Does anyone know how to obtain any of these batteries ?? I found this company has some interesting batteries that are in the SLA size, shape, etc. but offers what looks to be DOUBLE the AMP HOURS, usinf Lithium technology. That would mean 1/2 the weight of batteries for EMAX owners, etc. According to one article it looks like Oxygen scooters will be using them soon to obtain 80+ miles of range.
http://powerelectronics.com/portable_power_management/batteries/
batteries-electric-scooters/
http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp
http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge%20RT%20DS%20Jan06.pdf
e-max batteries are 181x76x166 mm, but sure, it would indeed be nice to be able to pack in twice the capacity without increasing weight. The restarted e-max company has displayed a 14x90 Ah Thundersky cell configuration in a prototype. It can be done on an old e-max as well. They won't fit in the space where the SLAs sit now, would have to sacrifice some space under the seat.
The odd arrangment of the e-max battery boxes really limit the alternatives for battery improvements without going to custom packs. If valence would make a battery in the standard "20 AH lead-acid" size we would be way ahead.
Four of the U-charge U-1's could be used with some sacrificing of under seat space, but what would be the point? The U-charge batteries are bulkier (have a lower volumentric specific energy) than the existing e-max silicone-lead-acid pack and are breathtakingly expensive - for no more capacity.
The vaunted "silicone-snake-oil" batteries in one of my scoots seem to be on the decline; I have resigned myself to a set of BB EB-20-12's for my replacement pack or 60 volt upgrade.
Please someone correct me if I am wrong and help me see the big picture. I have recently bought a used 2006 Emax Sport and from reading around it says that it uses similar battery size to the EB-20-12's but are in PARALLEL to get the 40 amp hours and series to get 48 volts. These VALANCE batteries have a U1 size model U1-12RT that is rated at 40 Amp hours for a single battery. It is just a tad larger than the single EMAX battery, so could you not just use 4 of these batteries in series, have the same range as the standard Emax batteries and save weight ?? Sorry if this has been discussed before, but the older forum is down so I can't do a search and I have spent hours searching on the internet. Also I have not had the time to open my EMAX yet to see how the batteries are arranged, etc. I did drive it around yesterday and it was fun. I have not bought a helmet yet, so I did not top it out yet, but did take it to about 32mph and it seemed to have a little more, considering I weight 225 pounds. I also plan on making my EMAX run on 60 volts sometime next year to get it to run about 45mph+ which would be fine for me. So I would love to hear what you all think about these batteries.
http://www.pleiades-enterprises.bigstep.com/generic26.html
Oxygen vehicles powered by Saphion batteries are expected to be available starting late 2005, with volume production beginning in the first quarter 2006. Prices to be announced.
Peace Out,
Gman
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Here's the problem:
The e-max batteries are 181x76x166 mm or 7.12x3.0x6.54 inches (LxWxH).
The U-charge U-1's are 197x130x182 mm or 7.75x5.2x7.2 inches. But, of course, you only need four. However, four Valence U-1's have a bit more volume than the eight stock batteries, and no more capacity!
But let's say you still want to do it. Here are the details:
The e-max put's it's batteries in four separate battery boxes at different levels along the frame from under the front of the seat pedestal to over the rear wheel, as follows:
Box 1 - single battery sized - can't fit any U1's there
Box 2 - 9.00" wide by 10.12" long (4 batteries)- can _maybe_ squeeze two U1's here by modyfying the box a bit.
Box 3 - single-battery sized with no extra vertical clearance (frame crossmember) - can't use.
Box 4 - 7.12 wide by 6" long - constrained by frame dimensions - can't use!
So the only way to fit U-1's is to build a new battery box on the frame which stacks the batteries in a 2-1-1 arrangement under the seat. This like the EVT scooters, for which the U-1's would be a drop-in replacement. The e-max battery sizes and box arrangement were designed specifically for preserving the under-seat space available in the gas versions of such Kymco-style scooters - an improvement over the EVT's.
I personally use the under-seat space all the time and am not willing to sacrifice all of it, although a good bit of it will probably go with my 60V performance upgrade...
As you probably have concluded by now, - I've looked good and hard at using of Valence U-1's and concluded that it would be a lot of work and money for just some weight savings and very minimal performance increase - I'ts just not worth it.
I'f you want to use Li-ions, you will need to make custom packs with prismatic cells (14 cells = 52 volts) to fit in the existing batttery boxes - than you _can_ fit a lot more capacity (at least 60AH) and a bit more voltage, in the same battery box volume - but the price tag would be be $4.5K to $5.5K once you included the custom BMU's and chrger. Fuggeddaboudit! - for now anyway...
PJD thanks for the quick over view and lesson. I guess the only thing now is to just use the STOCK batteries till they go bad then replace them with the same size SLA's till the lithiums prices go way-way-way-way down !!! Then and only then would it be feasable to get better range and upgrade to 60volts.