New software updates

Just out of interest, are there any new Vectrix software updates in the pipeline?

I would be interested if there was an option coming up to display the battery voltage and the temp instead of other information while riding.

Your nickname must be updated ;-)
How do you want development in a brand that has no people working?

if there was an option coming up to display the battery voltage and the temp

You cannot possibly imagine how I wish this option is programmed. Unfortunately the brand is in deep trouble, don't expect any update soon...

My bike is under warranty... the first thing I'll do when it's over is to install a cycle analist.. Large Screen High Current Model (CA-HC-LS) Voltage, instant amperage and KW...

http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml

if there was an option coming up to display the battery voltage and the temp

You cannot possibly imagine how I wish this option is programmed. Unfortunately the brand is in deep trouble, don't expect any update soon...

My bike is under warranty... the first thing I'll do when it's over is to install a cycle analist.. Large Screen High Current Model (CA-HC-LS) Voltage, instant amperage and KW...

http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml

would that work with the complicated V-brain?

would that work with the complicated V-brain?

yes, it's is completely v-barain independent. It has it's own processor to make calculations. It only needs a calibrated shunt at the battery terminal that will show all instant energy drained from the pack.

There is very little space in the battery compartment. You might find that a shunt capable of staying cool whilst conducting the entire Vetrix current is too large to fit!

You might find that a shunt capable of staying cool whilst conducting the entire Vetrix current is too large to fit!

That's true... what options do we have? Just in in case anybody wants to install it some day in the future...

I tried a hall effect sensor clamp around the positive battery cable, but I could not work out why it was giving me erroneous results.

I need to look at my notes, maybe it had something to do with the phase current / peak current issue which X-Vectrix explained here: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7002-possible-future-vectux-open-source-vectrix#comment-41313

The current you are looking at on the CANbus is the integrated battery current. This is battery current integrated at 15khz, so it is the true sum of all the current flowing from the battery but it is reported on the CANbus at 1Hz. Since the battery is feeding the IGBT at 15Khz you will not see the current spikes on the CANbus, its happening way too fast. Its these current spikes that are smoothed out by the motor (a big inductor). The motor current (phase current) is maximum at 0 rpm when the windings are basically a dead short. At full throttle from 0mph the phase current is maximum then begins to taper off, the bus current peaks about 3500 rpm or so.
The rate at which phase current increases and the maximum current are controlled, otherwise the IGBT would fry. Uncontrolled you could burn rubber...but only once!

IIRC, the measurements seemed too high; maybe the particular hall clamp device I used shows the peak current during each measurement cycle?

Another option is to tap into the hall effect sensors on the MC board. Someone with better knowledge than myself could certainly work out what absolute current is indicated by the voltage it produces. I could only manage to calibrate it to show the percentage of maximum current flow, peaking with 100% at about 75km/h under full acceleration.

I called the thingy the RETAMPI, or REal Time AMp Indicator.

The part of the sage where it is described in more detail can be found here: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/3635-vectux-part-2-open-source-vectrix#comment-20716
There are photos of where to tap into the hall sensor and videos of the voltages it produces under varying loads.

Here is a video of the voltage produced by one hall sensor on the MC board during full acceleration, followed by full deceleration (that was before I calibrated it to peak at 100).

Maybe a Cycle Analyst or PakTrakr can use the info from these already installed sensors?

Maybe a Cycle Analyst or PakTrakr can use the info from these already installed sensors?

I'm not sure MiK, but as far as I know, the cycle analist was initially designed to be fitted in sensorless, self-made electric bicycles. This first versions worked only with a calibrated shunt that was added to the battery... don't know if the wide screen display can use other sensor sources...
If addding the shunt was the only possibility, in which place of the vectrix would you try to install it?
thanks,
R

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If addding the shunt was the only possibility, in which place of the vectrix would you try to install it?
thanks,
R

At this stage, I would not install a shunt.

Have a read of this very interesting text on motor controllers: http://www.4qdtec.com/pwm-01.html

Main Capacitor

There is a problem however: when the MOSFET switches off, it not only interrupts the motor current but it also interrupts the current flowing from the battery. The wires from the battery have inductance (so does the battery) so when this current is interrupted this inductance causes a voltage spike: in the circuit the main capacitor absorbs (most of) this spike. When the drive MOSFET turns on again, battery current is asked to flow quickly - which it cannot. The main capacitor supplies current during the period battery current is re-establishing. In a controller capable of giving 120 amps this capacitor is working very hard and, if high current is drawn for too long (depending on the battery lead length) the main capacitor can explode! During the early development work we once used standard wire ended capacitors and melted the wires of the capacitor! Capacitors have copper plated steel leads and in motor control applications these leads can get extremely hot!

It will be apparent from the above that the work this capacitor does is extremely dependant on the loop inductance of the battery wires. Long wires will have a high inductance. Twisting the battery wires reduces their inductance.

It should go without saying that resistance in the battery leads will have an effect similar to inductance, so these wires should be thick.

Also, some people want to put an ammeter in the battery leads. The temptation should be resisted: simple car type ammeters in particular are highly inductive!

I think that maybe a current shunt could cause these sort of problems, apart from the lack of space for it.

Why "ADD" a shunt? Simply us what is ALREADY THERE! If you were to carefully tap into either of the main battery cables, at a point near each end, you would be able to measure the voltage drop across the cable, which is directly proportional to the AMPERAGE through it! I would advise installing a resistor, perhaps 1/2 watt @ 22K ohms, near each tap, and then feeding this voltage into a low-pass filter, to remove the 15 Khz switching spikes, into an operational amplifier. The gain of the operational amplifier should be adjusted to provide accurate current indication on a metering device connected to the amplifiers output. (Calibration could be accomplished by connecting a suitable high-power resistive load to the motor side of the battery cables-130 volts into 6.5 ohms = 20 amperes and 2,600 watts)This is NOT advised for novices, or those without electronics skill and knowledge, so no further details will be given here! Sampling the current in this manner, you should get an accurate reading, WITHOUT any noticable change to circuit resistance or inductance!-Bob

Why "ADD" a shunt? Simply us what is ALREADY THERE! ...
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This is NOT advised for novices, or those without electronics skill and knowledge, so no further details will be given here! Sampling the current in this manner, you should get an accurate reading, WITHOUT any noticable change to circuit resistance or inductance!-Bob

It's nice we are getting closer to the end of warranty for all the EE's who own a Vectrix!

"Use what is already there" was also the advice from the very smart guy at the Jaycar electronics shop when I was looking into current shunts etc.

But I think it is easier to use the Hall effect sensors that are already there (than to sample current by using the resistance of existing hardware as the shunt).

Oh, and for real simplicity, the current draw already gets reported on the CANBUS several times per second!

(...)It's nice we are getting closer to the end of warranty for all the EE's who own a Vectrix! (...)

That's not entirely true...
My Vectrix has a 5 years warranty for the battery. Also in my country when the warranty is interrupted, the time stops counting... I don't know about you guys think but i strongly believe that the warranty has been interrupted in many countries. Now depends on their law...