Vectrix lithium replacement

49 posts / 0 new
Last post
Galago
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 09:00
Points: 122
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

About 1500 miles since June. (when batteries were installed). Not bad for me as
this is not a commuter bike anymore; and, this equates to more miles than I have
ridden in the last ~~5years!! So to say I am thrilled with these batteries may just
be an understatement. I am taking NO chances with them freezing -> I WANT TO
RIDE NEXT SUMMER!! Finally have a set of batteries that seem capable to wear
out a set of tires!!
As for the fan: I think the heat generated has more to do with the type of post
material used for the phase wire connections. If you look back far enough in
these posts you will find where someone tried using copper for the studs. I
cannot remember whom it was (maybe MIK or ANTISCAB); also, I seem
to recall some discussion about whether or not the proper bonding torque
is/was obtainable with copper. I have a spare motor controller so I am not
too worried about it but would rather keep it going as long as possible.
I read recently where Antiscab stated he made custom connections.
It would be cool if he could post pics of those.

scooterguy
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: Friday, September 24, 2010 - 23:55
Points: 13
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I have put about 8000 miles on my Vectrix since I bought it a few years ago and often go 60 mph for 15 miles at a stretch and there is no evidence of heating at the controller phase connections. My recollection is that the early controllers burned up allot. I also have a spare controller out of a wrecked bike. The two controllers have different styles of phase wire connectors. One has metal sleeves that slip over machine screws that come out of the IGBT and the controller board is sandwiched between the sleeve and the IGBT. I think that is the old style because it still has a 150 amp fuse on it but not positive. The one in the bike has hex shaped metal pieces with a stud on each end and looks like it threads into the IGBT. It has the 200 amp fuse so it was upgraded before I bought it. How do the phase wire connectors appear on the controllers you have? I wonder if you could attach some kind of heat sink to the connections for increased cooling. Pieces of aluminum with fins or something. That might be relatively simple.

Galago
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 09:00
Points: 122
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

The connections are the hex studs. I snapped one of the threaded portions when I was
rebuilding after the crash. Removed it, ground it flat, then polished it to a somewhat
mirror finish, drilled and tapped then put a bolt into it (with head removed); seems
to work ok. Both of the controllers I have are the same.
I don't know about the heat sink idea...... that seems precarious, and would be wary
of adding any sizable mass into the already tight space around those connections.
The weather here can get rather warm in the summer (~~100`F) and my guess is
that doesn't help matters any when I am cruising a hilly two lane at 60mph.
Early Spring and Late Autumn seem to be the best times to ride as the
temperatures tend around 65-70`F. I have noticed (thru monitoring) the motor
controller phase cap temperature readings will climb when I ride faster than
about 53mph in 75+` temperatures.... slower and the m.c. temps will hold
steady or decline. When it's 65-70` I see no temperature rise when riding
faster than 55mph.... so in my case the weather seems to have an impact all
other things being equal.

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 hours ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I read recently where Antiscab stated he made custom connections.
It would be cool if he could post pics of those.

I certainly did make sleeves out of copper. They're functionally identical to the new version, where a bolt goes through the middle.

they're 13mm outside diameter, with the hole being 6mm diameter. total cross sectional area is 104mm2 - good for about 200A continuous

IMAG1309.jpg

The IGBT on this board has been replaced, so I've taken the opportunity to drill out the holes on the PCB for the phase terminals, so the copper sleeves bolt directly to the IGBT.

The + and - terminals aren't drilled out as the board needs them

I had heaps of them made in a few different sizes

Unfortunately, the height is off by about 2mm for the replacement for the stud that goes under the cross bar linking the main fuse (I forgot to take into account the washer and spring washer underneath the original mild steel stud)
The work around is to pack up the fuse mount.

I sell the sleeves for $AUD15each, with matching bolt and nordlocker. + shipping (~$AUD25 to the US)

If enough people need them stateside, it would probably be cheaper to buy a length of copper cyclinder and get a machine shop to cut and drill it (basically what I did)
a 4m length yields around 265 sleeves

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

scooterguy
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: Friday, September 24, 2010 - 23:55
Points: 13
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Thanks Antiscab. It looks like Galago and I both have the early type controllers. Here is a pic of mine when I got the bike at 4000 miles. I had to send the controller to Dave Dugas to have the memory reflashed so phase wire nuts are off in pic. The last time I looked at it was at about 10500 miles and it looked exactly the same with no discoloration or sign of heat. I drive fast sometimes but don't accelerate hard and it rarely is above 80 degrees F here in Oregon so maybe that is why it is still working ok. Galago. How did you monitor the controller temps? Did you ride with a laptop hooked up?
ggg.jpg

Galago
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 09:00
Points: 122
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi Matt! Good to hear from you and see you are still at it!

Galago. How did you monitor the controller temps?

A laptop??!! Heavens NO.
I have a CanMon (it plugs into the 9-pin in the glove box):
CanMon_2.jpg

scooterguy
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: Friday, September 24, 2010 - 23:55
Points: 13
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

That looks cool ! Looks like you are way ahead of me on test equipment. Nice that you got your bike going again!

Galago
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 09:00
Points: 122
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I think it is very cool, but it does need to be updated for the Li bike firmware; although,
most of the functionality is intact. Two issues I have noted are: the charge delivered parameter only goes
to 25.4Ahr's delivered and the Miles per Ahr calculation is non functional.... but the rest of it seems to be ok.
I guess I didn't anticipate battery technology advancing quite so fast. I will get to updating the firmware sooner
or later.... 8-)) but I have plans on a "newer, more modern" version.

Kevin_in_VA
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: Monday, August 19, 2019 - 05:37
Points: 11
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I'm about to button up the lithium conversion of my 2007 Vectrix. Should I be thinking about modifying my phase terminals before I reassemble everything? Would some copper washers help dissipate heat or something?

______________________________________________
2007 Vectrix VX-1 (19 gen2 Leaf modules, ESD charger)
2009 Miles ZX40S-AD

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 hours ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

it's not so much about dissipating the heat as not making it in the first place
The original studs are made of mild steel, which is a fairly poor conductor.

It might be worth checking the phase wires - if you're unlucky and they get too hot they start to oxidise and become hard, brittle and conductivity goes down
I normally only see this where one of the phase terminals have burnt out

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

Galago
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 09:00
Points: 122
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

my 2 cents ...

Should I be thinking about modifying my phase terminals before I reassemble everything?

couldn't hurt - the best time to do mods is when you have everything disassembled.

Would some copper washers help dissipate heat or something?

try to use a hard copper, something like 110 copper - think Ground Rod - don't use
soft drawn copper because you will wind up just re-doing it. SLEEVES are the way
to go - see Antiscabs pics is the above posts - try to get them machined to fit over
the studs. The reduced resistance the copper brings to the show will help with
reducing heat...... but all of this is predicated upon HOW you ride.
The two extremes:
City riding i.e. stop and go, not much over 25-35mph.
Cruising: highway riding i.e. 60mph for extended distances (10-15 miles and more!)
City riding will probably not require you to do anything with modifying the studs
Hard Acceleration and Cruising at highway speeds might.
Somewhere between city and highway riding? well that is something
you will have to watch. If you anticipate some hard riding - the sleeves will
help.

Kevin_in_VA
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: Monday, August 19, 2019 - 05:37
Points: 11
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Thanks for the tips. I do anticipate high-speed runs (my commute includes 8 miles of highway at speeds up to 65mph, though traffic can also drop that down to 45mph or slower). I found the video where Antiscab describes replacing the studs entirely and connects them directly to the IGBT (https://youtu.be/DNJuIynm1f4?t=162), so now I understand why sleeves are the easier way to go. Had I not already installed the lithium battery pack, I might have considered doing something more invasive and permanent (removing the MC), but now I have less space to work with.

I should also mention that the bike has under 800 miles on it and shows no signs of overheating or corrosion on the studs. Obviously that won't last forever.

______________________________________________
2007 Vectrix VX-1 (19 gen2 Leaf modules, ESD charger)
2009 Miles ZX40S-AD

scooterguy
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: Friday, September 24, 2010 - 23:55
Points: 13
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi Kevin. The controller in my 07 which I assume is original is fine after 12,000 miles. I live in Oregon so the weather is not very hot. I don't know how long you have had your bike or how many miles you have ridden it or what your riding style is but if you have had it a long time without any problems I suspect you will be ok. I would inspect the circuit board very carefully around where the phase wire connections pass through to the IGBT. If there is no sign of discoloration and everything is clean it will probably just keep going. If the board shows any sign of heat damage or discoloration you probably should address the problem. I just inspected mine yesterday and it looks perfect. You do run the risk of damaging the controller if you attempt to modify the terminals. Actually removing the IGBT looks pretty technical. I have a spare so don't worry too much. A new controller is $800 from Vectrix Parts in Poland including shipping and 23% VAT ( value added tax) tax which you might not have to pay if it's shipped to a non EU country. I'm not up on how that works. I bought a boat in France in the mid eighties ex VAT because I was taking it out of the country. Anyway, if your controller did fail at some later date it would not be the end of the world and you would have the new improved style. Just my thoughts. Maybe someone else will add their opinion.

scooterguy
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: Friday, September 24, 2010 - 23:55
Points: 13
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Oops. Obviously I didn't read the previous two posts. Only 800 miles ! Not a very good test.

Kevin_in_VA
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: Monday, August 19, 2019 - 05:37
Points: 11
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

For what it's worth, I didn't have to pay VAT when I recently purchased a center stand shipped from Poland to USA.

The temperatures in Virginia can get over 100 degrees F (38 C) in the summer, though I probably wouldn't be riding as much then. Averages 80s to 90s in summer, though.

On a side note, is the original flat, braided battery cable with blue Anderson connector sufficient for use with the Leaf batteries? I currently have my conversion set up to use the scavenged original, but realize it claims to be rated for 120 amps. I see that the motor controller uses AWG 4 wires, so would probably use that otherwise.

______________________________________________
2007 Vectrix VX-1 (19 gen2 Leaf modules, ESD charger)
2009 Miles ZX40S-AD

antiscab
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 hours ago
Joined: Saturday, July 7, 2007 - 23:55
Points: 1686
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I haven't had to pay VAT either when I have bought from Vectrix parts

You do have to tick the exemption box though (it's not automatic)

On a side note, is the original flat, braided battery cable with blue Anderson connector sufficient for use with the Leaf batteries? I currently have my conversion set up to use the scavenged original, but realize it claims to be rated for 120 amps. I see that the motor controller uses AWG 4 wires, so would probably use that otherwise.

The Blue Andersons are fine for use with leaf modules - I've used them in every conversion I have done

I normally cut the long ones in half, to connect the motor controller to the far end terminal of the leaf pack.

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion

nyandy
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 10:24
Points: 5
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I would need some advice. I restored to life my Vectrix vx-1, after a non-life stay of 9 years, when I bought it , with only 600 km on the dashboard. Now I can no longer charge the batteries after I was able to charge and ride another 4-500 km . Now even though the batteries are discharged on board it shows me 60-70% and the EST Range = 0 . After I plug to charge in will start the fan on BMC and in one minute it shut off and charging cycle would have ended. During this time I do not appear on board the icon with the charging socket. Are the batteries unbalanced? should somehow try to discharge the batteries? I Would apreciate some advise how to recharge my batteries? Or maybe is time for get new type batteries - replacement? Thank you, , Andy NC 20191023_200612.jpg20191023_200625.jpg

Andy

Bikemad
Bikemad's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 8 hours ago
Joined: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 03:03
Points: 213
Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi Andy,

I had a very similar charging problem which was eventually traced to damaged temperature sensor control boards interfering with the charger operation, and I had to unplug both the front and rear temperature boards before the charger would run continuously.

I also had to install The Laird's charger firmware to eliminate the constantly flashing battery and temperature lights on the dashboard.

Your problem may well be something completely different, but it might be worth removing the battery cover and unplugging both of the temperature sensor control boards to see if it makes any difference.

Alan

Pages

Log in or register to post comments


Who's online

There are currently 0 users online.

Who's new

  • Caribe
  • harmonline
  • ECCUK
  • E-scooter fan
  • Joe Frank

Customize This