VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' indicator

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Drew
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VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' indicator

Oh dear, not quite what I needed this evening. Any ideas chaps?

I rode about a mile to get some food for this evening, turned the bike off (or so I thought) and bought my nosh... jumped back and the bike, went to insert the keys but before doing so thought 'hang on a minute, it's on already!'.

No matter what I tried, the bike wouldn't shut down and 're-boot'. It's sitting outside (having pushed it back) powered on at the moment. See pic...

CSC_0606.JPG

The camera flash bleaches out the blue instrument backlights but they're still illuminated. The battery bars dropped to zero when this happened and I have no other controls like headlight/horn/indicators (turn signals).

I've tried chatting to it with my canbus and scooterdiag2.1 - nothing.

Should I suspect a blown ICM? Seems strange that it has failed in the 'on' condition and that there's no easy way to shut it down. It's the first significant fault it's had in ages - 23000 miles or so. Bike has 27000 miles on the clock now.

Any thoughts, as always, much appreciated.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Best wishes,

Drew

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Really easy this one....
Sorry didnt see it as i havent been online much today

Basically just reach under the front left (from the front of the bike) of the fairing and unclip the square charger plugs and plug them back in

They can be a real B***td to get back in ..

Make sure the plugs have their catches back in place

This will reset the bike (like a reset button on the Bike)

I have had this twice in two years.

Its like a full-on software crash

ofx210p
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

any luck ?

Drew
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Wahoo! Fabulous fix -thank you very much. I never could have believed it could be that simple AND I still have all the skin on my knuckles!

Charged up last night and rode in just like usual - just in time for the MoT this morning! So glad it wasn't more serious.

Much appreciated chaps!

Ta,

Drew

Drew

ofx210p
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Great !

Glad to help.

There's plenty of people here who all want the best for all the vectrix riders.

Cheers

Chris

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Hi guys,

I've not posted for a while as my V has been wonderfully reliable until now.

I found this posting (along with similar other ones) and found it to be describing the same problem my bike has. I have unplugged the two connectors and reconnected them as suggested. Unfortunately this fix didn't work for me. The symptoms are exactly the same though.

I will mention that canbus is showing on the display though. Has anyone got any other ideas? One other thing, if I plug it in to charge (it doesn't charge of course)there is a little click every few seconds coming from the charger area, like a relay operating.

So, it's in my garage with the display on slowly draining my precious battery pack unable to be charged. What can I do?

Simon.

Simon

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

The other option is to remove all the battery covers and momentarily break the main anderson power connector.

Obviously the guided route for this is to break the connection and use an inrush current limiter before reconnecting. However when my vectrix suffers a software lockup that even pulling the charger cables wont fix then i find this is the only fix.

I found with a 10mm socket and a philips screwdriver i can have the panels off in less than 10 mins
I remove all rings off fingers (just in case)
I dont remove the fan casing - just lift it enough to get hands on the anderson connectors
Ease them until they are JUST about to disconnect
then i barely disconnect and reconnect as fast as i can - milliseconds if at all possible.
and then push them hard together again.
Drop the cover back into place - bolt it back down and bolt all the other covers back in place along with the seat.

This is enough to reboot the software and "hopefully" short enough time for the capacitors to have NOT discharged to any great degree. However I realise this is probably not the case but on a monday morning when you have to go to work and the bike has shat itself i've found this procedure a life saver probably 3 times in the past 18 months !

I now carry in the boot a 10mm socket - ext - ratchet and stubbie philips - knowing if it ever happens in the wild i'm prepared.

Obviously anything more than a millisecond momentary break on the main power line and you'll want to use the Inrush protection.

Hope this helps

Chris

Drew
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Looks as though you might have to disconnect the battery to cure this one? Still would seem like a software lock-up to me. Either that, or have an inkling that you may have problems with the charger though can't think why I think it may be related. Seems to ring a bell! Good luck with it! You'll need an ICL or 40w bulb to reconnect don't forget!

Best wishes, Drew

Drew

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Chris's explanation is much more thorough and wasn't there when I put up my post! It takes a lot longer to type on your phone! I wonder what is causing the comms to lock up?

Either way, you'll need to get in there and disconnect. Heed the warnings about ICLs though or the motor controller caps can go #POP#

Drew

Drew

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Thanks guys for such a quick response.

I have been back in the garage disconnecting and reconnecting the charger plugs over and over. I got some progress, the instrument lights went out! then I reconnected the plugs and the clocks stayed unlit.

Everything appeared to be fixed, but when I turned on the ignition the temp light and batt light came on flashing together. However, the bike worked, at least it would move under power and the instruments were normal in appearance. Upon plugging in the bike into the mains to charge, the speedo went up to max, the fans were running as usual but the two red temp and batt lights continued to flash. After a few seconds of charging the bike went quiet and everything went dead, just like it does when it's finished charging.

A flash of inspiration came over me and I ran the bike back and forth a few feet under power (still in the garage). Then I turned off the ignition then turned it back on. The two offending red lights stayed off and when I reconnected to the mains the bike started to charge normally. It's now still charging, the volts are climbing as are the charging bars.

So, it seems to have recovered for now. What was that all about then? I rode it in the rain today. Something I try never to do as I have a BMW-C1 for rainy riding. I wonder if some water got in somewhere and being in the garage it has been drying out gradually during the evening. This would maybe explain the progressive success I experienced. Then jolting the bike back and forth shook out the last few drops that may have been causing a short? Who knows, I'm just glad it's back!

5 years of ownership.
Only 8,500 miles
Now down to 20 dependable miles, 27 miles if I baby it along.
Volts after charging at 141v
Charging and operating battery temps, all normal

Simon.

Simon

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Yeah - simply your temperature sensor boards on the bike have got damp/wet

There are several fixes for this

One is to bag up the one at the front of the bike after its dried out. This is almost certainly the one that is causing problems due to its position.
Once it is wet the temp sensing is all over the place and its scaring the system hence the lack of charging !

The other way to deal with it is to load a variation of the system firmware on the bike which essentially ignores the battery temperatures and charges regardless of lights flashing or not !

This will at least allow you to charge the bike when the sensors are being spurious.

Drew
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Yeah - simply your temperature sensor boards on the bike have got damp/wet

There are several fixes for this

One is to bag up the one at the front of the bike after its dried out. This is almost certainly the one that is causing problems due to its position.
Once it is wet the temp sensing is all over the place and its scaring the system hence the lack of charging !

Simon,

Chris is spot-on. This is the fix that cured the lock-up and temp sense flashing lights on my bike. There are two of these PCBs; one for each battery pack and two sets of six sensors; front and rear. I opted to re-route and bag-up the FRONT temp sense-to-canbus PCB. This now keeps all of the moisture that the UK outdoors can throw at it well away from the sensitive electronics. The rear PCB is better protected from the elements but I have still shellac coated it, just in case. The canbus portion of your front PCB was probably damp/wet and that is probably what caused the lock-up in the first place. When doing the mods to the front temp sense-canbus PCB, I also went through the battery pack sensor boards for good measure as they had furred up a bit as well. It was simply a case of cleaning them up and then applying a couple of coats of shellac varnish to them to stop the tracks from oxidising again. It does mean you have to disassemble the battery pack a bit but it's not beyond the wit of man. You may not need to do this part if they are still reading ok or seem to be 'fur-free' - the fault certainly manifests itself in the front PCB first as it's the most exposed...

You'll find the PCB located immediately beneath the ignition key switch in a hole in the frame. It's usually mounted on some nylon clip-in spacers/pillars. The loom connector can also be the source of the problem, so check that it is dry as well. WD40 works well to help expel moisture before reassembly.

It has improved the reliability of mine no end.

32,000 miles now, stock firmware. Kept/ridden outside all weathers (hence necessary mods!)

Drew

Drew

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Obviously anything more than a millisecond momentary break on the main power line and you'll want to use the Inrush protection.

No worries! If the capacitors where SO quick in self-discharging they would be very thoroughly blown up - kaput! You should easily be able to take 5 seconds for reconnecting the Andersons without much self-discharge of the capacitors, so thus no need yet for an ICL. Full self-discharge of such large capacitors will typically take up to several minutes. If however the MC somehow constantly required current even at "ignition off" idle, then the capacitor discharge may be slightly accelerated, but still be in the range of 10 to 30 seconds.

My rides:
2017 Zero S ZF6.5 11kW, erider Thunder 5kW

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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Wow guys,

So much meaningful info that is so relevant to my problem, thanks again. The V took me to work and back with no problems at all yesterday. Will keep a close eye on the weather from now on.
I set out to work in dry bright conditions then came home with it pouring down and due to some major road works (3 months!) outside my workplace all bike users have to park in the open air instead of the more usual undercover place.

Simon

Simon

Mik
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...
Obviously anything more than a millisecond momentary break on the main power line and you'll want to use the Inrush protection.

No worries! If the capacitors where SO quick in self-discharging they would be very thoroughly blown up - kaput! You should easily be able to take 5 seconds for reconnecting the Andersons without much self-discharge of the capacitors, so thus no need yet for an ICL. Full self-discharge of such large capacitors will typically take up to several minutes. If however the MC somehow constantly required current even at "ignition off" idle, then the capacitor discharge may be slightly accelerated, but still be in the range of 10 to 30 seconds.

I think this is incorrect, at least for the VX-1 MC capacitors. I actually tested it by repeatedly connecting and disconnecting the battery through an ICL. This showed that the ICL 40W globe lit up even after very short periods of disconnection.

In at least some of the VX-1 the cables of the Andersons main battery connector are so short that it is difficult to connect them quickly even when the covers are all removed.

Furthermore, I would assume that it is likely that the MC is where the problem (and the need for a hard reboot) is located, because the standard charger disconnect/reconnect procedure did not fix the problem. It may well be that you need to wait until the capacitors have discharged before the MC is truly "off" and the error resets. However, I'm guessing here.

Regarding the battery rebuild after servicing the temp sensors or anything else: Remember he battery recall? I think it was due to the tendency of the inter-module connectors to loosen up unless they are repeatedly tightened to the specified torque setting (I think it is 10Nm, but better look it up). I'm not certain what exactly they did in the battery recall procedure, probably the wrong thing, but I recommend to either tighten the inter-module connectors at least two or three times with several hours of wait in-between. Maybe using threadlock would work, but I have not tested that. I found that the inter-module-connectors were loose when I had to dismantle a VX-1 battery that I had personally assembled a day or so earlier, including religious use of a quality torque-wrench. They were all way too loose again! I found that the pack needs to be assembled slowly over several days in order to prevent this loosening of the connectors.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

Mik
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...
Obviously anything more than a millisecond momentary break on the main power line and you'll want to use the Inrush protection.

No worries! If the capacitors where SO quick in self-discharging they would be very thoroughly blown up - kaput! You should easily be able to take 5 seconds for reconnecting the Andersons without much self-discharge of the capacitors, so thus no need yet for an ICL. Full self-discharge of such large capacitors will typically take up to several minutes. If however the MC somehow constantly required current even at "ignition off" idle, then the capacitor discharge may be slightly accelerated, but still be in the range of 10 to 30 seconds.

I think this is incorrect, at least for the VX-1 MC capacitors. I actually tested it by repeatedly connecting and disconnecting the battery through an ICL. This showed that the ICL 40W globe lit up even after very short periods of disconnection.

In at least some of the VX-1 the cables of the Andersons main battery connector are so short that it is difficult to connect them quickly even when the covers are all removed.

Furthermore, I would assume that it is likely that the MC is where the problem (and the need for a hard reboot) is located, because the standard charger disconnect/reconnect procedure did not fix the problem. It may well be that you need to wait until the capacitors have discharged before the MC is truly "off" and the error resets. However, I'm guessing here.

Regarding the battery rebuild after servicing the temp sensors or anything else: Remember he battery recall? I think it was due to the tendency of the inter-module connectors to loosen up unless they are repeatedly tightened to the specified torque setting (I think it is 10Nm, but better look it up). I'm not certain what exactly they did in the battery recall procedure, probably the wrong thing, but I recommend to either tighten the inter-module connectors at least two or three times with several hours of wait in-between. Maybe using threadlock would work, but I have not tested that. I found that the inter-module-connectors were loose when I had to dismantle a VX-1 battery that I had personally assembled a day or so earlier, including religious use of a quality torque-wrench. They were all way too loose again! I found that the pack needs to be assembled slowly over several days in order to prevent this loosening of the connectors.

This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

kevin smith
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

hi
this is the same fauilt that i had yesterday but it has happened before.
and what i did to correct this as i know the fuel gauge was showing full before i set off to town but found all dashlights on and fuel gauge showing empty ....
untrue, so what i did before this corrected this for a few months was to go in the glove box and use the cigarette socket in there and use small devise to discharge it it takes few days but hopfully it will then
shut its self down then will accsept a propper charge??

but think its some thing to do with damp weather ??
will keep you guys up todate
till i can fit the scooter will hve to leave well alone till i have better idears to fix scooter vectrix cheapley

RED LIGHTS FLASHING BATTERY AND SENSOER ASWELL ???

kevin smith
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

OMG!!!!!!!!
AM i reading right there is a reset switch ??

i know that there is a 12v cigarette lighter socket in glove box left hand front box but knew there was a computer port to connect a computer to it ..?

so am i right in saying that the squire computer port needs diconecting? or just un plugging to revile some kind of switch ??
any help much appreciated

kevin

ofx210p
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

There are two levels of reset on the Vectrix (this is taken from the text above)

1st level of reset - resets the charger.

Basically just reach under the front left (from the front of the bike) of the fairing and unclip the square charger plugs and plug them back in

They can be a real B***td to get back in ..

Make sure the plugs have their cantilever catches back in place

This will reset the bike (like a reset button on the Bike)

I have had this twice in two years.

Its like a full-on software crash

2nd level of reset is a complete bike / motor controller / Icm etc reset (ie you are taking all power away from the bike)

and that is to remove all the battery covers and momentarily break/disconnect the main anderson power connector.

Obviously the guided route for this is to break the connection and use an inrush current limiter before reconnecting. However when my vectrix suffers a software lockup that even pulling the charger cables wont fix then i find this is the only fix.

I found with a 10mm socket and a philips screwdriver i can have the panels off in less than 10 mins
I remove all rings off fingers (just in case)
I dont remove the fan casing - just lift it enough to get hands on the anderson connectors
Ease them until they are JUST about to disconnect
then i barely disconnect and reconnect as fast as i can - milliseconds if at all possible.
and then push them hard together again.
Drop the cover back into place - bolt it back down and bolt all the other covers back in place along with the seat.

This is enough to reboot the software and "hopefully" short enough time for the capacitors to have NOT discharged to any great degree. However I realise this is probably not the case but on a monday morning when you have to go to work and the bike has shat itself i've found this procedure a life saver probably 3 times in the past 18 months !

I now carry in the boot a 10mm socket - ext - ratchet and stubbie philips - knowing if it ever happens in the wild i'm prepared.

Obviously anything more than a millisecond momentary break on the main power line and you'll want to use the Inrush protection.

Associated problem:

If your battery lights are flashing on and off constantly then it is more likely that your temperature sensor boards on the bike have got damp/wet

There are several fixes for this

One is to bag up the one at the front of the bike after its dried out. This is almost certainly the one that is causing problems due to its position.
Once it is wet the temp sensing is all over the place and its scaring the system hence the lack of charging !

The other way to deal with it is to load a variation of the system firmware on the bike which essentially ignores the battery temperatures and charges regardless of lights flashing or not !

This will at least allow you to charge the bike when the sensors are being spurious.

This covers most of the software issues.

Cheers

Chris

PS there is NO reset switch. (i wish there were)

Caruso
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

I had this happen to me this morning. The symptoms had been there - occasional flashing red battery and temp lights when the weather had been wet. This morning the display froze with no bars. Turning the key off didn't turn it off. So I did the charger disconnect which sorted the problem.

Anyway, I wanted to say thanks for the advice and comments on this topic - especially Drew. They really saved my bacon!

Task for this weekend is to improve water protection on the front temp PCB and connectors - as long as it's not raining!

israndy
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Re: VX-1 won't turn off or shut down, no 'ready' or 'go' ...

Personally I just punk out and take the car when they predict rain. It has seen fog and moist, and I live next to the ocean, so lots of salt, but in the 5 almost years I have not had an issue with the electronics, other than the failed battery pack that was replaced by Big V in the early Gold Peak days.

-Randy

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