Skinning the XM-5000LI
I will show the steps I suggest for accessing the batteries in the XM-5000Li
when, for example, one needs to measure voltages to check for a bad battery.
This "skinning" is a several-hour job, at least when done for the first time.
Hopefully my mistakes will help if you decide to undertake this rather large task.
I understand that putting it back together is ... slightly harder.
I have yet to tackle that part.
HOWEVER, I might need to edit the posts to get the picture sequence
or descriptions right or improved, so PLEASE do not reply or comment
until I post that the sequence is complete. If you reply to any of my
posts, I will LOSE the ability to edit that post.
There are several steps, and I will show pictures of each step.
1. Remove Seat
2. Disconnect Battery Pack
3. Remove Trim and Collar
4. Remove lower shiny black trim
5. Remove back body shell and lights
6. Move Instrument Cluster Forward
7. Remove the large dull black plastic "Saddle" Body Part
8. Remove the Top six-pack of Cells
9. Access the Lower Level of three 3-packs of Cells
10. Access the Front two 3-packs of Cells
PLEASE let me get this complete sequence up before you post.
If you need to tell me something, point out an error,
or make a suggestion, PLEASE PM me instead of posting.
When the series is complete, I will post "Series Complete", and
then you can reply to that post (and the following ones) only.
Thanks for your help, Gary
First, it is always best to make sure that ignition is switched off, and
that the circuit breaker under the seat is also switched off (to the left)
before doing any work on your ride.
Although removing the seat is not absolutely necessary, it is easy
to do, and makes two of the following disassembly steps a lot easier.
I did not figure this out until the "skinning" was well underway. Also, it
is best to remove the seat first, before removing the underseat Cargo Bin or
the smaller Top-Battery Cover that is in front of the bin.
One wants to avoid the possibility of this:
So, leave the Cargo Bin and the Top-Battery Cover in place, like this:
Then, remove the 4 nuts on the captive bolt studs, and lift off the seat.
It should be easy to get it back on in the same orientation.
Then, rubber-band (or equivalent) the loose (right) hinge to the spring-loaded
(left) hinge, so that the loose hinge will not fall down on the top battery.
I used two rubber bands, so that if one breaks, the other will serve.
Then, there are 2 screws that allow one to remove the more-or-less triangular
Top-Battery Cover. The back end lifts up a little, and the cover slides
to the rear, exposing most of the top 6-pack of cells.
Finally, remove the Cargo Bin. There are two screws toward the back, and
two at the front lip (that screw into the "bridge" over the battery pack).
Keep all six of the screws and the Top-Battery Cover in the cargo bin
and set it aside until one is almost finished the re-assembly process.
Now, it looks like this:
(insert picture here)
This completes the first (easiest) step.
Next, for safety, I suggest disconnecting the Battery Pack.
When working on the battery, one must be competent to do such work, because
the very high currents that are possible can severely injure a careless person.
Good Rule #1: Never remove the protective cover from more than one
not-connected battery post at any given time.
Good Rule #2: Understand what you are going to do, BEFORE you begin doing it.
Good Rule #3: If you do not understand the risks or are not competent
to do this type of work, stop here and get help.
1. Identify the Pack-Minus (front right-side (upper left below) with
the thin green wire attached).
2. Also, identify the Pack-Positive (rear left-side (lower right below)
with the thin red wire attached). The heavy wire goes to the circuit breaker.
3. Remove the Pack-Minus wire first. Carefully remove the protective cap
(a flat-blade screwdriver might be helpful). Remove the bolt and two washers
from the battery post, and remove the heavy black wire and the thin green wire.
I covered the wires to make sure that they would not touch anything.
I set the bolt and washer aside to be used later during re-assembly.
Re-cover the post with the protective cap.
4. In a similar manner, carefully remove the wires from the Pack-Positive post,
cover the ends, re-cover the post with the protective cap.
5. Then, remove the "bridge" over the cells (that has the circuit breaker attached).
There are two bolts on either side, and no nuts to drop off.
I wrapped the bridge and connected wires in bubble wrap, and
left them in the area where the cargo bin was.
Note the red end on the heavy black wire that was attached to the Pack-Positive.
(Red usually means positive, and black (or green) usually mean negative.)
Now, the top of the battery should look like this:
I suggest labeling the top of protective cap over each cell's positive terminal
with the numbers 1 through 21, starting with the cell attached to Pack-Minus:
Make sure that the protective caps are back in place, and that the disconnected
wires are out of harm's way. They are no longer connected to anything with
voltage (or current), but best to treat all wires as if they are "live".
That completes the disconnecting of the Battery Pack.
The next step is to remove the black "Collar".
It has just come to my attention (thanks Henry42) that it is possible
to access the batteries and even remove them all, skipping this step
and also skipping the following three very time consuming steps:
5. Remove back body shell and lights (LARGE)
6. Move Instrument Cluster Forward (LARGE)
7. Remove the large dull black plastic "Saddle" Body Part (VERY LARGE)
Apparently one could (CAREFULLY) remove the three straps that bridge the two
forward 3-packs by working through the little locked door (where the charging
connector is located). Then, after removing the top 6-pack (needs a socket and
extension), one can remove the dummy "spacer" pack (yes, there is room for one
additional cell here) and remove the forward-most 3-pack of the bottom, back
three 3-packs. That leaves enough room to get the forward 3-packs out, one pack
at a time. Each 3-pack must be slid to the rear, tipped about 45 degrees to the
rear, and then lifted up into the rear "higher" battery box. Then, the 3-pack
can be lifted out.
Unfortunately I found out too late, so I have the special pleasure
of showing you how to complete the "skinning". Also, my large hands
make it more difficult for me to work through the little "charger" door.
But, for those who want to see the frame ... I continue below.
There is one "J" or "L"-shaped silver heavy metal trim piece on each side.
There is one small passenger footrest "insert" of thin metal on each side.
There is one larger main footrest "insert" of thin metal on each side.
1. Remove the two sheet metal screws (not bolts) and their "conical" washers
that hold the passenger footrest insert in place. Wiggle to remove the insert.
2. Similarly, remove the main footrest, four screws and washers. These inserts
are really almost flat, and will "spring" out at you when you wiggle them loose.
I found wiggling them at the top end to be effective.
3. Remove the three screws that hold the heavy trim piece in place, catching
the trim piece as it falls off.
All the screws are the same size, so they can all be put together
to use later during reassembly.
4. Remove the bolt (red arrow below) on each side that holds the "collar"
in place. As I recall, you should catch the nut on the inside as well.
Now, there is just one tab on the back edges, two tabs on the bottom edge
of the sides, and several tabs in front that hold the collar in place.
Wiggle the top front edge of the collar forward a little and the rear sides
of the collar should speing loose. Then, the collar can be moved a little
to the rear to free the front tabs, and then lifted up a little and moved
forward to be removed.
Now, the easy part is done. The next parts get harder.
Note the bolt exposed by removing the collar (the green arrow above).
The shiny black trim on both sides of the scooter needs to be removed next.
Apparently this is necessary even when not doing the full "skinning" of the
scooter, in order to apply new cable ties to hold the rubber "sheet"
that serves as a cover over the bottom, forward two 3-packs.
The right side piece of trim is held in place by 6 reasonably obvious screws
(7 on the left side). One is low in the front, and another is at the back end:
On the left side, there is an additional screw low in the middle:
There are then 4 upper tabs that have screws through them, two are found on
the upper footrest (see the green arrows). The rear-most tab is more obvious.
Note that the tabs appear to have room to slide to the rear.
The remaining tabs (with screws) are on the main footrest (again in green):
With the screws removed, the rear-most end of the trim should pop out a bit,
allowing the trim to slide backward about a quarter of an inch or so, and the
top of the trim piece should then pull straight out away from the scooter to be
removed. This might be sufficient to get the trim pieces off.
However, not knowing the correct procedure, I loosened (even removed) four
additional screws (see the yellow arrows in the two pictures above) thinking
that the tabs might be being held "too tight" to come out. I eventually wiggled
the trim enough that it came off without breaking anything. Then, I could see
how the hidden tabs were arranged.
(add picture here)
Next, removing the rear plastic body ... in one piece.
The rear body shell can be removed in one piece. Do not try to break
it into two pieces unless you have a special reason to do so.
First one removes the "Rack" that is strongly connected to the frame.
It serves both as handles for the passenger and as a place to mount a "trunk".
Is has a weak point, the top bolt hole, so I suspect that one should not
try to lift the scooter's back end using the very back end of the "rack".
Instead, use one or both of the curved "handles" (one on either side).
There are three bolts, the back bolt being a larger size.
Metric sockets are handy to have.
Next, the seat latch is connected by the latch cable to the Body piece.
One could try to disconnect the cable at one end or the other, but
it is a LOT easier to just remove the two bolts (red arrows) that hold
the latch to the frame. Do not remove the bolts that hold the right and
left body pieces together (green arrow). Notice the butt end of the
right taillight socket (the yellow arrow).
When the latch is removed, lay it carefully where the latch cable (red arrows)
will not get kinked, and the key mechanism will not get damaged by a sudden
tug on the latch cable.
The yellow arrow points to the butt end of the left taillight.
Next, gently remove the three lamp sockets (left, right, and center) from the
reflector shells - a small turn counter-clockwise and a little wiggle.
This is what the butt end of the reflector shells look like from the inside:
Now, one is ready to remove the six bolts (three on either side) that hold
the front end of the body part. They are relatively easy to find (see the
red arrows), and capture any nuts that might want to fall out.
The body shell is now ready to slide backward, carefully un-hooking the tabs
(indicated by the red arrows below) on the front end of the body piece.
Here is the body shell slid backward about 6 inches (see the red arrow):
Remove the shell, carefully bringing the latch mechanism along.
This is what is left, the "bones" of the rear end of the scooter.
Set the body piece aside for later re-assembly:
Note that the "signage" on the scooter says "Moped".
But, since there are no pedals, this "motorcycle" cannot be a moped.
When one needs to change the front headlights, replace the fuses, or
otherwise access the wiring in or under the instrument cluster, it is
necessary to "release" the instrument cluster (and windscreen) from the
scooter and move them forward, or even take them off the scooter.
The first step involves removing the V-shaped shiny, black trim piece
that is just over the headlights and under the center, white "parking" light.
After one mounting screw and two mounting bnolts are removed, this V-trim
must be moved about 1/4 inch (in the direction indicated by the green arrows)
to release the 8 tabs that hold it in place.
The one screw in under the front, center of the trim piece. This screw goes
through several pieces of plastic into a "Tinnerman-Style U-Type" nut, so the
screw is easy to remove, but a bit difficult to line up to re-install.
The two long bolts are much more obvious, but they can also be a bit difficult
to line up to re-install. See the red arrows below:
With the screw and two bolts removed, it is only the eight tabs (four on each
side) that hold the V-trim in place. See the blue arrows below:
Slide the V-trim toward the front of the scooter, pulling straight forward
(not up) on the back-most edges of the V-trim ... until the tabs release.
These tabs can be rather snug in their slots (yellow arrows below), so I found
it helpful to use a sharp knife to carefully widen their slots a little bit.
Next, we get ready to move (or "remove") the insturment cluster and the attached
windscreen, removing the eight mounting screws (four on each side), two indicated
by the red arrows above, and two obvious screws indicated by the red arrows below.
Then, the Instrument Cluster and Windscreen assembly will easily slide forward:
The assembly can be lifted up to expose the bottom side of the Instrument Cluster.
Be careful of the many electrical connections, and the speedometer cable.
The Cluster illumination lamps can be accessed here.
Warning: The wire colors going "through" the connectors do not always match,
and a couple of the two-wire connectors could be confused. Best to mark mating
connectors before taking them apart. Do not ask AndyH how he knows (grin).
The DC-to-DC Converter is the prominant silver box in the center of the wiring
found under the Instrument Cluster (here, seen from the right side).
Seen from the front, with the Instrument Cluster and Windscreen moved out of the
way, one could access the two fuses associated with the DC-to-DC Converter (with
one fuse identified by the yellow arrow below). The green arrow is pointing to the
ingition key assembly, which will be important in the next (most difficult) step.
At this point, I left the Instrument Cluster assembly completely connected,
and just moved it forward about 8 inches to provide access to the ignition
switch for the next step. I placed some bubble-wrap under the Instrument
Cluster assembly to better protect the front body of my scooter.
This is the most difficult step, and most people might not need
to do this somewhat drastic step, but here we go ...
The upper footrest has two bolts that need to be removed (on each side).
The main footrest has two bolts (red), three sheet metal screws (yellow), and
one "smaller" sheet metal screw (green) that need to be removed (on each side).
Yes, one (of the yellow) is just off the upper end of the footrest.
Next, we have to remove the front housing of the ignition switch.
The machine screw (red arrow below) is a bit difficult to access, and might
require a tool something like a "stubby" Philips screwdriver.
When the screw is removed, the front part of the housing slides easily
out toward the back of the scooter (in the direction of the green arrow).
Note: The head of the screw on mine was a bit messed up, and I will probably
replace it with a fresh screw when I put it back together.
Now, the final two sheet metal screws (yellow) and one bolt (red) can
be removed. They connect to the three places indicated below.
Note: Re-align the two Tinneran nuts (yellow arrows) before doing the re-assembly.
Then, the whole saddle-piece can be lifted and spread in the back to clear
the seat hinge, and the whole piece removed. Here it is off the scooter.
It all seems a lot easier as I describe it now, and I will have to see
how the re-assembly goes after I check the scooter's batteries.
The next step will be removing the top 6-pack of cells
to access the "hidden" cells on the bottom layer.
This step will
1. Remove the top 6-pack of cells as a unit,
2. Expose the bottom layer of three 3-packs, and
3. Expose the front two 3-packs of cells.
Do not attempt to remove, or even loosen, the black metal band around the
top 6-pack. Instead this 6-pack is removed as one unit. Since the four
heavy-duty cables that connected to it have already been removed, it is only
necessary to remove two bolts (catch the nuts that will fall off).
The bolt on the right side (red arrow, below) is easy to access, but the wiring
harness on the left side makes that bolt a little more difficult. Without the
removal of the rear body section, a socket on a long extension would be needed.
I marked the position of the 6-pack so that I could have a better chance
of getting it back in the right position during re-assembly.
After the two bolts are removed, the 6-pack is easy to lift up and out of the
scooter, using the lifting straps provided on each side of every 3-pack.
Set the 6-pack in a safe place, being careful to not bend the the mounting bracket.
The heavy rubber spacer over the top of the bottom three 3-packs can now be
lifted off. Note my position-marks (yellow arrows), and the heavy power
cable (green arrow) that connects these back cells with the front 6 cells.
Some of the "slots" in the rubber were not really well positioned (red arrows),
and it is likely that I will enlarge the slots as needed before re-assembly.
It is quite rigid, and "stinks". Set it aside where it will not get broken.
Now, the bottom-rear three 3-packs are exposed. Note the empty cell casing
(red arrow) that is used to keep the lower cells from shifting fore and aft.
There is a little rubber "spacer-cushion" on the front side to keep it from
rattling around. Mine pulls out with little effort, but others took more effort.
Next, notice the two connectors over the front cells. The charging connector
(green arrow) and the much smaller "Economy-Mode" switch (red arrow) that is not
mentioned in the manual. Be careful to not damage these connectors or their wires.
Note: My Economy-Mode switch is wired so that having the "1" end of the switch
rocker "depressed" (which usually indicates "ON") puts the scooter in the
limited-performance (but probably range-extending) mode.
Note: The yellow arrow points to a reflection of the overhead lights by
the glossy black finish on the frame. It is not a welding defect.
The next step is to remove the cover (green arrow) over the front two 3-packs.
The two wide, black cable-tie straps (red arrows) must be cut and removed.
Note: I bought some 36" replacement cable-tie straps to use during re-assembly.
I am told that 36" straps should be long enough.
Then, remove the rubber sheet and set it aside. The green arrow indicates the
side-to-side direction of the cover. This piece of rubber is not "stinky".
This exposes the six front cells. Looking at the right side, one needs to access
one terminal on the between-cell "strap" (red circle) that is under the right
frame. It looks like there is enough room to work there (carefully).
The VIN (yellow arrow) can be seen stamped into the top of the left frame member.
The green arrow indicates the heavy cable that ties these "front" cells to the
other (rear) bottom cells.
The left side is a little more difficult, with a little less clearance for
accessing a terminal of the between-cell "strap" (red ellipse).
Finally, all the cells are "exposed" for cell voltage measurement,
as might be needed as part of "proper" end-user maintenance
of the batteries in the scooter.
At this point it might (or might not) void the X-Treme battery warranty
if one connected one wire to each cell so that future battery maintenance
(measuring the cell voltages) could be done without all of this tedious
Of couse, one should continue to use the provided ThunderSky "smart" charger
(yes, it is smart, and seems to be "programmed" specifically for ThunderSky
batteries), and not modify the charger's charging process.
However, since measuring is the only way to monitor the health of the battery cells
before they are damaged, I hope that X-Treme will allow such measurments
to be made without voiding or impacting any part of their warranty.
Strange, I thought the X-Treme warranty required some kind of proper maintenance
of the scooter, but as I re-read the warranty now, I do not see that wording.
See the warranty at http://www.x-tremescooters.com/owning/warranty.html
This is the "Series Complete" message.
Apparently if one uses "Add new comment" rather than doing a "reply" to or a "quote" of
one of my posts, I will still be able to edit my original posts as needed to improve them
or to include answers to questions.
Thanks for your help.
Yes, I like pictures!
Later, I will do a series on re-assembly if I find any difficult steps.
Gary, this is an amazing tutorial you've posted. Thanks so much. I'm sure much of this applies to the 3500 as well. I expect I'll be referring back to this thread several times in the future. I wish X-treme themselves had such detailed maintenance instructions :-)
Thanks for your kind comment. I appreciate it.
I was looking for information on how to access the cells in my ZEV 7100 LR and stumbled onto this thread.
So happy I found it as your Xtreme XM-5000Li is very similar and your detailed instructions and photos make it very easy to follow, so I will book mark this for future reference.
Happy New Year and thanks for posting!
I have a ZEV 7100 LR and found this thread really helpful as your Xtreme XM 5000Li is very similar to the ZEV 5100, 6100, 7100 and eRider scooters.