I finally got a price from a local dealer on the CSB-Battery EVH 12150.
Ginger quoted me a price of $47.95 each for a set of 4. That's more than I paid for the [node:884] but the CSB-Battery EVH 12150 is 15AH.
Does anyone have any experience with CSB Batteries? I believe they are mfg in Taipei City, Taiwan, and they would need a couple of days to get them.
CSB Batteries EVH12150 12V 15.0Ah
Specification
Cells Per Unit 6
Voltage Per Unit 12 V
Capacity 15.0Ah @ 20hr-rate to 1.75V per cell @ 25°C (77°F)
Weight : Approx. 4.50kg. (9.92 lbs.)
Maximum Discharge Current : 180A (5 sec)
Internal Resistance Approx. : Approx. 11mΩ
Operating Temperature Range : Discharge：-15℃~50℃(5℉~122℉)
Charge：-15℃~40℃(5℉~104℉)
Storage：-15℃~40℃(5℉~104℉)
Nominal Operating Temperature Range : 25°C ± 3°C (77°F ± 5°F)
Float Charging Voltage : 13.5 to 13.8 VDC/unit Average at 25°C (77°F)
Recommended Maximum Charging current limit 4.5 A
Equalization and Cycle Service : 14.4 to 15.0 VDC/unit Average at 25°C (77°F)
Self Discharge : CSB Batteries can be stored for more than 6 months at 25°C (77°F) Please charge batteries before using. For higher temperatures the time interval will be shorter.
Terminal : F2-Faston Tab 250
Container Material : ABS(UL94-HB/File E50263)*Flammability resistance of(UL94-V0/File E88367) can be available upon request.
Constant Current Discharge Characteristics Unit:Amperes (25℃,77℉)
F.V/Time 15MIN 30MIN 60MIN 90MIN 2HR 3HR 5HR 8HR 10HR 20HR
1.60V 34.00 19.50 11.17 7.85 6.18 4.33 2.72 1.75 1.43 0.78
1.67V 33.34 19.34 11.04 7.79 6.10 4.25 2.68 1.72 1.41 0.77
1.70V 32.58 19.04 10.89 7.70 6.02 4.17 2.63 1.69 1.39 0.76
1.75V 31.71 18.72 10.74 7.60 5.93 4.10 2.59 1.67 1.36 0.75
1.80V 30.79 18.45 10.58 7.50 5.83 4.02 2.54 1.64 1.34 0.74
1.85V 29.70 18.05 10.43 7.38 5.72 3.94 2.49 1.61 1.32 0.71
Constant Power Discharge Characteristics Unit:Watts (25℃,77℉)
F.V/Time 15MIN 30MIN 60MIN 90MIN 2HR 3HR 5HR 8HR 10HR 20HR
1.60V 367.00 213.00 123.00 88.00 68.00 48.10 30.50 19.80 16.20 8.21
1.67V 360.00 210.00 120.22 86.00 67.06 47.33 30.00 19.50 16.00 8.15
1.70V 351.30 207.00 117.60 84.00 65.88 46.53 29.58 19.19 15.72 8.08
1.75V 343.10 202.90 115.25 82.00 64.70 45.60 29.09 18.88 15.45 8.01
1.80V 332.90 198.60 113.00 80.00 63.18 44.80 28.59 18.56 15.20 7.92
1.85V 323.00 192.00 111.00 78.00 61.80 43.90 28.00 18.20 14.90 7.82
` :?
I thought I'd put this out there again before I order them tomorrow. The Spec. sheet is located in the EV DownLoad Library under
Battery Information.
I have 3 so call Intelligent Chargers, and don't trust any of them anymore, so I'll be also looking for a 48 Volt Charger, unless there is a way to troubleshoot the ones I have?
CH11) 48V charger
48V battery charger
48V BMWC (battery maintenance while charging) DC 48V charger for ?Gel Cell? Lead ? Acid battery ,
input AC 100 - 240V, output 54V
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Is it $47.95 for 4 or is that for one when you buy 4?
I am impressed with the amount of information they provide in their spec sheet.
Down to 10.2 volts at the 1/2 hour rate they will provide approximately 18.5 % more power than the B&B EBs if their spec sheets are accurate.
Kind of expensive though, at almost 50 bucks a piece. Digikey has some B&B BP (for general use) 12ah 12v now for $25 ea.
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
` :?
If you remember I just bought a new set of B&B several months ago, and they are already shot. 15AH is what the originals were, and it's hard to find 15AH. They are also local, over in Chas's neck of the woods.
$47.95 EA when you buy 4 I assume.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Can you send me your shot batteries? I can try and determine why they failed.
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
` :D
Well for one thing the shipping cost are too high, I got burned once ordering online 4 12V 7AH for my Aux pack, and they never came out of the yellow, it would have cost me half the cost of the 4 batteries to return them and there was no gurantee I would get a refund.
Now I try and buy locally, so if there is a problem I can easily return them. But the B&B I bought locally still meet the warranty so that didn't work either.
I just ordered 4 CSB-Batteries EVH 12150 12V 15.0, sh had to recheck the price, said lately prices have been all over the place. The are still 47.95 plus a UPS charge, and I can pick them up in a couple of days.
This will be my 3rd set in 3 years, and the only constant has been the so called Intellengent Chargers, so I finally woke up to the fact the problem is probally with the Chargers or the way I leave the Charger connected forever.
A expensive lesson, but a lesson learned.
BTW they are all reading 13.4, and I can probally only go about a mile before I need to try and pedal maore.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Is there anyway you can load test them? Aluminum foil might work, just take a thin strip about 1/2" by 10" long and connect it across a battery. It might get pretty hot so you probably want to wear gloves. Measure the current with a digital multimeter. If you know the current, than you can connect it again while measuring the voltage.
Also, you can take the covers off and add a small amount of water. I'm no expert on this, but from my own experience you need to keep it to a very small amount. This might bring them back.
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
Anyone got one they want to sell?
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
` :)
Just got a call my 4 CSB-Batteries EVH 12150 12V 15.0AH are here, I will pick them up across the river tomorrow, and start putting everything back together. Got them for $47.25 EA rather than the $47.75 I was quoted. Hope to be rolling again by this weekend.
Now I just need to figure out I'm going to charge them properly. To start off I'm only doing 1 hour on and 1 hour off until they are fully charged.
If I monitor the charging with a Amp meter, what should I see?
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Check the voltage too. And also listen very closely for any crackling sort of noises which will indicate gassing. If the batteries are being overcharged by a lot they will heat up too. Theres really no reason to go 1 hr on and 1 hr off unless you know that the charger is bad or something. Just leave them connected until they are done.
At no time should the voltage go above 15v and preferably below 14.5v. When you connect them to the charger the charger should hit them with full amps right away until the voltage comes up and then most good chargers switch to a CV (constant voltage) mode where the voltage stays constant while the current drops. When it gets low enough then is when they go into float mode and drop the voltage further.
Is your BMS system installed yet?
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
` :?
So I should be more concerned about volts rather than the amps?
BTW the Charger is a 48 Volt charger and normally charges each battery up to about 14 volts, or 56 volts for all 4.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Yea you should, but the amps are still important.
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
` :)
Well I picked up my new CSB-Batteries EVH 12150 12V 15.0 AH yesterday with no problems, other than trying to use the Map Quest map. I already knew how to get to Belleville, IL been there many times taking kids to The National Shrine of Our Lady of the Snows to see the Christmas lights, and Chas had also given me a map which I waited to the last minute to try and locate. If you have MO plates, ESTL is not the place to get lost, so we finally went the way I knew and just asked a policeman where the street was. They actually mfg Batteries, so I felt like a kid in a candy store. They are a Family business, the Mother and Father still work in the office. I'll plan to latter ask them to test my new B&B EB12-12 10AH Batteries, if I had known they were a real mfg I would have taken them with me to be tested. Real friendly people, the owner knew who I was just by hearing my voice, so we will do more business in the future. They have been in the Battery business since 1919 and still have some nice antiques in there office. The Plant is a block away and where I had to pick them up. FWIW, Battery prices are currently all over the place for some reason. I got 40 lbs of lead for $211.97, and plan to do a better job maintaining these.
Battery # 1 was not in a box so I started with it, voltage was 12.6 and I connected it to my 12VDC 1500mA AC Adapter to charge yesterday, it is now up to 13.8 Volts about 18 hours latter and still cool. At this rate it will probably take 4 - 5 days to charge them all, but I'm in no hurry.
My next question is connecting them. The originals were all soldered, and used a awg wire I can't locate. On the B&B EB12-12 10AH Batteries I used a larger 10 gauge and insulated Quick Disconnects is case I had to return them latter and I could always quickly do a seperate 12 volt charge to help keep them balanced. What is the best way to connect the new CSB-Batteries EVH 12150 12V 15.0 AH?
I can also get the Batt EQ locally from Staab Battery but spending $179.00 to increase the life of $211.97 worth of Batteries just doesn't make good sense to me right now.
Since I'll also be trying to increase it to 60 Volts, It's just not a good investment and I have no problem with range I only use it to run local errands.
Once I get them all connected and recharged with one of the 48 Volt chargers, I'll now disconnect it and leave them disconnected, since I now know they don't always have to be left connected and unattended.
This winter I plan to bring all the Batteries inside, rather than leave them in the unheated Garage, is there anything I'm over looking?
Thanks for all the help, it's really appreciated.
usatracy,
Do you have some type of form you created to record all your Battery data?
Previously I never logged any mileage estimates or hours, that will also change, maybe a inexpensive "Watt's Up" Watt Meter and Power Analyzer will do the trick?
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
I can't think of a better way to connect them than how you had them before. BTW, you need to take them off the charger once they get up around 14.5v.
You don't need to worry about taking the batteries inside. They actually are best left cool IF they have charge in them. The combination of no charge and cold does kill batteries because this causes the electrolyte to freeze. But if they are charged than they actually self-discharge at a lower rate the cooler they are. They will have a longer shelf life too if left cool. But don't put them out in the sun, as that will heat them up really hot in direct sunlight.
Other than that, next time you charge on 48v monitor the pack and individual battery voltages. And that about covers it. Good luck with those batteries!
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
` ;)
Well it's now at 14.1 so I'll complete the 24 hour cycle in about 4 hours before I do another one.
So the 10 gauge wire won't be too large? Should I really be concerned that much about Ohms in my connections?
Now I am confused, the originals were doing fine until 2 winters ago, of course they wouldn't charge and I figured it was a defective charger, the dealer sent a replacement I had to pay for, it did the same thing, so they sent another one same thing. Finally I figured out the problem, they were too low for the charger to kick in, and took them apart and charged ea one separately. Since I felt the Dealer should have known that, I just keep the extra free charger for some satisfaction. Now I have 3 chargers.
When I opened the case the batteries where disfigured, but I continued to use them and I latter learned they were expanding or as I call it exploding right under my feet and butt because of the excessive sulfation. I figure it was because I left them out in the below 0 temp uncharged for several months.
So what do you think happen, they were probably going out before the Winter from being overcharged?
Thanks I really appreciate all your continued help.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Its hard to say. Batteries expand a little during there lifetime but not by much. Only thing I can think of is maybe the cold weakend some cells due to freezing and undercharge. Then when you began using the scooter again the cells were badly out of balance, and some were bad, causing some to gas and overcharge while others were not up to voltage yet. Meanwhile the charger measures a low pack voltage so keeps pumping in the high amps while the overcharged cells begin to gass badly and cause the batteries to bulge.
From your battery manual the operating temperature is down to 5 degrees F. I guess it would be a good idea to keep them inside if it gets below that where you live just to be safe. Its also best to charge them when they are at room temp. Cold battery temperature will require raising the charge voltage to charge them completely.
Oh ya, and make sure theres no "leakage" or drain on the batteries when the scooter is not being used. Even a very small load can drain the batteries dead in a short time. This may be what happened, and the batteries were left in the cold completely discharged.
---
Avatar taken from http://www.electricmotorbike.org/
My KZ750 Project: here
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
Pic from http://www.electri
`
These actually are no longer square.
Well the first one was completed at 13.8 Volts, my procedure wasn't well thought out ahead of time, so the 14.1 was probably with the Adaptor still attached the 13.8 #1 is 13.6 this morning so far so good.
#2 started at 12.6 and this morning it's 13.6 so that's probably as high as it's going to go I'll start # 3 this evening.
Yes it does get below 5 digress here in the winter, and the wind chill is -20 sometimes. Since we still eat when it's cold, I still make trips to get Groceries and look like davew all wrapped up. If it's very very cold I can probably take the Battery container in the store with me in a cart, or drop a thermal blanket over them. When I return home I'll start bringing them inside. They weight about 40 lbs, so my original plans were just to install the aux under the seat for short trips, but those batteries were not the best when I purchased them online. If I go to 60 volts, I'll need a extra 12 volt which I will place under the seat. I'll probably do the switch this winter, so if I smoke anything I can have it all replaced by Spring.
BTW, the Aux contains 4 12V 7.5 AH and I use to use it for my return home insurance on long trips, It can hold about 3 of the 12AH B&B so there still may be a use for them after all maybe for better lighting etc. with parallel connections.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Gman,
After 3 years we're probably be in the market for some decent Batteries after this season, so keep us updated. Seems you may be back rolling real soon, enjoy your holiday we're off to God's country.
`` :?
Well they all came out the box at 12.6, and charged up to 13.6, now doing second cycle and so far #1 is up to 14.2 with adapter connected, down to 13.9 when it's disconnected. I know I'm over cautious, but I have more time than money.
BTW I finally brought the main container that contains the B&B EB12-12 10AH Batteries inside and notice the case was warm from the sun and reading 50.8 Volts, the aux container also warm is reading 41.1 Volts, so I will recharge it when it cools to room temp with the 48 Volt charger, I it damages them I haven't lost any thing since I can get new ones free.
I'll keep you updated, plan on going to the Renewable Energy Fair Monday to do some V PR, and will start puttng everything back together when I return.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
` ;)
Well I have done several cycles, they all get up to about 14.2, and eventually drop back to 13.6, so I'll now install them in the case and connect the 48 Volt charger. It's raining here, so I might not be able to put the rear wheel back on until latter today for a test ride.The hub motor has been inside all this time, so it never got wet, only the controller etc. which I will hit with a hair dryer before hooking everything back up.
I'm very confident for the first time, I've done everything properly or to the best of my knowledge as far a the batteries go this time.
Peace Out,
Gman
What is your vision for the future our growing community?
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman