Vectrix and the 3-Phase Supply!
My local city is gettinf onto the eco bandwagon, and qill shortly be installing a network of 40 (yes, forty) electric recharging points, for the free use of electric vehicle users. The (possible) downside is that for the purposes of the initial trial, these will be mounted on pillars with a 5-pin (red plug) 3-phase supply. This is to work with a fleet of Peugeot vehicles that can 'fast charge' in just 20 minutes using the 415v 3-phase supply.
Now, 3-phase is a closed book to me, havng never worked in an environment that used or even needed it - so treat me gently! I am aware it is quite possible to connect a converter to a single phase supply to turn it into a pseudo 3-phase 415v connection. Is the OPPOSITE of this also true... that I can EITHER source a 3-phase to single phase convertor (if such an animal exists), or would I be correct in thinking I would really only need to fabricate a connector lead, with a 5-pin RED plug for the 3-phase connection, and a standard socket on a flying lead, wired to ONE of the phases and the Neutral...?
The supporters of the trial say that they may change their pillers to accommodate additional sockets, but for the run up, IF I can plug into the their red 3 Phase sockets, I can with their blessing, so my question is - can I do this simply?
Thanks Norman,
The city is Glasgow - I was aware of the phase shift, but I assumed in view of the differing types of connections to the 3Phase sockets, adding kit to ensure only all legs are active would add to the cost, and create issues furter down the line (pun intended). I think I'll invest in a 5-pin plug and make up a lead with a local-style socket that will allow the Vectrix to plug to it. I'll let you know how it goes - I'm assuming the connections will be L1 + N + E...? (to the Vectrix)
Thanks Norman,
The city is Glasgow - I was aware of the phase shift, but I assumed in view of the differing types of connections to the 3Phase sockets, adding kit to ensure only all legs are active would add to the cost, and create issues furter down the line (pun intended). I think I'll invest in a 5-pin plug and make up a lead with a local-style socket that will allow the Vectrix to plug to it. I'll let you know how it goes - I'm assuming the connections will be L1 + N + E...? (to the Vectrix)
Yep, the connector is plain L1 + N + E.
Good to see Glasgow setting up these charging points. I wish more and mor cities would go the way of Glasgow. In London we've got chaos. Every and each borough of London is doing their own scheme. OK, all "juicepoints" are the same make (Elektromotive) but you can only use the juice points within your own borough. What a waste of resources. There are many juicepoints in London that are hardly every used but still, every little kingdom (no I should say borough) needs to have their regulation to who should be allowed to use these points.
What is the model they implement in Gllasgow? Do you need a subscription, key? What are the costs ...
Norman
If you really want to do it by the book, you should also put a fuse on the converting cable. Most likely the 3-phase connector is fused to 25A or more, but the Vectrix is made for 16A (or is it perhaps up to 20A in UK). The fuse should match the capacity of the consumer cable, otherwise you risk burning the cable (or the Vectrix) without the fuse releasing. Likelyhood of this event is small especially with this small difference (16A vs 25A), but still.
To be fair - there's Government money in this too - Glasgow I believe is one of 9 cities earmarked for this initiative, and it ties in local interest groups. There's a major input from Peugeot who have quite a range of vehicles available from box-van to LWB transit-type models, all with a battery pack installed in the engine compartment, which means the rear of the vehicle can take a standard payload and not worrying about the cargo space being filled with cells!
Whilst I was initially impressed with the Elektromotive product, it is too clever by half, and overengineered = making each 'point' cost somewhere in the reagion of £2000, all for a 13a socket with an LCD display and pretty colour-changing lights. For the Pergeot vans, the requirement is for a 3 phase connection as a minimum and as the Elektrobay pillars cannot physically cope with these dimensions of plug, I seriouly doubt whether these will ever be a contender to supply.
I'm keeping my ear close to the ground and will keep the forum updated on how the urban charging points will be managed and run. The first 2 points, within the grounds of the Pergeot dealership are already available for use, and are complete open. Due to my enquiries, and visiting them on the Vectrix, got their unpromptes suggestion that should I ever need a 'hit', just to announce to Security that I was on site and I was free to use the facilities. (Which I have to admit, was better than I had hoped).
Currently, they are working out with Scottish Power the best places to distribute the sockets, and this will be done with due reference to the road network and the ability to access (initially) off-street but accessible locations where two vehicles at a time can access the point which will be double-sided. The impression I got that there will be an inner and outer circle of points to ensure nobody would be more than 10 Km from a recharging point, wherever they were within the greater Glasgow conurbation.
As you noted - having access to charging points in Camden when you're in Richmond and running to a halt is no laughing matter, although Tesco's initiative on this may do something to wrest the initiative from the councils. I'd much rather have a coffee and use the loo in Tesco whilst my vextrix is recharging - than looking through a bunch of Electrobay RF keys for one to open the box I'm at.
Well, I've just won my first 5pin 415v plug on eBay - for £1.20 plus post - and the guy claims to have 200 of them available for listing later. It might be a useful investment for other Vectrix owners when confrinted with a free 3phase hook-up and a 13amp Vectrix plug!
duplicate
If you really want to do it by the book, you should also put a fuse on the converting cable. Most likely the 3-phase connector is fused to 25A or more, but the Vectrix is made for 16A (or is it perhaps up to 20A in UK). The fuse should match the capacity of the consumer cable, otherwise you risk burning the cable (or the Vectrix) without the fuse releasing. Likelyhood of this event is small especially with this small difference (16A vs 25A), but still.
I had thought of this - but unlike the European 2-pin plug, the UK plug variant is already fused (at 13 amps) and is one of the unusual nature of the UK-style power plugs, without exception, they are ALL fused to whichever is the most appropriate; 1, 3, 5 or 13a.
I saw Masvidal's Vectrix charger being fried up due to unbalanced load in a 3 phase recharging point.... (with many other vehicles recharging also from there). Taking one phase will work fine but you should use a main fuse for safety purposes....
My eBay purchase of a 3-phase (RED 415v) plug arrived a few days ago and I was anxious to try it out! I had a 2m mains cable so I wired this up to the red plug as E-N-L1, and connected the other end to a standard UK 13amp trailing socket, wired conventionally.
On of Glasgow's electric car dealerships as a 4-vehicle bay with a 3-phase round sockets spaces 3 metres apart. So (with prior permission) rode up and hooked up with no problems at all. The VX1 behaved normally, with the fans starting and the speedo showing the inbound charging current - but og course, I was only using 1 of the 3 available phases. There were no additional protection devices prepared to susped the supply because only a signle phase was being drawn, so that problem did not manifest itself.
To all intents and purposes, the hook-up looked the same as the adjacent electric vehicles, only that thwy would be recharged considerably quicker than me (in around 22 minutes). The wire from the red wall plug snaked ubder the main seat through the gap for the cable, presenting a socket to match the plug on the end of the Vectrix lead. As it was juat starting to rain, this meant the soxket was fully contained within the seat void, so no issues over rain falling on to the cabling. The cable running from the seat to the 3-phase socket was of course weatherproof.
After my 2 hours top-up, I just un hooked and off I wnt. Success!
I'd suggest to all Vectrix owners the fact a 3-phase supply looks unfamiliar should not bar you from obraining a recharge if a standard outlet is not available. I'm keeping my new jumper cable with me for those times when I really need a quick top-up, and of course, until Glasgow's network of 40 public 3P recharging points goes live!
Taking one phase will work fine but you should use a main fuse for safety purposes....
Unless you have the UK Vectrix lead, which is already fused at 13 amps.
The finished article.
Hi Buzby,
where is that 13A fuse in the Vectrix UK lead?
The Ozzi version has no fuse (not that I know of, anyway).
All UK plugs have a fuse built into the actual plug, so UK Vectrix will have the at the end of their charging cable.
Can I run a standard UK socket from an existing 3-phase supply? If the supply (pictured) is three fused lives where does the neutral come in?
that 3-phase supply is intended for a load that is run in delta.
in your case, there is no neutral to connect to.
when there is no neutral, no single phase devices (ie your vectrix) can be used.
only 3-phase supplies with the neutral can be used to charge a vectrix.
Matt
You'd either have to get that re-wired from delta to wye or connect a transformer across two of the lines then step down from 415 volts to 220.
Mathematically, the neutral point of a 415 volt 3-phase supply is closer to 240 V than 220 (415/sq.rt 3 = 239.6).
Some really good info here:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/5.html
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/6.html
My local city is gettinf onto the eco bandwagon, and qill shortly be installing a network of 40 (yes, forty) electric recharging points, for the free use of electric vehicle users. The (possible) downside is that for the purposes of the initial trial, these will be mounted on pillars with a 5-pin (red plug) 3-phase supply. This is to work with a fleet of Peugeot vehicles that can 'fast charge' in just 20 minutes using the 415v 3-phase supply.
Now, 3-phase is a closed book to me, havng never worked in an environment that used or even needed it - so treat me gently! I am aware it is quite possible to connect a converter to a single phase supply to turn it into a pseudo 3-phase 415v connection. Is the OPPOSITE of this also true... that I can EITHER source a 3-phase to single phase convertor (if such an animal exists), or would I be correct in thinking I would really only need to fabricate a connector lead, with a 5-pin RED plug for the 3-phase connection, and a standard socket on a flying lead, wired to ONE of the phases and the Neutral...?
The supporters of the trial say that they may change their pillers to accommodate additional sockets, but for the run up, IF I can plug into the their red 3 Phase sockets, I can with their blessing, so my question is - can I do this simply?
You should have no issue to get your "converter" from a electrician. 3 phase is actually 3 x 220V (L1 + L2 + L3). However, the thre L's are phase shifted (which ultimately gives you the 415V). By using only one of the thre phases (i.e. L1) you will have your standard plain 220V. There might be an issue with the juice points as they might expect a balanced load (all three phases to be used). If this is the case you really look into a more complicated converter and not just the L1 as described above. May I ask which city you are talking about?
Norman