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Chapter Four: Head scratching and solutions

It has certainly been a memorable week or so. Hurricane type windstorm, the holidays and an ultra busy time at work. All have limited the time I could devote to the project at hand. Then again stepping away for a bit allowed me to get a fresh perspective and whittle away at the issues list.

Check out my proposed solutions,

A quick list of issues follows:

I. Down tube angle does not match angle of motor mount.

Solution: add a .25 inch spacer between motor mount and chain stays. This spaces the mount and allows attachment without bending the bracket.

II. Supplied 2 inch round u clamp is not appropriate for this application.
A. Oval down tube is 2.25 x 1.25 inches = u bolt too short and too wide.
B. Round contact surfaces not a close enough match to distribute the clamping force allowing tube damage.

Solution: I have found a V saddle clamp at a radio antenna supply house that will fit the frame down tube and spread the load to four points. I will now have to increase the size of at least one of the slots in the motor mount to accommodate the smaller clamp, DXE-CAVS-1P. See it at DX Engineering

http://www.dxengineering.com

III. Starting a 3.5 " bolt in the kick stand sandwich is near impossible due to derailer/ fender clearance.

Temporary solution: Move derailer mount further up the seat tube until the bolt is started.

Long term solution: Install a stud in the kick stand and only have to start a nut in the tight space. I can always use the old rubber hose trick to do this if my fingers can't do the job. Rubber hose trick is to put the nut in the end of an appropriately size hose or spark plug boot and use is as a combination extension and universal joint. Start and tighten the nut as much as possible, then pull off the boot or rubber hose. Finish tightening with the appropriate wrench.

IV. The motor mount must be cut or mounted farther forward than designed for.
A. Forward mounting would be best as I may want to transfer the mount to a regular frame in the future.
1. Forward mounting also gives more leeway in alignment due to added chain length.
a. Added required chain length means the supplied drive chain will not fit, it's just too short.

Solution: Using the spacer I can install the mount to full forward position and no cutting. This will of course mean chain adjustment will have to be made mostly by adding full or half links.

V. The kick stand mounting slot on the bracket is off center to align with a stock frame kick stand mounting tab. I need a slot in the center of the bracket to match up with my Esge stand and allow it to clear the rear tire and not stick out so far as to interfere with the crank arm.

Solution: Drill a hole in the center of the bracket making the slot L shaped. Since I am planning on adjusting the drive chain mostly by adding links enlarging the entire slot will not be necessary.

As I stated when first starting, I don't have access to a machine shop so all of my motor mount modifications will be made with a hand electric drill motor and/or file. I this proves unsatisfactory the purchase of a cheapo electric die grinder will be in order.

In the mean time I'll get some pictures processed, ( not in possession of a digital camera yet ) posted and collect the necessary stuff to move on to the mount installation. This will include ordering the clamp from DX Engineering so it will be a bit. Plenty of time to drill and file on the mount.

Chapter V will be my pictures mostly, if I can get them to post. If not Board Moderator has offered an assist so it will get done. I took a roll already but got a bit carried away with the side lighting, back drops and shadow effects. In other words they stunk, I'll do it again, hopefully right this time.

As always any comments are quite welcome. :)

Happy New Year a bit early.

Dennis's picture

Dahon Mu SL folding bicycle with a Bionx PL350 kit

Trip 16.7 miles at 15.5 mph average in 1hr 30mins at assist level 4 and pedaled to assist motor. The Bionx kit performed great up the hills that would normally exhaust me at the end of the ride on a non assisted bicycle. While non assisted bicycles were traveling up the steep hills at about 4-5 mph, I was able to climb the hills at 8 mph without pedaling and as high as 14 mph with brisk pedaling. I tackled the steepest hills I could find in Palos Verdes. I found that most recreational bicyclists avoided these hills and the higher I rode the better the views. At the end of the trip, I still had half a charge left on the battery indicator. attached are the views of the test ride.
IMG_0257__Large_.jpgIMG_0262__Large_.jpg

Chapter Three: Test fitting the motor mount

What's the brown leather belt for? Multiple choice test later in this entry.

Did my initial test fit of the motor mount and as expected the odd frame geometry is supplying more challenges.

A quick list of issues follows:

I. Down tube angle does not match angle of motor mount.

II. Supplied 2 inch round u clamp is not appropriate for this application.
A. Oval down tube is 2.25 x 1.25 inches = u bolt too short and too wide.
B. Round contact surfaces not a close enough match to distribute the clamping force allowing tube damage.

III. Starting a 3.5 " bolt in the kick stand sandwich is near impossible due to derailer/ fender clearance.

IV. The motor mount must be cut or mounted farther forward than designed for.
A. Forward mounting would be best as I may want to transfer the mount to a regular frame in the future.
1. Forward mounting also gives more leeway in alignment due to added chain length.
a. Added required chain length means the supplied drive chain will not fit, it's just too short.

V. The kick stand mounting slot on the bracket is off center to align with a stock frame kick stand mounting tab. I need a slot in the center of the bracket to match up with my Esge stand and allow it to clear the rear tire and not stick out so far as to interfere with the crank arm.

I am slowly working these issues and hunting down appropriate components from some interesting sources, especially a replacement for the u clamp.

The holidays and some domocile damage from that nasty wind storm that blew through the Pacific Northwest last night are reducing the amount of time I can dedicate to the project currently. So bear with me as I plod through this. Like I said I am shooting for a Spring completion including debug and upgrades.

As a side note I have been in contact with Allan and am happy to announce that he will be contributing to this blog as I progress. He will add some comments related to his thinking when designing this product and keep us informed of planned upgrades and needed improvements.

I'll continue to give my accounting of the installation on this odd ball frame and won't pull any punches delivering an honest accounting warts and all.

As for that brown belt, multiple choice question.

What did I buy it for?

1. I'll be using it to hang myself if this doesn't work out.
2. I've lost so much weight I needed a new one.
3. Leather would make a great frame protecting surface under any clamps and my bike is brown or better known by it's official Ford color name "Dirt".

dicanio's bike

Hello all,

After a lot of hanging around the forums and generally annoying the bejesus out of all the experienced guys here i'm finally taking the plunge by buying most of my setup tomorrow!!!! hurragh!!!
As most of you know i'm going to try to convert the fs mtb i currently have to 20" wheels and run it at 72v35a.
All of my kit will be coming from Mark at teamhybrid in the UK as this is where i'm based and i have opted for the very impressive puma motor (rear wheel) and two of those lovely but expensive lithium polymer 36v15ah batteries and a crystalyte 36-72v controller :)
My project is a little different to most of the bikes i have seen in that it will only be for off road use, mostly forest trails and singletrack so i am expecting more issues to overcome than a road user,that said i guess we will see if an electric bike can really cut it off road!!
i will blog my progress as to help anyone who is interested in this type of setup and to show that even an inexperienced/first time ebiker is capable of building a pretty good machine with the help of the guys found on this forum (big thank you to all of you who have helped me thus far).
I have attached the original concept picture i hacked together in paint - it's no picasso but this is what i intend to build and if the kit proves it's worth (please god) i will get a more specialised frame/forks etc to improve ground clearence and a few other issues i forsee.If my whole project falls flat on it's face then some of you guys who are UK based are going to be getting some real bargains on spares!!!! lol
Special thanks goes out to Knoxie,Buzzz,Dom,Steve and xyster for all you patience and help.
Wish me luck fellas - dicanio's bike is born!!!!!

20batt_500x500jpeg.jpg

Chapter Two : Bottom bracket swap and chainline woes

Well, all the components and tools arrived from Harris yesterday. Order was complete including the grade 25 bearings. It came well packaged and everything was as advertised. I'll be ordering from them again if my LBS doesn't have what I need.

The crank removal went smoothly thanks to getting the specialty tools. Specifically the Shimano lock ring socket and crank puller. Both were Park tools and appear to be of a quality level that will allow me a lifetime of part time use. I did run into a bit of a snag when trying to loosen the pedals. A stock 9/16" wrench is too thick to fit between the crank arm and the pedal. Lucky for me I had a thin old 19/32" wrench which barely fit but saved me having to spend another $16 or more for a specialty pedal wrench. If that had not worked I probably would have ground down a cheap 9/16" rather than spend that extra money.

Before removing the old crank and gear set I measured the distance from the outer lip of the BB housing to the inner chainring it was 5/16". I did this to keep the same spacing and help ease the derailer adjustment. The old ring set was a 42/32/22. The supplied ring set is 48/38/28 a huge difference . Should this gearing prove too tall for my hill climbing needs I will convert to an IPS stoker crank and lower gearing if Allan has not come up with that 11 tooth drive sprocket by then. Luckily my derailer is a mid range Shimano MTB so it will barely fit. The cheaper Shimano MTB will only fit a 42 max ring size. I did have to move it up the seatpost almost 1/2" just to get the crank/rings on the BB spindle. The conversion to bearing and cone from cartridge BB was uneventful and again quite quick as I purchased a pin wrench and a lock ring wrench.

After tightening down the drive side crank I measured and the spacing dimension, it was reduced to 3/16". I did a quick front derailer adjustment and have found two more things to address. First the derailer will not drop the chain to low gear even when adjustment is maxed in that direction and second which was no surprise, the chain is a good six links too short. So time to get some BB spacers and pick that 1/8" back up and also a new longer chain is in order.

I don't want to appear obsessed with BB issues but the chain line and proper shifting is critical given that is the drive mechanism for both me power and the E power on this ride. Had I chosen a hub motor all this would be a non issue.

There you have it. Some minor issues that are just time sinks, nothing to panic about but things that will stretch out the conversion time. Glad I'm shooting for a Spring completion including upgrades and de bugging.

Lesson learned, anything other than a go hub is likely to take longer than expected.

One other thing to keep in mind is that I have no real bike wrenching experience. Mechanically inclined with auto and old motorcycle experience am I. Hints and tips from experienced bicycle wrenchers are welcome.

soldaze's picture

I like this board better

Hi, I was a serial lurker on the old board but learned a lot. I've got an old Raleigh Folder (1974) that I've cleaned up and replaced some parts, etc. I've got a WE BD36 hub motor ready to install. I've also got the batteries (BB) but I'm just trying figure out where to put them. I've got 4 x 12V x 12AH so I'd like to run 48V with the WE controller. Also just complete homebuilt lwb recumbent. ( see photo) Still trying to decide 1) should it be "electrified"? 2)How?

If the search function on this board is any improvement over the PHP, then there will be no doubt it is an improvement. Nonetheless, I alway appreciate and am in awe of forum moderators and admins. You are all so awesome. Thank You!

Puma Rear Motor setup

Hello

Just starting to set-up the Puma motor, this one is a rear and has the added bonus of a rear brake adaptor so I can fit a nice hydraulic brake to the bike when testing, will match the front as well with a new wheel and brake.

Otherwise its identical to the front motor, the cable is coming out on the left however I think that the new ones coming to Mark at TH are going to have the cable coming out of the right, will let you know for sure when they arrive.

Right need to modify this one inside quite a bit and do the mods on the outer, then it should be a straight swap in to my Trek bike and or the KMX which ever I fancy, the Trek will only run 48V but the KMX will do 72, I may run it on the Trek Bike at 72V as well, bit of a lash and strap job but I must do it for the sake of mankind!
puma_rear_2_-_small.jpg
puma_rear_-_small.jpg

Here we go!

Cheers

Knoxie

My e-ride XPe: Chinese Sailing Ship?

removed by owner.

Chapter one: Starting down the ebike trail, decision and kit purchase

After much agonizing over which type of conversion kit to use I purchased an elation ebike bottom bracket drive kit from Oz which has finally arrived in the US after a bit of a wait. My main concern is no US distributor yet so it's all long distance so to speak.

I decided to go this route for multiple reasons. Local terrain includes many steep hills, the finished product needed to be light enough for me to lift into a transit bus bike carrier, I have no access to a machine shop and zero experience with electric bikes. This kit seemed to offer all that I was looking for. Mostly I wanted the bottom bracket mount Unite motor, motor freewheel adapter and the freewheeling crank set. I also liked the light weight, quick release, easy to carry, complete with handle battery pack.

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