XB-600 questions

David, if you can charge at work, the XB-600 would probably be a good fit for your needs. If you can't, you should be aware that with any bike with lead-acid batteries, the batteries won't last as long if you leave them half drained every day for 8 hours or more. I think the XB-600 is spec'd to be able to climb a 20-degree slope, and I would be a little skeptical about that specification, especially when the batteries are partially drained and when you have a headwind. So if your hill approaches 20 degrees or more, this bike might not work for you. Pedalling helps on very steep hills.

If you are worried about the California electric bike laws, the XB-600 should be fine, even with the controller shunt and 60v mods. Just be aware that after you make these two mods, the range on your scooter might not make it the 16 miles roundtrip to and from your office. In fact, it might not make it 8 miles one way if you are heavy handed with the throttle and the hills are very steep.

But most likely, the XB-600 is a good choice for your commute, especially if you can charge at work. Other solutions, particularly ones that use battery technologies better able to withstand being able to be left partially discharged for 8 hours or more every day, would be much more expensive than the XB-600.

My commute is somewhere around 8.5 miles each way. I only charge it overnight at home but will probably start charging it at work as well. I am only getting a top speed of 18mph on level ground off a fresh charge. On the way home I get 16-17mph. On freeway overpasses I slow down to a top speed of 10mph. All these speeds are from my GPS and not the overly optimistic speedometer. 20 downhill on my GPS shows 25mph on the speedo. I don;t think this bike is capable of 30mph even with the mods and a light rider.

Hi David, I live in Penasquitos. Bought the XB-500 as a neighborhood commute vehicle to transport my son to and from school and go to the local shopping center on Black Mtn Rd. The 6 times I've rode my XB-500 I've loved it. Check out that thread on the XB-500 controller and you'll get an idea of what I've gone through in the past 3+ weeks. It wasn't until it died that I discovered horror story after horror story on X-treme's customer service (which unfortunately has been my experience as well).

That being said, I do believe my bike (scooter) is an anomaly but a complete factory defect. I investigated (I thought) fairly thoroughly before buying it. Many who took the time to contact me love theirs and have had no problems. FYI, the delivery company is off Miramar Road so if you can go pick it up you'll save $50.

The ride: fantastic by myself. A bit slower with my son on as well, bringing the total weight to about 240 lb., but we were able to cruise at 20 mph on straightaways just fine. I had been using the pedals to assist up a couple of hills but I intend to keep the chain off and remove the pedals because they've been nothing but hassles (if I ever get this thing fixed, that is). Worst-case scenario on a hill, you get off the bike and use the throttle to walk-assist to where you can get back on again.

This has been a great forum. I've learned a lot!

David-

I've owned the xb600 for almost a year...riding daily. I really like it. The only problem (other than a flat tube) I've had was just last week the keyswitch broke/wore out and I had to replace it. I got very good customer service from x-treme as I did when I had a flat (ran over a staple in the road). Again, they gave me very good customer service. You might see my other post about the FACT that despite some that complain about their customer service...I get excellent service from them!

Ok now to the hill climbing ability. I'm in Florida so I don't have any "long" hills or any really "steep" ones to climb. I do ride up a few hills here from time to time and while the speed is slow 14-16mph up hills...it always gets me up them. The range of which I tested is in fact about 30 miles. I checked it with a very accurate bike computer and I got 29.3 as I recall and was still able to crawl into my driveway under power. Now, that's not something you want to really do...on any electric...run the batteries all the way down. It will severely shorten battery life. Recommendations are always to try and not discharge them more than 50% if you want them to last. I've also read however that running them past that once and awhile doesn't really cause any less battery life. Of course I've gotten all my info from here...but there are folks here who really are quite knowledgeable on batts, charging, etc. I trust their knowledge and opinions quite often...and it has been a big help. Maybe one of them will respond who rides the XB600 up alot of steep, long, hills. I'd say from my experience with the small hills around here...that you may be pushing your luck either severely reducing the range from the hill climbs...or maybe even having a problem with the climbing for a long distance. Now, I have never had the pedals on mine...and took the chain off the first day. I just don't need either. It runs like a regular "scooter" without them...even on hill climbing...slow...but dependable. And, I personally think it would be hard to pedal the thing especially where they have the pedals located. But that having been said, you might be able to assist with the pedals and not run into any hill climbing problems. Again, I encourage anyone here that knows more about climbing long steep hills to chime in and provide more info in this regard.

Last, but not least and with no disrespect to Aztecfembone...who I helped as best I could with her XB500 problems (alot different than the XB600)....but I think from what she initially wrote here that she got "water" into some of the electrical parts of her scoot and caused a short that burned out her controller and blew a fuse. I mean as a rule I don't ride on a "wet road" as she indicated she did...and certainly don't ride in the rain. I carry a plastic cover many times just in case it starts to rain and I have no place to get under cover...so I can just cover the scoot and wait for the rain to stop. And you can be sure I'd try as well to wait for most if not all of the water to dry off the roadway. People don't seem to understand just how much "water" you can throw up into the scoot even at a slow speed, no rain, but a wet road from a rain. There's some fairly good panels underneath to deflect trash and water being thrown up into the electrics...but with the positioning of many of the wiring/components it might be "poor" protection at best. And none of the xb models have even "water resistant" plugs, etc. must less "waterproof!" I think some of the newer, more expensive and powerful ones are now coming with some water resistant plugs, controller, etc. But I don't think the x-treme line or any other e scoots are very well designed and protected against moisture, etc.

That's as much info as I can give you...from my experience. Hope it helps.

Gushar

Gushar, no offense taken. I agree with your assessment. The introduction of water compounded an already-present manufacturing defect in that freewheel hub/sprocket and the alignment of the chain. I won't ever be riding it on wet roads again (I'll take the sidewalk if I need to go around a puddle!) and it's stored in my garage so I hope to never need further water protection! :)

David, this site has been invaluable. I do think my problem is an anomaly and I'd have to say I'd even still recommend my bike (wishing though that I'd have gotten the 600). And in considering negative feedback about X-treme, the percentage of complaints is really very small compared to the number of products they sell. I'm just really frustrated at this point so you shouldn't take my case as a typical example.

Glad...but Aztec...I still wonder if it was the "resistance" created when the wheel was not turning well like you've described...or rather like I stated that water just got into something "electrical" and shorted it. I mean water drops can be thrown up into the electrical stuff, wires, etc...and then it can still run fine until you shut it off, stop, etc. Then a single drop of water might run down a wire and into a plug or something else and create a short to the metal frame...and suddenly when you turn the key switch on again and power goes everywhere...it would blow fuses or burn stuff out if it's shorted that way. And that's what your's did. I just find it hard to believe that "some" resistance on the wheel blew the controller and a fuse. I guess it could...

And again, I just report on xtreme based on my own experiences with them. But, I do wonder regardless whether alot of folks can "appreciate" just the magnitude of what they have to do to get these scoots and parts here...and the hassles they can have trying to help resolve issues.

Gushar

www.Basestationzero.com Talk to ArcticFox

www.Basestationzero.com Talk to ArcticFox

I second that. :)

Hi, I just bought a pre owned xb 600 and I'm wondering why the charging light hasn't turned green, for its been 8 hours and the scooter already had a charge from the previous owner.

Maybe I missed something? But should I just let it go till it turns green, or is that safe?

Should be safe as long as the batteries are not getting hot. If they are cool, I'd leave the charger plugged in a while longer. Times like this are when it is helpful to have an inexpensive Radio Shack voltmeter.

What if the batterys felt a little warm? I ordered a new charger from Xtream, hopefully this solves it. But if the batterys were a little warm, is any harm done?

Probably no harm done unless the batteries spew acid or look like they are melting. Batteries get a little warm when they charge, but can go into thermal runaway and things can get messy. Your charger still might be fine. It is probably good to have a spare charger, but it is still worthwhile to have an inexpensive voltmeter.

Thanks a lot, hope my new charger will solve things. It just seems this one can't seem to sense if the battery is charged or not. Or is that the controllers fault?

That would be the charger or the batteries, not the controller.

Thanks again. I'm a newbie and hope to work my way around future problems. But I have one more question. Do I really have to charge it after every use, or can it wait till I'm done for the day? I have to ride my xb 600 to work and won't be able to charge it while working.

Ok...here's some advice on the battery/charger issue. I own the xb600 so I'm very familiar. The green light should come on...however, if the charge was very low it will take about 6-7 hours to fully charge and the light to come on. Don't make the assumption I did when I first got my xb600. There are two lights on the charger. One is only an indicator that the charger is plugged into power. It stays red regardless as long as the charger is plugged in. The other light is the charge indicator. It starts out red and then turns green when fully charged. There is a small label there to indicate which light is which...and mine had it...but I wasn't paying attention. For some reason I assumed both lights had to go green...and of course only one did!!! But, then I looked a bit closer and realized one was just a "power" light and the other was the actual charging light. DUH!:-)

Now, as I recall, there's about 54 total volts on the pack when the batteries are fully charged. If you check the voltage...easy to do just put the probes (+ and -) on the two flat blades where the charger plugs in. Don't use the round (ground) pin...just one probe to each side by side flat blade contact. Then, read the voltage. If you don't have at least over 50 volts you aren't even close to full charge. Reading the voltage is about the most accurate way to determine battery status. If you don't have a voltage meter...get one. They're cheap. If you don't know how to use it...LEARN! It will always be very helpful to you in numerous instances.

To the second question...leaving those batteries in a discharged state all day will shorten the life....and probably drastically. I might ride 2 miles...then go do something else...and if I'm going to ride it again within an hour or so...I don't charge it. However, if it's going to be more than an hour, or especially longer, then I charge it. After one year I cannot really tell that the batteries are any less than they were when it was brand new! So, I must be doing something right. Also, only once did I ride the total range, 30 miles, and bring those batteries to deep discharge. I just wanted to test the range. Doing that will ruin the batteries real quick...as so the real "experts" on here say. Also, I rarely if ever ride over 10-12 miles continuously without charging...and so I never bring those batteries to over 50% discharge...before charging again. Over 50% discharge on a regular basis shortens the life much more too...again, according to the battery gurus on here. And, I believe them!...not just on their word but the research and my real life experience confirms that.

Last, enjoy your xb600! It's a great scoot for the money!

Gushar

Thanks alot, your very helpful Gushar. I have another question though lol. When I do eventually have to replace the tires on my xb 600, is that an easy task? And is there anything I have to disconnect on the rear wheel besides taking it off the assembly?

Thanks, Jon

You will need larger, scooter-size tire irons to change the tire. The little plastic things used to change a bicycle tire won't work. You do not disconnect any cables when changing the rear tire, but there is a chain that has to be removed and reinstalled. Also, be careful putting the rear wheel back on because, as AztecFemBone found out the hard way, if the wheel is not installed correctly and tight, the axle could spin, breaking the electrical cable to the motor.

Also, be careful putting the rear wheel back on because, as AztecFemBone found out the hard way, if the wheel is not installed correctly and tight, the axle could spin, breaking the electrical cable to the motor.

Nail. Head. That freewheel hub/sprocket jam didn't help anything but when I get that new wheel, I'm going have my husband give everything an extra man-strength tightening on just in case. :)

Link to said "larger, scooter-size tire iron"?

Thanks, I'll think of that in the future

Thanks alot, your very helpful Gushar. I have another question though lol. When I do eventually have to replace the tires on my xb 600, is that an easy task? And is there anything I have to disconnect on the rear wheel besides taking it off the assembly?

Thanks, Jon

At some point, I'm going to photo detail step-by-step instructions on how to do just that! I think the main thing to keep in mind is to be extremely careful with the hub motor wire (which isn't that difficult). Gushar, Boca, or someone else can pick up from there on the actual changing of the tire.

yeah, I've looked at the hub motor wire and it looks a little flimsy, so when the time comes I'll take good care of it. lol

Link to said "larger, scooter-size tire iron"?

http://www.scootertherapy.com/tirechangepage.html

Hot diggity dog! You da man!

Well...I guess it's time for me to chime in here since I've taken the rear tire/wheel off the xb600 to change a tube. First, you don't need a heavy duty tire iron as someone indicated. It's really not any more difficult than taking a bicycle tire off the rim. I used a couple of flat blade screw drivers...and "yes" those plastic pry bars made for bicycles! It was easy. This is not a motorcycle wheel you're changing the tire on...a bit more than a bicycle maybe...but not a big deal.

As far as taking the wheel/tire off. First, here's a quick lesson on changing a tube on the rear. I'm going from memory without looking at my scoot so I'll try not to leave anything out. First, you don't want to undo the large nuts on the axle until you mark...with tape or felt pen or something the position of where the axle is on each side. This way you'll get that wheel back just like it was...straight from side to side...and not to far forward or back. That's important. You can just "trace" around the nut or something making an outline...or put a piece of tape at the front of the frame where the nut is so you can slide it back into that position when you put it back on. You also need to cut the wire ties holding the cable going into the wheel. But, just a couple that are on the swingarm...just enough so you're not putting stress on the cable when you move the wheel/axle back a bit to clear the frame. You should be able to get enough slack to do this with just a couple of them cut. Now, you could cut all of them and follow the cable to wherever it plugs into the controller connection wire? etc unplugging it completely...but that's going to alot of trouble that is really unnecessary...at least for changing a tube. You'll also need to release the brake cable to the rear brake. That's pretty simple. Just unscrew the adjustor on the end and you should have no problem removing it...just remember how it went on. Once you have the cable to the brake disconnected and the axle nuts loosened...etc...you can slide the wheel back out of the swingarm...just barely far enough to get past the end. This is only necessary to be able to get the new tube/tire by and around the axle. If you know how to pull one side of the tire off of a bicycle rim, etc. then it's the same here. Once you get one side of the tire over the rim...you can pull out the old tube, slide in the new one pulling the valve stem into position...and then put the side of the tire back over the rim. Slide the wheel/axle back up into position and align with the marks for correct side to side location...and tighten the nuts back up. Reconnect the brake cable,etc. Last, put some new wire ties back just like the ones were that you cut. Air the tire up. That's it. Point here is that this is no different than changing the tube on a bicycle tire. It's just you have a "cable" going into the wheel and you just don't want to stress or twist this cable. You can do this tube changing with the wheel in an upright position. You just have to be careful and not pull put stress on the cable/wire going into the axle. The only thing you have to accomplish here to do this is get the axle clear of the rear of the swingarm...just far enough to get a tube...or even a tire and tube BY THE AXLE. Once that is accomplished you can do this with the axle sitting in position on the swingarm. Geez...you're not changing a car tire here. And a last tip which actually is the first thing to do...have the scoot up on the center stand and wieghted toward the front so the rear tire is off the ground. That is absolutely necessary for the rear.

The front should be even easier since there is no electrical cable going to it. You inevitably had to put it on since they are shipped with the front wheel, brake drum assembly "hanging" off of the scoot. Once you disconnect the brake cable...attached like the back brake cable is...then you should be able to remove it completely and work on it...just like a simple bike tire change. No big deal.

Well, I hope this helps. Just remember folks if you have never changed a bicycle tire/tube...you'll need to learn before you can do this...or otherwise get some help from someone who has!

Gushar

Oh...and here's a couple of other tips, etc. I just remembered...

You will need to take off the plastic covers over the swingarm on each side of the scoot...to easily get to the axle nuts, etc.

Also, if you just want to patch the tube...as I did first when I had a flat about a mile from my house...and not wanting to push the thing all the way home...that's possible in minutes without removing the wheel period! Just have to take off the plastic cover on the side opposite the axle cable/wire so you can get at the wheel easier. Deflate the tube/tire completely (removing the valve stem as always to do this) and then simply pull the side of the tire over the rim...with whatever small tools (flat blade screwdrivers, etc.) you use to accomplish this...as with a bicycle tire. Once you do that just pull the tube out of the tire. Now the tube is just hanging there around the axle...but outside the tire. There's room enough to inflate it a bit (hand pump, etc.) to find the hole. Once you locate the hole...deflate the tube again...and just pull it down enough to rest that part of it on something so you can score it and put the glue on...and then the patch, etc. Just like patching any tube. It's just you did all of that with it still around the axle hanging down. Then put the tube back into the tire, with valve stem in correct position through the wheel...and then slip, pry that side of the tire back on. Air up...and be on your way! It took me about 15 minutes to do this by the side of the street...with nothing but one flat blade screw driver (one in the tool kit) and a tire patch kit...and small hand pump. Then I rode on home...ordered a new tube...and rode on with the patched tube until I got the new tube. I just decided I didn't want to ride with a patched tube.

Gushar

I did find it pretty easy to clip all the cable ties and follow the hub motor wires to its connector on the left side of the bike (assuming the same configuration as the XB-600). All you gotta do it remove the seat, two nuts at the seat lock and two screws in the bottom of the seat bucket.

My tips: to ensure that I put everything back where it belongs, I've photodocumented everything I've unscrewed, clipped, or moved, especially noting which wire connects to which wire, so when I'm done I can put it all back together again. Also, screws that I've removed I've taped in place on its part so I know exactly where everything goes. :D

Well, I've not followed that wire to the plug on my xb600. But one thing I know for sure. It's no great feat to change the rear tire or tube. I won't advise that you leave the cable/wire to the back wheel connected or disconnected. Personally, it's no problem for me and I wouldn't go to that trouble. Course there are some who can't understand how I patch a tube without taking the wheel off...so I guess it's up to the individual. All I can say is it's easy if you are the least bit familiar with what you are doing to do it the way I described. I've even considered putting a new tube around the axle...and wire tying it to the swingarm, out of the way, just as a spare in case I have a flat. I know I can cut the old tube off. And, if the new tube is already around the axle all I have to do is put the scoot on the center stand, get the rear wheel off the ground, remove the plastic cover on one side, cut loose the new tube...and the rest as I described above. That way I would always be prepared...as long as I had a small hand pump with me.

Gushar