Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

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GrooveConnection
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Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

O h b o y !

I can't believe that everytime I work on this machine I find myself baffled by the shoddy worksmanship of this scooter!

After having a flat a number of weeks ago I focused today on removing the rear wheel in order to change the mangled tire.
Guess what I found:

The "axles" had indeed turned their flat surface by about 45 degrees (see pics) almost ripped off the motor cable and made the rear wheel stuck in its position. After I attempted to dislodge the wheel by at first gently tapping, then applying more force in a horizontal direction with a hammer/ rod combo (using the nut as a buffer), it papears as I have now a BENT AXLE or something (see the gap in the picture...)

I mean how much force do you need to make this whole axle array bend like that?

Turns out that the right shoulder side of the wheel moved first, yet the other side (where the motor cable is) did never ever move even a millimeter!

HELP!!

I hope I don't have to start shopping for a used E-MAX motor.....I think I can't get that on ebay.. :O :( :jawdrop:

GrooveConnection
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

Ok let's try this picture thing again (it appears that the script will not give me the ADD option at all, only the DELETE button...I can't use the shortcut since I operate a MAC...weird...

Ok let's try again:

Nothing - not even the Image link appears (IE) !!!
What's going on!!??

Sturdly
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

I had the same problems using Safari. I tried and tried everything I could think of but no posting of pic's was possible. I could see the buttons and prompts on a printed copy of the screen view but not on the screen itself. Finally I downloaded the Mozilla Firefox browser. Problem solved. Now I hardly ever use the Safari.

PJD
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

Why didn't you break the axle free from the fork drops, the same way it got that way, with torsional force? That is, apply a wrench to the flat spots of the axle and turn.?

You would have had to hammered pretty hard to bend the axle.

I have been worried about this myself, so I drilled a hole through the fork drops behind the axle and placed a #10 or 4mm screw and nut through it. See the photo. It is also very important to assemble nuts and spacers properly, and torque the axle nuts to specifications with a torque wrench. tighten in increments, with a reaction wrench on one of nuts while torquing the other.

//i109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/PJD123/RearForkSmall.jpg)

PJD
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

You put pictures on your posts by posting the picture on photobucket of other photo-sharing web sites, then type the URL for the picture between IMAGE(   ) tags....

ILBCNU
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

GrooveConnection,

There are some versions of I.E. that do not seem to work with our forum. You might try upgrading or change to Firefox. The error you spoke of has been found by others and most changed to Firefox and the problem went away.

Here are your pictures so everyone can see them;



ILBCNU
V is for Voltage
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Chas S.
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Fechter
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

Oh, that's ugly.
I wonder if the axle actually twisted inside the hub? Looks like it.
Perhaps it's made from recycled beer cans or pot metal.

You might try twisting the axle by double nutting it. If you could find a fairly thin nut that fits the thread and spin it on, but not all the way down to the swingarm, then put another nut on and tighten the two nuts against each other, leaving a gap to the swing arm. Then you could twist the axle without damaging the threads. Put a wrench on whichever nut will be in the tightening direction to turn the axle.

GrooveConnection
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

Okay, two more pics of the "operation":

See the grooves that have been carved into the slide rails by the twisting motor?
Had I not had this flat, it will have worn out enough till the motor could perform a full rotation, obliterating the cable hookup.

E-Max-Axle1Wx.jpg

(Mamma mia, I can't wait till the chinese get their first round of a couple million recalls on their shittily crafted crap-o-la vehicles ;-)...............)

Brake dust did indeed not seem to pose a problem, there is a little deposit on the outer rim but that's it. (No wonder, this brake could hardly stop a chicken from crossing a street.

E-Max-Axle2W.jpg

Turns out that the motor seems to be rotating fine, I will report later on...

GrooveConnection
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

Here is a possible solution (oh and it's so friggin' simple..)

Had EMAX added this (photoshopped) Horizontal "Leveller" EMAXHorizLeveler1Wx.jpg

to the original Positioner which tells the motor exactly how to sit perpendicular to the driving direction

EMAXoriPositionerWx.jpg

(and I checked, there is plenty of space to add this in....) this one chino-screw-up would have been easily prevented.
Tell me if I'm not thinking this right.....

;-)

GrooveConnection
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

Now I hardly ever use the Safari.

Yep, sturdly, also correct, I use Firefox now and it poses no problems.
I think the site should support 2 of the most common browsers, as IE and Safari both had the same difficulty getting into the Drupal "jungle" ;-)

GrooveConnection
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Re: Pheewwww!

Ok final report,

seems the motor runs fine, it seems to have one spot in each revolution where there seems to be some small amount of "rub", meaning it will not run quite as free as in the rest of the circumference. But it's absolutely minute.
Took the baby up the street, within a few seconds it was at top speed...there is a god after all...pheeeww!

thanks everybody who took the time to post...I followed the advice of a couple of smart boardmembers and - off we go again!!

;-)

PS: Boy - talk about changing my first MICHELIN S 85 manually - without a tire changer...well that's my workout for today!

George J Jones Jr
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

GrooveConnection,
I agree, I was not aware there was a problem using IE.
I'll look into it.

Best Regards,
George J. Jones, Jr.
Domain Registrant
georgejjonesjr [at] visforvoltage.org

`

Best Regards,
George J. Jones, Jr.
Domain Registrant
visforvoltage.net

PJD
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

The function of the "positioner" is to be a safety backup to prevent the motor from coming off the nuts loosen. I'm don't understand how adding another one that is cut open would help.

Look at my picture again. A screw through the drops clamps them down, removes most of the torsional slop between the axle and the fork-drops and prevents the problem.

GrooveConnection
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

PJD,

look again, at both pics:

The original one holds (as it does now), the motor axle in its horizontal position.
The (added) cut open one prevents the axle from rotating, nothing more than that. It must be exactly as wide as the FLAT part of the axle.
Since the motor "rail" was manufactured very much too wide, in typical china fashion (or designed for a wider axle insert) this would be a simple solution.
If I had a machine shop, I'd make one just like it...

OR:

The other solution could be inserting a little sheet of metal, like hinted at below:

EmaxInsertWx.jpg

Please note that the brown graphic does not correctly showcase the fact that this "sheet insert" must be exactly as wide as the rail itself!
It could be inserted once the motor is mounted and gently "tapped" in place with a hammer or such....

mf70
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Re: Bad news: E MAX motor in jeopardy

The problem, of course, is how to deal with the counter-torque of the motor's power. Brakes have long had a torque arm rigged for this purpose, but you'd need a wider non-rotating base to anchor it in this case.

The shim would work, as long as the swing arm fork didn't widen under pressure. The bolt idea would both keep the wheel from falling out and reinforce the fork.

Mark

garygid
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Re: Replace the Keeper for E MAX motor Axle

Is there a similar design flaw (of not holding the "flats" of the
axle properly) on the XM-3500li, or on the XM-5000li?

Do they keep the axle from turning in the same manner, or do
they have a "keeper" like the one suggested and pictured above.

If one made such a keeper, it would be better to make it a complete
circle, of a bit larger outer diameter (if clearance permits) for
added strength, with the two correctly-dimensioned flats on the inside,
and use the new "keeper" to replace the current "positioner".
I would also make it up to twice as thick, if there is sufficient room.
One is trying to achieve considerable strength in keeping the axle
from turning.

Something like this:
AxleKeeperGg.jpg

Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

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