Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after turned on (Xm-4000li)

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ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21

Just got my xm-4000li (used). The bike has been in storage for months. It was shipped to me from New York. I got my first ride to check it out when the battery was about 20% full. I went for 2 blocks around the neighborhood. At about 150 yards back to my house, the red LED on the dashboard started blinking, and bout 20 seconds later, all of the lights and turn signals went away. The bike was still running so I rode home for 150 yards with no lights. As soon as I got back, I plugged it in. It took several hours to complete. After the battery was charged %100, I turned the key to on, the red LED was on solid, turn signals, lights, and horns worked for about 15 seconds. Then the lights slowly dimmed and went away. However, the motor still worked well and have full power. When I turned everything off and turned it back on again, for the subsequent times the lights only came on for 4 or 5 seconds or less. Could it be my DC-DC converter is bad? Loose wire? Blown fuse? Thanks.

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IBScootn
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Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

My guess is it's the dc-dc converter or you're over loading it.. Put a voltmeter on its output. If it fails, then put the voltmeter on its input. If voltage stays good on the converter input but output fails, then you know it's the converter or it's load is too high as in there might be a short in the wiring. So disconnect the load and put an ammeter between the load and the converter to see if you're drawing more current than it can handle.

Cheers,

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PzlPete
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Joined: 06/22/2009
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Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

That is interesting. In 13,005 miles the lights on my 4000li have never done that. For starters, how many miles do you have on it? What is your voltage at full charge? And how did you determine that it had 20% capacity remaining? You really don't want to run these cells low, ever. I once saw my turn signals stop working during a ride, but turning the key off and back on resolved that. My headlights went off once when the breaker flipped due to hard accelaration up a hill, but again, turning the key off and back on fixed it, and the next 5,000 miles were fine. Again, I am at 13,005 miles, so I have gone halfway around the planet with everything original except the tires and brake pads, and the 4000li has been a troublfree dream to ride.

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

IBScootn, Thanks for the instructions. I will check it out this weekend and let you know how it goes.

PzlPete, my 4000li only have 188 miles on it. Everything looks to be in good condition. I got it for $1550 (cash). Because of the tricky financial transaction, it ended up costed me $450 to ship it form NY to Atlanta, GA. The seller told me that he had it in storage for many months and now decided to get rid of it. Also he did not buy it new either. It is hard to tell what is the history of the bike.

Even the 12v for lights and horns are not working, the battery gauge on the dashboard is working fine. I looked at the gauge and estimated that it was about 20%. After a full charge, the meter reach to the top 100%. I don't know much about this bike but it looks like I will have to open it up soon to address the problem. 13,000 miles on an electric moped is quite impressive. I hope mine could make that far without a lot of problems. Thanks.

marylandbob
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Joined: 06/22/2009
Points: 520
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

Someone may have replaced a bulb with a higher wattage part, or added an extra 12 volt device, thus OVERLOADING the DC/DC convertor! Check the ratings of the bulbs, ESPECIALLY the headlight, and be sure that high and low beams do NOT light at the SAME time. Most of these bikes do NOT take well to additional current loads of the DC/DC convertor. Check the STOCK wattage ratings, do not exceed them.

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LeftieBiker
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Joined: 07/09/2011
Points: 654
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

A quick and easy way to test the DC/DC converter is to put it on low beam, or better yet turn the lights off, if you have that option, and see if things stay on under minimum load. If they do, turn on the high beam and turn signal; if that kills the accessories it's the converter or the connections to it, or high-current lighting.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

Oh, and check the main 12 volt fuse. On the XM-3000 it's down in front in the body - I don't know where it is on your scooter. Usually a dirty main fuse contact or defective fuse (looks unblown but won't pass current) will result in no 12 volt accessories, but you could have contacts or a fuse that are just marginal, acting more like a resister than an open circuit.

Spaceangel
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Joined: 07/15/2009
Points: 466
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

Is there a way for you to measure battery voltage as you ride with a real meter? If it can hang in there 1 60 some volts you might be good. But if you drop to 55 to 50 volt relatively fast then the battery pack is old and tired. Also if the pack is stored with out being charged first, it may also be weak. I don't know how Lithium packs do on leaving them stored in a half used state? I really try to charge them after all uses. As a matter of fact even my Gel Cell Green-savers I leave on charge 24/7 most of the time. The Vectrix is the only scooter I have that won't stay charged. After an hour or two and no more than three hours it turn off with 17 bars.

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ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

First I pulled the fuses off the DC-DC converter. The pink (4A) fuse fell apart. I thought it could be the problem. Then there was a burning smell from the dc converter. So, I opened the box. It is toasted as shown in the second picture,
photo.JPG
photo (3).JPG
photo (2).JPG
photo (1).JPG

I the second picture, I labeled wire 0, 1, and 2 as follow,

0 = Ground
1 = 0V (this connects to the blue fuse (15A) and is lost connection at the melted end
2 = 66.7V connect to the pink fuse (4A)

I assume #2 is input 66.7v, #1 is the output which suppose to be 12v. What I don't understand is why the 66v line has the smaller 4A fuse while the 12v has the 15A fuse. Should it be the other way around? I have no idea what could cause the dc-dc converter melted. Could it be the key was at the on position and stay on for a long time? According to the label, the part is made in Andover, MA. I wonder if I could get an equivalent replacement part in the US?

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

Here is a clearer picture of the melted part,
photo (4).JPG

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

I notice on the label it says,

Input: 48vDC Nom, 200w
Output: 12vDC, 150W

Should it be atleast 60V input?

marylandbob
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Joined: 06/22/2009
Points: 520
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

Input voltage anywhere from 36 to 72 volts is OK with your DC/DC converter! The smaller fuse goes on the higher voltage, because current is always LESS there. On the 12 volt side, actual current should NOT exceed 12.5 amperes, I would expect about 8 amps, with high beam headlight and brake lights ON. If you measure MORE than this, on the 12 volt side, that can be why the converter fails! (If you can repair the connections, and MEASURE the 12 volt amperage actually drawn, you might see if it is excessive)--Converter MIGHT still be GOOD!

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Robert M. Curry

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

The converter is dead. there is 66v at the in terminal but 0v at the out put. I guess it finally gave up. I found a similar part on ebay. but the seller said "This is a booster, not the regulated converter." His part number is vi-bn1-ev,

My part number is vi-2n1-cv,
photo (5).JPG
Wonder if they are compatible? What is the different between a booster and a converter in this case?

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

One of the images did not did not go through. Here is the part for sale,
photo (6).jpg

JasonTaylor
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Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

i think that part will work fine. he seems full of it. however i wouldn't give up on your old part just yet. take it apart. repair what is broke, etc. at least be sure it isn't a loose wire issue.

jason

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marylandbob
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Joined: 06/22/2009
Points: 520
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

I would try cleaning off the "RED WIRE" and its connection point, and then carefully re-soldering it and testing. It is very possible bthat the wire came loose under load, and the current tried to continue to flow thru the resulting ARC, generating the heat and discoloration. Carefully SCRAPE and sand the terminal, to expose clean, shiny metal before soldering.-If not skilled in this, get someone that is, to assist!

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Robert M. Curry

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

I am pretty sure the part is dead. After the last few tried, smoke came out of it. There was no votage or current at the out put terminal. The whole convert is in a solid stage (seal) so there is no way to see what is going on inside. I did a little research on part # vi-2n1-cv ($235) vs. vi-bn1-ev ($121). According to the manufacture Vecor data sheet,

vi-2n1-cv ($235)
VI-2xx family converters offer exceptional power density, efficiency, noise performance, reliability and ease of use

vi-bn1-ev ($121)
VI-Bxx family Booster modules provide a simple, cost-effective, off-the-shelf solution for higher power output requirements. One or more boosters may be used to create synchronous arrays capable of supplying several kilowatts of output power

I don't think I want to spend $235 for the Vicor "converter" and do not feel comfortable to get the "booster" to test it out. I am thinking to get a generic converter. Here are some options for me on ebay,

1. Golf Cart DCDC Converter Wide Input 36V - 72V to 12V 10A 120W Power Supply ($19) (may be from china)

2. 48v 60v 72v to 12V 20A motor GOLF cart ebike power large current converter 240w ($39) (from China)

3. Isolated DC DC CONVERTER Voltage Reducer Regulator 400W 72V to 12V 30A EV Bike ($125)

4. 72V to 12V 20A 240W DC to DC Voltage Step Down Converter Reducer ($79)

The original converter output for the 4000li is rated at 30A 150W (the fuse caps off at 15A). I figure any of the #2, 3, or 4 on the list above would do for me right? Thanks.

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

I ordered 2 converters since they are affordable. One is local so I should have it within a day or 2. The other one is more of what I should have which from China and I will get that one in more than 2 weeks.

Local converter: ASTEC / EMERSON 36/72 Volt to 12 volt 12.5 amp ($20)
7.JPG

China Converter: 48v 60v 72v to 12V 20A motor GOLF cart ebike power large current converter 240w ($30)
8.JPG

I will report back to let you know how it goes. Thanks for your supports.

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

Here is the update:

I got the "ASTEC / EMERSON 36/72 Volt to 12 volt 12.5 amp ($20)" first. It did not work so I had to return it. Instead of waiting for the other part to arrive, I bought a similar part locally,

Go kart Golf Cart Forklift 80V 72V 60V 48V 36V To 12V 20A DC Voltage Reducer ($90),
11.jpg

After installed the part, all lights an horn are working well. The minimum current at the output is about 5A for the break light because I have the kickstand down. After turned on all lights and even pressed the horn to max out the load I got about 13A. I had 13A on for a few minutes, the outside of the converter box got almost too hot to the touch. I hope it is normal. It looks like a lot of current goes through the confined box with no fan or ventilation. The yellow wire of the new converter is half the side (or even smaller) of the wire from the moped and I wonder the small wire would hold up. Overall the part look cheap compares to the original part but it works. I've got to say all of the wiring harness, connectors, fuse holder, horns, etc. in the 4000li are of high quality stuff. They are as good as electrical parts in my toyota rav4. Also here is a picture of the head light of my 4000li. They are putting out very bright lihgts,
photo_0.JPG

Now I think my battery is dying but I am going to open a new thread for that.

ezquimin
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Joined: 06/04/2012
Points: 21
Re: Lights, horns, turn signals fail 4 or 5 seconds after ...

Update: the converter was holding up after a five miles city ride with lights on for about 20 minutes. I think the original converter was melted because someone accidentally left the key in the on position with the lights on. Then the lights took a while to drain the battery through the converter. In addition, there was no air circulation because the car is not moving. As a result the convert melted and burned. I wonder if there is any safety built in to turn off the lights at a set time if motor is not running?

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