Recognize this scooter?
Anyone recognize this scooter? Says 50 mph for 2500 bucks. Looks pretty nice, bigger tires and a windshield greater than the XM-2000 at least.
That's mine. I sold two li-ion already to people in L.A. I have 2 people coming to look at the lead-acid one at home. Got 53mph heading to work today, according to speedometer. I was able to stay in front most of the traffic. Was slowed down by other cars. Nice to know I'm not the slowest. :-) It was more fun than expected. One of the guys in L.A. said he got 51mph.
Here is a pic when it was getting off the truck:
Are the li-ion's thundersky batteries?
Yes, thundersky. Both types of batteries will last much longer if you don't deep discharge them. Battery equalization is another issue. The lead acid battery is rated for 300 deep discharges, but I doubt it will go that long. Based on extrapolating from other battery information, in other words educated guessing, you can get 600+ charge cycles if you only discharge to 50% of capacity. Mine only discharged a quarter of capacity going to and from work, about 7.5 miles round trip.
Here is what it looks like when you lift the carton off:
so there is no battery equalization built into this scooter?
I have heard that its not needed for the li-ions, since they can handle being discharged and even left discharged (without need for immediate recharge) is that true?
Whats the warranty on these?
>I assume the 2500 is for the lead acid bike and the lith bikes are sold and went for more money.
Yes.
The lith batteries should have a battery management system that controls recharge and performs other functions, like shutting the pack down if the amp draw is beyond max or the voltage of a cell or the pack drops too low based on how the BMS was configured/designed.
Currently the charger is a separate unit from the controller. The controller shuts down the bike at low voltage.
>Did the lith bikes come with a balancing BMS ?
Nope. In approximately 3 months they may have a charger that charges individual cells for an additional large sum of money.
I don't have a solution to the equalization problem. Perhaps the separate charger is the best solution.
For next order of bikes I've asked the manufacturer to modify the bikes so that voltage is in tighter range to prolong life. See chart below.
This should prolong batteries, because over charging and discharging are less likely.
I have heard that its not needed for the li-ions, since they can handle being discharged and even left discharged (without need for immediate recharge) is that true?
Li-ion batteries do better without constant trickle charge. Unlike lead-acid they last longest when kept at 40% charge. Time will tell how much equalization is an issue. Perhaps other people in this forum know how important is equalization for li-ion. I've heard the rumor that they are self equalizing, but haven't seen evidence to back that up.
>Whats the warranty on these?
2 weeks satisfaction guarantee. 6 months for defective parts.
CONGRATULATIONS DAN!
You took the risk on importing these directly and it looks like it's paying off for you. Congrats - the more e-scoots on the market the better...
(and you were about 50 times quicker bringing this to market than EVTA ;-))
Keep on importing them !!! Give me a few months to get more money and I want one !! lol. How much are the LI-ION ones going for?
I love my EVT-168 but it is a bit slow :) They look great. Have you had any major problems with them at all?
*I can see me now flowing along with traffic not a care in the world *
Cant wait
Thanks John. Where was that post you made that talked about the typical stages of a scooter buyer? First they are very happy, then it goes down hill from there. Without history on this bike we should assume it applies, but hopefully it doesn't. I'm hoping EVTA puts out a really quality product.
As for problems there have been a few, and I suspect more will follow. Two of the bikes are reported slightly off center. The handle bars point slightly left while riding straight. I had a loose connection in mine, that I fixed. Lack of instructions and difficulty of installing the windshield. I listed the range as half of what the manufacturer listed. Looks like my guess is correct. There might be a brake or something causing friction causing the range to go down. I'll investigate further this weekend.
happy to see you got your scooter, Dan.!!
I was at the SF custom office all day yesterday to clear my scooter.
Going to pick all four of them up at the Oakland port after I post this message. yeehaa.
After months of research and waiting, I'm hoping these scooter comes to fruititon.
Though I don't hold high hopes for them.
I been riding a GreeneMotor demo scooter for the last month and the 1500watt is pretty dog slow.
(well, that's coming from an ex motorcycle racer. so TIFWIW)
Congrats again on taking delivery.
Gio
This is the scooter that I found while googling around that eventually led me to this forum. It is great looking and the specs are impressive.
Your specs list the range as 25 miles for both the lead acid and the lithium batteries, is this right?
We have come out the same style too.... speed 88km/H on real road testing.
Estimated price FOB China Usd1480/pc base on lead acid battery and Usd2080/pc based on Lithium battery.
Our professional production ability and quality control would make it more perfect.
What has been your real world testing of range? Can you get a bigger windshield on it? Some quality issues with your bike:
1. Your brake levers have different colors.
2. Rims have different colors.
3. No mud flaps
4. Handle bar plastic doesn't line up with steering column plastic.
Range around 110kms based on 50AH60V(20hr) silicon battery and 150kms based on 40AH60V(2hr) Lithium battery
Yes,this is the first prototype only .....performance on prototype is most of all.Other details step by step....
Normally we test half a year of prototype before put into bulk production.
But we have already 3 year bulk production experience on 1500W and 2500W.
>150kms based on 40AH60V(2hr) Lithium battery
At what speed?
So you are getting longer range from a 40ah battery than a 50ah battery?
I'm getting less than 20 miles at top speed. Range goes up considerably the slower you go. Wind resistance goes up substantially at higher speeds.
Deafscooter here What wrong on Assmebly not perfect assembly line ( I look at the scooter have not Good quailty Color, steering column )
need => Both Front & rear mud flaps Behind the battery & wheels
need good quailty welding to strong ( not cheap China -> like x trems scooter )
Craig Suggust Chen do install HID lamps , AGM batteries packs ( not silicon )
and better hardware ( AN type bolts, Nuts , etc ) and better strong parts on it
Thank you,
Craig Uyeda
Deafscooter
here is pix the fix up the scooter before sold to USA ( deafscooter will purchase )
Here in PA they would have to be registered as Motorcycles - meaning title, registration and insurance. The insurance is cheap. The one-time title fee and sales tax is the biggest expense. But at least, with license plates, you will be is treated as a "legitimate" motor vehicle. If it is 5 hp or less and an "automatic transmission" you don't need a motorcycle license, so that's a big break.
So, do the the e-funs have a MVSS certification plate and an embossed VIN plate on them? Are they on the federal certification database? Can I get a MCO? I will need all of these to use one in Pennsylvania.
As far as the styling - I agree; that dysfunctional "windshield" and the odd placement of the instrument panel is UGLY. The Chinese seem to have a sense of aesthetics that comes across as tacky and even comical to western eyes. The "alien" appearance (in the sense of the sci-fi movie) of the e-max is my single greatest dislike - and probably the source of a lot of the spontaneous laughter I hear as I ride by...
Craig wrote:
and better hardware ( AN type bolts, Nuts , etc )
Craig,
I agree that Chinese fastener quality can be appallingly bad, but AN hardware would be a bit overkill unless you are an aircraft mechanic and have a lot of it laying around.
Grade 8.8 or SAE Grade 5 should be fine. Visible bolts need to be chrome plated of course.
Deafscooter,
You have a good eye for detail. Also I noticed that Dans had a at least cosmetic enhancement over the rear suspension that ads to the curb appeal if nothing else. The front and rear fenders need to be there as well as the rear view mirrors.
Personally I really like the style of this scooter, even if the windshield is just a styling accent. The scooter is not the feminine type that some "retro" styles are, this style is one that a man could be seen on and not worry who saw him.
Thank you,Uyeda.
As I mentioned,this is a prototype just for performance testing.
In bulk production,we will improve as your suggestion and use stainless fastener as ZAPINO.
Dan,the 50AH silicon battery is based on 20hour rate,so its actual capacity is less than 40AH lithium battery at 2 hour rate. And much heavier than lithium,of course less range.
The longest range is test at 20mph economical speed.almost no brake,flat road and no wind....25 degree temperature.
Our professional production ability and quality control would make it more perfect.
Hmmm Shouldn't this post be in another section where one parades ones new product? I may be wrong but I thought so, seeing as you're promoting your wares.
WOULD is an amazing word, and ideally should be underlined by a caveat such as 'This is a forward-looking statement etc etc' because as it stands you don't have a finished product, do you? when will this version be dot approved or EU ready? You've just posted details of a prototype, according to your defence of some glaring visual anomalies pointed out by DanCar. And like another post of mine regarding your 4000w atvs, they were shipped in prototype mode also, but were not supposed to be prototypes were they? Where exactly is the QC role in all of that then?
As I've stated before, and I imagine the rest of the board would agree, please play the ball not the player. By all means tout your product, but don't continue to analyse the eFun to death; when it is obvious to any poster that there's old and bad blood there.
Personally, once DanCar pointed out his observations, it actually beggars belief that you would 1) assemble a bike from spare pieces and 2. photograph it and post it to an international site for peers to view? Your XM 2000 is a good little bike but its the small details that DO matter. This is not 1960, its 2007. People want reliable, homogenuous products and also decent websites. efun's website, while it won't set the world on fire, is eons ahead of anything from th Erato camp. So also is their communication. As can also be said for emax, EVT, and IO Scooter. As I am in danger of playing the player and not the ball, I merely ask that particular manufacturers refrain from throwing stones (read the many posts where inferences were made) when they are in skyscraper-sized glasshouses.
Got something great to sell, prove it! We all want to eventually buy electric vehicles that work (so we can use them??), not just talk about them and complain.
Great comments and I hope the manufacturers and importers on here take them seriously.
You can sell "toys" of poor quality to kids with not much of a problem (unless of course you use lead paint!). Nobody expects those toy scoots to last that long anyway. However, when you are marketing to older teens and the adult market you will vastly improve your chances of any longterm business success by making a quality product which has been well designed and tested. You say it costs more money? I'd agree....but then the winners in this market figure out how to keep costs down but balanced with an acceptable level of quality. It's not rocket science!
I believe the US market is going to explode over the next few years into mainstream acceptance and purchase of various electric vehicles...considering what gasoline prices are doing and will continue to do. I hear it everyday...and see people talking about alternatives...the kind of people who would have never before even considered them. Therefore, the smart entreprenuers who enter the market (especially in the niche of affordable E-transportation like scooters, ebikes, etc.) and make a quality product at that affordable price will not only dominate the market but be in a position to maintain a longterm successful business. Those that do it on the fly and market "junk" will perhaps make a few bucks but nothing that will give them longterm business success and large, sustainable profits.
Just my .02 worth here...
Gushar
Hi everyone. As an end user of the fun-ev 3000 watt LIfePo4 scooter I will be sharing my experiences. I've been using the bike to commute to work for two days now. I live in the Los Angeles, CA area. I am 6'3" and 200 pounds in motorcycle gear. My wife says I look cool on the bike, but she has a tendency to be overly kind. Objectively speaking, I think I may look a little big for the bike. Later, I'll post a picture of me operating the scooter. I have a fairly level 18-mile one-way commute. The posted speed limits range from 35-45 mph so I am able to keep up with traffic. There are several traffic lights and stop signs along the way. So it takes me about 40 minutes to complete my trip. My top speed on level terrain measures 53 mph. After arriving to work I plug in and it takes less than 3 hours to recharge. A full recharge normally takes 8 hours with these batteries. This means that even after 18 miles, I still have at least 5/8 remaining on the batteries. The question will be, "Does the power substantially taper off as I near the end of the bikes effective range?" When I have the time and a vehicle to follow me, I will do a 'max-range' test under normal operating conditions. It would also be interesting to know if running with the full dual headlights or just using the small front light would materially affect the range.
In CA this vehicle is classified as a "motorized cyle." It falls into the same category as motorcycles less than 150cc. A freeway-legal bike must be a minimum of 250cc. This scooter does requires a "motor cycle" endorsement on the Driver's License. I have an M1 classification which allows me to drive any motorcycle. Because of the scooter's max speed capablity, I appreciate my "real motorcycle" experience. One could take the scooter and easily pass the DMV test for an automatic, smaller bike. But I would recommend taking a CHP/DMV-approved motorcycle course that upon completion gives you the fully motorcycle endorsed license and more importantly, the safety and motorcycle-handling instruction.
I tried to register the scooter yesterday with the CA DMV. The inspector and I could only see one VIN plate rivetted to the battery box. He wanted to see an ID on the "engine" (which is a rear wheel hub motor) as well. This means I have to go to a Calif. HWY Patrol inspection office where they will probably "tag" the "engine" to match the VIN. They use this same process when a "salvaged" vehicle is resurrected and maybe equipped with a different engine. CHP will also have to verify that the scooter is street legal. I'll keep you posted regarding this process. In the meantime, it's great to be part of the solution and to be saving $4 per day in gas consumption!
Okay, I have a couple of questions and I think a few have already been posed and never answered.
1.) The range on both the lead-acid model and the Lithium model are listed as identical. This doesn't make any sense to me. What is the range for each at top speed?
2.) Are these bikes DOT approved? No mirrors = no way.
With regard to the styling I would have to agree with usatracy that this is not a scooter but in fact a motorcycle. The body design is more or less a mimic of the Honda Reflex motorcycle.
**The Z-20's are supposed to hit the water tomorrow...
Roger,
I'm going to disagree with you on your characterization of this bike as a motorized cycle. Granted I am not saying that you didn't go through what you said you went through at the DMV, but this is California law with respect to motorcycles:
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Motorcycle
400. (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two of which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
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As far as registration is concerned, see this:
Form completion—The vehicle verification is always completed on the Verification of Vehicle section of the Application for Title or Registration (REG 343).
The serial number on the electric motor will be used for an electric motorcycle’s engine number.
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I'll ask the question for you Roger, hey EV people, where's the serial number on the electric engine located?
DonC - With regard to question 2 and the mirrors reference I'm thinking you might have been confused. There are two bikes shown above - one from DanCar and being ridden by roger. And a "prototype" pictured by MountainChdn. The bike that this thread started by discussing (and the bike that DanCar sold to roger) is pictured about half way down by DanC. It has mirrors. The bike pictured by MountainChen doesn't really pertain to this post - just ignore it.
DanCar - I agree with DonC's #1 question. Please can you clarify the expected difference in range and speed between the lead acide and the lithium models?
Roger - thanks for the info. I look forward to hearing and seeing more. If you do get those pics you might want to start another thread or a blog. Just a thought as this thread is getting a little busy.
Good luck to all those waiting for a Z-20 !
One more thing...
EVTA has the Z-20 listed in a database at Geico as a motorcycle, not a scooter. I speculate that there is a listing in CA DMV that characterizes it the same way. I only bring this up as a recommendation to the EV-Fun people because I never would have bought the Z-20 unless I knew I could both register and insure it. I hope that the people who want to buy your bike can do that. I am an interested buyer myself and until I can get more info I'm going to hold on to my dollars.
Wow, I'm surprised at that news! Can't wait to sell my lead and get li-ion. So Roger, what do you think I should list the range as? What was your average speed? We know the range goes up significantly when not traveling at top speed. Did you hit a lot of stop lights? Part of my pessimism was that I didn't think a 40ah battery would get longer range than a 50ah battery. Scratch that idea.
I took a guess and updated the li-ion range spec to:
Max range: 40 miles at 40 mph, 35 miles at 45 mph, 25 miles at top speed.
Thanks,
Daniel
Doncristobal,
In California, any motor cycle that is not capable of freeway speeds is considered a motor driven cycle, and not allowed on the freeway due to safety issues.
USATracy,
I did not intend to offend, but I do think my view is more widely held by most guys you would meet on the street.
Cool. they look like nice scooters. Especially since i have an MX-2000 now and im looking for something with better battery technology.
How long are those lead acids likely to last?