dicanio's bike

Hello all,

After a lot of hanging around the forums and generally annoying the bejesus out of all the experienced guys here i'm finally taking the plunge by buying most of my setup tomorrow!!!! hurragh!!!
As most of you know i'm going to try to convert the fs mtb i currently have to 20" wheels and run it at 72v35a.
All of my kit will be coming from Mark at teamhybrid in the UK as this is where i'm based and i have opted for the very impressive puma motor (rear wheel) and two of those lovely but expensive lithium polymer 36v15ah batteries and a crystalyte 36-72v controller :)
My project is a little different to most of the bikes i have seen in that it will only be for off road use, mostly forest trails and singletrack so i am expecting more issues to overcome than a road user,that said i guess we will see if an electric bike can really cut it off road!!
i will blog my progress as to help anyone who is interested in this type of setup and to show that even an inexperienced/first time ebiker is capable of building a pretty good machine with the help of the guys found on this forum (big thank you to all of you who have helped me thus far).
I have attached the original concept picture i hacked together in paint - it's no picasso but this is what i intend to build and if the kit proves it's worth (please god) i will get a more specialised frame/forks etc to improve ground clearence and a few other issues i forsee.If my whole project falls flat on it's face then some of you guys who are UK based are going to be getting some real bargains on spares!!!! lol
Special thanks goes out to Knoxie,Buzzz,Dom,Steve and xyster for all you patience and help.
Wish me luck fellas - dicanio's bike is born!!!!!

20batt_500x500jpeg.jpg

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Comments

Good luck, EV Bro Dicanio :-)

I'll be watching your project's progress as I expect it'll serve as inspiration for my next, more off-road oriented ebike.

--xyster
moderator

My rides

hey xyster, thanks for the luck :)

Well, went to see Mark at teamhybrid today and have come home with a full kit except wheel - the hubs are here in the UK but they have to be laced and setup (knoxie has the only rear one good to go i think).
still another couple of weeks will give me time to mount the batteries and controller - by far the hardest initial task i think.
Apparently i'm the first puma kit customer in the UK :)
Mark was a great host and let me have a good nose round all the kit, he had saved me the lipo's as promised and so i've come home with 2 x 36v15ah lipo's, chargers, a 36-72v crystalyte immediate start controller, throttle, brakes , key switch. All i need now is one of those amazing puma's and i'm all set!!!
i will post some pictures when i get chance (i always find the website ones blurry and too small,need glasses maybe? ).
Tomorrow i will get the bike inside and start to plan how to best fit the gear i already have - i'm not expecting to be completely setup for a couple of months maybe as there are some bits i will want custom made to do a specific mounting job, but i'm itching to slap it on and let rip already....must be patient and build well i keep telling myself!!lol.

D

Hello DC

Glad that you got the stuff from Mark OK, dont rush your build its important that you make sure you build it properly as they are very powerful at 72V and will snap things and twist things easily! trust me I know.

One thing you need to watch it that the Xlyte controllers are not even remotely waterproof, you will need to cover it but not too much, as it will get warm, also I still think it is a good Idea to fit fuses in at least 2 of the phase wires as a sudden jerk of the throttle by someone or accidentally can cause a huge surge across the fets if the wheel is locked or weighted too much, I have blown 4 fets on the first controller doing this! so be careful although the fets are cheap and relativley easy to replace, fuses are even cheaper and easier.

You will though have to use Maxiblade fuses and fuse holders, you can get these anywhere, I would recommend 50A fuses, this will save the fets from blowing as It has done 3 times now on my other bikes, also make sure the controller is not subject to too much jarring or vibration, I mounted mine on the rear post and it has been fine as the arm of the rack provides some damping. The controllers are pretty tough units but its good practice to do this. As your ride is going to be full suss it wont be as much of a problem.

I went out on the electric BMX last night (delivering xmas cards!!) he he did 16 miles it was superb, didnt peddle once! had blasts of up to 35mph and only used 5AH for the 15 mile run, that's pretty good i reckon, also I accidentally shorted one of the lipo packs out, the BMS caught it and switched the pack off before the fuse blew! amazing, although the fuse is 50A and the BMS shut off at 40A so it is to be expected, but still proves it protected the battery and didn't blow my fuse.

Good luck with the build, if you are not sure ask don't assume!! I don't check in all that often on the forums at the moment due to work and social stuff but mail me and I will help you along.

Have fun, you simply wont believe just how amazing the motor is at 72V

Cheers

Knoxie

Hi Knoxie,

Thanks for checking in - i'll definately need your help if i'm going to get this right! I'm hoping that i will avoid a lot of the silly mistakes if i follow your tips and guidance,again many thanks for helping me with this project :)
i will go with the inline phase fuses as you suggest even though i dont know what a fet is lol! from the video's i had guessed that i wouldn't be able to just open the throttle right up from standstill - now i know why.Although my controller is immediate start is there anything to stop me pedalling to start then give some throttle? would this help alleviate the too much power too soon scenario ?
How did you short the lipo? what happens if the bms cuts in is there a reset?
Im hoping that someone will help me out with an idiots guide to wiring - i need to know a lot of info on this front, the controller is well labled and i'm ok roughly with what goes where but i have to start from scratch as my batteries have no connections at all on the output so i need info like which connectors to put on (powerpoles?) how do i wire in a drainbrain/wattsup ? where does the keyswitch wire to? how do i connect the batts in series - disconnect to charge etc.
Lots of questions again but all good stuff to blog i think so if someone new like myself tries a build there will be a lot of great info right here to support them - i will get some pictures up of the parts and bike today or tomorrow so everyone can actually see what i'm doing step by step and obviously give me feedback/advice as i go.
One thing i am fairly sure of is i don't want to mount the batteries on the bike.
I can't see any advantage to having the extra weight on the bike itself at all - it will make the bike lighter by 20lbs also - i know the 20lbs will be on my back lol but i think it make the handling soo much better, remembering your comment on how nimble the bmx is ( it has to be easier to flick the bike from side to side no?).
Not only will this take away a whole host of mounting issues i think they will recieve less jarring and shock in the rucksack than tightly bolted to the frame - also the icing on the cake is the bike is (motor aside) just a pedal bike to the eye - stealth is key to riding this bike hassle free.
I have had a few ideas on a quick release mechanism should rider become detached from the bike but i need to look into connectors that can handle the power from the batts to the controller and still come apart with a slight tug.
So much work to do to get things moving :( that said christmas will break up the build anyway so i'm not planning on getting to ride it this side of the new year - advice on build well headed mate!!
I'll go and dig out a camera and get some pics up so you can see what i'm planning - and warn me not to :)

Cheers all.

D

Hi DC

The Fets are field effect transistors, they regulate the power to the motor, the Xlyte controller has 4 fets per phase so there are 12 in total, even though the fets are very hard wearing they can blow if misused or overvolted, the 72V controller you have has 100V 75A fets in and 160V capacitors so you could theoretically run a lot more power through the controller, however I wouldn't recomend putting any more than 72V through a Puma motor.

You will be ok starting without peddling just go easy on the throttle its kinder on everything if you do this, the newest batch of Xlyte controllers don't soft start like the used to, however you can modify the controller internally to give you a softer acceleration curve, Fechter has done this on his controller I believe?

My battery bag has the 2 x lipos in standing on their sides, it was dark and instead of plugging the positive to the next battery negative (72v in series) I picked the wrong lead and shorted the battery out!! sure the Anderson connector looks a little sorry for its self right at the end but it still works fine and more importantly the BMS cut the battery.

You cant use a watts up at 72V as it only goes to 60V, the drain brain will work fine, the drain brain shunt simply goes in between the battery and the load, you get full wiring instructions with the unit so you cant go wrong.

I agree with you the batteries are a little heavier at 20lbs but I don't have any problems having them on my back at all, to be honest I don't think it would unsettle the bike too much as I regularly carted around 40lbs of lead acid!!

You don't have to worry as I will give you as much help as you need to get you on the road just ask the question and I will get back to you, if your worried I will give you my mobile phone number when you build and I will help you on the phone.

As long as you are careful and sensible you will have little problems I am sure and lots of happy miles at good speed.

Take care

Knoxie

Hi Guys,
haven't been able to get much done lately,too busy at work and not much spare social time either!!
However did manage to get the camera from the loft and take some pictures of my kit - hopefully it will be easier for you guys to see what i'm up to and advise me on what you think!!
ok lets start with some pics as i've more kit to order yet and then i'll fire a few questions if that's ok.

ok donor bike 26" fs mtb.....donor.jpg
£300 at local decathlon megasnore.

lipo's 2 x 36V15ah....(like liposuction but cash is sucked out)....lipo_s.jpg

controller crystalyte 36-72v immediate start.....controller.jpg

accesories.........throttle_levrs_key.jpg
i must say the grip and throttle are horrible (must find a way to get some old skool odi mushrooms on there :) - man,that's the grip for me)

this is where i plan to mount the controller - it fits perfectly and doesn't make the bike any wider at all....controller_mounted.jpg
i figure that i will just give it some rubber seating and clamp using u brackets and locknuts......slimview.jpg
im hoping it will be partially encased too by this,lmao :)....seat.jpg
i wasn't kidding on the seat lol

i'm hoping that my wheel should arrive early in the new year and i can start getting it all together :)
i do have a few other bits lined up to buy (seat/guards etc) but i'm going to focus on getting it mechanically right before i buy the cosmetic stuff.
whilst i'm waiting for the wheel i do have a few problems that i need to overcome,so..........i need to solder on the connections on to the batts and the controller - what do i buy? powerpoles?,must be rated for 50a?will i need connectors for for putting in the maxiblade fuse holder inline ? (i was thinking the waterproof ones knoxie?)
i also need to get my front wheel re-laced into a 20" rim retaining the original hub and disk - from what i've read this might be more difficult than i think,i'll see if i can get that sorted with a few calls 2moro see how the land lays :)
i do think that if the bike goes well i will have to look at the crank/derailer clearence problem (3"),i had considered going to 24" wheels again but i know the kind of performane i'm wanting so 20" is the best route for me right now.it's no problem to go single speed and get a shorter crank giving me back the two inches or so i need,seems quite straightforward enough to do.
anyway timme is short again gotta dash :)... if i don't hear from you guys,take care have a great christmas!!!!

D

Hi DC

Yes looking good, you are going for the rear wheel option then? I coulndt remember what you said, 30A Anderson connectors are fine, 50A fuses are Maxiblade not to confused with mini blade, Maplin or RS stock the inline holders for them. I get my powerpole connectors from powerrx in the states, the strong pound means its cheaper than here in the UK.

Time is a little short here also!! ha ha been having far too much fun on the KMX its ridiculously fast, those Lipos are performing amazingly I can recomend them highly enough to people. My KMX is producing so much power that the bearings inside loosened off!! incredible had to use bearing lock on them to get them to stay in and also liquid metal on the rotor as the rotor rotor shaft were starting to slip!! ha ha its pheonominal the power of that thing.

Good luck with the build I am doing nothing now until the new year, just drinking eating and riding my e vehicles!!

Have a great Xmas and dont worry about the build I will help you

Knoxie

Hi Knoxie,

thanks for the info - i will go and buy all the connectors i need from maplins as i have one locally and i'm far too impatient to wait for a delivery from abroad :) yes rear wheel for me, i did toy with 24" but im sticking with 20" now,i plan to go single speed and get a shorter crank arm if i need to.
i will have to keep a regular eye on the bike by the sounds of it make sure that nothing is working loose and everything is a1.Can't wait to get things started but have to get christmas out of the way first!!
I haven't managed to look into a place to re-lace my front wheel yet - who did you use ?,also i can only find the seat i want on american mx sites and they don't deliver to the uk :( will have to look harder in blighty i guess.
Anyway things to do and all that - next time i will have my connections done and get some more pics on of progress so far - hopefully my wheel will be here soonish, i mailed mark but haven't had a response yet - hopefully he is too busy selling puma's hand over fist!!

Everyone have a great christmas and new year!!!!
all the best...

D

Dicanio,

What connectors do you plan to buy from maplins? Be careful not to use standard blade connectors as they won't work properly and might melt. As a temporary measure you could use 30 amp screw in connectors which you can get from maplins. You could also use large ring connectors.

Hi Nick,Guys

Hope you all had a good christmas :)
haven't done a stroke on the bike :( lol been busy visiting and doing the chasing around you need to do on week days so not much to report as far as progress goes, however looking at the sites for connectors i will order the powerpoles from here (maplins wasn't very clear to tell what's what)..... http://www.powerwerx.com/product.asp?ProdID=3017&CtgID=3014
(knoxie thanks for the site but i dont understand how the 30a connectors will suffice if it pulls 40+A ?, but anyway if you say 30 i'll get the 30a ones.)
and then i will get these for the phase fuses?.... http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=MAXI%20BLADE&menu=0&WorldSearch=Y&doy=29m12&ShowPics=true&Stock=28&MinPrice=0&MaxPr...
and put in 40a fuses (max for holder and cable).
i thought that this was you had on the bmx knoxie and ended up taking them out as they kept blowing?do you think that the 36v? rating of the fuses on the bmx caused them to blow more than the amp draw?
it is a big disadvantage for me with the build not understanding the amp draw and rating needed - i would have guessed that everything needed 40a minimum rating?
anyway let me know if these are what i should be using and i'll get them - oh there was a crimp tool tool too if i need it? i think crimp and solder ?
By looking at knoxies vid i think i know how to wire in the maxiblade holders between the motor and controller connectors,and i'm pretty happy with all the other connections but i still dont know where you wire in the keyswitch ?
As soon as you guys confirm what i need i'll order it and get cracking on the wiring side - i haven't heard from mark yet so i don't know when the wheel with be with me - the more i think about the rear 20" the more i think i will go with a single speed sprocket, i need to raise ground clearence and losing the derailer will help an awful lot - as pedaling at speed isn't a major concern i figure if i can get the gearing of a bmx (14t sprocket?) that will be just fine.Will it be possible for me to pedal and throttle at the same time from standstill increasing acceleration? im hoping so.
This will leave me with a strange setup as i'll be single speed in the rear but still have 3 gears on the crank - it wont bother me and i'm guessing it will give me some sort of gearing but again on the clearence side of things i may change it for a single speed crank with shorter arms - if anyone knows about gearing please advise on whats a good combination front and rear and how do i tell what type of crank i have?(happy that it's 3 piece or single piece but what measurements do i need to replace it?)
each thought leads to ten questions lol :)

right, got to to get this build moving so any input welcome guys - lets see if we can get the bike to perform :)

D

Get 45 amp powerpoles if you can, but like knoxie says 30 amps is ok. For wire get the largest you can that will fit into the powerpoles, which is y its better to have 45 amp PP's. Soldering is imho much better because the copper oxidises with crimping. Maxi fuses are good. I don't recommend the key switch (crystalyte model) if your going to draw loads of amps coz they melt :) , you can get 100 amp continuos key switches from auto parts stores, they're used by rally cars to cut the power and save the battery when theyr'e not being raced

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