72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

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zerogas
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Hey all,
I put the 4110 100v mosfets I ordered from www.digikey.com in my controller last night. WHAT A PAIN IN THE ARSE!!! At least now I can run 72v without fear of burning up my controller (maybe). I'll get some pics up soon, til then here's another low quality cell phone video :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl7V5iHOYbQ
Keep up the good work,
Warren

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zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Here are some pics of the controller PCB and mosfets.. I couldn't really take alot of pics because I was busy soldering, but you can see what everything looks like...
mosfet4110.jpg
Here you can see the 4110 mosfets are the same size as the stock 75v mosfets.

PCBback.jpg
This picture shows the shunt soldering in the blue circle and ALL of the solder points for the mosfets in the white circle.

mosfetsdone.jpg
Here are the new mosfets all soldered in. I know, I know, you're not supposed to bend the legs, but they were stubborn. :(

mosfetgrease.jpg
Don't forget to put dielectric grease on the back of the mosfets or they won't last a week.

capacitors.jpg
Look at the size of the 100v capacitors!! LOL!!! I took these out of the 72v controller I ordered. That controller must have been a pedal first controller, because it shuddered violently on take off.

I hope these pics shed a little insight on what is involved in changing mosfets. It was no 30 minute project. Maybe if I knew what I was doing and had a desoldering iron it would have been easier, but I had my nephew use one of those baby snot sucker bulbs to remove solder from all the mosfet's leg holes. LMAO!! We got it done though.
Happy modding,
-Warren

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laurierocs
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Wow Zerogas! You are awesome! I loved watching the video! It gives us that don't have an XB yet an idea of how quiet those bikes really are! To go almost 35 mph up a hill is quite a feat! Let us know how it holds up. How many miles do you estimate you'll get before re-charging?

Is there a way to lock this bike? Also, where do you all park it, at the bike rack or a parking stall? Have you ever tried using the pedals? I wonder how well they really work.

Keep up the good work!

Laurie

zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Laurie,
I don't have the pedals on my bike nor would I use them if they were. In fact I took the chain off too. I park where cars park, and you can lock the handlebars on the scooter by turning the wheel all the way(can't remember if it's left or right) and pushing the key in and turning it left. I'm guessing I'll get about 10-15 miles without a recharge running 72v. I'm charging up right now, so I can find out when it's charged. :) Did you order a scooter yet?
-Warren

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hyperob
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Sweet Assssssss. Nice job on the mossfets.

I noticed there weren't too many cars around your parts....lucky you. Those roads looked pretty good as well. I hit a pothole going thirty and I thought the bike was gonna fly apart. Its not the motor I am worried about...its everything else. ;)

Nice job Warren. Do you think thats it....the limit on this bike has been reached modding the stock stuff? I think the only thing left is lighter battery pack to get more distance...maybe a little more speed.

Headline: "Zerogas Breaks Sound Barrier!!!!" That's what I am waiting for.

laurierocs
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Thanks for the answering my ?'s. I was hoping there was a way to lock the bike. I work in a high school and I hate the thought of someone stealing it...or messing with it.

I have not ordered one yet, just checked into the laws again today to make sure it's legal in my city. We have strange ordinances. But it does fall in the category of a "Moped" because of the pedals, useable or not...probably not. But even for show, will not have to license it, insure it or have a motorcycle license. I absolutely love the fact it's electric so I would be doing my "Green" part. (These are points I'm trying to sell my husband on, LOL) He thinks he can do the mods, just isn't looking forward to it. I've read ALOT about the mods, this wiring, that wiring, can you point us in the right direction for what works best?

Articfox is next on my list...

Thanks again everyone!

Laurie

zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Yeah, I think 72v is all these things can handle. Without changing motors/controllers, 35MPH is about all your gonna get from these bikes. Testing will tell the tale of 72v. I'm not too sure this voltage won't burn something up. I'm just pushing it as far as I can to see what it can take. So far, it performed well and still didn't even blow a fuse. I'm fairly sure the motor can take 72v and even though the mosfets have been upgraded in the controller, the traces on the pcb are my next concern and I just don't solder well enough to do anything about them. The 72v controller I ordered from ecrazyman@gmail.com had 1/8" of solder laid down on all the powered traces. It was a really nice controller that just didn't work well with my motor. I'll be testing and keeping you all posted.
-Warren

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hyperob
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Hi Laurie,

When you get your bike and are ready to do the mods, we will all be here to help you out however we can. Everyone on this board is pretty helpful and if you can't find the right answer there is always someone there to point you in the right direction.

My 2 cents:

The shunt mod works best using a plain coat hanger. It seems about right. I've done two of them one using a coat hanger and the other using an oversized paper clip. Both worked the same but the concensus is that the coat hanger is the safer bet. Either way I would replace the 30amp fuse and holder that came with the bike. They are not great quality and with the mod you have the chance of blowing a fuse going up a steep hill and keeping the throttle all the way open with the stock fuse and holder.

For the battery wiring if you are going to go to 60 volts: It depends if you want to use one charger or two. I prefere to use only one charger that plugs in the standard socket so I wired the battery after the pack just like MilleyM described. This way I can always remove the battery and go back to 48V or just keep the battery permanently attached and use a 60Volt charger. This mod is defenitely easier than the shunt mod and shouldn't take more than 1 hour to complete.

As for the pedals: They are only a nuissance when you want to back up. They engage and tend to bang your shins. You just have to remember you have them on. I finally took mine off and carry them in the under seat storage in a ziplock bag in case I get stopped.

The lock and park: Yes turn the handlebars to the left and turn the key and the front forks lock. I also use a lock on the front wheel just to be sure. I always park in a car space and no one ever bothers you for doing that. It really doesn't look like a bicycle so its not that strange a sight.

Some of this stuff Zero and others have already answered but just thought I would confirm so you can get a more complete picture.

Cheers.

laurierocs
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Thanks Hyperob, that was the info I was looking for. So did you leave on the chain in case you need to put the pedals on? I wonder...if you get stopped by the police, do you think showing them the pedals would be good enough not to get a ticket?

Laurie

depetro
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Warren,

In stock form, are the mosfets heatsunk to the aluminum chassis of the controller? I'm just wondering if/what they are heatsunk to as that would be a huge component of how much power they can source before causing problems. I'm guessing that they're heatsunk to something as you did mention making sure to replace the thermal grease in your post.

Craftkiller
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

AWESOME, I just purchased my scooter a couple hours ago so this looks absolutely great to see. I think one thing I would change is at the end of the video you should have said "zero gas" instead of "no gas" =)

hyperob
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Hi Laurie,

Yeah, I left the chain on.

The law in California is that the vehicle should have "fully operational pedals for human propulsion". I have them and they can be put on in 10 seconds if I need them. It may or may not get me out of a ticket if I ever do get stopped and the police officer actually knows the law. From what I was told by the local police station is that "most wouldn't know what to make of you if they did stop you".

I figure showing the pedals wouldn't hurt...they are technically on the bike. He or she might be persuaded to just let me install them and be on my way. You can't really use them though since they are actually behind where you sit so they are incredibly akward to make work, not to mention you look ridiculous as you try to use them. When I had them on and people asked me to show how it works with the pedals, I routinely got laughed at.....

laurierocs
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Re: Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Thanks again for the info about the pedals. Sounds like a plan to me, not installing them but having them handy if need be.

My husband has a question:

In regards to changing the 48 Volt system to 60 or 72...does this affect all circuits on the bike? I assume the lights are 12 volt, are these on a separate circuit run from just one battery?

Thanks,

Laurie's husband

laurierocs
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Craftkiller, can I ask where you got your scooter? Keep us informed when you receive it and when and if you do the mods.

Laurie

Craftkiller
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

I got the scooter from HXC Motors for $769 with free residential delivery http://hxcmotors.com/x-treme_xb600.php

The purchase was through paypal and their site LOOKS legit (they have a phone number) so hopefully it will be a speedy delivery... The price on their site is significantly lower than others I found (I went through 10 pages of google search to find it) so I am hoping this all works out ok... you might want to wait for my report on the delivery before purchasing yours from there

As for the mods, I am gonna keep it stock for a while (hopefully at most a month) to make sure everything is working before I start voiding warrentys ;)

no doubt Ill keep you guys updated on my mods, but I doubt ill try anything new like zerogas is doing constantly, more likely Ill be following his mods and just reporting that they worked for me too =)

bocabikeguy
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Re: Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Quote:

My husband has a question:

In regards to changing the 48 Volt system to 60 or 72...does this affect all circuits on the bike? I assume the lights are 12 volt, are these on a separate circuit run from just one battery?

Thanks,

Laurie's husband

Yes, that is exactly the right question to ask. There is a box on the bike that is a little smaller than the controller, called a DC-DC converter, that converts the 48 volts from the batteries to 12 volts for the lights. I have seen these converters burn out when connected to 5 batteries (60v), but at 72v, the converter probably won't last long. In the original XB-600 60v mod thread, I posted a schematic for connecting the DC-DC converter to 48v and the controller/motor at 60v. This mod is even more important at 72v. It involved using a small relay. But the bigger issue is that you will either have to recharge the original 48v batteries seperately - since they will drain faster because they also power the lights, or you will have to install some sort of battery balancing device.

zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Yeah, I got a relay on order from mouser. :) Thanks for the schematic, but can you clarify it some? does the relay get wired inline with the red wire that is coming from the key switch? Then 48v is run to it from where? I'm a little confused on this one as I don't mess with relays much.
-Warren

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zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Ok, what I don't understand is how I can isolate only 48v from a 72v system??!

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hyperob
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Hey Warren,

Why don't you get a 36-72 Volt to 12V DC/DC converter and slap it in there? That should ease your worries.

Power Converter

Doesn't the XB have something similar? I do believe it is rated higher than 60Volts. Anyone?

hyperob
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Re: Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Hi Laurie,

As bocaguy pointed out there is a DC-DC converter on the bike. It takes the power from all the batteries and steps it down to 12V. It is rated to at least 60V so you should be okay at 60....72 on the other hand that is Zerogas territory... plus you will then have to have two or three seperate chargers unless you can find a 72Volt charger. I like to keep it simple and clean and its fairly easy to find a 60volt charger that is compatible. I have the XM-2000 which is $100 but is quite sturdy and I also have a $50 from e-crazyman on ebay. That one lasted two days but he did send me a new pcb board to replace....more soddering ;( I bought the extra battery from X-Treme so it is the same as the originals on the bike and they all appear to be taking the same charge so far without a battery balancer.

60V appears so far(2 weeks of daily use) to be pretty safe on these bikes and for the type of commute you are using it for 30mph should do fine. The bike has enough get up and go to get you out of trouble quickly enough.

bocabikeguy
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Zero, you added two extra batteries. The negative terminal of one battery is the 48v tap and the positive terminal of the other battery is the 72v tap.

laurierocs
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Re: Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Thanks hyperob and bocabikeguy, I'll pass that info along to my husband. Sorry Zerogas for hi-jacking your thread.

zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Trouble at 72v. :( Today I rode to work to see if I could still go to work and back without charging. The bike pulled well and even went 32mph uphill on the way. I went in work for a few minutes and when I came back out to leave.... BAAAADDD. The motor shuddered like it did when I had the ecrazyman controller on it, so I knew I had a controller problem. I had my nephew and his friend pick me and the scooter up, and when I got home I took off the controller. When I opened it up, I immediately smelled something horrible. Upon closer examination I found exactly what I had suspected... one of the capacitors (63v) that I thought went to another circuit were in fact on the power circuit and it had blown.
capmelt.jpg

These are 63v 470uf capacitors. I had some 100v 47uf capacitors from the ecrazyman controller, so I wiped up all the brown liquid and swapped them out....
capreplaced.jpg

So, I put everything back together and although the motor still turns, it is still shuddering and sounding funny. My question is... Have I fried my motor or are the 100v47uf capacitors too small for it to run right still?

I need ideas guys.
-Warren
The mosfets still looked good....
mosfetsgood.jpg

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hyperob
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Hey Warren,

Do you have an extra controller? I think you might have something else burnt out on the 72V. This would be the way to check the motor. Check your fuses as well. Mine kind of did a funny sound when I blew the fuses as well.

zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

The fuses are still good, I'm stumped at the moment. It's either gotta be the capacitors or the motor.

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hyperob
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

My feeling is capacitors. I would get a new controller and swap the fuses and see where that leaves you. Its cheaper then a new motor and you would need another one anyway just to get back to where you were.

Its a real shame bro.

bocabikeguy
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Zero, if you saw and smelled fried capacitors, why would you expect the motor is damaged? Your problem is almost certainly in the controller, but it is possible that the damage is not limited to only the capacitors. Were the eCrazyman capacitors different capacitance that the ones that were blown?

zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

The 2 capacitors I put in today out of the crazycontroller are 100v 47uF . The one that blew was 63v 470uF. Do you think the 47uF is what's making it still act funny?

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zerogas
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

I went to RadioShack to find 100v 470uF capacitors and the moron behind the counter wouldn't go look in the back, even though I know they have bigger capacitors back there. I know this because I bought a huge 100v 1000 MFD capacitor there. GGGRRRRRR!!!!

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depetro
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

I'd have to check some of my books concerning power circuits, but my guess is that the capacitance differences are probably what are causing your shuddering. My guess is that the 47uF cap provides just enough power reserve to move the motor, but not enough to get it to full torque. I'm thinking that a larger cap would hold more charge and would allow a greater instantaneous torque in the motor thus reducing the shudder.

The only thing that I'm not convinced on is whether the blown cap is actually a charge holding cap for the motor. Usually those are the largest (in capacitance and physically) and I believe that you swapped those initially and did not have any problems with them.

bocabikeguy
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Re: 72v 35MPH xtreme xb 600!!!!!!!! Video link here.

Yes. For sure if the circuit needs a 470 uF cap, using 1/10th of that capacitance would either end up with a lot of ripple or change the circuit frequency by a large amount, depending on what the capacitor is used for. Most likely, it is a filter capacitor, and you have so much ripple that it is surprising your motor turns at all.

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