I just wrote a short comparison of the new Zero S and DS bikes to my Vectrix on the Zero thread. Here is the link:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/8980-denver-demo-day-sat
Please reply to the post above if you have any specific questions comparing the two! I'll be glad to answer.
Well I bit the bullet and bought a new 2010 Zero DS! It should arrive around the first week of August. Good news is I'll have a reliable new bike with newer battery technology and (hopefully) less potential problems than my Vectrix. The other good news, my Vectrix is still running great so I plan to keep it and ride in the cooler months or when my wife wants a ride!
Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint
Congrats! Why August? Are they so backed up with orders? (I hope so!)
I also am a Vectrix rider -- and I also just test-rode the Zero.
I was impressed with lightness of the bike, but like you it felt a little strange sitting so high on a narrow bike (compared to the Vectrix). I rode the S (street) model. On this one you have to lean forward at a pretty steep angle -- unless you have really long arms ;-) I asked the salesman if the handle-bars could be switched to ones that curve up and back a little to reduce the leaning angle and he said sure -- the handle bars are not specially made for Zero -- you can swap them out with any one you like.
The disadvantage, as you said, is that you can't take a passenger. I wonder if they did that on purpose to keep the weight low to maximize range. Unfortunately I was following the dealer on his bike -- we rode around a pre-planned route, so I didn't get a chance to open it up to test the top speed.
When I drove the Brammo I was surprised that it couldn't even reach the advertised top speed.
I'm spoiled by the Vectrix, with the big, soft seat, comfortable position, truck space, passenger seat, etc., but I sill prefer the looks of the motorcycle style vs. the scooter style. (Although my Vectrix just broke down a few days ago -- I'm waiting to hear from Vectrix service).
Looking forward to your posts about the new toy!
Per Zero, the shipping date in Aug is because of new orders and some previous orders in 2009 that were delayed so they offered those people first available 2010 models. Regarding the ride, I totally agree about the aggressive riding position of the Zero compared to the Vectrix. The V is just sooooo comfortable to drive. But that is why I am keeping it for now. I love having the option to take my wife on the Vectrix...even with the decreased range of the extra load. I'll post some more after I take delivery.
Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint
Those that are interested, I got my hands on the new 2010 Zero S/DS Owners Manual. It really seems like they nailed the charging system on this thing. As you will read, you just keep the bike always plugged in. Every 72 hours of just sitting plugged in the BMS fires up and checks the battery for charge level, balance, etc. If it needs to top off it does. This would have been a GREAT feature in the Vectrix. I hate it when I have a short lapse not riding it that the charge has been so depleted my self discharge.
I uploaded the PDF for everyone to read:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E2FIIPDA
Adam
Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint
Wait, you mean that even though the V is still drawing LOTS of electricity after the charge is complete (it draws none during the charge delay, but once it starts the only way to stop it is to pull the plug) it is NOT maintaining the charge?? So I could leave it plugged in for a month and come back to a dead battery? Wow, they need to fix the software on this thing.
-Randy
______________________
I also own a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and a 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev
I'm pretty sure that is the case but someone like XVectrix could confirm/refute this.
Adam
Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint
My Vectux does not have the newer software with charge delay installed, so I cannot test this myself.
But I doubt it very much that it is true that the current draw is zero during charge delay - can someone test this, please?
The Vectrix charger draws about 0.5A when plugged in and not running (with the old software) and all this is converted to heat in the charger.
How much power and heat is generated does probably depend on the grid voltage - on 240V you get double the wasted energy and double the heat compared to 120V supply.
This information may be used entirely at your own risk.
There is always a way if there is no other way!
Yes Mik, 0.5A drawn from supply with the timer running.
Cheers
Paul
I just went off to test mine with my newest power meter, during precahrge cool delay (240v version of the wattsup):
0.5A
242.5vac
53W
159VA
0.33 PF
the charger has active PF correction, and while actually supplying something to the batteries, PF is 0.98
interesting the PF is so bad, but that reading may not be accurate either, more discussion here:
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1914&PN=1
I would be interested in seeing what how Zero's charger performs.
active PF is a good thing, but low standby current can make much more difference.
Matt
Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah in July 2010. Done 194'000km
... And the problem with leaving the V plugged in and turned on is that it is drawing 0.5A and doing nothing with it, other than heating the charger!
I wonder if this shortens the life expectancy of the chargers as a result of all the heat build up? I'm on my fourth charger now, but I always switch it off now as soon as the charge cycle is completed. No idea if this will make a difference, but it can't hurt to try... especially as the next charger will hit my wallet, not a warranty claim!
Brian
In our legislation - each time you get something replaced with the original part, you have another 1 year warranty for that particular part. So, if a charger blows one month prior to end of bike warranty and you get a new one installed, you have a 1 year warranty for that charger. So, if that, replaced, charger blows at bikes 2.5 years, it's still under warranty, because only 6-7 months has passed since you got a new charger installed.
Just a quick update. I took delivery of my new Zero DS about a week ago and have been putting it through the paces the past week. To answer a few questions asked elsewhere and here about the comparison to the Vectrix. First the Zero battery is a 4kwh pack...you use about 3.7kwh until the low battery warning. You then have an "emergency reserve" that they do not recommend using often at all. The range meter is quite different than the Vectrix too. It is measuring voltage, which as I understand, it the better way to measure lithium cells. It is a bit disconcerting that there will be a drop always when you ride...the faster you go the lower the range appears, but as soon as you stop and the voltage drop recovers it shows you the actual "range" remaining on the meter. So far I have not taken it out to really test out the max range but I had to make several trips around Denver last week on a particular day without options for opportunity charges, and I went 33 miles and it still showed 4/13 bars remaining. I did a complete charge and it charged 3.2kwh according to my killawatt meter so I likely had several miles of conservative driving left. This ride was a mix of 30-45 mph. Also, Mik had the question about the acceleration in the later half of the speed curve (because lithium is known to have a "weak" spot towards peak draw). I have not taken to the advertised top speed, but I did take it almost to 60mph and the hardest point of acceleration and power was actually between 40-45 mph, but it was still pulling pretty hard until I had to slow down. Also, as I mentioned before, this this would blow the vectrix off the line. I'll try to get a comparison race with one of my motorcycle buddies soon...Vectrix vs Zero. Hopefully I won't blow my Vectrix fuse :) Also, this is obvious, but there are no issues with topping off the charge because of the BMS onboard. Also every 72 hrs the Zero powers up to check the state of charge and balance and tops it off/balances it if needed. I'm currently figuring out the amount of vampire draw it has when left plugged in (as the manual says about 17 times!)
Let me know if anybody has any other questions about comparing the two.
Adam
Adam - Denver, CO
2007 Vectrix VX-1 charged with the power of the sun = zero carbon footprint