Vectrix range

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ratatouille
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Joined: 04/14/2007
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Hello,

Mik (thank you again for your reports and your enthusiasm :)) has reported a much lower range than expected at 40km/h

I'm thinking for a while to the Vectrix too but i'm not sure it can make me go to work and back home without recharging at work (what i can't do anyway).

I have 33 miles return including 26 miles of highway which is not totally flat. The speed limits are between 70km/h and 110km/h and i would not feel comfortable riding slower so i need the full power of the Vectrix.

Do you thing the Vectrix could make it ?

Thank you,

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Jean-François

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Mik
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Re: Vectrix range

Hi Jean-Francois,

my Vectrix hardly ever gets to 55km total under normal mixed driving conditions- and that's without highway stretches, all to a max of 80km/h.

No chance it would get me to your workplace and back in it's current condition.

I still hope the Vectrix specs were not all advertising hype, and that there is something wrong with my Vectrix that can be rectified; the first service is due and might detect a fault, but it's 2000km to the dealer....

My Vectrix has once limped home and I had to push up the driveway after 38.4km in rainy conditions, accelerating full bore each time at the lights trying to get out of the rain soon and not using regen braking to keep the disks dry for emergency braking.

Usually I have about 26km range left after driving 38km to work and back; for my Vectrix that means about 5-7 km left before it drops to zero range and becomes unsafe to drive due to crawling along at walking speed when it goes uphill the slightest bit.

It might all be due to my height and weight; Vectrix might have used the skinniest and shortest jockey they could hide behind that windshield for their range testing, and on a polished wooden floor in a windless indoor velodrome or such thing!

With chains, protective clothing and everything else thats not original part of the Vectrix I put 111kg "Nutzlast" onto it. During the 40km/h test drive it was only 105kg, though.

And I have a rather large helmet (Nolan N102), that sticks out into the wind because I am 187cm tall.

I have started to ride chopper-style, probably looks really stupid, but is out of the wind, quieter and I want to know if it improves the range!

If the Vectrix fuel cell version comes along that might be an option for you if it recharges sufficiently during your work day.

If you could recharge at work it would be feasible, too. Have a look around for power points, they are everywhere...

Cheers,

Mr Mik

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ratatouille
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Re: Vectrix range

Hi Mik,

I asked for installing an electric outlet in the car park of my firm and they refused . I proposed to pay the electric consumption too.
The hotel that is near my job place refused too.

As you do, i hope there is something to be fixed to retrieve the expected range.

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Jean-François

duca
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Joined: 02/07/2008
Points: 87
Re: Vectrix range

ratatouille wrote:

Hi Mik,

I asked for installing an electric outlet in the car park of my firm and they refused . I proposed to pay the electric consumption too.
The hotel that is near my job place refused too.

As you do, i hope there is something to be fixed to retrieve the expected range.

Where do you live Jean François? maybe you could ask the Mayor's office if they are interested in subsiding electric mobility by installing a plug near where you need it: green sells politically nowadays ;)

ratatouille
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Re: Vectrix range

hi duca,

i live in France.
You're right, i called the Mayor's office long time ago but they hadn't been very cooperative.
Next month, there is the new Mayor elections so i should ask again.

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Jean-François

Mik
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Re: Vectrix range

The business I work for has just decided (in an executive committee meeting) against my application to use the existing power point at a dedicated bike parking spot!
Apparently afraid they might set a precedent. Which is exactly what they should do.

I am going to appeal.

Mr. Mik

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duca
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Re: Vectrix range

Look, when I talked to the human ressources of my company I expected to run against a wall, since it is a quite big company where the personnel managemente is quite "old fashion".
Surprisingly enough, they agreed on letting me test the scooter and then I submitted the calculation of how how much I might have costed to the company by recharging. They eventually decided to take my case as a pilot project so they neither charge me for the electricity I consume (which of course I would be willing to bear).
Maybe you could calculate to them how much you would cost to them and they would see how lauhghable it is.
Look, I estimated to them a full charge from zero (which rarely occurs) to be som 4 to 4,5 kW/h. The kW/h costs here in Rome 14€ cents which means some 11€ (5 working days per 4 weeks) at the most, more likely some 7 to 9€. Now I see from your experiments that I have underestimated some the consumption, anyway they saw that they save money in comparaison to the subside they give to the emploiees for the public transport season ticket. The only condition they posed is to use an interlocked plug of industrial standard, so I did an adaptor which was "approved" by the maintenance service...
Maybe you could do the same calculation to these people: If they would realize that by taking a cost of 10€ per month they give a wage rise of some 100€/months to their emploees in therms of fuel cost savings, thus avoiding requests of wage rises... ;)

Good luck

There is nothng more powerful than an idea which has become ripe :)

Regards

PJD
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Re: Vectrix range

My employer allows me to charge my scooter (not a Vectrix) via an extension cord running under a back door (an outdoor outlet is also available). The scooter is parked right next to the door where it doesn't block fire egress. There were no questions asked because employees are already allowed to have small appliances in their offices or cubicles - including small heaters and toaster ovens - i.e. ones of greater power consumption than my charger.

It might help that my employer is the US government - and prone to much more reasonableness with regard to employee affairs than the private sector.

Mik
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Re: Vectrix range

duca wrote:

There is nothng more powerful than an idea which has become ripe :)

Regards

And ripe it is, indeed!

The refusal to let me charge flies in the face of their own policies, the state and federal government intentions, common sense etc.

But it's a slow moving organization; just a matter of doing a bit of slalom around some dinosaurs; it's going to happen.

Mr. Mik

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Mik
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Re: Vectrix range

Quote:

mccartn wrote in a pm:

Hi Mik
I live in Ireland and drive a Kasea. I am currently considering buying a vectrix.
I drive 16 miles to work and have a charge point at work so no issue there.
However
I also want to use this a few nights a week to drive 10 miles after work and then drive home 16 miles after a 2 hr charge on these nights.
Do you think that the Vectrix will meet my requirments?
Realisticlly driving at 40mph what is the range of the bike. My drive is reasonably flat
Look forward to hearing from you as you seem to be a guru on these bikes.
what range does a 2 hr charge add to the bike?
Look forward to hearing from you

Sorry, not a Guru, just learning lots and doing it in public.

Gotta "keep the bastards honest.."

The range problems of my Vectrix are largely due to the very hilly terrain here, I believe.

I believe you could possibly travel the entire 67.2km at 64km/h on flat ground, unless you are very heavy and there is a lot of stop-and-go. But that's just a guess.

If you don't go faster than 64km/h and it is reasonably flat, then you could most likely get to work and back (51km) even without recharging at work, and you could definitely skip the charging for two hours in the evening if it is any trouble (and if you have recharged at work).
41.6km on "reasonably flat" ground at 64km/h is very easy for a Vectrix, once the battery is conditioned.
I regularly travel 38km at high speeds with many hills and 111kg total pay-load, and there is some left in the battery at the end.

In hilly terrain with 110kg pay-load I can attest my Vectrix a range of 45km going 50% at 80km/h, 30% at 70km/h and 20% at 60km/h; and half of the distance with moderate stop-and-go conditions.
After that it would probably still limp along on the flat for quite a distance, but it cannot make any moderate hills at more than walking speed, and steep hills are out.

Recharging for 2 hours will replenish about 60% of the use-able charge on my Vectrix, this might be more under cooler conditions, time will tell.

After driving 16km and then recharging for 2 hours your battery would be full again, provided you started with a full battery.

I don't know yet how far a Vectrix goes on flat ground. Once I have more charging options I'll tackle that question.

Mr. Mik

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andrew
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Re: Vectrix range

Mik, that seems interesting for me to hear that a vectrix will crawl. Does it have a controller low-voltage cut out? This is usually necessary to not damage batteries. When the batteries are drained very low than a moderate imbalance could reverse-charging a cell. I don't know what kind of balancing system they may have to mitigate this, but I wouldn't push it unless the manual says specifically that it is ok to ride it until it won't move anymore.

Mik
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Re: Vectrix range

andrew wrote:

Mik, that seems interesting for me to hear that a vectrix will crawl. Does it have a controller low-voltage cut out?

Yes, but the BMS gradually reduces the available power instead of just cutting it off.
When it is so low it will hardly move any more the battery power still shows as somewhere around 115-120V when charging begins.

All electronics and fans still run completely unaffected when the engine is almost completely starved of energy.

At least that's what it looks like, I can only go by what the instruments display.

Mr. Mik

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mccartn
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Joined: 02/22/2008
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Re: Vectrix range

Thanks for your Detailed reply.
I think I'll invest in the unit. FYI I have installed a Windturbine and PV at home to charge up the bike. So it will be realy emmisions free.
I'll keep this forum posted on developments

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MCCARTN

Mik
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Re: Vectrix range

mccartn wrote:

Thanks for your Detailed reply.
I think I'll invest in the unit. FYI I have installed a Windturbine and PV at home to charge up the bike. So it will be realy emmisions free.
I'll keep this forum posted on developments

Mine is already totally emission free, since 2 days now. Not the tiniest emission whatsoever!

Mr. Mik

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duca
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Re: Vectrix range

Mik! I'm so sorry about your troubles with the Vectrix scooter!

The fact of you being 2 thousand km away from the nearest assistance point doesn't help either, I guess.
Rumor has it, that there should be a 200Amps fuse somewhere along the circuit which sometimes doesn't hold what it promises. A friend of mine who had a Vectrix on test ride for a couple of days had this problem: all of a sudden the Vectrix went off, totally and with no warning, simply dead. Don't know if it is what you had, but if it is, it's actually no real big issue from a production point of wiew, just a case of supplier's "education"...

I for myself am prepared to take in account for some "theeting problems" (after all, we Italians were abused for decades by Fiat in this respect :) ) but I do hope that they are responsive and cooperative to the widest extent with customers experiencing problems.

Good luck and keep us informed :)

Regards

Luigi

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