if I can't figure out why it won't spin, before I install the new controller....

dogman
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Cool, the brushed hubs are nice because of the simplicity of them, cheaper controllers, in a pinch you could get home by plugging the motor right into a battery. But where I live, they run too hot. It's the desert, so everything gets too hot.

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Fuzzy
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

We're in FL so I know about hot and humid!
Fortunately the trike is for my 91 yr old father in law. Who only rides it 4 miles a day to and from the gold course, 6 days a week.
He can't really peddle to start so I wanted a motor with enough torque to get him started.

dogman
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

At least humidity helps the air cool the motor. I just had problems with 5% or less humidity, and temps around 105. With no water molecules in the air, the motor would run hot. And I was trying to ride it 15 miles all uphill. So that was the real problem.

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Fuzzy
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

So, after cutting the wires into the hub 3 times, I've gotten pretty good at opening up the motor and replacing the wires. Turns out the fork on the Miami Sun Trike had rounded out and was no longer stopping the hub from spinning. I tried making larger locking tabs, but it just kept spinning and breaking. So, I'm replacing the fork with one from a used mountain bike that seems to be a lot stronger. Hopefully this will take care of the problem, if not I'm going to throw a rim on the front and get rid of the trike.
The bike shop near us sell IZip trikes. I like the fact that the motor is gear driven on the rear axle. But I'm concerned the 450 watt motor won't have enough guts to push it through the grass.

If that doesn't work I'm going to start looking for a small single seat golf cart or a decent used 2 seater.....

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

I opened up my hub a few months ago and changed the brushes. It was easier than anticipated. I followed instructions f/ V forum & Endless forum and it turned out fine. The main concerns are: do not mess up timing and be careful the hex screws don't fall into motor. When finished, I used a little caulking to zip up the seam.

gallodp
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Dogman. do you think that not setting my timing properly after replacing my brushes would cause the motor to die prematurely when i put a full load on it? My 48v lithium batt going into my 48volt crystilyte controller into my 36v bd WE wheel is dying on me and I dont know why? help!!!

psychelectrified
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

I also need to pop open my bd36 motor to replace the wires coming out of the motor. One of the has been completely cut in half. I got the screws off and I cannot open the case.

I read you link David up there and its interesting, someone else mentioned using a gear puller or flywheel puller but I don't know what size.
Can we get a thread devoted to showing exactly how to open a hub motor case?

Also any tips? I don't have the pullers.

Thanks a lot.

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

You don't need a 2 jaw or 3 jaw puller. the way I have done it is: 1) remove allen bolts 2) go around hub crease
with a thin knife or razor blade to create bigger crease for about 5 or 10 minutes 3) insert flat head screw drivers into crease and eventually the hub cover will pop upwards 4) be careful not to pry hard with screw driver near allen bolt holes. Those allen holes are the weakest part on hub cover.
using this method it takes a solid 15 minutes to open BD36 Hub (wired side).
I've never opened the unwired side. read Dogman's advice on the timing above. Changing the brushes requires removing the allen bolts that hold down brush plate. Make sure allen bolts don't fall inside motor.
Also, it's a good idea to wipe up or blow off as much carbon dust as possible. Endless sphere has a BD36 exposed pics & info.
The timing problem will prob not ruin the motor. You'll just lose some speed/power. Ask dogman?
Once the brush plate is removed, don't spin the axle around. I put a little touch up paint near brushplate, magnets etc. That way I know axle hasn't moved and timing is ok..

psychelectrified
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Thanks for the advice, with your help I quickly got the cover open and I was able to replace the wires coming out.

I don't think I need to change the brushes yet, I was only replacing the wires since one was completely severed, and the other was exposing wires.

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

It's not hard to open wire side of motor. Just takes persistence, patience and caution.

Profiler35
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Man, that was JUST the advice I was needing. After a couple years of use/abuse/enjoyment of my BL 36 700c the wiring finally gave in to friction/weather/age/reinstallments. I knew I could rewire it, if only I could get the hub plate off! Not wanting to do any damage I even turned it over to the maint dept at work for a try. They figured it was just pressed, and didn't want to cause any harm either. So now, thanks to ya'll, I know it will just take some patience and diligence to pop that cap! So glad I decided to do the research before buying a whole new kit. Thanks again guys!

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

One more comment: be careful prying with the knife/razor. Do not pry too forcefully. Use safety glasses. I suppose a bit a razor could break off if done too forcefully. etc.

musiclover
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Can anyone help me find a site to get replacement brushes for a BD-36 electric wheel? I need to get them for my brother and I used to get them from Wilderness Energy but they are gone. Can anyone tell me where to find them? Thanks- Cathy B.

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

I got my brushes from an ebay type vendor. There is a scooter place in Georgia or maybe Atlanta area that sold me a pair of BD-36 brushes. But this was 5 yrs ago.
You can try somebody like Dalesbest4bikes, also. I think he is on ebay. These people don't always market the brushes online because of costs/space, so you have to ask them. I no longer own a BD-36, but I'm sure there are plenty of brushes around. I'll try to remember the Georgia place and get back to you.

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

Java cycles in Atlanta has them, but they want an arm and a leg. $32. Try dalesbest4bikes. He might have some at a better price. I actually did buy a brush kit from Java 5 yrs ago.

k3n51mm
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

This is a very old thread, but it's one of few places on the net discussing precisely what I need to talk about. So, I'd appreciate if the forum would please indulge me this question.

I got a new BD-36 kit recently, bolted it in and the wires got crushed against the front fork. Of course with crushed wires, the controller fried. Before I bought a whole new kit due to my incompetence, I figured I'd salvage whatever was left. That's when I found the wire problem. Now I'm thinking the motor might be fine if I can just fix the wires.

Not knowing exactly how to disassemble the thing so I can replace the existing wires, and WE being out of business, I just started taking bolts off. At this point I've removed all the allen bolts on the hub surface and pried it apart like 1/4", but that's it. Can I simply replace the bolts in the non-wire side of the hub and be OK?

This thread mentions timing of the hub. How do I know when I've changed it? And if I have, how do I re-time it?

Thanks for any help I can get.
-K5

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

see my Jan 21. 2010 post

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

why is your wiring getting damaged?

JLGRAU
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

You don't want to spin the thing around when changing the brushes as this can mess up timing. With bad timing, the bike would go slower than usual. I don't know why you would want to open the non-wire side. Anyways all you need is a single 12v battery to test the wiring to motor connection. With bike and hub upside down attach a 12v to the wiring and it should spin instantly. I posted here above on Jan 21, 2010 as to how to open the hub/wiring. I don't know how mush damage you did to wiring, but you can typically fix it with elec tape or soldering. Make sure the wires are fully insulated. Otherwise, you might hear some electrical arcing noises and the motor will not run well. Good luck

k3n51mm
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

HA! Well if you must know why my wiring is getting damaged, it's because I'm an idiot.
And if that answer is too cryptic, it's because I got the wires caught in the fork because I had them oriented to where they exited the top of the hub instead of the bottom, which of course shorted them out.

At any rate, I got the hub apart and successfully fixed the wiring and reinstalled it correctly on the fork. The hardest part was taking out the allen screws: I had to use a dremel to cut slots in five of them so I could remove them with a screwdriver. As mentioned above, I didn't affect the timing because I just reinstalled the non-wire side bolts without further disassembly.

I tested with a 12v power source as directed in this thread, and all is well - the polarity was even correct. :-)

k3n51mm
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Re: Changing Brushes on BD36

The hub short blew out the original WE controller. After blowing a replacement (Crystalyte) due to bad wiring instructions, I now have a new Currie 36V 30A controller with matching throttle, which I'm installing today.

Thanks for the replies.

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