I got out this weekend on the Team Hybrid Puma BMX. Ran it at 72V, to say it is fast is an understatement! anyone who is in the market for a seriously fast and powerful hub motor need not look anywhere else.
Check the video out and if you know of anything that can outperform this little motor for the size, weight and price then I would like to know about it.
Hope you enjoy
Here is the Link
This gives a different meaning to the word BAG PACKING Knoxie, Can't wait for mine to come.
Ahhh...very nice vid! Pound for pound this hubmotor certainly seems like the best thing going by far. I don't mean to seem like I'm in competition here or something, but I'm planning my next bike, so I'm still wondering how it'll directly compare to the x5. You mentioned needing to pedal in order to accelerate with traffic -- was that because of the front wheel slippage issue? Under full acceleration at 72v35a, it's nigh impossible for me to pedal with any effect. Hills are a major consideration around here. Does your motor get hot after a hard uphill run at 40 amps? Was the hill you took really 10%? It's very hard to tell from video, but it looked much less steep than the hills around here I call 10% from google maps. A supposedly 15% hill nearby is so steep it's posted 20mph and there's no way freight trucks would make it up. I can see I need to bring a level and yardstick along for a ride.
I really would not rate this highly if I didn't think it was the real deal, I think it will have an X5 on acceleration and top speed, Mark has all the flavours of X5 you can buy and he says there is no comparison so I have it on his word, it is certainly mighty impressive. I only put the peddling thing in the video to cover my arse if anyone says about the speed (I was joking) I never peddled once.
The motor does get warmer but not hot, that hill really is that steep, there is a steeper one right next to it, I will go and do that once with the Camera and GPS running (will order another bracket to mount both).
What I will do is take it to a documented hill like sun rising (it has the signs on the hill to prove it) that's the best test, then film the run with GPS showing there will be no denying it then, I need to get a power meter that can measure 72V now though!
Its blisteringly fast I will be buying one for either the KMX or another bike as a standby.
Monster motors, Puma? ? more like Buffalo or charging elephant or something he he.
KMX Video next that's also going to be cool, then KMX Puma hybrid video, I could tow most e-bikes behind me then ;-)
Its a really exiting time when you can couple the motor with a set of batteries like that as well, I will have to watch for the oil men in black at the front door wont I! ha ha I may go out hunting mopeds one night ha ha, I nailed quite a few cars last night.
Glad that you enjoyed.
Yes the video doesn't do it complete justice and also I must add it doesn't sound as horrible as that when you are on it, its just the mic is right above it and picks up a lot of vibration through the bike off the road.
Mark is getting a lot of interest on these and the batteries not just from the UK but from Europe as well, I guess the word is out he he that's my fault I suppose, thanks to Mark though for letting me play around with thousands of pounds worth of gear, I hope what we have done will be worth it.
Just better hope the boys from Deep Purple don't come round though, Ill need to be a real speed king :-)
Thanks for the effort on the 72v video :) very nice indeed,just what i've been waiting for :)
Marks mailed me today and said my lipo's are in - how would i like to pay? lol no problem as i'm committed to get the bike like never before, hopefully be all up and running for spring :) - what did you mean the motors been modded? how so ? - if i buy a standard one will i be measureably slower/less acceleration? need to know as really i'd love to run a 24" wheel with a puma at 72v 35a.
let me know what you think as i need to order - will i lose out a lot if i don't stick with 20" ?
very exciting times indeed knoxie :)
Looks like traction was a real limiting factor as well as the fuses.
How many amps were the fuses? Seems like a higher rating is in order.
I think a rear wheel model would be better also.
Hi DC & Fechter
I think this motor will be fine in a 24 inch wheel esp at 72V, all Team Hybrid motors are modified so you dont need to worry there. As far as the fuses go they were 40A ones I think the main problem was the power going through the fuses as they are only rated at 32V, I know its the amps thats the issue but I think the controller was really thumping them.
Traction was an issue on the running track as it was so wet, I would prefer the rear mounted wheel however if you like the simplicity of front wheel mounting and can get used to the power you will be ok.
It is a very powerful motor / controller package I cant say anything about the durability of the motors however I can say they are very well made and have so far proved to be very reliable and we have been really pushing them.
Glad you all liked the video
First let me say, awesome Vid!! A couple questions:
1) Are you going to be testing this motor in a 26" wheel?
2) Where is this motor manufactured?
3) Do you know of any dealers in the U.S. that are currently selling this motor? Not sure if it's true or not, but I heard a rumor that texaselectricbikes has shipped their supply to teamhybrid in the UK. Do you know if that is true?
Thanks for the comments on the Video, I will answer them nice and quick.
1. Yes I have a new motor on my bench thats going to be laced by me in to a 26 inch wheel.
2. Motors are made in PRC
3. There are no dealers in the US that are selling the modified motors that I know of, certainly EV-Tech have shipped motors to TH but I dont think that they have shipped all of them? once the motors come in to TH they are stripped and modified Internally and Externally to cope with the extra power.
I suspect the current comsumption will rise dramatically if you try to push a normal bike much faster, so the 26" will probaly only be slightly faster but use much more juice.
Now if you were to slip it into a lowracer recumbent or trike with a 26" rear wheel speed should jump severely.
From memory 80% of the resistance to forward motion on a bike going above 30 kph is air resistance.
It would be interesting to see the speed in the KMX with the 20" wheel ( if the speed is similar I bet the current is halved) or even better send it to me and I will throw it in the trike I am just finishing up, it has much lower air resistance than a KMX :).
Great pioneering work and another brilliant video. Bring on the KMX:)
Knoxie have a short play with this power/speed bike calcutator it's pretty accurate at human power outputs and clearly shows the difference that the bike can make, now if you can find someone with a Quest velomobile you should be able to crack the 100 kph/60 mph barrier. Would not make a bad sales stunt except it would be totally illegal.
Thanks for the comments on the Video, you are right about everything that you say here! I will check the calculator online later. I have run the KMX at 36V and it was very quick and the wind resistance seemed a lot less than the upright stance of the bike. I do know a couple of folks with a quest velo as well, this motor would run very well with these batteries in a velo.
As for the legality yes its something to consider esp when you are running at speeds of nearly 40mph on a bmx without using your legs! ha ha oops! I really wouldn't recomend anyone go that fast on a BMX its fun but not safe whatsoever.
The KMX will be set-up with one of my Kollmorgen motors at first so I can do a direct comparison with the Puma motor, If I dont see 40-50mph on the Kmx (with a taller gear on my USPD) I would be surprised however I don't want to go that fast on a 3 wheeler with no suspension.
So this weekend hopefully will be a shorter film on the KMX with external video and front and rear shots with GPS in camera shots, I am going to plan it a little better than just turning up and filming this time, trying to improve things with every film I make.
The missing link.
Like that! thanks for the link very useful!!
I see what you mean! I just entered in the KMX details thats quite something, with the stock gearing on the USPD and Kollmorgen I wont be able to do much more than 30mph at 48V but i would easily do 40 at 72V, however the power to do this would only be 600 watts?
So with 2 x lipos on the KMX and all conditions being Ideal allowing for efficiency losses of 10% or so I could see The following.
Stored (available Watt Hours in battery's) = 37v x 11 (ah) x 2 =814 watt hours.
814/600=1 hr 35 mins run time at 40mph, 40x1.35=54 miles.
54 Miles at 40 Mph! wow :-) now lets do the same sum for this magic 20 miles at 20mph figure people are always harping on about
well its easy! ha ha its almost exactly 1/6 of the power required! ha ha amazing :-)
so if my back could stand it I could do
814/125 = 6hr 25 mins run time at 20mph, 20x6.5=130 miles
130 miles at 20mph! he he now I know these are the best cases but jeez! that's some range or what :-) not sure I would want to run the KMX for 130 miles but it would be quite an amazing thing if you could.
There are efficiency factors and the fact that you will encounter hills and starting stopping etc that will knock this down but it is amazing, you could claim back the efficiency losses by peddling lightly.
Amazing, thanks so much for the link very very interesting
The voltage rating of the fuse really doesn't matter until it blows. But with a higher battery voltage, the controller will output a much higher current to the motor at low speeds. That's what's popping the fuses.
I would suggest trying 50 or 60 amp fuses. In theory, you only need to put fuses on two of the three phase wires.
The fuses should only blow when the controller or motor malfunctions. The current limiter in the controller should never allow enough current to blow the fuse under normal conditions.
It is also possible to add a couple of resistors to reduce (or make adjustable) the current limit in that controller. I thought using one of the key switches to go from high to low settings would be nice (dork/cop switch).
With 100% efficiency and correct gearing, 600 watts will get you to 26mph. With perfect efficiency, 40mph requires 2000 watts.
2) my ammeter tells me I need ~25-30 amps at 64 volts (1600-1900) watts to sustain 35mph.
so for your rig:
814wh /2000 watts x 80% eff = 0.32 hours
0.32 hours x 60 min/hr = 20 minutes
0.32 hours x 40mph = 13 miles (agrees with generally observed 1 ah/mi during hard, no pedal riding)
Yes that calculator is pretty amazing! very useful for gauging what you need and Fechter is right on the fuses blowing its the low speed open throttle that is blowing the fuses. Its the same on the KMX with the Kollmorgen motors, the motors are fine as are the controllers. One thing the new 4835 controllers have lost the soft start feature that they used to have, which is a shame as I think this is what's popping the fuses.
Someone made a throttle smoother that ramped the throttle up slowly, that would be nice at 72V.
Sadly I cant get blade fuses in the ATC/ATO type in 50A so I will have to fit maxi fuse carriers or not bother, oh well I guess I was being a little over protective with them.
The KMX is a real laugh I havent got a working speedo on it yet but it was sure doing 40+mph at 72V which is a little scary, I must get to the running track and try it out.
All the best
I'm knackered!! ha ha
I didn't bother with fuses on my setup. Just an extra resistance loss to me.
I am working on the current mode controller adapter that will work with that controller.
There is also a way to slow down the ramp up by adding a capacitor to the circuit board, but my add-on adapter should work better.
Yes you are right, they have saved my controller a couple of times when I had a hall sensor plug problem that why I kept them in, you are right about the extra resistance though. You will have to let me know about the capacitor mod as I would like to soften it up a little to save spokes and fuses, I did a quick sketch at work of an inline circuit that may work will have to try it out.
well i'm waiting on mark now to price up that little rig you had on the bmx :)
going to put it on 20" s on my fs mtb - lets see how that goes, i figure if the clearence is too low (it will be 3") i will get 24's or a new frame.
Thanks goes out to paul for all his hard work on the puma - i would have probably walked away had his recent highlighting of the puma and lipos not materialised, so a big thanks paul.not looking forward to the bill but looking forward to the bike :)
will get some pics up when the kit arrives and will need you guys to help me build it for sure!!
wish me luck chaps, hoping to get some forest trailing on ebike very soon :)
What was the address to order one?
Do me a fav, use referral # 2724 If you order anything from e-ride (Greenwit). I want to see if they actually honour their referral program. Let me know as well please.