E-Fun or Mountain Chen

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Xiamen Efun
Xiamen Efun's picture
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Joined: 05/18/2009
Points: 27
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Dear electric motorcycle users in the US and other countries,

Recently we have been continuously informed by EFUN customers about the appearance of a photo shown in the Web link
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/10999587/Arnold_Schwarzenegger_appreciate_our_electric_scooter/showimage.html.
Arnold.JPG

They have questioned the authenticity of the photo in that web link and wonder if it is legally used, for EFUN also uses this photo on its own website :www.efun-ev.com

Arnold-ZAP-EFUN.JPG

EFUN would like to make it clear that this is the photo we took with Mr. Anrnold Schwarzenegger on October 2007 when our products were shown to him, and has been illegally used by Mr. Mountain Chen.

Three months ago we formally urged Mr. Mountain Chen to withdraw the photo from his website and other places related with his products, but he only removed it from his website and still uses it in his factory and alibaba webpage etc, which has confused many of our customers who mistake EFUN as part of his company,or his company as part of EFUN.

we also hope to make it clear that EFUN has nothing related with Mr.Mountain Chen's company .

We hope Mr.Mountain Chen understand that it is unethical and unlawful to falsify the photo and deceit customers. We strongly urged him to stop promoting his products by using this photo from all occasions, and his failure of doing so will lead to severe consequences against him. We reserve the rights to take legal actions against any company or person that makes false claims on EFUN’s products and violates the trademark and other intellectual property rights of EFUN.

electron
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Joined: 10/06/2008
Points: 11
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Mountain Chen has had his last chance.
He seems to have learned nothing and continues to lie as much as he ever did.
As recently as April 2009 he said he had shipped me a set of replacement batteries and a throttle.

Since then he's gone silent , ignoring my emails asking where the parts have got to.

SO, I'm now building a website which will tell the story of my own sorry experience with Mountain Chen and the stories of others who have been let down by him.
Full details of his lies will be published online so that prospective customers may know what they are letting themselves in for if they choose to deal with him.
Any users here who wish me to feature their Mountain Chen related problems, please pm me via the forum and I'll make sure your story is told.
The site address will be http://www.mountainchen.info
I am very skilled at SEO so, once this site is built, I will ensure that this site is the number 1 result on google for anyone searching the term Mountain Chen.

Piers
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Joined: 06/09/2009
Points: 63
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

DO NOT DEAL WITH MOUNTAIN CHEN. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

Spent ages checking details with him by email and over the phone, eventually, with the photos on the web of his manufacturing site, decided to order a couple:

One bike was actually a stolen bike - the vin plate had obviously been tampered with and the serial number had been ground off the frame. This meant it could not be registered and was scrapped.

The bikes were the wrong colours

He sent them to the wrong port - which cost me an extra £200

The detailing on one of the bikes was horrendous

Obviously he would not sent a refund.

After that did find a couple of bad reports about him on the web. Not sure if Jinlun do electric now, if so they are a large company and would be better? If you are serious about importing a crate, I would go to China and test every bike.

mrchubby
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Joined: 06/05/2009
Points: 2
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

I've been researching suppliers for a project in the South Pacific and these two (erider and efun) have popped up more than a few times. I have even sent my agent in China to visit erider factory and report back.
However I keep seeing reliability and supply issues popping up which stymies further enquiries.
Has anyone got any knowledge of Jonway? They are not available in US as yet.
They make regular scooters and seem to be well thought of.
I am wondering about their electric offerings. They have a couple of 5000W bikes which look very reasonable pricewise and they use 60V/40Ah LFP/LCP Li-ion Thundersky batteries.
What other areas of concern should I cover off?
Any info is going to be helpful

Here are a couple of the bikes I am looking at.

Thanks Dave

jonway MBM.JPG
jonway MYX.JPG

fullyamped
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Joined: 06/25/2009
Points: 2
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

I am thinking about buying the first model, it is called the thunder 5000w. It seems to have been available for several months now, but I cannot find anyone who has received it yet. The youtube videos seem impressive, but I am having hesitations after reading the "first hand" accounts above. Here are the links in case anyone is interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j65V5jEBdOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyVxKUZVyIM&feature=related


Swenergy
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Joined: 06/26/2009
Points: 19
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Hello,

I'm speaak from Portugal. I also wanted to do business with Erider and Efun, but they only show one another.
So, I bought Jonway. I am experiencing now. The quality is good. Still can not achieve the autonomy that they suggest (75km).

little
little's picture
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Joined: 03/29/2009
Points: 37
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

As an electric scooter supplier from China for 4 years, we still don't think the electric motorcycle more than 3000 watt quality are perfect or mature...especially on the controller technology. I know there are 80A work current inside the controller, that big current make the controller and motor hot, it can work for a while to get that high speed with that big current, but can not work all the time until the battery exhaust... once the battery work, its voltage will get lower and lower.

__________________

www.topmotorx.com

Mountain chen
Offline
Joined: 09/05/2007
Points: 319
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Xiamen Efun wrote:

Dear electric motorcycle users in the US and other countries,

Recently we have been continuously informed by EFUN customers about the appearance of a photo shown in the Web link
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/10999587/Arnold_Schwarzenegger_appreciate_our_electric_scooter/showimage.html.
Arnold.JPG

They have questioned the authenticity of the photo in that web link and wonder if it is legally used, for EFUN also uses this photo on its own website :www.efun-ev.com

Arnold-ZAP-EFUN.JPG

EFUN would like to make it clear that this is the photo we took with Mr. Anrnold Schwarzenegger on October 2007 when our products were shown to him, and has been illegally used by Mr. Mountain Chen.

Three months ago we formally urged Mr. Mountain Chen to withdraw the photo from his website and other places related with his products, but he only removed it from his website and still uses it in his factory and alibaba webpage etc, which has confused many of our customers who mistake EFUN as part of his company,or his company as part of EFUN.

we also hope to make it clear that EFUN has nothing related with Mr.Mountain Chen's company .

We hope Mr.Mountain Chen understand that it is unethical and unlawful to falsify the photo and deceit customers. We strongly urged him to stop promoting his products by using this photo from all occasions, and his failure of doing so will lead to severe consequences against him. We reserve the rights to take legal actions against any company or person that makes false claims on EFUN’s products and violates the trademark and other intellectual property rights of EFUN.

I am not a talker and I am busy on high season production.....

But this topic already related to my name and I have to make it clear......

The photo is taken and owned by ZAP because Arnold Schwarzenegger is invited to China by ZAP in 2007. But now ZAP already got rid of EFUN and come back to us because of ZAPINO quality problem. And Efun D in photo never sell to ZAP because of quality problem too. Anyone may confirm this information with ZAP's CEO,Mr Steve .

That was the reason I put this photo on Alibaba.com. Our purpose is to do promtion for ZAP.

Anyway,we decided to delete this photo because we don't have time and energy negotiating on such nonsense topic. Very good business this year.

Iccarus
Iccarus's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/20/2008
Points: 347
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

I agree, just keep cranking out the bikes and making them better. Who cares about a stupid picture. May the best bike win!

__________________

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycle Analyst mounted in 48v Lipo 30AH battery Box. 16kw in an 89lb. Trike! O-54mph/5sec

little
little's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/29/2009
Points: 37
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

electron wrote:

Mountain Chen has had his last chance.
He seems to have learned nothing and continues to lie as much as he ever did.
As recently as April 2009 he said he had shipped me a set of replacement batteries and a throttle.

Since then he's gone silent , ignoring my emails asking where the parts have got to.

SO, I'm now building a website which will tell the story of my own sorry experience with Mountain Chen and the stories of others who have been let down by him.
Full details of his lies will be published online so that prospective customers may know what they are letting themselves in for if they choose to deal with him.
Any users here who wish me to feature their Mountain Chen related problems, please pm me via the forum and I'll make sure your story is told.
The site address will be http://www.mountainchen.info
I am very skilled at SEO so, once this site is built, I will ensure that this site is the number 1 result on google for anyone searching the term Mountain Chen.

__________________

www.topmotorx.com

wookey
Offline
Joined: 04/08/2009
Points: 90
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

I've got an erato 1500W, branded 'Sakura S50'. Sakura Battery Co were importing to the UK for a few years, presumably from Mr Chen, but now appear to be defunct (website gone). That's not you is it FenMan? (I know it was run by an 'older gent' :-).

I've found the machine I've got (imported early 2007) to be very good. It's done 2100miles so far, largely on a 12.5mile/19km each way commute and range appears undiminished (I did 29.9 miles yesterday with a 2hr charge after 12miles, so that's 17.6m with some capacity to spare on a not-full charge). Lots of minor build-quality details were poor but having fixed those the basic electrics part seems very satisfactory.

I'm interested in the various references above to 'the ERATO story'. Can anyone tell me what the history is?

And I'm also posting to say that the hardware _can_ be OK - I guess it's been a bit hit and miss.

It'd be useful to know what other brands the ERATO machines have been sold under so owners can get together.

__________________

Wookey
Sakura s50 (Efun A)

Swenergy
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2009
Points: 19
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Hello people,
I have made my first experience with Jonway, 3000w 48v/40ah:
Max speed: 60km/h
Range speed: 60km
I think this is very good for the price in the market.

doorframe
Offline
Joined: 07/19/2008
Points: 25
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Hi Wookey...Very similar experience for me. My Erato is 1500W, with over 2000m, round trip of about 20 miles (10 miles each way)with a top-up at each end taking 1 1/2 hours. Used every day in the summer and weather permitting in the winter. Had it almost a year now with no major faults. Only "trouble" is the ticking from the front that Fenman describes as like a stick in the spokes. It's still just under warranty, (assuming Fenman is still around), but it doesn't cause any problem, and hasn't got any worse in the time since I first noticed it...at about 500miles...so I haven't bothered Fenman about it. If there is a simple fix I'd appreciate the info. I wonder if you have managed to get any info on servicing I.E. schematics, parts info etc. I agree that build quality is a bit lacking, but I got it for a bargain price, and it's just about paid for itself, and to be honest I really enjoy riding it!

Ken68
Ken68's picture
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Joined: 08/05/2008
Points: 138
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

That ticking sound is loose spokes. Use an adjustable wrench and tighten all the spokes evenly and the sound will disappear. I had the same problem with my E-Bike and the head tech could not figure it out till I checked the spokes and found 80% of them were loose on the rear wheel.

__________________

Thanks,
Ken Finch

doorframe
Offline
Joined: 07/19/2008
Points: 25
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

hey...nice idea about the loose spokes..but as you'll see from this pic the wheels are alloys..

fenman says in his post it's a 'hall' problem. As an ex electronics engineer the 'hall-effect' chips I've come across have been silent in operation, with no moving parts, so I'm sceptical about this but I won't disagree without investigating. Does sound like a definite mechanical issue.

BTW...Fenman's website (commuterconcepts)is gone and I'm getting no reply from the number on my receipt / guarantee. If you are still out there Fenman, give us a nod. I'm not after a warrenty claim, just some advice.

garygid
Offline
Joined: 12/20/2008
Points: 441
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

So, this is a once-around noise?

If from the front, it is not coming from the motor or a cracked (or loose-bolt) rear-wheel rim.

In the front, if it is not a cracked wheel rim, that only leaves brake pads rubbing, something in the speedometer cable or gearing, or one of the two ball bearings, right?

__________________

Cheers, Gary
XM-5000Li, wired for cell voltage measuring and logging.

wookey
Offline
Joined: 04/08/2009
Points: 90
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Doorman: I kind of feel we should take this to a new thread as it's not really about e-fun any more, but I'm not sure what it should be called. 'Erato-04 1500W/2000W fettling' perhaps? Like I said I'd like to know how many other brands are the same thing.

I've found plenty of sources for body parts. The secret code is BT49QT-9 which covers a range of petrol mopeds such as the Baotian scout that are the same body. So that should do us for tyres, plastics, brakes, frame, switches, lights, mirrors etc. I found 3 UK suppliers and one in Germany.

These were cheapest and helpful: http://www.chinesemotorcyclepartsonline.co.uk/index.php
These have exploded diagrams and were quick/competent/nearly as cheap: http://www.centralscooters.co.uk/index.php?cPath=513_563_19

I haven't yet found any controller info, but mine looks well-made and I'll take some photos next time I have it out.

Re your ticking, if it is happening at wheel-rotation frequency from the front wheel and there is nothing obviously interfering (does it happen if you jack the front wheel up and spin the wheel?) then I'd blame the bearing. Cycle bearings sometimes tick when on the way out, so maybe that's it.

Where are you? I'm in cambridge

__________________

Wookey
Sakura s50 (Efun A)

Ken68
Ken68's picture
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Joined: 08/05/2008
Points: 138
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Yes it sounds like a wheel bearing then. I just had my front wheel bearing replaced and it was making a ticking and grinding noise as well, plus you could feel the grinding bearings all the way up the steering column.

__________________

Thanks,
Ken Finch

doorframe
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Joined: 07/19/2008
Points: 25
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Hi guys..yes, the wheel bearing does sound favorite, as it will only make the noise with the weight of the bike, not jacked up. Spinning in thin air it sounds fine. Already checked the obvious...binding brake pads, etc. Didn't want to go too deep into it when it first happened, as it wasn't really causing any problem, and I might invalidate the warranty, although I'm beginning to suspect that by then the warrenty was worthless. Don't know at what time Mr Hill drifted off the radar, although I hope he's alive and healthy as he is actually a really nice bloke. I'm sure he was based in the Peterborough area, as are (strangely enough) most of the Electric Scooters (proper uk road legal ones) on ebay, which is where I found mine. I'm in Basildon, Essex, about 90 miles south.

Only spare parts (specific to electric)I've managed to track down so far is a 48V charger for £30 on ebay. If the controller or anything else fails I'm screwed!

I think these are probably the most common electric scooter in the uk, as they were being sold in many guises when I bought mine a year ago, so a specific thread on here would be really helpfull to all owners.

Maybe Mr Chen would care to contribute with some info?

Ken68
Ken68's picture
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Joined: 08/05/2008
Points: 138
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Another way to check if the wheel bearings are at fault is to grab the wheel and try to move it left to right. If there is any play (movement) from the left to the right at all then the wheel bearings need replacing. If there is no movement then the wheel bearing might be fine.

__________________

Thanks,
Ken Finch

doorframe
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Joined: 07/19/2008
Points: 25
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Good news...I've just heard from Fenman (Bill Hill). He's alive and kicking and showing up nicely on the radar! He's still in the business although his Peterborough shop has gone. He never did get the motors and controllers that he paid for. He's had to cannibalise his remaining bikes for spares.

Mountain Chen..you need to get a grip on customer relations! You can't just keep stitching people up! Be a man and live up to your obligations!

Anyway, Bill suggested the speedo cable (as garygid suggested) as the most likely source of the ticking. It's easy to check, so I'll let you know.

GBMaker
Offline
Joined: 06/10/2008
Points: 12
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Ken,
Both scooters I've bought from Mountain produced a quite loud grinding and ticking noise coming from the front wheel.
It turns out it's the speedometer gears inside the cast gearbox on the side of the front wheel.
I drilled a 1/4" hole in the side of the gear barrel, packed it with green Lithium grease, and then sealed it again with RTV.
Voila! No more noise. - George

__________________

The most interesting phrase in history is not, "Eureka!", but rather, "That's funny...."

Mountain chen
Offline
Joined: 09/05/2007
Points: 319
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

doorframe wrote:

Good news...I've just heard from Fenman (Bill Hill). He's alive and kicking and showing up nicely on the radar! He's still in the business although his Peterborough shop has gone. He never did get the motors and controllers that he paid for. He's had to cannibalise his remaining bikes for spares.

Mountain Chen..you need to get a grip on customer relations! You can't just keep stitching people up! Be a man and live up to your obligations!

Anyway, Bill suggested the speedo cable (as garygid suggested) as the most likely source of the ticking. It's easy to check, so I'll let you know.

Who is Fenman? I don't think I ever sell him scooters.

First I want to appologize for lack of after sale service for hundreds of single sample buyers,because we are not retailers,we are mostly focus on fleet buyers.Anyway,we still provide sample buyers free parts based on "Freight collect",that's what we can do,and most of sample buyers are glad to pay for the freight costs.Most little of them don't like this policy and attack me on this forum.

We sell thousands of scooters every year and now we become the biggest high power scooter manufacturer in the world since Vectrix was out.Of course more sale will cause more competitors and hostility carp,who just want to kill EV when it is still a baby. I don't worry about it,statistics have proved that my scooters are most welcome on the market.Of course we will do better service for fleet buyer and importers.........

Anyone who doubt the GOOD SALE of my scooter,just give me his mailbox,I will send him photos of every week containers delivery. Good quality or good reputation....production prove it !

RedKing73
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2007
Points: 58
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

I originally posted this in Feb 2009. In this thread.

"Mountain, many times over a period of months I requested spare parts but never received them. I asked you so many times by email for a speedometer/voltmeter, as the 4000w quad had none when it was delivered. Just a gaping hole?

I was also asked to contact another reseller / dealer along with a multitude of excuses. You said earlier in this thread that you would be compensating William Hill for his many defective units and parts.

I was also badly misled on battery cycles in many emails.

Will you now be compensating mine or at least forwarding the required parts to me FOC?

Like you , I'd like to forget Shanghai also. In fact, a labotomy would be nice. Its seems the squeaky wheels get the grease. So perhaps you can PM me about my well overdue parts Mountain."

In the last few days, I've had a load of emails from you again Mountain. How many times have I sent you my email addresses and requested that you delete them from your spam marketing (maybe 10 times now over 24 months) and warned you that I want nothing to do with you whatsoever? You arew a disgrace. Your actions with regards to my company and others (UK, Norway) are nothing less than criminal. I defy you to explain why you sent me prototypes in the wrong colours, why you sent 4 containers to UK that were essentially not road-legal and also ALL had faulty DC_DC converters plus non-waterproofed controllers. Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on Norwegian paperwork?? Oh dear....

You insult sample buyers by saying they should pay for spare parts delivery. On a brand new delivery? That was shoddily passed and transported by you? My quads arrived into Dublin in unsellable condition. One had no voltmeter for God's sake. You are a liar. You are a charlatan. You have nothing but excuses to people who are go-ahead business people. There are so many suppliers out there that anyone here who reads this and buys from any company that's involved with you, fully deserves the hardship they get. The only reason that i purchased from you initially, and not from Rick Doran of Gorilla Vehicles in USA, is because of press releases from ZAP, all about the magnificent Mountain Chen. What a load of ****.

Buy from companies that are genuinely doing something special. Mountain Chen has a fully documented history of sending out the wrong goods, shoddy goods and also ignoring support pleas from large distributors (and small ones) who he ignores because they did not buy a FLEET or a CONTAINER from him. You are a fly by night cowboy. A disease in business circles. You're a lucky man Mountain, that you don't live in the same country as me, that's all I can say. I do not appreciate having been hoodwinked and robbed. And then being spammed monthly by the same idiot. Maybe I'll buy me a plane ticket, who knows? would you risk giving me a tour of your factory?

RedKing73
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2007
Points: 58
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

jdh2550_1However - I'm also not saying that the new bikes aren't without issues. However, I've yet to hear of any manufacturer (even the mighty Vectrix) who haven't had any issues.[/quote wrote:

Hi JohnH, just picking up on this point. Its fine if you have a hardworking reputable player like you and your team in the middle, between Mountain and 'innocents'.

But Vectrix, while they might have issues, would not send wrong colours, lower spec batteries (this is criminal robbery in fact) and many other damning points which are not 'issues'. Mountain Chen is a pathological liar and my email inbox proves it; over 4 years.

And yeah everybody, I've an axe to grind with Mountain Chen. Despite assuring me in March 2009 that he had removed all of my emails from his mailing lists, he still keeps spamming me.

What a business s**thead.

electron
Offline
Joined: 10/06/2008
Points: 11
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Well, at least we are getting the word out about Mr Mountain Chen and his shoddy products with non-existent backup from the manufacturer. Anyone googling the phrase 'mountain chen' will find 5 of the 10 results on page 1 will take them to pages telling the truth about his style of doing business.
Time to start targeting more search terms such as 'xiamen zap' and his latest model names/numbers I think.
www.mountainchen.info

RedKing73
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2007
Points: 58
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Well done Electron for your solid work.

It is only fair that people realise who they are about to do business with.

I know of end-users that contacted him also and were highly critical. It might be no harm to list some of his current resellers / dealers in those tags / search terms. People need full transparency on this "businessman".

Mountain chen
Offline
Joined: 09/05/2007
Points: 319
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Being too busy even at low season ,I didn't come here for 2 month,I am very shock to find that 2 caitiffs use such crazy way to attack me and my company !

Pls don't hurt my dealers and importers,if my scooter and service are so bas as they fabulized,how come we get such a lot of orders at low season ?

No need to speak too much based on my poor English. seeing is believing. The proof will strike their ugly minding .... we are the best scooter in the market....at least now my scooters are very welcome .

Vectrix is out,E-max is sick,less and less topic on EVT now,we are the rare company in this field with growing market share. Don't hurt us.

EV is a baby and very weakness,The above 2 blackness guy,pls shut off your mouth and stop polluting the forum and pullting the earth.DSC01827_0.JPGDSC01013.JPGGreece.jpgDEC 18,2009.jpg
Our high performance scooter export more than 300pcs during pass Dec.....

marcopolo
Offline
Joined: 05/10/2009
Points: 837
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

I have been reading this thread, with great interest, for some time now, and I must disagree with those who say Mountain Chen is a Fly by Night! He may (or may not) be a lousy Bike maker, but his constant stream of replies displays a fierce determination to stay around and argue his case!

In fact part of the problem would appear to be that he doesn't fly anywhere! Perhaps he should take a tour of his customers,(with bodyguards)!!!

I do not know Mountain Chen, or the rights or wrongs of your issues with him. However, I do have 28 years of dealing with Asians nations, including the PRC. Importing from the PRC is always fraught with difficulties, not because they are dishonest or particularly exploitive, but simply because they have very different business practises and expectations.

Trading with the PRC can have many advantages, but if you are not very experienced, you are liable to strike real drawbacks! Shouting, and complaining will not help! this is the PRC, not ROC! The law and commercial attitudes are very different, from province to province, area to area, industry to industry, family to family. You may find it more helpful if you consulted a reputable business agent with an office in both countries to liaise for you. While the law in China is incomprehensible (even to Chinese), There are government agencies who would take an interest in a Chinese manufacturer wilfully damaging 'Made in China' abroad.

Your agent should be someone with sufficient influence to make this suggestion, and also to find a way for both parties to save face and achieve greater understanding. No Chinese manufacturer wants to appear before a government enquiry, as to why he is driving business to the ROC. The outcome of such an enquiry can have unfortunate ramifications!

However a good agent will tactfully educate the manufacturer in regard to your needs and expectations! He can also assist to develop your knowledge of the complexities in dealing with such a very different business culture.

I hope this is helpful, good luck!

Mountain Chen, if you are sincere, you should really think about employing an export consultant to assist with Western customer Relations.

__________________

marcopolo

RedKing73
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2007
Points: 58
Re: E-Fun or Mountain Chen

Mr Polo,

Marco, if that's not too personal, the issue has never been with the bikes (I have often said that, for the value, the products were usually good. My issue is with Mr Chen's lies. Those are real and substantiated and can be detailed over many emails from many dissatisfied customers who bought samples (some bought containers) and were shown great disrespect and unethical behaviour by Mr Chen who then decided that as those customers had only bought a few products, that they were not worth the effort.

Mr Polo, perhaps you are a consultant that can help Mr Chen. If so, bravo. I was a customer, and I couldn't help him........... Neither could an awful lot of potential big-business customers. Mr Chen does not seem to understand that bad business practice and unethical practices are a universal language. No translation or consultants required in that regard. He's an expert.

Your input is interesting. But for an exporting company (PRC, ROC, USA, USSR or Mars) to do business, it must also be aware of the basic business standards of its partners. Mr Chen wiped his boots on many people a few years ago. If that has changed, whoopy doo! He still owes many people spare parts, product and refunds.

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