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Spoiled Spoiler

Lighting: 
Basic chrome plastic "motorcycle" headlight, converted to run 2 watt High intensity super white 12mm LED, basic red plastic rear tail reflector wired and lit with LEDs. Will be adding turn signals, running lights and old school "AAAhh-OO-GA!!!" horn.
Number of wheels: 
2

Fresh Rubber From Choppers US.JPGBare Frame (with old motor).JPGSpoiled Spoiler (Test Fit).JPGBought a bone stock Schwinn Stingray Spoiler and soon after decided to convert it to electric. Little did I know then what a mess I was getting myself into. At first, I thought I would be happy with swapping the front wheel for a hub motor and that would be it. Boy was I wrong. With the Springer front end the motor groaned constantly and the wheel hop was real nasty. After spending a month doing some research, I finally decided what to do. My first attempt and higher performance was really simple. Add a big motor with a big sprocket to the rear wheel; add some big batteries and we'good right??? So... in went a 1000w brushed motor and a 90 tooth sprocket. Hauled ass when moving but had zero torque and was super hot after 10 mins. After a few back breaking hours of work and adjustments I was happy.... for awhile. After adding the perm mag motor and SLA battery pack, the bike was a beast to pedal.

A year later the bike was ready for round 3. After much debate concerning what kind of upgrade to go with, a fresh batch of used Schwinn Stingray Electric bikes were all over Craigslist and EBAY. I found one in good condition and robbed every part I could find. I wanted just the OE hub motor that was laced to the 20" x 4.25" rear wheel. Stock ratings were very low and so was the performance. At 24v the donor bike maxed at 15 mph. Then I added another 12v and then the motor had finally some balls. Almost 5 mph faster at 36v. So I began swapping the rear wheel on my Spoiler and made a big mistake. I took my original rear wheel and leaned it against the front wheel. Later when taking a smoke break, I looked at my Spoiler with the wide 4.25" tire next to the skinny 2.1". I loved the look of the wide tire up front. I thought how hard could it be?? So I decided to find another hub motor and go all out. A week later I found one and bought it. I am still working on my custom designed and milled triple clamps for the 4.25" wheel in front. The OE triple clamp is made from aluminum and measures 5/8" thick for the top piece and 3/4" thick for the bottom clamp. I purchased some raw aluminum from McMaster Carr as well as a 2" x 12", 1/8" thick sheet of 316 stainless steel for my torque arms. A local CNC shop wanted $500 to make them, but I simply can't justify spending that much so I'm milling them at work when I can. It is taking forever but I'm not spending $500. The bike only cost me $550. At some point I will also remake whole new steel dropouts for the Springer instead of the stock aluminum ones. So far my stainless steel torque arms are working for now. The hub motors come with the standard 24t threaded hubs. The rear one has the stock freewheel and a hub adapter for a 6 bolt 180mm rotor. The front hub motor has had the freewheel removed and two hub adapters bolted up to 2 180mm rotors. The debate still contiunes about which type of brakes I'll be using. Mechanical or Hydraulic....any input on this issue would be appreciated. The front end also has a basic “motorcycle” headlight as well as an iron cross tail light. Both came stock with "1157" 12v bulbs in them and will be soon swapped with high output LEDs. The chrome plastic battery case from the donor bike now houses my both of my motor controllers, key switch, XLR charging port and some diagnostic LEDs. Its kinda cheese ball for sure but it resembles a V-Twin motor and fits perfectly in between the cranks and is complemented by a fiberglass gas tank with a set of speakers, my audio system volume control, a Watt's Up meter and an IPOD dock molded into it. The "mini" subwoofer will be housed inside either the V-twin case or I was thinking about making a fiberglass fake oil cooler that can mount under the saddle. For now the entire system is powered by a 96 lbs 12v, 35ah SLA battery pack wired to 48v hidden in Saddlebags. The whole rear end of the bike has had battery trays permanently welded to the frame and the bags cover the batteries well. At some point when I have an extra $800 just floating around in my pocket I will swap them out with a LIFE4po battery that weighs only 15 lbs. When that happens, I'll adios the battery trays and saddlebags entirely, shaving over 90 lbs of dead weight. I still have a ton of work to do before it even ready for its next ride. Even then it wont be long before the backbone is chopped and I soft tail it with a mono-shock. If anyone else is interested in converting their Spoiler to a 4.25” wide front tire, please follow my progress and start placing some orders or deposits for these triple clamps. If I can get 10 people to buy them, I can have them all made for $250 a piece. Stay tuned for some new pics......

Heater: 
None
Charger: 
TNC-Scooters: 48v, 2.5a & Old 12v Trickle charger, 1.5a
Location: 
San Juan Capistrano / California
Batteries: 
Power Factor: (4) 12v, 35ah & Power Factor: (1) 12v, 12ah
Conversion time and cost: 
Not a good question to ask. This information will discourage others. Especially in this case. Too much.
Drivetrain: 
Ananda 198 BLDC Hub Motor (x2)
Method for 12v system: 
Seperate 12ah battery for lights, audio system, phone charger, i-pod, ect.....
Controller: 
BL4815: (48v, 350w, 15a max, E-Crazyman) (x2)
Watt-hours per mile: 
Unknown
Miles as an EV: 
0
Seating capacity: 
1
Top speed: 
Unknown - not finished
Motor: 
2
Typical range: 
Unknown
Vehicle Type: 
System Voltage: 
Vehicle maker: 

Comments

I think you are working on some great ideas. I am looking forward to seeing the next set of pics with the new front end. I wish I could afford your triple clamps, but I don't think I could even if 9 other folks wanted some. I am really curious to see your solution (and the results), though. I am a little confused by the specs - are you still using the OE hub motors?

Thanks!

IMG_5116.JPGIMG_5116.JPGThanks for the encouragement Keen Eddie, I'm constanly yaking about this project to all my friends and they ALL think I'm nuts. Its nice to hear otherwise. And yes. I bought one whole donor bike that I scrounged parts from and found another hub motor online. Both are the same Ananda brushless OE hub motor from the childs version of the "Electric Stingray Chopper". The triples are coming along, but only working for 10-15 mins per day isn't much progress. Once I have one set made I can set up a jig to whip out copies. I'll put up a pic of my first attempt, the bit got too hot and expanded towards the end of one of the through bores. With the hole slightly oblonged this piece was scrapped for a newer design. I don't want to use shims for something one of a kind like this. Not cool in my book. This what I have done so far on the new one as well. I still need to trim and clean the edges. Once I get that done I have to drill and tapp the mounting bolts. Its going to look fudging awesome.

IMG_5116.JPGThanks for the encouragement Keen Eddie, I'm constanly yaking about this project to all my friends and they ALL think I'm nuts. Its nice to hear otherwise. And yes. I bought one whole donor bike that I scrounged parts from and found another hub motor online. Both are the same Ananda brushless OE hub motor from the childs version of the "Electric Stingray Chopper". The triples are coming along, but only working for 10-15 mins per day isn't much progress. Once I have one set made I can set up a jig to whip out copies. I'll put up a pic of my first attempt, the bit got too hot and expanded towards the end of one of the through bores. With the hole slightly oblonged this piece was scrapped for a newer design. I don't want to use shims for something one of a kind like this. Not cool in my book. This what I have done so far on the new one as well. I still need to trim and clean the edges. Once I get that done I have to drill and tapp the mounting bolts. Its going to look fudging awesome.

I agree. You're going to have something to be proud of. Whether they think you're nuts or not, I'm sure your friends will be impressed when they see it. As soon as I rode one of the Electric Stingrays, I had a similar idea for one of my bikes. But I don't have the tools or the skill to try the things you are doing. I really enjoy following your progress. Sorry to hear about having to scrap the early attempt. I guess it shows why you drill the holes before you cut the piece out. You lose less material that way.

Are you really going to run 48 volts through each of the motors? At full throttle you'll probably get 0 to 30 in about 2 seconds! Will they hold up? Thanks!

hi there,

can you describe the "With the Springer front end the motor groaned constantly and the wheel hop was real nasty." in a little more detail?

i'm about to do a conversion on my spoiler and currently my plan is also to swap the fron wheel. although i just want to use a 250W motor.

thanks a lot

Sup nekedlunch,

Ok, first things first. The springer front end is too long for a motor. At least one that will move the bike more than 10mph and not eventually ruin the front springer. The motor I put on the front end was also low powered. The biggest issue is that all 4 of the tubes are so far away from the triple clamps that they twist under even the lightest braking. I'm sure you have noticed that when braking heavily with only the front brake that the wheel and front forks twist forward and to the right. IF your going fast enough and brake hard enough all the spokes stretch and your wheel inst straight anymore. I was able to even out the braking twist by adding a second rotor and caliper. The same principle applies to the torque generated by the motor. The forks twisted to the right until both bike and motor were at even speed. After all my head scratching about gussets and thicker walled tubing I bit the bullet and decided to order a custom motor (Crystalyte-Pheonix Racer) built with the 170mm rear axle width, it also will come with a 3 or 7 speed freewheel and rotor option.

If your even serious about adding the motor, spend a little more and do it right the first time. I'm in the midst of attempt 3 and still working out the bugs. Its all part of the fun but don't waste your time and money, thats why I posted. To save others time, money and frustration.

I copied this from my email. If anyone is interested in a rear hub motor here is your info.... Ask for Kenny at Crystalyte or Mike at ElectricRider

Ryan,

OK, sounds good. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy new year!

Thanks,
Mike
-----Original Message-----

Gooood Morning Mike,

Sorry, I totally spaced on getting you those specs last night. I had tickets for a Metallica show and was a little preoccupied. Anyways, everything sounds good. I really appriciate you letting me know I can wait until January to send you my deposit. I could really use that money elsewhere this time of year. I'll get all my measurements this weekend and keep in touch with Kenny.

If I don't bug you about something till January, have a Merry Christmas and a Great New Year!

Thanks, Ryan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan,

Yes, we use 12g spokes. Our standard spokes for our 20" rim and Phoenix motor are 77mm in length. We don't have a mic to measure the diameter, but I did a search online and came up with the following:

12g = 2.6mm
13g = 2.3mm

We have a "video" on youtube which has a bunch of still pictures of our customer's bikes. I believe there are 1 or 2 choppers on that video, but I'm not sure if it will help any. I don't remember who those customers were, and they never told us if they had issues to overcome. Their choppers may have been different than yours, I'm really not sure. I wish we could be of more help on this....

His 2 week lead-time is to make the motor. Then you have the choice of waiting a few months to have it come in on our next container shipment, or paying the $200+ to have it shipped DHL to arrive in a couple weeks. The motor itself is $409.99, so we'd require $205 as deposit. The $200+ shipping charge would be due as shipment is scheduled, if you decide to air freight it. Otherwise it will arrive in Spring with our next container shipment and you would not have to pay the shipping from China. If you would like to wait until our next container shipment, you would need to place the order by end of Jan, so you have some time. We would not require a deposit on the controller, only custom components that we do not advertise or sell.

I agree, this is a bad time of year for any additional expenses. Hopefully this is within your budget as I can tell you really want it. I look forward to seeing the completed chopper when the time comes!

Thanks,
Mike
ElectricRider Team
628 N 2nd St
Lawrence, KS 66044
785-749-0949
http://www.electricrider.com

-----Original Message-----

If I remember correctly, you guys stick to using 12 guage spokes. Any chance you know how wide they are in inches or mm. I can mic my old motor and see what guage spokes they are using. I have (3) 4 1/4 rims, 2 with existing motors and my OEM spoiler wheel. I'm sure the 5303 has a larger motor structure than my stock one. Maybe we can use the spokes from my old motor. The spokes should be long enough if the 5303 is close to or larger than the old motor.

If not, I sent a meesage to ChoppersUS.com asking them about what size spokes thier brand new raw rims can fit. I'll forward the info as soon I get a response.

In the mean time, I'm going to measure my dropouts when I get home and double check the axel size and my current spoke guage and lengths.

I was also curious about your other chopper customers who used the standard axel. By chance do you have pics or know what forums they have posted thier projects on?

Thanks, Ryan

BTW: 2 week lead time? is that shipped to you? what about the 4 month wait? With Christmas coming, $250 is all I can afford to use as a deposit for the custom motor. I don't need to have a deposit in for the controller too, do I? This is the worst time of year to have cash tied up in a deposit but I really want this motor so let me know if thats good enough. My Christmas bonus should be rolling through in early January, so we have plenty of time to figure out all the details.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan,

The only thing that worries me is lacing the rim. Our wheel builders can lace about anything, but we'd need the right length spokes, the right gauge spokes, and a rim with the correct size spoke holes for the gauge of spoke you want to use. If you have all this worked out, no problem. The labor would be $40 for lacing a custom wheel. Will you supply the spokes and rim? The controllers are $299.99.

One reason we've stuck to selling kits instead of complete bikes is this reason, we like to see what customers come up with on their own. It's a lot more fun that way, and it becomes more personal and adds sentimental value to the person building the vehicle. Many custom vehicles turn out far better than any mass produced bike we could manufacture. We've had a few customers do custom choppers like this, but somehow they made the standard axle length work.

Kenny says 2 week lead time. He seems to know what you need so I assume you've discussed it with him already. Let me know what you'd like to do.

Thanks,
Mike
-----Original Message-----

Sounds good Mike,

I'm really suprised that I'm the first one to ask for this sized axel. No wonder its has been so problematic finding one. Seems like I'm the first or only on alot of my project, like making my custom triple clamps for fitting the same 4 1/4" x 20" wheel on the springer front end. The original front tire was a super thin 2.1" x 24".

See what you can work out with Kenny, add in the controller and labor cost for lacing the wide rim and shoot me a price for it all and how much you want for a deposit. I really don't want to wait for 4 months but an extra $200 makes my balls hurt.

Thanks,

Ryan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan,

I see, I appreciate the details. I also completely understand needing more than 350W, choppers are great with a Phoenix. I'll contact Kenny and see if these motors are available, we've never sold one nor had a request. If nothing else, we can special order one for you. The problem would be the wait period of about 4 months before we receive our next shipment, unless you are willing to pay around $200 for airfreight to get it here in a couple weeks.

On special orders we require a 50% deposit before we order, I hope that's not a problem. Let me know what you'd like to do, and in the meantime I'll get with Kenny.

Thanks,
Mike
-----Original Message-----

Good afternoon Mike,

I'm pretty sure its 170mm between the dropouts. The bike uses the standard Stingray 4 1/4" x 20" wheel. Check out the pics to get a better idea, the x-lyte pic is courtesy of Kenny at Crystalyte. The others are of my bike, the motor in that pic is the OEM motor from the kids Schwinn Electric Stingray Chopper. The motor is only rated for 350w, thats why I want a bigger one. It fit perfect but it has no balls. In the words of Ricky Bobby "I wanna go FAST!" I'm thinking an upgrade of 2500w is right up my alley. 8^)

I was hoping you might be able to lace a rim to it as well. I can send one to you if you don't have the 4 1/4 rims. My buddy Alan over at ChopperUS.com has some nice heavy duty ones available. If you guys can get the 5303 with these axel dimensions, you two could probably get together and sell a bunch of them. He has alot of customers with this sized axel.

Let me know if I need to get out my ruler.

Thanks, Ryan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryan,

Does the axle need to be 170mm in total length or is 170mm where the dropouts of the forks will go?

Thanks,
Mike

Good morning Electric Rider,

I have a Schwinn Spoiler I converted to electric last year and I want to add a high end motor for Christmas. I need the motor with an axel 170mm wide. I spoke with Kenny at Crystalye and he says the motor with that axel size is available and that I should contact you.

I will need the 5303 (racer) motor with a single speed freewheel and the disc brake option. 170mm wide axel from lock nut to lock nut. I plan to run it at 72v, so I'll need a price for the controller too.

Thanks,

Ryan Eldridge

Hi Spoiled spoiler , did you say you bought a rotor and caliper for the other side of the front fork ??? If so were did you find the set ? please !! and who was that you talked to for the motor with 170mm inner fork locknuts to215mm end of axle? ? I have a schwinn adult spoiler like yours, love That frame , could use more braking power on the front wheel !! thank you for your time LaTeR PS see bykes I built

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

Hi Spoiled spoiler , did you say you bought a rotor and caliper for the other side of the front fork ??? If so were did you find the set ? please !! and who was that you talked to for the motor with 170mm inner fork lock-nuts to215mm end of axle? ? I have a schwinn adult spoiler like yours, love That frame , could use more braking power on the front wheel !! thank you for your time LaTeR PS see bykes I built

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

The rotor and caliper were sourced from the oem rear brake. I simply ordered another Tektro front brake adapter ($10) and bolted it on, if you look the other side of the springer has a relief cut and bolt holes for the caliper, same with the front hub. It has machined holes for the rotor. One of those rare cases where someone was thinking ahead over at Schwinn. If they only made a nice high quality dual caliper, we would be set. Since they don't go buy another similar rotor and caliper set for the rear and a "dual pull brake lever" for the 2 front cables. Even the springer tube has a hole a for the 2nd cable, Very nice.

The only uber-gay thing about it is the left brake cable will be sticking way out in front of the caliper. I had ChoppersUS send me their dual caliper set but the quality was so bad I couldn't put it on my bike no matter how much better they looked.

One of these days I'll justify spend $600 just to get what I really want (up front only). The Hope M4 series hydro's, duals of course. Those brake sets give me a hard on. Knowing me I'd get 3 sets and never have to worry about stopping regardless of speed or weight.

The motor you need is the Phoenix 5303 racer motor. Kenny knows which axle you need. And no its not legal but how many cops have a dyno or even a multimeter or know Ohms law? Seriously the only way your gonna get busted is if your doing something really stupid. As long as it looks like your pedaling you should be fine. I've been stopped by cops several times but they just want to know what it is. Usually have some converts after they take it for a spin.

As far as the motor goes, Motor specs and tech stuff...... kenny [at] crystalyte.com

Sales, service, parts, ideas, encouragement... Mike at sales [at] electricrider.com

Hay Spoiled, Thanks for that info. I'll be looking into those ! bit of advice My byke bounces on the front wheel when i brake hard with one disc ! not enough weight on the front wheel if you can at all do it, put the battery in front and under your seat the frame is strong enough to cut the seat post out and use a Harley sportster seat adult stingray  spoiler 004.jpg For the next one, I want a hub motor and I'll put the battery weight middle forward to aid in holding the front down
LaTeR

thank GOD I wake up above ground !!!!

reg. your front disc brake on the left: i took off the caliper from the front right side to try it out: doesn't work on the left. ther are holes, yes but the caliper's brake pads are not centered. can you provide a close up pic of that? thanks for your help. highly appreciated!

the caliper isn't parallel to the bolts. the slot for the disc is at an angle (dotted line).

ok, here's how i did it: i just grinded 4mm off the underside of the left fork "wing".

after that i bolted the standard front caliper onto an adapter i found (don't know if it's from the tektro or an old julie) and re routed the brake line in the left fork tube. voila!

Hello Spoiler I have a Schwinn as well. I would like to know if you can tell me how you reenforced the rear dropouts for the hub motor. Can you send pix? I wish to do mine with a rear motor, but I am haveing doubts as to whether I should use this bike, or get a steel framed chopper, and go that way.

//i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa251/RallySTX/Netpics/PHOT0001.jpg)

Brian L.


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