Thinking about a EVT 4000

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RedRum
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Thinking about a EVT 4000

I'm new here. Found this site doing some research on the EVT 4000. I'm thinking about getting one. Even more so when I saw a gas station on El Camino selling gas at $4+ a gallon even for the cheapest gas today.

I live in Foster City, CA and I was wondering if there was a local dealer that someone can recommend. I don't have a truck and I was also wondering how do most of you purchase an electric moped and take delivery of it?

mombearto4
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

The closest place to you I know of is Electric Motorsport in Oakland.

I have a minivan and haul smaller electrics in it. But it push comes to shove, it only costs $20 to rent a van from U-Haul and you could get it home that way.

kringle777
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Well, if you go to www.evtamerica.com, the site says that the reason they don't have dealers is they want to keep the prices low, so that's why they sell online only. From that, I guess you'd have to order one through them and have it shipped. Maybe you can purchase one from a dealer, but I don't know.

I'm on the waiting list for the EVT Z-20 and they just release an announcement that they expect to start shipping that model in July-August timeframe. I think it's cheaper than the 4000 even. But the 4000 has a track record and is available right now, so maybe that's why you want it.

I had also been looking at the X-treme XM-2000 for $1500 and it was going to be $70 to ship it to your door, or free shipping to have it shipped to one of the major freight terminals here in CA (Sacramento, Fresno, and one other place) and you could pick it up from there with a truck or large car. But I decided to wait for the Z-20.

Give them a call on their website and ask about the shipping cost. Good luck.

kringle777
Red XM-2000
Moss Green "Charger" ebike
Sacramento, CA

mombearto4
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Well, if you want one NOW, not RSN, then the 4000 is most likely the better choice, as the Z-20 has been on the brink of coming out for about two years now.

("RSN" = "real soon now," as in "we haven't the foggiest of if or when this will actually come to fruition, but we want to keep the hype on it going and keep everybody excited.)

RedRum
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Thanks for the replies.

I think I don't need it right now. But I would like one soon. I have to figure out what would be best. The Z-20 sounds good. Would that require a motorcycle license because of it's max speed?

mombearto4
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

In California you need a moped (M1) or motorcycle (M2) license for anything that goes over 20 (moped) or 30 (motorcycle) miles per hour, so yep, you would.

I don't know what you mean by "soon," but please do understand that the acronym RSN really *does* apply to the Z-20. Don't know if it's vaporware (i.e., will never come to pass) or not, but they'very definitely been stalling a loooooong time, which means that either they will have it right when it comes out, or they will slowly burn out and disappear, never to be heard from again if they hit their limit and can't keep going. (This is just statistically speaking in general. I know nothing about the company itself except that they keep postponing the release date over and over.

reikiman
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

I own an EVT 4000, it's a great bike. Since you're in the bay area it's easiest to go to electricmotorsport as they're just over in Oakland.

The Z-20 has been promised for so long with delay after delay .. the pictures look great but if you want a bike right now then can you trust they're going to deliver this year as they say? They promised two years ago they'd deliver then, and they made similar promises last year too. Z-20's company, EVT America, is one of the U.S. dealers of the EVT Taiwan products and they have been importing and selling EVT Taiwan bikes for a long time.

Electricmotorsport has been importing and selling EVT Taiwan bikes for exactly as long as EVT America. They're who I bought my 4000 from.

The "Real Soon Now" thing comes (so far as I know) from Jerry Pournelle, computer industry columnist (ChaosManor) and sometime science fiction author, who used that phrase whenever a computer product appeared to be vaporware. As in the manufacturer keeps promising that "Real Soon Now" they'll deliver their product ... but that Real Soon Now seems to never arrive in some cases.

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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

RedRum,

I'll chime in regarding the EVT 4000e: I'm having a blast with mine! I second the recommendation of Electric Motorsport in Oakland, they know what they are doing, and service what they sell. Talk to Todd or Patrick. I went up there and took a test drive of the Oxygen Lepton, the EVT 168 and the EVT 4000e before buying a bike. The EVTs are modable to do 35 MPH plus. The best advice I've heard is try out as many different bikes as you can before buying: the right bike for me may not be the best choice for you. There were several full size scooters on display at the Maker Faire this past weekend at the San Mateo expo center. I expect there will be at least two scooter vendors at the EAA rally in Palo Alto this August. See:

http://www.electricmotorsport.com
http://www.greenemotor.com

Since you're local, you can try out my 60 volt 4000e, but it'll spoil you for the stock version ; ) let me know if you're interested.

-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA

-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA

RedRum
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Hi Crusher,

Thanks for the links. Does anyone looked at the www.greenemotor.com scooters? They look like the EVT Z-20s. Could EVTAmerica just be buying the old e-max company scooters and changing just a bit of it? I'm curious if anyone has a GEM scooter out there?

MarkusSch
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Hello Crusher,

can you tell something about your EVT 4000 with 60 Volts?
How did you make it? Is there a risk or does the EVT 4000 take the 60 Volts without problems
or changes? What did change in acceleration and top speed?

I own a EVT 4000 in germany. It runs about 45 to 48 kilometers per hour.
The batteries could be better. They last 30-45 kilometers.

Regards, Markus

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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Markus,

wie geht's?

I used a simple wiring harness purchased from Electric Motorsport in Oakland, CA to add a fifth battery in series. If your top speed is 45-48KPH then your 4000e must also use the same version of the EVT controller. According to Todd at Electric Motorsport, the version of the EVT controller used in Asian countries has a top speed of approximately 53KPH (33MPH). The controller used in the US and Europe is limited to about 80% of the pack voltage output to the motor, hence speed is limited to 28MPH. The wiring harness from Electric Motorsport passes 48 volts to the logic section of the EVT controller, but sends 60 volts to the motor control section. This yields approximately 48 volts output to the motor. This is within specification for the EVT hub motor on the 4000e, and allows speeds of 35MPH+ (56KPH) without excessive motor wear.

I get about 20 miles to a charge. I am a top weight rider for the EVT 4000e, about 135kg (300lbs). I expect smaller riders will get a bit better range. I've noticed that the number of stops I make greatly impacts the range. I try to plan routes with the fewest stop lights.

I removed the under seat storage box to make room for the fifth battery. Full details on the modification with pictures here:

http://tinyurl.com/2o33oq

Ich kann auch Deutsch wenn's mehr verstandlich ist.

-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA

-Crusher300
Silver EVT 4000e (60 volt) San Mateo, CA

Gman
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

`RedRum ,
All that information is somewhere on the site, might have to look around a little bit. I can say I don't believe they are all made by the same people. All China Scooters will look basically the same, because most of the parts come the same few suppliers. The difference is what's inside.

Peace Out,
Gman

Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement

Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman

fender100
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

I just got a silver 2003 model EVT 4000e here in the UK secondhand.

It has a problem with the accelerator (throttle) which seems to be jammed into its fully open position.

Would the release of the throttle be a job for the layman? Is it a standard moped type throttle cable on the EVT 4000?

Could a standard moped centre fix it do you think?

Also, need some mirrors for it. What size thread is the mirror screw hole? I make it 9mm but it could be 8mm. Any ideas?

Thanks.

andrew
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

The maintenance manual is here.

I would first take off the screw holding the throttle assembly together on the handlebars (pictures in manual). I suspect something is jammed in there or the throttle would at least be able to rotate forward.

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adrian_nye
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

One caution/ complication, one mirror has left hand thread, the other has
right hand thread.

Adrian Nye
Austin, TX

Scooteruser
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Inside the controller box, the accelerator cable is connected to the throttle pillar. There is a spring deep inside an aluminum bar which is hard to access. This spring broke while I was driving a few weeks ago, and the accelerator was stuck on, while I was in traffic. This presented an extreme safety hazard.

I was able to remove and replace the spring myself, with a philips driver and small pliers, -- WARNING -- this will void your warranty! Mine was expired, parts were $0.50 and about 1 hour labor.

I have a lot of EVT scooter complaints, even though I love it and commute with it every day (when it works).

In the last 13 months I have driven 2500 miles (OD reads 3100, it is not accurate) on a 14 mile round trip commute and I would not recommend this scooter. When it works, I love it, but I have had to replace the batteries twice, replace the brakepads once, add a battery conditioner and a 3rd party charger at my own expense. When the dealer reported that the batteries were bad because of a defective charger, the manufacturer refused to honor their warranty, saying they didn't warrant the batteries. When I explained that the batteries went bad because of their defective charger, they started ignoring my emails. Now the motor is overheating after 13 months and 2500 miles, we'll see what kind of response I get.

I wouldn't recommend the EVT because for the price of the scooter (2500) plus all the parts and maintenance (1500)would have gotten me a nice gas-powered scooter, which would operate reliably for thousands of miles before requiring serious maintenance. I'm not saving money because it will take me 3 years to break even by saving gas, and I've already had to shell out half the original price on parts and maintenance.

Driving range is claimed to be ~25 miles, that is for a 150-pound driver, driving 15mph on a flat surface with no stops. Who drives 15 mph? My actual range is about 10 miles, my 15-mile round trip from Alameda to Oakland, about 100 feet elevation over 7 miles. The round trip almost fully depletes the batteries, so I always charge at my halfway point.

If you don't buy a BattEQ battery conditioner, you will be spending lots of money on batteries! Batteries are about $100 each. The stock charger likes to overcharge, and you will end up with a set of exploding batteries, the first in the series was so blown up I almost couldn't get it out of the battery compartment. The first battery set lasted 800 miles, the second set lasted 500 miles before the defective charger almost blew them up. Now that I have a (third) set of BB batteries, a Soneil charger, and the BattEQ, my charging problems have been mitigated. These upgrades are all no thanks to the manufacturer, whom I called repeatedly to no avail. I figured out these problems and performed the upgrades myself. So far, I'm about 800 miles with the upgrade with no problems (except the other problems).

BTW, the scooter that was delivered to me as new in Summer 2007 was manufactured in 2003 and the batteries included were manufactured in 2005.

I love the EVT scooter, but its reliability is subpar and the company will ignore you if they believe they can get away with it. Stick with an ICE gas scooter, you'll get years and years of reliablity, better warranty coverage, better acceleration and power, and you'll break even on gas savings a lot sooner.

reikiman
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Scooteruser, I bought my EVT 4000 in 2002 and haven't had anywhere near that level of trouble.

For me the stock charger self destructed early on. There was a handle which was held by a screw from the inside, the screw became loose, eventually fell off, and then one day it connected with the circuit board and poofed a component destroying the charger. I bought a pair of soneil 24 volt chargers and haven't had a lick of trouble with them.

However you're right - chargers can overcharge a battery and make it expand. I wouldn't call that "blow up" because it is very possible for a battery to truly explode (if e.g. you discharge it at too high a rate) and an expanded battery has not blown up (a.k.a. exploded) instead it has simply ..er.. expanded? I have a pair of batteries from my Charger bicycle which did this... very impressive.

The main trouble I've had has been batteries. The first set lasted a year.. but that was because over the winter I didn't ride it, and didn't charge it, and by next spring the batteries were not in good shape. But after that I got a set of batteries that were a "special deal" which sounded good, but they'd been sitting idle in a warehouse for a long time and probably weren't in so good a shape. Both those instances were my fault. When I had fresh batteries and a fresh bike I could get 25 miles range (measured with GPS) on a full charge.

You mentioned the motor is overheating. Have you opened the motor and cleaned the brush dust??? I suggest you read this article I wrote a couple years ago: Cleaning an EVT hub motor

This issue with brush dust is the main complaint I have of this bike. The motor is marked with warnings to not disassemble, there's no user servicable parts inside, but there is no way for the brush dust to escape. The dust will build up and will toast the motor. Since you live in Oakland you probably bought the bike from electric motorsport, and they know all about this issue.

- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
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Scooteruser
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Thanks for the tip regarding the motor brush dust, I think that is something I can handle and I'll check it out shortly. Yes, I am describing the "expanded" condition of the batteries as "blown up" or "exploded" because they were in such a condition that they looked like balloons.

I bought the scooter direct from EVTAmerica, and they have always been helpful and responsive. They even convinced the battery company to replace the batteries once. However, they are only a dealer, not the importer of record. EVTAmerica does not warrant the scooters, they are only a dealer. The real importer of record is EVS at EVTWorld. When I contacted them with technical questions, they were marginal at best, and when I asked them to address my defective batteries related to their defective charger, they began to ignore my telephone and email correspondence.

Electric Motorsport did perform maintenance for me, and was they who identified the defective charger. But even though I pointed the fact out to EVS, that their dealer repair shop reported the batteries were defective due to a defective charger under warranty, they offered to replace the charger (which I haven't received yet) but blamed the bad batteries on the battery maker and declined responsibility. I realize under the warranty terms that this is incidental, but a car buyer would never accept such a situation, (imagine your car battery defective because of a bad alternator) especially in the first year, under WARRANTY? That's suitable for a lawsuit, in my opinion.

While I really like the scooter, it doesn't supercede my complaints. My EVT review is a negative one: after 3,000 miles, 3 months frustration and downtime, I wish I had gone with the Honda scooter after all and I would recommend any scooter shopper to seriously consider a gas scooter over an electric one if you want reliability and professional manufacturer support.

venky58
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Hi, friends,

So far the EVT-4000e has been going great, and I keep charging the batteries up to a
full charge. I've traveled a total of about 72 miles now after receiving it in brand new condition from Electric Motorsport, with the odometer reading 1 mile on it then.

Since the last two days, I've started observing something.

When I take the scooter out for as low as 1 mile, from a full charge, the yellow lamp on the charge indicator keeps popping up all the time. Then I release the throttle momentarily and the green lamp now comes on, and the yellow lamp goes off. But it no longer becomes the "full charge" green. Instead, the green lamp to the left of the maximum-charge one lights up.

On two or three occasions, I noticed that the *red* lamp (out-of-charge) came up momentarily, and upon releasing the throttle, that went off.

Then I returned home half way from my ride, and put the batteries on full charge. And I feel surprised at how the batteries can so quickly go "out-of-charge" or something.

Can any of us here help pinpoint?

Thank you,

Venky
EVT 4000e Blue (13-Aug-2007)

Venky

EVT 4000e Blue (13-Aug-2007)

andrew
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

It sounds to me like a battery imbalance condition. When new the batteries may be balanced ok and you will get good performance with high load. But as they become more and more out of balance some are not getting a full charge while others are being overcharged. The ones that are undercharged may not be as strong under a current load in holding voltage. The ones getting overcharged may gas venting water (which is a main constituent of the electrolyte) causing the battery to dry out and perform worse.

If I were in your condition I would park the scooter and buy battery balancers and leave it parked until I installed them. Or buy individual 12v chargers. At the very least buy a 12v charger specially designed for AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries. A flooded battery charger will take the voltage too high and damage the batteries.

Charge each battery individually as often as possible. This should help balance the pack for now, but it will be a PITA and time intensive. I wouldn't ride the scooter again until you charge each battery individually separately from the pack with a 12v charger.

This is just my 2 cents. I don't own an EVT but am doing my best to piece things together. The SOC (state of charge) lamps are really just indicating the pack voltage. Some "fuel meters" take a voltage average, while some don't.

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[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
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reikiman
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Like Andrew said, I think this is a problem with charging the battery pack.

The EVT SoC meter isn't just a straight voltage reading, but they interpolate expected range based on your current throttle setting and power demand. Even so it shouldn't be going to the second green or to the yellow so fast.

Do you have a voltage meter? If not run to Radio Shaft or a similar place and buy one. You'll need to be measuring the battery voltage.

BTW, I would suggest starting a new forum thread for this ... it'll make it easier to find and it's not on topic for "Thinking about an EVT".

- David Herron, http://davidherron.com/

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Scooteruser
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Hi, this is exactly the issue which in hindsight would cause me not to buy the EVT 4000e scooter if I had the knowledge and the choice.

I began experiencing the same symptoms you are having within 250 miles, with my 8-mile commute, and things went downhill after that.

However, all is not lost. What you need is the SmartSpark BattEQ battery balancer, stat! Your batteries will suffer and fail before you reach 1,000 miles, in my opinion. I mentioned this situation in an earlier post to this thread. I got it for $179 plus shipping at Staab Battery and installed it myself. After installing the BattEQ, my scooter's performance has become significantly more reliable, although now I am dealing with this overheating motor issue (cleaned out the brushes--thanks for the tip David--noticed burn marks on the motor magnets), it's still overheating and now I'm out of warranty.

This is exactly why I consider if I had bought an ICE gas-powered scooter, I'd still be driving at 18 months and 3,000 miles, and be having few to no maintenance issues. My plan is to drive it until I break-even financially (set back 1 extra year because of maintenance expenses) from the gas savings, then get rid of it and consider something else. If I have to replace the motor, I'm through. I could have bought a real nice gas-powered scooter for the same price I've paid up to then. Big deal that I'm saving gas if I have to spend twice as much on maintenance.

Get and install the BattEQ, you can do it yourself if you're handy and follow the wiring diagram exactly. It's kind of tricky because there is limited space in the battery compartment and you have to trim the lead wires to fit all 4 batteries.

Furthermore, if you are using that stock blue charger, beware! Mine had an on/off toggle switch, and if you leave it on, it charges continuously and does not shut off! This leads to overcharging and destroys your batteries! I ended up buying a Soneil smart charger, which has automatic voltage detection and auto-shutoff feature. I also use a timer clock as a failsafe. For my commute, it only takes 1.5-2 hours to top off the batteries each leg. You might be able to find a better price online or elsewhere, but Electric Motorsport sold me the Soneil charger, and rigged it to work properly with the 4000e.

The BEQ4x12Vx50 (4 batteries, 12V each, up to 50 A-hr) is the one for your scooter.

BattEQ Continuous Charge Balancer
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/prod_batteq.htm

BattEQ Installation Manual
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/LA-50-12V-2%20Instructions%20V1.3.pdf

Best wishes, and I hope you can head off the sort of headaches and expense that I have had to suffer to date.

areiss1
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Sorry about getting this in a little late but here are my comments.

I have owned a 60V (Electric Motor Sport converted) EVT 4000E for 14 months. I would say it has been road capable for about 50% of that time. First, Todd (at Electric Motor Sport) created my conversion by taking out the 4 x 50A standard batteries and replacing them with 5 x 33A batteries. This was fine for quick acceleration and top speed of 38 mph BUT I had a range of about 8-10 miles! (This is about the range of my commute.) Meanwhile, my 5th battery Charger (a Soneil Model 1214S) burned up 3x! Todd blamed this on my home's wiring (which never had problems before or since). Eventually, I paid Todd to replace the 5 x 33A configuration with a 5 x 50A set. I also started to use a HomeDepot (Husky) 12V battery charger (for cars - non-portable) for the 5th battery. This brought my range back up to 15-18 miles but my entire under seat compartment was now taken up with batteries. Next, my Chroma (EVT standard) blue charger failed (1 month after warranty expired!). I bought a replacement charger from Green Rides in Campbell, CA (terrific folks) and so far everything is going OK (for now).

Bottom line, I am not sure that Electric is ready for prime time when it comes to scooters. If mine fails again, I am going to gas. If you do want to pursue electric though, the guys at Green Rides (ask for Mike or Aaron) are terrific.

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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Bottom line, I am not sure that Electric is ready for prime time when it comes to scooters.

I have to agree from the reviews I've been reading. Unless one wants or is capable of doing some upgrades and repairing, they should stay away from electric unless they buy it from a knowledgeable local EV distributor that can offer real support (like, being able to work on it).

[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/587-my-kz750-electric-motorcycle-project]KZ750 Motorcycle Conversion[/url]
[url=/forum-topic/motorcycles-and-large-scooters/588-fixing-my-chinese-scooter]900 watt scooter[/url]
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jdh2550_1
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000
Bottom line, I am not sure that Electric is ready for prime time when it comes to scooters.

I have to agree from the reviews I've been reading. Unless one wants or is capable of doing some upgrades and repairing, they should stay away from electric unless they buy it from a knowledgeable local EV distributor that can offer real support (like, being able to work on it).

I don't disagree but I would say that we're getting closer with each new iteration of bike. Sometimes it's one step forwards and two steps back - but most of the time it's two forward and only one back! It will be interesting to see how the new XM's turn out. They will undoubtedly need some form of work above and beyond unpacking for the simple reason that there's no pre-delivery inspection on any of these direct sales models. Add to that the SLA models don't come with any form of balancing and it's unrealistic to expect a carefree ownership experience.

Having said that - it's really not that difficult to take these scooters and make it a worthwhile commuter with the addition of a few hundred dollars in parts. The experienced folks on these boards have done that - and there's no reason why the new owners have to relearn this stuff themselves. It just seems that there aren't many folks selling these bikes that are prepared to address that reality with the folks buying them (and when I do I normally loose the sale).

I suspect (although I have no data to back this up) that the "cheap direct sale electric scooter" mechanical failure rate (e.g. warped disks, bad assembly etc.) is similar to the "cheap direct sale gas scooter" class. The trouble is that the "mainstream" wants to buy from a dealer. We need more bricks and mortar dealers (of which I am NOT one - mine is a virtual operation) selling standardized product (in areiss1's tale of woe s/he was starting from a bike significantly (and necessarily?) modified from it's original design).

I wonder what's stopping the scooter shops selling electric alongside their gas models?

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.

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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Thanks for the comments guys. The 48 to 60V conversion may have been a mistake though I did this because my commute involves travel on 35-45 MPH streets and I did not want to be "run down". I also bought the 60V EVT 4000e after holding out for over a year waiting for the Z-20, alleged to go 40 MPH. (I finally gave up when they announced their 24th or so delay.)

I think the other major issue was inadequate customer service at Electric Motorsport. I say this in complete agreement with John's description of the need for "bricks and mortar" dealers whose business model extends beyond selling you the scooter and hoping you never call them again. Electric Motorsport did have a good and honest service guy for awhile (Patrick) but when he left, so did customer service.

There may indeed be a "threshold" for getting electric into the mainstream scooter/motorcycle market. If the Vectrix model is successful (despite the outrageous price), then venture funding should open up for new or "in development" models. I also am excited about the reported development of hybrid scooters from Piaggio/Vespa. My family owns two hybrid cars (Civic and Camry) and I am very impressed with the technology, with respect to both emissions and mileage. A hybrid scooter that gets >100 MPG would be a very welcome addition to the array of current choices and would likely receive strong support from a large well-established dealer system.

The only other comment I have is in response to John's question about why gas scooter dealers don't have electric product alongside. I think the answer is that knowledge of combustion engines runs deep in our society whereas comparable knowledge about electric motors (which may, in balance, be easier to manage in the long run) is very shallow. Product reliability is also likely a concern although it would be interesting to know whether John is right about gas vs electric failure rates.

Keep a good thought in mind for my EVT 4000! It would be nice to ride through the summer without a major setback.

Allan
Stanford University

Trans-Port-Station
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

I jumped in late on this discussion.I have been an EVT dealer in Los Angeles since 2003. The original problems with the charger was rectified in 2005 -all new scooter chargers should have the upgraded chargers. Not sure how you can tell old ones from new ones - All of the recent chargers that I purchased from EVTWORLD.com had a small florescent pink sticker on it,But there
should be a model # that separates the old ones that over charged the batteries from the newer
ones.I sold 15 or so scooters (sad #'s not enough to make a biz from).Other then the early charger/battery problems I only delt with 1 motor failure(which was in warranty and was replaced by EVTWORLD promptly). EVT 168 and the 4000e were good scooters if used within their optimum range of 15 miles. Notice how I used "were" in this discussion because these models were originally from 2003. I would have hoped that in 5 years that things would have progressed
from the EVT scooters. Which to date have been the only real supported e-scooter sold in the US. I was told by EVS (evtworld) that they are very close to selling out of their stock and are waiting to see if they will import more scooters from Taiwan.They are asking dealers to commit
to a block of scooters before they will go ahead with importation. One thing that EVS did early on that I thought was a good idea was to ship scooters without batteries and I would source them locally. I think that this should be the way all these small electric scooters
bikes and mopeds should be sold therefore putting the onus on the local dealer to insure the
reliability of the scooter. There are many benefits to sourcing batteries locally one being
creating more commercial "players" that will make this market work. Maybe worth a separate thread. Peace !

"think outside the car"

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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Thank you so much for your experience with your EVT scooter. Yours is the fairest assessment I have read so far. I'd like to know your experience, if any, with the Lepton Oxygen? I live in San Francisco, and though I live and work in the flat industrial areas of town, I would like to take in all of my fair city's 7 famous hills. I've come to realize that a 60v scooter would have less of a problem climbing steep grades, and that there are a number of makers, including Oxygen, who are delivering such models later this year. Do you think I should stick with a proven brand, or take a chance with the new kids on the block?

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reikiman
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

The Oxygen has proved itself to work well in San Francisco. Lawrence Rhodes has one and he takes in all of San Francisco's hills including Twin Peaks using his. And FWIW we proved it will handle a, uh, ahem, heavy load.. due to a strange confluence of events he and I had to ride his Lepton together, and both of us are, uh, well, certainly well beyond slim, and, uh, it's a little amazing we both fit on the seat, but FWIW it rode pretty well on south of market main streets. Ahem.

Where did you see news that Oxygen is building new models?

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

Johnzane
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

I suppose I spoke too soon for some on the V community, who are already familiar with Oxygen's flagship Cargoscooters with Saphion® Phosphate Lithium-Ion (Li-Ion) battery technology: http://www.oxygenworld.it./en/2/one-platform-infinite-possibilities

Thank you for sharing your Lepton experience, it's quite an endorsement.

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Johnzane
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Re: Thinking about a EVT 4000

Thank you for a very informative report. You've touched upon many very important selling points, but one that stands out is the need for local dealerships, showrooms, factories, and reliable service. I still remember how poorly Japanese automobiles initially sold in the US. Then, as now, there was a prevailing bias against cheaply made Asian imports, which did not actually leave popular opinion until the Japanese built factories here. The same can be said about Daimler/Chrysler, who revived the Mini and Smart. I suspect Honda tipped it's hand to the industry by announcing it's own line of EV scooters four years ago, and it wouldn't surprise me if they acquired Oxygen and the troubled Vectrix. Batteries may be changing, and you've hit upon a valid idea for building scooters with standard cavities to hold them (like flashlights), but a major brand can do much more for an emerging industry, IMHO, than a slew of underfunded players. I also suspect the hub motor will do as much as the high price of gas to hasten the age of EV.

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