Ebike Acceleration Test Video

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xyster
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Ebike Acceleration Test Video

Just shot this a couple hours ago. It should work on any machine with flash 8 or later, but if it doesn't, here's the less well compressed: windows media version

As you can hear in the vid, I'm playing catch-up to my cold, running nose. Sniffle, sniffle...

reikiman
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What kind of batteries?

The specs sound suspiciously like the A123 cells?

BTW, I was able to take my e-bike out for the first spin in a long time today, but it's pretty anemic compared to what you have. I've got a pair of dewalt packs, so 33 volt nominal, 5 AH (or so), with a WE 36 brushed motor. The interesting thing about this bike is the xtracycle frame and I used it to go grocery shopping today. And a lot of people took notice of it.

- David Herron, http://www.7gen.com/

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

xyster
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Not a123, unfortunately, 225

Not a123, unfortunately, 225 of the 2.2ah version of these in 15s15p config, plus 16 of of these 2.0 ah batteries in 1s16p config in series with the other 15s. I'll be adding another 20-30 volts of emoli's soon, and will do another test like this to compare, as well as hill tests, slalom tests, underwater tests...:-)

--xyster
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dom
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Hi Xyster Vid didn't work

Hi Xyster
Vid didn't work properly for me unfortunately -but saw about half using WMP before crashing (not enough server room -something like that)
That is a very silvery looking bike haha! Would luv to see the rest of the vid though!
Can you link it elsewhere?

Cheers Dom

xyster
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U Dom-man

Hi Dom. I just tested both versions and they're working OK for me. But I'm on a mac with a very old version of wmp, and some third-party wmv export software. Was it the embedded mp4, or the wmv that crashed your wmp? If it was the wmv version, I'll perform another export using the wmadvanced codec -- I won't be able to see the results in this case without jumping through a bunch of hoops to boot windows in emulation, so hopefully someone here can tell me if it worked better! I'd also like to know for future ref. Thanks :-)

knightmb
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Handy man's secret weapon?

Was all of that the handy man's secret weapon of duct tape? Red-green would be proud :-)

reikiman
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YouTube?

YouTube is able to pull in "any" video and turn it into Flash.

- David Herron, http://www.7gen.com/

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

xyster
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I know, I prefer the

I know, I prefer the me-tube, self-host method.

--xyster
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xyster
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Another duh

I should just post these in flash format myself.

--xyster
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xyster
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I exchanged the embedded mp4

I exchanged the embedded mp4 with a flash movie -- it's supposed to have vid player buttons, and it does in my programming environment, but not after I access the vid from here. So if someone can let me know if they see video control buttons overlaying the video, that'd really help me troubleshoot.
Thanks!

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knightmb
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I tried all the parameters

I tried all the parameters listed on the Adobe website as well, no go. They (Adobe) needs to document these objects better. Must be a flash8 thing, LOL.

xyster
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I think I fixed the flash

I think I fixed the flash problem!
Duct tape is god's gift to those who lack talent, time, and tools -- explaining the reason my bike is practically wrapped in it. That, and I prefer it look confusingly junkie to would-be thieves.

--xyster
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dom
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Hi Xyster Yes -there is

Hi Xyster
Yes -there is control overlay -cool!
Had to reload the thread twice -went the whole way thru 2nd time round.
MyTube eh!! LOL
A little annoying that it fires the vid up as soon as you enter the thread -but very innovative all the same -i don't think i've seen a vid that loads like that before!

Top job my man

Cheers Dom

xyster
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Thanks, Dom You're right

Thanks, Dom
You're right about the auto-load. I come back to this page and the video plays, even if I'm only here to write a reply. Very annoying indeed! It either needs to start only after the play button is pressed, or it needs mind reading capabilities. I can't find my hack for that, so I'll try and figure out how to nix the auto load.

--xyster
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dicanio2
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guys i'm not sure why but i

guys i'm not sure why but i can't find my where the hell is everybody post so im just gonna paste my reply here- hope that's ok brother xyster :)

Hey Dom :)
lol yeh just the six months to decide - i was telling knoxie i hadnt really seen anything that convinced me i could get the thrill i was looking for (batts or motor) (x5 maybe) so i was gonna leave it, then the new motor came out and pauls vids and comments made me think that the puma with 72v lipo should zip me through the woods nice and quick :) (original laugh out loud build photo of mtb with thin mx seat still applies)
I bought a plasma tv with the money earmarked for the bike lol :) ( man high def is superb) but i managed to keep enough hidden from the mrs to get my kit ;p
mark at team hybrid has my two lipo's in stock and the motor will be here at the end of this week (at sea at the moment mark sais).when all the gears here Mark will be recieving prompt payment and the exact kit that was on the bmx will be on it's way into my eager sweatty hands - interestingly enough the bikes will be very similair in weight (64lbs ish) but im 50 lbs lighter that knoxie (knoxie is normal, im puny) so i expext my setup to fly!!!!
Nice to see you still around - tell buzz to stop by!!
Xyster - im liking the forum, i just assumed that everyone from v would just come straight over,obviously steve and knoxie had posted but i just wondered what happened to dom buzz et al as i expected a lot more chat about the new motor/vids and when i looked here no one had posted for days :o didn't mean to slate the new forum if thats how it sounded :)
ooooh i nearly forgot i was reading stuff magazine the other day and there was a small article on how the electric bike was getting to the standard to truly appeal :) if i get chance later i'll paste the excert up.

D
(does the kit coming soon dance) :)

knoxie
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Great

Hi Xyster

Great video watched it the first time you posted and replied but the board did not accept my password?
anyway great video and an impressive turn of speed as well, I like the bike its unorthadox but cool in a way that only e-bikers can understand! he he. Great to see other people posting vids as well, I love them :-) I ought to learn and make mine a bit shorter, I have a few new tools under my belf for the next film, I have Adobe After Effects and Ultra 2 for some snazzy key frame work, so expect the unexpected in the next movie.

Went out on the BMX again it just seems to get faster and more fun, also the Puma runs cooler a lot cooler than my Kollmorgen motor at 72V and seems more powerful, I think 48V is the limit on the Kol motor to be safe. The Puma is a stonker, I have the Lipo batteries in this little bag you see here on the KMX, its more discrete, the KMX is stupidly fast! ha ha but great fun and a real head turner, it gets up to 45-50 in no time and I dont feel happy going any further with it its too twitchy without some sort of steering damper.

Anyway this is the KMX all hooked up, I reckon at 18-20mph you co72v_kmx.jpguld do 100 miles on this according to tha calc you can anyway, if you stayed alive for that long :-)

Cheers for the great video, get more up when you can, I want to see e-bike snow videos!! we never get enough here but I really want to make one, I am guessing Portland Oregon may get a little bit of snow this year??

All the best Xyster and big thanks for the video

Knoxie

xyster
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Hi Knoxie,Wow! That KMX is

Hi Knoxie,
Wow! That KMX is one cool, unorthodox beast. Too bad about the steering twitchies, it *looks* like it could safely do ~100kph with a 503 at 5000 watts, which would be minimum power to reach that speed, and on the outside of what an x5 could handle continuously. Hmmm....new video maybe? :-) Do you have any idea the real-life cycle life of those lipos?

My camera has just enough memory for 7 minutes of 640x480 30fps video, and I'm hosting it so I had to keep it brief. For our subject matter, 5-10 minutes of smartly edited video feels about right to me, personally. Too much longer and, unless it's really packed with juicy info, I start to skip ahead in the video.

We do occasionally receive brief bouts of snow in Portland, but much less in recent years -- mostly just a few, on-and-off, non-sticking skiffs between December and January. I don't know if I'm up to a snow video anyway. The other day, I dropped the bike while making a tight turn. Lifting it quickly with one hand on the throttle, ZOOooom, ZOOooom, ZOOooom, down we went like Republicans in November, the bike kicking my legs out from under by the spinning hubmotor :-).

I'm making another battery purchase to get the bike back up to 72volts, and to see if the resistance will drop enough to pull 35amps in the cold. That deserves a video, me thinks. Later, I'll add an emoli boost back to bring it up to 92 volts or so -- deserving of a couple videos, wouldn't you say?

Looking forward to more from across the pond...one day I'll make a Wimbledon trip!

xyster
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knoxie
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KMX

Hi

Yes its a fun bike to ride if a little sketchy above 35mph, still its unfair to criticise it as it was never designed to be peddled at 35mph, its ok if you don't peddle, peddling unsettles it badly over 30mph. Not sure about the life cycle of the Lipos, I should have some more info on the BMS for those packs soon though and some manufacturing pictures as people have been asking.

You want to get your video on to google, you can do any length and they host not you! I agree though the shorter the better 5 mins is enough, I need to learn that. Band luck about dropping the bike, I now wear a full face helmet during the winter its warmer and much safer as the chance of dropping the bike is far higher.

Be interesting to pump 92V in to one as it would be with the PUMA motor, however I think that 72V is more than enough and 48V is actually ideal in my opinion.

I have taken delivery of a rear wheel PUMA today for testing! I need to get it laced in to a 26 Inch rim by a local wheel builder, I can then hot swap it in and out of the KMX or my Trek, should give people a good idea what they can expect from a Puma in a 26 Inch wheel in a bent or bike.

I think it will go past 40mph in a 26 inch wheel at 72V, 40-43mph is what I am guessing, I wasn't far off with the BMX! he he.

Thanks again for the video, I look forward to seeing more of the bike and your surroundings which look really nice!

Take it steady!

Knoxie

xyster
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I agree 72v at 20+ amps is

I agree 72v at 20+ amps is generally sufficient for traveling most terrain at a good clip. Not having enough disposable savings to pay for multiple e-rides, I wanted to assemble a bike that I could pedal for exercise and slow trips through the country, and as a commuter that can keep up with 35mph traffic around here. I'm disappointed my batteries seem to provide only 30-32 amps in the winter. There's no point in modifying my controller for ~50 amps yet. So to increase power over 3kw, the minimal amount to keep up with traffic ascending steep hills it seems, my least expensive option is to increase the voltage up to the limit of the controller. In a few years, when it's time for new batteries, I'll modify the controller to provide 5kw. I foresaw this issue. I wanted to buy a torque-ier 5305, but I couldn't find one without special ordering it. In other words, my quest for higher voltages is a function of my desire for more hill climbing power, not higher top speed.

As far as posting videos on google or youtube, I'll be not a slave to any mega-server! My camera shoots 7 minutes of DVD quality 640x480 video. I prefer to post videos in other, higher rez formats, using interactive flash features, etc. To maximize view-ability, I need control over compression parameters third party video warehouse facilities do not provide. I'm still playing with flash and compression combos, so my next vid I hope will be much clearer. In other words, it's video quality over quantity for me.

--xyster
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Gman
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i can't find my where the hell is

dicanio2,
I'm sorry your post was removed because it was off topic, it was posted in Administration and Advocacy/ Organizational Planning. As hard as I tried I could not find anything in the post about Organizational Planning. I did leave a note that has since been removed saying the post had been removed and why. We hope to have a General Discussion are in the near future, and your post can be placed there. I still have a copy of the post if you need it.

Peace Out,
Gman

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

knoxie
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Power

Hi Xyster

Some interesting comments, I agree with you on the Video thing, I have no way of hosting big clips any more and when I used to do it they would have shut me off on bandwidth as I think I had 400 plays in 1 week of a 20 min video, they wouldn't stomach that at most places for a 10 dollar a year host, but I agree your quality is much higher.

I am surprised that you are disappointed with your batteries? that's very good for lithium Xyster? what's the full spec on the cells? You may find looking at the torque curve for the X5 that it may not increase that much more with higher volts however you will get a faster flat speed, I find this with my motor it only climbs hills a bit faster than at 24V! but on the flat it holds 32mph, it depends on the motor but I am sure I read that of the X5? maybe on power assist?

The Puma will do 36mph in a 20 inch wheel at 25 amps 72V which is pretty amazing stuff, my uspd is going to have to work hard to stay on the bike for much longer with those kind of figures.

The Puma has a high level of hill climbing torque Xyster as you saw on the video, its hard to compare it though without running side by side, higher volts will help, you can run about 92V on that controller, any more and your going to maybe have problems, 72V is a bit much for the Puma and way to much for the Kollmorgen, its not efficient on the Kollmorgen and gets hot very quickly, the Puma is much better at 72V.

I needed to get and do some work on the rear wheel tonight but got bogged down in something else for someone else as usual, I will try and get back on to e bike work tomorrow night.

Again thanks for the video great to watch the silver dream machine in action!

Knoxie

xyster
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The extra voltage provides

The extra voltage provides for the same torque at a higher rpm, which means faster acceleration and more hill climbing power. Both amps and voltage increase power, which makes climbing hills easier/faster and acceleration quicker.
Real world example: at 64 volts, my bike's top speed on the flats is about 35mph, but it slows to 24mph up a 10% grade. At 76 volts, level ground speed is proportionately more at ~42mph, and my bike at 76 volts climbed the same hill 4mph faster (28mph).

These numbers agree almost exactly with the bike speed calculator:
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Input:
Watts=1800 (64v x 35a x 80% eff)
Weight of rider = 177lbs, bike = 86lbs
Output:
speed up 10% grade = 24.2mph

Input:
Substituting 2182 watts (76v x 35a x 80% eff),
Output:
the calculator says speed up 10% grade = 27.1 mph

So either extra volts or amps will do the trick, but xtra voltage has the benefit of lowering system resistance, while not taxing the batteries any harder than before (all else being equal). V is for VaVoom.....!

--xyster
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xyster
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Hi again, knox-man. You

Hi again, knox-man. You asked about the cell specs. 225 (255 in a couple days :-) cells are the 2200mah version of these:
http://all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=556
in 15s 15p config (17s 15p in a few days). Strangely, all-battery doesn't advertise these cells yet; the 2200mah cell they advertise is different than this one. I've ordered the 2000mah version twice now, receiving a "free upgrade" both times :-).
And 16 cells are these 2000mah:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3070
in 1s 16p config in series with the other 15 (soon to be 18s in total).
These are the chargers:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1231
bought at $9/per.

Though I doubt there's really much if any difference, the AB cells are spec'd for 1.5C, and the BS cells 2C. In reality and in this configuration, they're performing as 1C cells.

When researching my battery options at the V, batteryuniverisity, and elsewhere, I saw if cared for these lithiums could end up costing less per lifetime distance ridden than either SLA or NiMH/NiCD (and a ton less than gas/car upkeep, or public transportation). With a 12% off coupon too, and hearing of Aerowhatt's SLA/18650 hybrid pack success, I just couldn't justify not giving them a try. When it's time to replace my scooter's SLA's, I'll probably buy these again, this time planning around a 1C limit (so perhaps a 48v 13s20p pack).

--xyster
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knoxie
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Cool

Ok

Yes all points taken there Xyster, certainly looks like you have done your research very well on this as well, I wasn't sure about the motor torque but it sounds reasonable to me! I find with my Kol that it still bogs down a little on really steep hills? it still goes up them at 18-20mph but when it will do 30 on the flat you feel it could do a little better, guess I am just pushing it to the limit. I am not knocking it as its a very reliable servant and has done me very well up to now.

The new Geared brushless hub motors look like the golden ticket for me, I cant wait to put some serious mileage and abuse on my rear ahem (wheel), I am going to have 3 active electric rides to play on (4 if you include the BMX, which is on loan essentially) ha ha so I do have lots of choices, its just a shame the weather is so terrible that I can only really take the Trek out to play as its the only one that is really weather proof!

Have a good day, almost the weekend better start writing my Xmas cards! ha ha

Cheers

Knoxie

dicanio2
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gman not a problem, i will

gman

not a problem, i will try to post in the right place in future - nooby error :)
Knoxie - did you get my message about needing some more info on the puma?
i'm not sure on derailer issues and also Mark seems to think that i can get a 5speed freewheel and disk on 135mm dropouts - can you confirm?

cheers

D

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