Australian Vectrix Questions

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Aircon
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Anyone bought tyres for their Vectrix in Melbourne? Need a rear at 12,000km. No idea where to go. I assume removing the wheel is quite different to a normal scooter, so someone who's already had the experience would be nice.

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Paul
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Hi Aircon
The Pirelli tyres are quite available, I just asked my local bike shop and Juppy had them in within a week. Your tyre lasted well, I usually get about 6000km from a back tyre.

To remove the back tyre/rim:

1. Before you lift the bike, crack the 13mm nuts around the hub on the brake-disk side(RHS) of the back wheel.
2. If you don't have a centre-stand, jack up the bike with a car jack and then use a sturdy full-width block to rest the bottom of the bike on, as close to the back wheel as possible. You may need someone else to help balance the bike as you jack up and chock the bike.
3. Remove the two bolts and lift the brake calliper away.
4. Undo and remove the bolt at the bottom of the RHS shockie.
5. Remove the chrome plastic cover at the axle. 3mm? Allen key required for grub screw below and to the right of the cap.
6. You will need a large socket (30mm) to remove the nut on the RHS of the axle. Remove the spring and flat washer behind the big nut.
7. Undo the four 13mm nylock nuts and washers which hold the RHS of the swing arm on.
8. You should be able to swing the shockie and brake calliper away to enable the removal of the RHS of the swing arm. You will find a small saddle which retains the brake line to the swing arm, leave this on, the whole lot will hang no problem.
9. Fully undo the nuts which retain the wheel rim onto the hub. Make sure you mark the position of the rim to keep balancing as good as it can be.
10. You should be able to move the rim/tyre out from the bike now.

Reverse the process to put the bike back together.

Cheers

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Paul

kingcharles
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

step 6 is 27mm nut on my bike.
I happened to remove the wheel yesterday for a tyre change :-)

when you put it back together please note 2 things:
1) its all aluminium so use a torque wrench!
2) the wheel nuts need to go on with the round side first. dont mix them with the nuts of the swingarm!

before step 1 remove the 2 (gray) plastic covers which cover up to the swingarm. it is only 2 screws and it makes it much easier to jack up the bike and work on it.

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Aircon
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Thanks for the tips guys. I found this from Oobs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ID3qUTYBU

Paul, What is Juppys?

R
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Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1391
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Aircon, are micheli Tyres avaiable?
I use
front: Michelin gold standard (discontinued), 26.000 km on it.
Rear: Michelin City Grip, 11.000km on it.
http://www.michelin.es/moto/michelin-city-grip

BigTony
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

I have two Vs, one has Michelins and one has Pirellis.
The one with Pirelli's rolls into corners like a fighter jet comapred with the one with the Michelins, but the Michelins last a lot longer.
I would be very carefull letting a Bike shop near it.
I did it once and when I had to take the the back wheel off a few weeks later all the fasteners were torqued up way too tight(rattle gun I suspect)..
So I just take the wheel in now days, get them to fit the tyre and balance it, and refit it myself.
Once you get the big socket to fit the rear axle, its easy and its a good time to give the area a good clean.

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Thanks for all the tips guys. I'll start asking around tyre places to see who's got what.

On an unrelated note, I've noticed an odd thing with my charging. Over a period of weeks, a full charge gives a lower and lower voltage at the end until yesterday, I have red light at 10km into a 20km trip. I made it ok. Of course everything was reset to zero with the red light coming on, and after I charged it it showed 147v, rode the 20km back and still had 132v, which would have been enough to ride another 20km.

Question is, why is every charge resulting in a lower and lower final voltage, which doesn't 'reset' until it's ridden to red light? After that, all is normal again....until next time.

Mik
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Aircon wrote:

Question is, why is every charge resulting in a lower and lower final voltage, which doesn't 'reset' until it's ridden to red light? After that, all is normal again....until next time.

I think it is due to under-estimation of the self-discharge-rate.

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antiscab
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Mik wrote:
Aircon wrote:

Question is, why is every charge resulting in a lower and lower final voltage, which doesn't 'reset' until it's ridden to red light? After that, all is normal again....until next time.

I think it is due to under-estimation of the self-discharge-rate.

The Laird's firmware fixes that

btw - I'm renting out my usb-CAN adapter for $10/week plus postage to Australian customers

on another note,

I've used Pirelli's for every one of my 4 rear changes and 3 front changes.

My normal bike tyre place were happy enough to fit them.
I think there is a video on youtube showing mostly how its done

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Mik wrote:
Aircon wrote:

Question is, why is every charge resulting in a lower and lower final voltage, which doesn't 'reset' until it's ridden to red light? After that, all is normal again....until next time.

I think it is due to under-estimation of the self-discharge-rate.

I always thought it charges to a particular voltage OR 30ah, whichever comes first....but there are other variables too? geez.

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

antiscab wrote:
Mik wrote:
Aircon wrote:

Question is, why is every charge resulting in a lower and lower final voltage, which doesn't 'reset' until it's ridden to red light? After that, all is normal again....until next time.

I think it is due to under-estimation of the self-discharge-rate.

The Laird's firmware fixes that

btw - I'm renting out my usb-CAN adapter for $10/week plus postage to Australian customers

on another note,

I've used Pirelli's for every one of my 4 rear changes and 3 front changes.

My normal bike tyre place were happy enough to fit them.
I think there is a video on youtube showing mostly how its done

Matt

I would have been tempted if I hadn't read the instructions and realised how over my head I'd be attempting it!

Sounds like Pirelli is the go. I found the video......I think I can manage the work myself, and I'll feel a lot more comfortable doing it than letting a tyre shop do it.

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Mik wrote:
Aircon wrote:

Question is, why is every charge resulting in a lower and lower final voltage, which doesn't 'reset' until it's ridden to red light? After that, all is normal again....until next time.

I think it is due to under-estimation of the self-discharge-rate.

Why can't it just charge until the battery reaches whatever its full charge voltage is, or 30ah, whichever comes first? Why add all the other variables?

I've got one price for my tyre so far. $90 fitted.

Aircon
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Which brings me to the next question. Wouldn't it be nice to have software that will allow you to dial up what maximum speed you want and what voltage you want to charge up to? Then you could put in whatever type/capacity battery you want and programme accordingly.

Paul
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Hi Aircon
Juppy is the proprietor of my local bike shop.
My bad, 27mm it is.

Cheers

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Paul

antiscab
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Points: 1598
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Aircon wrote:

Why can't it just charge until the battery reaches whatever its full charge voltage is, or 30ah, whichever comes first? Why add all the other variables?

That's what it does, and thats the problem.

The charger puts back in what came out when you were riding plus some to account for self discharge, unless pack voltage reaches target before then (which sets the fuel guage to full) or the pack temperature goes too high.

The problem is, the extra bit of charge put in to cover the self discharge, isn't enough.

With the official Vectrix firmware, you can't use voltage as a reliable fully charged indicator as the charge rate is too high.

The Laird's version of firm can and does though, which is one of the reasons so many use it.

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Aircon
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Joined: 12/23/2009
Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Hooray! I did it. I don't know why I was terrified...it couldn't have been much easier.

IMG_20120601_104542.jpg

IMG_20120601_131304.jpg

MEroller
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Yes, sometimes it is simply necessary to get your hands dirty and DO it in order to loose the fear of fiddling with your ride :-)

__________________

My (former...) ride: E-Sprit Fury (basis is the ZAP/Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Mods: Battery temp. gauge and battery heating (off the grid and off the battery), Kelly KEB72801X, reverse activated, luggage rack with topcase, HC Cycle Analyst, Emsiso BMS2405, 35mm² battery cables, now wrecked

pcarlson1979
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Hi, I'm not a Vectrix owner but I do like the look of the bike. I'm new to motorbikes, I have an Erider 8000w in Canberra, I currently have 7000km and both tires look fine. Paul above said he usually gets 6000km out of a rear tire?

Sorry to be a pain, but could you upload a photo of the *old* tire tread so I can compare, because my tire treads still look and feel pretty deep and I just have cheap no-name chinese tires. I've never had a road registered bike before and thought tires would last 50,000km like a car tire? Whoops. I guess not.

__________________

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS - 13 October 2012

"Scrappy" - Custom 48v Electric Dirtbike Conversion
20 Feb 2012: Bought 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM Motorcross Bike for $100
Motor: MARS ME0708
Controller: Alltrax AXE4844 400A controller
Battery: 16xCHL 50Ah LiFePo4 = 48v

Aircon
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

pcarlson1979 wrote:

Hi, I'm not a Vectrix owner but I do like the look of the bike. I'm new to motorbikes, I have an Erider 8000w in Canberra, I currently have 7000km and both tires look fine. Paul above said he usually gets 6000km out of a rear tire?

Sorry to be a pain, but could you upload a photo of the *old* tire tread so I can compare, because my tire treads still look and feel pretty deep and I just have cheap no-name chinese tires. I've never had a road registered bike before and thought tires would last 50,000km like a car tire? Whoops. I guess not.

I threw it away, sorry. It had 11,500km and was still roadworthy. Tyres on scooters and motor bikes don't last very long at all....at least that's my experience. The Pirelli is a pretty soft tyre...but that's just how I like it.

E-Rider has a new outlet in Victoria st North Melbourne.....there's a new model coming out at the end of the month. I'm going to check it out and either buy one OR do a Li conversion. I'm down to a range of just under 40km now.

MEroller
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Aircon wrote:

E-Rider has a new outlet in Victoria st North Melbourne.....there's a new model coming out at the end of the month. I'm going to check it out and either buy one OR do a Li conversion. I'm down to a range of just under 40km now.

Would that new model be THIS one?
erider Puma

__________________

My (former...) ride: E-Sprit Fury (basis is the ZAP/Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Mods: Battery temp. gauge and battery heating (off the grid and off the battery), Kelly KEB72801X, reverse activated, luggage rack with topcase, HC Cycle Analyst, Emsiso BMS2405, 35mm² battery cables, now wrecked

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

MEroller wrote:
Aircon wrote:

E-Rider has a new outlet in Victoria st North Melbourne.....there's a new model coming out at the end of the month. I'm going to check it out and either buy one OR do a Li conversion. I'm down to a range of just under 40km now.

Would that new model be THIS one?
erider Puma

No. This one. http://www.erider.com.au/prod42.htm

MEroller
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Ah, so nothing really new, just the Thunder, in pdt spec. They have been advertising Thunder for years already, so "new" is pretty relative in this case...

__________________

My (former...) ride: E-Sprit Fury (basis is the ZAP/Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Mods: Battery temp. gauge and battery heating (off the grid and off the battery), Kelly KEB72801X, reverse activated, luggage rack with topcase, HC Cycle Analyst, Emsiso BMS2405, 35mm² battery cables, now wrecked

Aircon
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

MEroller wrote:

Ah, so nothing really new, just the Thunder, in pdt spec. They have been advertising Thunder for years already, so "new" is pretty relative in this case...

They certainly claimed it was all new. American design/made. Not chinese like the previous versions. Proper BMS and based on a Sachs chassis or something.

Time will tell.

MEroller
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Aircon wrote:

They certainly claimed it was all new. American design/made. Not chinese like the previous versions. Proper BMS and based on a Sachs chassis or something.

Time will tell.

Oh my - American-made... Let me guess: Sachs rear dampers is what it will be. But Sachs is a German company. PDT is a company from Israel, not the US.

ABOUT THE COMPANY
Plug in Drive Tech was founded in 2009 by Tzahi Ziv who set out to develop affordable quality electric vehicles with the latest technology.

Tzahi Ziv

Managing Partner and Chief Operations & Service Officer Owner of DZ Systems and IFI Motors since 1988, the largest franchise of electric vehicles in Israel.

Yes, time will tell...

__________________

My (former...) ride: E-Sprit Fury (basis is the ZAP/Erider Thunder 5000) since May 03, 2011. Mods: Battery temp. gauge and battery heating (off the grid and off the battery), Kelly KEB72801X, reverse activated, luggage rack with topcase, HC Cycle Analyst, Emsiso BMS2405, 35mm² battery cables, now wrecked

Aircon
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

MEroller wrote:
Aircon wrote:

They certainly claimed it was all new. American design/made. Not chinese like the previous versions. Proper BMS and based on a Sachs chassis or something.

Time will tell.

Oh my - American-made... Let me guess: Sachs rear dampers is what it will be. But Sachs is a German company. PDT is a company from Israel, not the US.

ABOUT THE COMPANY
Plug in Drive Tech was founded in 2009 by Tzahi Ziv who set out to develop affordable quality electric vehicles with the latest technology.

Tzahi Ziv

Managing Partner and Chief Operations & Service Officer Owner of DZ Systems and IFI Motors since 1988, the largest franchise of electric vehicles in Israel.

Yes, time will tell...

*shrug*

Only repeating what the guy told me. I'll report back when I check it out.

I was less than impressed with what was under the skin of pcarlson's scooter.. I'm hoping this new one will be better made. Unlikely to be up to the standard of the Vectrix with its aluminium swingarms, brembos and marzocchi suspension, but hopefully better than square section steel.

I probably shouldn't hope for too much at $7600 ride away though...should I?

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Almost got caught out by the self destructing side stand syndrome! The bolt holding it on was so loose that there were only a couple of threads left holding the nut on!!

Check it guys!

The only thing that gave it away was that the return spring started hitting the bolt head when I pushed the stand down.

I consider myself very lucky for finding it before it was too late, and very stupid for nothing checking it months ago, when I read about the problem on here.

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Hooray for me....I'm no longer a bathot virgin! (only took 3 years) My poor little scooter was sitting out in the sun ALLLLL day...and it was 40 deg C in the shade...and then I had to charge it. Battery temp got up to 49 deg by the time it finished at 142v, and when I turned on the ignition, bathot came on. By this time it had cooled to 35 deg, and by the time I got home after 20km @ 80kph the battery temp had cooled to 44.

Also, can someone please tell me if this is the charger than can be programmed with the laird's software or not?

IMG_20121129_064947.jpg

antiscab
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Aircon wrote:

Also, can someone please tell me if this is the charger than can be programmed with the laird's software or not?

yes that's the one that can be re-programmed

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
Total spent: $17260
Total to do again: $12560
Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

Aircon
Offline
Joined: 12/23/2009
Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Well, I'm feeling a bit stupid. Why, you ask? Because I just did something to my Vectrix that I should have done ages ago which has transformed the whole ownership experience.

I met LithiumVectrix (Paul)months and months ago. He'd done a Li-ion conversion to his bike with a 90Ah battery. I'd always wanted to do it to mine, but the only person doing the conversion was antiscab, and he's 3500km away! So that just didn't seem practical. Luckily for me, Paul is in Melbourne and only 30km from where I am and he decided to share what he'd done to his scooter.

Anyway, I finally decided to bite the bullet and get it done, but with 60Ah instead of 90, as I knew that would be more than enough for me.

So, thanks to the ingenuity of Paul and the software cleverness of The Laird, I now have a scooter which I STILL love riding, but now it's 50kg lighter, and has a range of a worry free 140km of mixed speed riding (probably more if it was all suburban speed). Apart from more storage, what more could I possible want?

Anyway, many thanks again to LithiumVectrix and The Laird, because between the two of them, they've give my scooter a 140km range and still plug and play charging, and for the encouragement and assistance of antiscab and Stuart (not sure of his name on here)

btw, i still have my old battery if anyone wants to buy it. It was still capable of 40km or so, so it wasn't too bad.

pcarlson1979
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Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

Aircon wrote:

Anyway, many thanks again to LithiumVectrix and The Laird, because between the two of them, they've give my scooter a 140km range and still plug and play charging

140km!! Really?!

My eRider 8kw scooter now has 9750km and both tires still look and feel brand new. Over 8mm of tread easily. Still capable of 60km flat out and 80km "eco" driving. My CHL batteries are going great! 72v 50Ah (24 cells). Last range test showed 50.98Ah so that's still 102% capacity after 9000km+. That was BMS shutdown 2.5v though.

I think I would need around 72v 100Ah to get 140km. You said you got 60Ah cells. How many cells did you stuff inside that bike! I'd love to see some photo's :)

__________________

------------------------------
eRider 8000w Scooter - PDT Version
72v 50AH CHL battery
350A Sevcon controller

24km: Delivered - 24 September 2011
2490km: Installed dual 35w HID lights Bi-Xenon Projectors - 27 November 2011
8313km: Installed BMS - 13 October 2012

"Scrappy" - Custom 48v Electric Dirtbike Conversion
20 Feb 2012: Bought 2005 Suzuki DRZ-400SM Motorcross Bike for $100
Motor: MARS ME0708
Controller: Alltrax AXE4844 400A controller
Battery: 16xCHL 50Ah LiFePo4 = 48v

Aircon
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Points: 425
Re: Australian Vectrix Questions

pcarlson1979 wrote:
Aircon wrote:

Anyway, many thanks again to LithiumVectrix and The Laird, because between the two of them, they've give my scooter a 140km range and still plug and play charging

140km!! Really?!

My eRider 8kw scooter now has 9750km and both tires still look and feel brand new. Over 8mm of tread easily. Still capable of 60km flat out and 80km "eco" driving. My CHL batteries are going great! 72v 50Ah (24 cells). Last range test showed 50.98Ah so that's still 102% capacity after 9000km+. That was BMS shutdown 2.5v though.

I think I would need around 72v 100Ah to get 140km. You said you got 60Ah cells. How many cells did you stuff inside that bike! I'd love to see some photo's :)

This is LithiumVectix's conversion for his bike here...but mine is similar.

http://www.evalbum.com/4465

I'm not surprised about the mileage you're getting from your tyres. Your scooter is much lighter and has much less power. Also, the tyres fitted to the Vectrix are quite soft and sticky.

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