Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

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staticGenerator
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Being relatively new to pursuing an electric Motorcycle/Scoter, I have to say I am pretty disappointed.

If you're looking for an e-motorcycle, here are your likely choices: Brammo or Zero. Brammo has great marketing presence: glitzy website, well put together videos, great sounding words of e-mc leadership. Zero: trying to enter the street market with their crossover street/off road bike - great if you want that style of bike. Again well marketed, appealing website and photos. Zero is all over Fox News. Ehem...Who at Fox has invested in the Zero?

Now, I had submitted a request to hold a Brammo Empulse shortly after the bike was announced. Test bikes will be available to ride at Best Buy - they say in July of this year. Too good to be true? darn straight. I get an email this month saying, "We still have a good amount of work and testing to do in order to bring you the world's greatest electric motorcycle". I knew something was up from the beginning when Brammo wasn't taking any cash to hold orders. At least some review of both of these companies 'currently' available rides have been covered in actual MC magazines.

Next we turn to scooters. The scooter market offers some great alternatives to the MC offerings at price for performance. But the scooter market exhibits even more uncertainty than the MC market. I had never heard of ZEV prior to being introduced to them by a forum member here. Yet, the owner of ZEV states that he is selling enough scooters, and is building quickly to keep up with production. I was lucky enough to actually ride one of these bikes myself, and write an amateur review of my experience. After reading the review of the Current Motors Scooter I'd be scared to death to put any money down for that scooter. The reviewer states that he has a history with e-scooters since 2001ish? I admire his "stick to-it-veness". After 10 years haven't scooter manufacturers nailed anything down? Are there any standards at all?

So far, the only scooter manufacturer that I have seen being willing to put their money where there mouth is ZEV. They've offered their challenge to other scooter manufacturers to a 1 on 1 and they also offer their opportunity for potential customers to fly out to their location at their cost. But, ZEv is obviously a company run by an engineer, and the marketing and presentation appeal to engineering types. Unlike Brammo that will have a broad appeal. ZEV needs some marketing help. Other than that, I don't have much confidence in the e-scooter market. You have to be willing to "take one for the team" by plunking down $7 - 12K. That's a lot of cash for something that performs like a scooter. I can buy a brand new SV650S for $6K! Why would I spend more than that for a scooter from a company that has no reputation and might be out of business next year?

Without any background in this EV market, I would like to see an objective side by side comparo review by a qualified reviewer, of any e-scooter manufacturer that thinks their EV is worth their salt. Who, when, where this review would happen remains to see, but the manufacturers need to cooperate and send their best representative scooter to the test. If there isn't some cooperation in this market, I feel that one of the big Japanese/Korean manufacturers are going to come out with their branding and reputation along with a superior marketing plan and you scooter manufacturers will be a thing of history nearly overnight...

So what do you say e-scooter manufacturers? Put up or shut up?

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

staticGenerator wrote:

So what do you say e-scooter manufacturers? Put up or shut up?

Sure. If you can get other e-scooters involved and a qualified independent reviewer we'll submit to a side-by-side test. I'd suggest you contact Josh Rogers - owner/publisher of Scoot magazine. The review should be about the complete package - typical to a scooter review - not simply an acceleration test.

I am not aware of a 1 on 1 challenge from ZEV.

Current Motor Company is in this for the long-haul and you will see our product continue to evolve. I am sorry you feel "scared to death" by one reviewer (who is actually quite positive about our bike). You may wish to read other reviews of our bike on this site. If you're ever in the area (Ann Arbor, Michigan) you are welcome to stop by our facility.

Kind regards.

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Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

Johnny J
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

What scares me is the ZEV website, "4. Kw battery capacity." f.ex....

staticGenerator
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

jdh2550_1 wrote:

Sure. If you can get other e-scooters involved and a qualified independent reviewer we'll submit to a side-by-side test. I'd suggest you contact Josh Rogers - owner/publisher of Scoot magazine. The review should be about the complete package - typical to a scooter review - not simply an acceleration test.

I am not aware of a 1 on 1 challenge from ZEV.

Hi John,

First, that's a great offer! I will contact Scoot mag (and/or others) to see if they would do a review of those willing to pitch in.

Absolutely, these reviews should cover all aspects of the rides: Build Quality, component quality, fit/finish, miles per full/charge, handling, etc, etc. And there should be at least 3 reviewers to get a broad sense of opinion.

Again, anything other than the scooter rode fine out of the box is concerning, since there isn't a track record with any of the electric scooters. So, I'm sorry if I'm overly cautious but I'll check out other reviews.

And, if I am in the area I will certainly take a trip to your location to see your scooters. I wish you the best of luck in your business and hope that you are here for the long haul. I'd much rather see some startups lead the market with their product.

In regard to the 1 on 1 from Zev, I believe I may have read that in one of the online magazines or websites. But I may have ben incorrect. If I find it I will post it.

I will keep you all posted on this thread.

staticGenerator
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Re: PUT UP OR SHUT UP - Scooter Showdown at High Noon?

jdh2550_1 wrote:

Sure. If you can get other e-scooters involved and a qualified independent reviewer we'll submit to a side-by-side test. I'd suggest you contact Josh Rogers - owner/publisher of Scoot magazine.

Ok, I was able to talk to Josh at Scoot Magazine. Josh was not only willing to do a review of electric scooters he's been trying to do a review of them. He says the problem is that manufacturers have not been willing to get the scooters delivered to their location to complete the reviews!

So, I think we can count on Current Motors for the challenge, correct? Let me know if that's correct and I will start contacting other scooter manufacturers to see if they are up for the challenge or if they will just turn tail and run.

Thanks!

Randy W
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

Please continue this effort, and let us know when it gets published. Will be a fascinating "comparo" as they're called. I think the time is right for electric scoots or MCs to be the perfect "second car".
Randy W
2 Zapinos

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antiscab
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

staticGenerator wrote:

You have to be willing to "take one for the team" by plunking down $7 - 12K. That's a lot of cash for something that performs like a scooter. I can buy a brand new SV650S for $6K!

You could also get a Roehr,

a bit more brand value and also American made

They do motorbikes,

$18k gets you 50kw and $32k gets you 72kw

yup, expensive hobby we have here :)

Matt

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Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst replacement TC Charger
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost to do it again: $2500 + $5600 + $1720 + $960 + $320 + $720 + $140 + $600
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $6000 + $800 + $1400 + $3200 servicing
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Total to have used a petrol bike: $18840
Total distance travelled so far: 79'120km

staticGenerator
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

Ya'll

I am looking for e-scooter manufacturers that have scooters ranging from around $7K to $12K for this "head to head" battle of the scooter. Is anyone "Ready to Rumble? Volunteer your favorite e-scooter manufacturer or throw your hat in the ring if you are one.

I will be composing a letter to manufacturers soon appealing to their need for one-upmanship and competition.

Who will step up? More info coming soon...

Mik
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

staticGenerator wrote:

Ya'll

I am looking for e-scooter manufacturers that have scooters ranging from around $7K to $12K for this "head to head" battle of the scooter. Is anyone "Ready to Rumble? Volunteer your favorite e-scooter manufacturer or throw your hat in the ring if you are one.

I will be composing a letter to manufacturers soon appealing to their need for one-upmanship and competition.

Who will step up? More info coming soon...

Good idea, but potentially open to abuse - by sending in scooters that are much better than the average one!

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jdh2550_1
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

Mik wrote:
staticGenerator wrote:

Ya'll

I am looking for e-scooter manufacturers that have scooters ranging from around $7K to $12K for this "head to head" battle of the scooter. Is anyone "Ready to Rumble? Volunteer your favorite e-scooter manufacturer or throw your hat in the ring if you are one.

I will be composing a letter to manufacturers soon appealing to their need for one-upmanship and competition.

Who will step up? More info coming soon...

Good idea, but potentially open to abuse - by sending in scooters that are much better than the average one!

I agree with Mik - and also a similar issue which is we're still improving our bike and we're running a test pilot program with a $2K rebate. All these things "muddy the waters". But if you can figure out a way to account for this then, yes, Current is in...

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

jdh2550_1
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

Hi StaticGenerator,

After once again being hauled over the coals by an avid ZEV owner (I admire his passion for his bike) I'm wondering if you've made any progress on securing commitments from any other manufacturers for an independent test?

I'm also happy, just like ZEV, to host a test at our facility. I'll even arrange for all bikes to be fitted with data acquisition hardware including GPS so we can record independent measurements of speed, battery voltage and current.

I also realize that's pretty unlikely to appeal to any other manufacturers - just like ZEV's apparent 1 on 1 challenge doesn't appeal to me.

I'm getting kind of lonely being the only manufacturer on this board that posts regularly!

__________________

John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas. No Worries." - JDH, CuMoCo || "Make Volts Not War" - anon.

Gusset
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Re: Uncertainty of Scooter/MC EV Market - PUT UP OR SHUT UP

jdh2550_1 wrote:

I'm getting kind of lonely being the only manufacturer on this board that posts regularly!

I hope this isn't grounds for a thread hijacking accusation, but I for one greatly appreciate your presence. I'm not in the market for an electric scooter at this time, but if my Daelim S2-250 ever dies then an e-maxiscoot will definitely be on the short list. Being an R&D engineer myself, I have an appreciation for the development process and all that comes with it, and your openness here is a breath of fresh air, as is your "positive professionalism" when responding to the variety of tones that can present themselves in a public forum such as this. If I was anything close to local, I'd have asked you long ago if you need any contract engineering moonlighting assistance... ;)

Keep it up.

-Victor

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