What do you folks know about this technology for battery replacements?

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pchech
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Joined: 06/27/2007
Points: 26

link to product below:

BMOD0110-P048 48.6V Ultracapacitor Module
Electric Double Layer Capacitor (EDLC): Boostcap Ultracapacitor Module
110.0 Farad ± 20%; 48.6V; L = 416.0mm, W = 190.0mm, H = 124.0mm; -40°C to +65°C

Features:
48.6V operating voltage
Ultra low internal resistance
Over 1 million duty cycles
Individually balanced cells
Mountable option included
Module-to-module balancing
Voltage and temperature sensor output included
Compact, rugged, fully enclosed and splash proof design

Applications:
Industrial
UPS
Power quality
Telecommunication
Renewable energy

Dimensions:
Product dimensions and specifications may change without notice. Please contact Tecate Group directly for any technical specifications critical to application.

$ 1706.00

http://www.prestomart.com/cgi-bin/store_mart_product.pl?ref=tecategroup.com&pd=258359&disp=info#INFO

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amp_head
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

Thanks for that info! This is the first time I have heard about this company.
I have been following EEStore for a while now. http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html

Matt

andrew
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

pchech,
man I really hate to burst your bubble. Heres how much energy your capacitor can store
Estore = 1/2 * C * V ^2
= 1/2 * 110 * 48.6 ^ 2 = 129907.8 joules
1 watt hour = 3600 joules
129907.8/3600 = 36 whrs. About how much energy you can store in a laptop battery :(

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cjaywang
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

Hi Andrew,

Super capacitor mostly apply as a boostor instead of regular energy storage like a real battery, because of its ultra fast recharging time, minutes evern seconds, and light weight. You can see designs in some racing cars, to boost 50 more hore powers maybe up to few seconds. This might be the most expensive solution nowaday if trying to replace the batterry, because you need a lot putting together. That makes the whole system even more expensive.

Jay, Taipei

andrew
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

Jay,
Really good point. I can't seem to find the internal resistance of this ultracapacitor.

Unfortunately, where ultracapacitors could really shine, batteries are improving by a lot. A123s have such a low internal resistance that it would make sense just using them, and they would probably be cheaper too than another battery technology paired with ultracapacitors.

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HCT
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

The ultrapacitor manufacturer will give you the impedance number , that is one figure they are justly proud of , or can measure it with a HP4328A ; HP4338A -B meters not cheap but very worthwhile to have.
Have measured the A123 cell impedance they range from about 5.5 to 7.5 millioms , very good for a 3.20 cell , the panasonic HHR650D "D " NiMH 6.5A/H cell have figures in the 1.8 to 2.2 milliohms , both cell are comparable in delivering over 300 Amp the A123 advantage come from the higher voltage and much improve heat dissipating case construction in addition to weight , Toyota very good experience with that "D" cell has been the driving force in my using in several military application .

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andrew
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

HCT,
do you know a good source for the panasonic HHR650D "D " NiMH 6.5A/H cells? Last I checked they were kind of expensive.

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HCT
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

Bought 2000 cells back in 2004 for $7.89 each from Digi-Key , now the price is over double that ,doubt if they will ever go back down in price .
I have a job coming up requiring 100 cells , be glad to buy more and give them to you at my cost , how many pieces are you looking for ? with tabs or not .
The 100 piece price is around $15.00 maybe able to beat them down a little more ! ! .

Have some 7 A/H 10 A/H and 20 A/H Sanyo N.C. KR series fairly low impedance less than 5 milliohms let me know , also
have the evercel 24 volts 30 A/H pack .
Let me know

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andrew
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

Can you post the price chart? I think I will probably want something with more capacity though.

How many Sanyo cells do you have, and how much do they cost?

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HCT
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

Have several dozen of each type of Sanyo KR series cell , 4.4 A/H 7 A/H 10 A/H and last 20 A/H would rather sit on them , than take less than a couple dollars per A/H .
If I have to replace them , will have to place a OEM quantity order ( over 1,000 cells ) and wait several months since no one will stock them .
Have you had any experience with LifePO4 cells from either Valence or A123 or any other manuf ? .
Running test and quite suprised at their performance particularly at 2-3 C rate .
Regards
Andre

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andrew
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

I have had no experience with LifePO4.

Please let me know when you place an order.

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cjaywang
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

Hi Andrew,

LifePO4 is a formular of new generation Li-ion battery. Li-ion is a better alternative to NiHM for two reason. 1. no memory effect at all. 2.environmental friendly in all stages of product life cycle. Yet Li-ion is more danger to explose if battery can punched, and duty cycle is just about the same to NiHM. That's why Prius using NiHM until it's next model.

LifePO4 bettery is not available until recently, whch give a great improvement, including 1.very saft, no explosion. 2.very long duty cycle. The only problem is cost 6-8 times higher then a Lead-acid bettery at this moment. What I heard form the manufacturer is that they exptected cost double to lead-acid battery in not so far future. Think of a 4 times, even higher, duty cycle, it's pretty a price.

The wold first mass production maker is this company. http://www.phet.com.tw/Products/Products_Intro.aspx. I've been talked with their CTO, he happily agreed to post some tech documents to the forum. We will see them soon.
This company's main targets are e-bicycle and tooling markets, I guess for getting quicker return then the developing e-car market. Been trhough 5-6 years lost, it' reasonable get more practical. But guess what? Tesla now using batteries from this company too.

Jay, Taipei

amp_head
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

I was disappointed by the Max. discharging specs for the PHET 18650 cell is 5 c. I could be wrong but this seems very low to me. I have a very hard time believing that Tesla would use such cells. For comparison Altairnano cells have a up to a 100+ C discharge rate according to their spec sheet.

Matt

cjaywang
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Re: What do you folks know about this technology for battery rep

;) Hi Matt,

WOW, I guess Altairnano cell is one in best C-rate I've ever heard, hope it's not too expensive.

I think PHET is not a too bad chioice either. The cell has been mass production and available now. We will see more detail spec when I receiving form PHET. The technology is very similar to A123's, yet in different fomular. My personal view point is that both companies are likly the winners in this filed. Because commercialization to cost down is the biggest bottleneck at current stage for market development, since cycle time and safty are no longer problems. For those, the companies are way ahead to the others.

Jay, Taipei

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