Electric Honda Elite

reikiman's picture

A couple months ago I found an old Honda Elite frame available for real cheap on Craigslist. I'd just gotten a motor from deafscooter when he was clearing his garage for the trip to China, and was wondering what to do with it. This motor was said to be 48 volt, 4000 watts, and so this Honda Elite frame seemed like the perfect thing. It came already stripped, and when I picked it up the guy turned out to be an EV person himself. His daily driver is a Solectria Force and this Honda Elite was something he'd converted to electric years and years earlier, but he wanted to get rid of.

DSCN2622-web.jpg

Can't get much more bare than that.

DSCN2626-web.jpg

That's a closeup of the former swingarm. He had put a solid bar where the shocks should be, so the arm doesn't actually swing. As you'll see in a minute that's very important to how I'm mounting the motor. It's also using a belt drive.

What I've been puzzling over since getting this scooter is a kind of round peg in a square hole problem. How do you get the motor (round) to mount to the frame (basically rectangular). I've come up with a workable solution that's seeming to work pretty well.

DSCN2628-web.jpg

The scooter came with a small aluminum box (open ends) and I've modified it a bit to serve as a base. Then using those angle brackets I'm attaching the motor to this box. It all bolts together and seems sturdy enough.

DSCN2632-web.jpg

Here it is mounted to the non-swing arm.

The problem I'm having is getting the belt to be tight enough. I suspect the belt should be very tight, so it doesn't slip, right? Unfortunately the mounting system for the motor doesn't leave much ability to adjust the positioning of the motor. So what I've been doing is making the holes for the base of the motor mount to be slots instead. As a slot that lets me slide the motor-mount back and forth to get the desired stiffness.

The scooter is now ready to go ..except.. I let the magic smoke out of the controller. Sigh. Also the potbox (a home made contraption built by the previous owner) seems to have gone bad. So... it's gonna be a little while before this one is finished.

before comments

Comments

MB-1-E's picture

Hi Reikiman,

What if you were to take a slightly different approach on mounting your motor.
What I found is that the motor wants to be as close as possible to the rigid portion of the frame.

So, picture this if you will.
Remove the motor from your mounting bracket.
Place one piece of the angle that you have (or something similar) horizontally, directly on to the elite square tube frame at each end of the motor.

Pivot the motor from this point - close to the frame.

Honda_Elite.jpg

Dave

MB-1-E
Electric - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike
Icon Photo of lighning striking Eiffel Tower Jun 3, 1902, taken by MG Loppe'

Dave B

MB-1-E
<a href="http://visforvoltage.org/book-page/996-mountain-bike-conversion-24v-3-4h... - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike</a>

reikiman's picture

Okay, I tend to agree that the less involved with the mount is probably better. On the other hand the mount feels very sturdy. But the key thing here is the length of the belt I have; the length of the belt is what dictated how high up the motor is being mounted. To do what you're saying I'd need a shorter belt and I have no idea how to go about ordering a belt or getting a shorter one. Maybe someone can explain it.

- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/

MB-1-E's picture

It also looks like you may need the height to clear the belt over the square tubing that runs from one side of the scooter to the other.
Perhaps a combination of the two methods will get you there. (i.e. your mount incorporating a pivot).
You can also always add a diagonal brace if you are at all concerned about strength, triangles work very well.

First thing I'd check is to see if the belt has any information on it.

Type belt: Is it a stock Honda Elite belt?
There are several different belt tooth designs, trapazoidal, HTD, GT GT2 etc. so this would probably be the most difficult thing to determine. I don't think any are interchangable.

The belt pitch: Is it metric or imperial?
The pitch is the distance from one tooth to the next (On Center spacing) at the belt pitch diameter.
If metric it would likely be 5mm or 8mm pitch.

The belt width: Again, is it metric? Looks like it might be a 15mm wide belt (others are 20mm, 25mm etc).

Number of teeth on the drive belt sprocket and number of teeth on the driven belt sprocket and the distance (On Center) between the shafts (usually given as a range, shortest adjustment to longest adjustment)

My first guess would be that it's probably a stock Honda belt, this could really narrow it down and help determine the belt type (type of tooth) and maybe the pitch and width.

Perhaps you can get in touch with the previous owner, he would probably be able to tell you right off.

Belts are available in many lengths, so once you determine the shaft distance O.C. and know the type you should be able to find one that will fit.

See if there is any information on the sprockets, a part number might also help to determine the belt type. Is the rear (driven) sprocket stock, I bet it is.

Sorry I'm not sure that I helped, but with some detective work, perhaps it won't be that difficult.
Good luck, looks like a fun ride.

Dave

Dave

MB-1-E
Electric - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike
Icon Photo of lighning striking Eiffel Tower Jun 3, 1902, taken by MG Loppe'

Dave B

MB-1-E
<a href="http://visforvoltage.org/book-page/996-mountain-bike-conversion-24v-3-4h... - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike</a>

:) Your project looks like fun. My own bike uses a hts 5m belt for the primary drive. The problem was keeping the belt tight when the motor pulls on one side of the belt and the other side goes slack, the belt then starts to jump teeth. A good partial solution is to use a spring loaded tensioner on the slack side. Also the tensioner roller needs to help wrap some of the belt further around the drive pulley to engage more teeth. This will help the pulley last longer. The drive pulleys will wear faster than any other componet. More teeth count will help too, but may not give you the ratios you want. Hope this helps.
Good Luck
Wesley

echuckj5's picture

Dave,

Help, now I am in the unknown.

What software did you use to draw this diagram..

chuck

[b]AGM BATTERIES[/b]

reikiman's picture

When you asked about the belt I was on a cross country trip and forgot to take a look when I got back home.

The belt on the bike is marked Goodyear 480L050. There's a second belt that I can't find right now and I remember is marked Gates.

The sprockets have no information, and they are not stock. The guy who originally converted it used belts because that was his mentor's preference.

I'm probably not going to have time to work on this soon... the parts to finish my Lectra project are finally in place. So the Lectra is now the primary goal. But the stuff you mentioned looks like it would help me at e.g. the McMaster-Carr web site to understand what to order.

- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/

MB-1-E's picture

Reikiman,

Here's a nice little calculator to figure out belt length once you figure out what the pitch and width is. We can probably figure out the pitch length and width from the number with a little googling.
The SDP site below probably has various lengths of that belt, I'll get back to you if I find anything.

http://www.sdp-si.com/Cd/default.htm

Chuck,

I used AutoCAD to draw that up, then just saved it as a JPEG image. That's not to scale or anything, I just looked at the photo and winged it ... :D

Dave

MB-1-E
Electric - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike
Icon Photo of lighning striking Eiffel Tower Jun 3, 1902, taken by MG Loppe'

Dave B

MB-1-E
<a href="http://visforvoltage.org/book-page/996-mountain-bike-conversion-24v-3-4h... - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike</a>

MB-1-E's picture

Here ya go Reikiman,

480L050
The first number is the length in inches.
Other manufactures probably have their own numbering but should be able to cross reference if you plug in the length you want.

Looks like that belt is:

3/8" Pitch (Distance between teeth)
48" long (at the pitch diameter)
1/2" wide
Has 128 teeth

All you need is that little calculator, the # of teeth on the drive, the # teeth on the driven and the distance O.C. of the two shafts and it will tell you the length belt you need. Just plug in the 3/8" pitch and you're set.

This is where I found the info. on the Goodyear # but you can get this belt (in varying lengths) lots of places, I like SDP.

http://www.industrialsupplyco.com/Catalog/DRIVESTIMINGBELTS.pdf

Dave

MB-1-E
Electric - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike
Icon Photo of lighning striking Eiffel Tower Jun 3, 1902, taken by MG Loppe'

Dave B

MB-1-E
<a href="http://visforvoltage.org/book-page/996-mountain-bike-conversion-24v-3-4h... - Bridgestone MB-1 Mountain Bike</a>

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