Vectrix lithium replacement

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turok
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Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi guys!

It seems things got a lot quieter here huh :)

Guess most Vectrixes have been scrapped or are gathering dust somewhere..

Well I still got mine.. must be about 10 years now..

Still cruising around on the original NiMh pack!
But it is getting a bit saggy now.. It will usually let me down after 15 km or so. I’m on a small island, but 15 km is really low even for here..

Thinking of changing the pack, because the rest of the bike is actually still pretty good I must say..

I know there is the vectrixparts website selling packs, but I find them rather expensive, so I was wondering if anyone did a conversion lately..

I wouldn’t be afraid to build a pack myself!
I don’t need hige range really.. I’d be happy with 30 or 40 kms or so, so I hope shedding some weight actually.

Any ideas would be welcome, what cells could be candidates, where to find, what bms, what charger...

I’m in Greece, but I wouldn’t exclude ordering from around the world..

Tx in advance!
And let’s see who’s still active here ;)

reikiman
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Isn't building a pack with Leaf cells straightforward?

What resources are available for you in Greece? Or do you have to order from elsewhere in Europe?

- David Herron, The Long Tail Pipe, davidherron.com, 7gen.com, What is Reiki
- Electrified Electra To

MOSFETmeltdown
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Dirk, I second that, get ahold of 18 to 20 Nissan Leaf cells and check out a few conversion videos on YouTube and you'll be back in business.

martinwinlow
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hello!... from the Isle of Colonsay (Inner Hebrides, Scotland, UK). We only have 12 miles of single-track paved road so the relatively short range of the Vectrix is simply not an issue - besides which I have another 5 EVs here to choose from!

I brought my 2008 VX-1 up here when I moved home (and business - EVBitz.uk) here last November from just north of London. It has been off the road over winter but the sun is out most days now and it's finally warming up - so the Vectrix is coo-ing at me from under its cover...

I upgraded mine to 42 x Sinopoly 40Ah LiFePO4 cells a few years ago which give it a good 50 miles of range. It has an Elithion Lite BMS which has not been ideal, frankly, and is rather unnecessarily complicated for modern, much more reliable cells - IMO.

I've had a quick look on the same (rather good) Czech site I bought my cells from and they have these...

https://www.ev-power.eu/LiFePO4-small-cells/LiFePO4-High-Power-Cell-3-2V-20Ah-Alu-case-CE.html#tab2

... (20Ah, 3.2V - 178Hx28Wx71D - 0.65kg) cells for US$30 each. 42 of them would only half-fill (but very neatly with 8 rows across the width of the V's battery box and 5 - and a bit - rows long) the battery box - and leave plenty of room above for BMS etc. The pack would only weigh 25kg!

This would give you the range you need (~40km) for $1260 (+BMS)!

Martin.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts UK
evalbum.com/2092

turok
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi thanks for your replies..

I've looked at some options..

Been looking at some youtube videos also, but I don't find one that shows what you actually need..

Nissan leaf cells seem pretty hard to find around here.. Except maybe from Vectrixparts' website but they'll cost around 150 euros per piece, so I was looking at Martin's solution also.. Seams feasible..

A few questions:

- BMS: I don't know much about them..
on http://www.shop.vectrixparts.com/category/batteries-bms I see some options.. what is needed/best?

- Charger: I have the silver one now (don't remember now how it's called). Does one use the same charger, or do you need another one?
Edit: I see there is software available for the existing charger to go with Lithium technology

tx

ps: I also wanted to try something else: I actually have 2 NIMH packs (both in about the same condition). No dead cells, just getting saggy.
I run one of the Laird's latest firmwares, but they limit the low voltage cutoff point at 109 volts. Is there a way of lowering this? To say 102 Volts like it used to be? (I know it's not good for NIMH, but hey, I'm about to throw them out anyway..)

tx again

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

Zapdos
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I'm still riding mine, I ditched the NiMH packs long ago and the bike rides SOO much better with less weight. I just bought packs from HobbyKing and designed my own monitoring system. I've found that using 36 lithium cells in series provides a decent pack voltage. In my case I use 36Sx2P for 72 cells total. I've been buying 6S packs and connecting them together. At full charge 4.2V x 36 = 151.2V. The VX1 can kill these though if you aren't careful. Also changed the suspension on the back as it doesn't need to be so stiff with the less weight. This is not for the faint hearted though, Lithium batteries can be dangerous. I can take some photos if you're interested. This is not a recommendation though, it's completely experimental but I'm having fun with it and it gets me 16 miles to work up some steep hills....

turok
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Sure, I'd like to see some pics!

Which cells did you use?
If you say the vectrix can kill them.. you have them without BMS?

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

Cosmo
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi to all of you,
Ι am a newbie from Athens Greece looking for help (i just registered on the forum). I really dont know how to start a new discussion propably  i am not aIlowed to add/open a new discussion so i entered in yours as i think that my questions are similar to this topic. I had already a simple electric scooter with 24 lifepo4 60ah batteries but after i read a lot  about Vectrix  and  spending hours reading  the forum  i decided to buy one and try to convert it in lifepo4 version. I think that the forum is very helpfull  but i read so many things and i am really very confused. I just bought a used vectrix vx1 model 01/08 and i want to modify it  in a 42s lifepo4 60ah. I tried to revive the batttery pack but was already in very bad condition and i was able to go only 150meters with it. I ordered 42  lifepo4 60ah batteries. The bike has the ESD charger on board. I know that i need the peak pcan to usb cable. If anyone knows if someone sell a used cable it would be very helpfull as i want to buy one and the new is really expensive. I would like to know which is the right set up for me which  firmware sould i need  for
MC ICM and Charger?
I read a lot about Laird's and Dougas firmware  and for Antiscab projects and for the Prensel's magic box but more i read i am confused wich of the firmwares works for witch type of batteries (NiMh, li-ion, Leaf and lifepo4) and which is compatible for 42s lifepo4 configuration. I would like to keep the ESD charger and i would like the batteries to work between 3.66 and 2.5 volts as this are the safe parameters on battery specs. The max charging voltage should be 3.66*42=153.74v (154). I can buy (mini 1s balancing boards that can top balance the batttery (passive balance)at 3.66 volts without turning on and off the charger but i need a master module to stop the charger and to stop when a battery goes under 2.5 volts. Which firmware for ESD charger can work for my setup and what firmware for MC and ICM can work with it. I tried to open new discussion  but the forum says "You are not allowed to post new content in the forum".
Please help me to find the right conficuration for my vectrix and tell me how can i open a new discussion on this forum. Sorry if i dont use the corect way to ask for help.
Thanks

scooterguy
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi Cosmo

I have been using Dugas Engineering firmware and really l like it. It is free and Dave helped me with it a couple of times when I needed advice. You can plug in the number of cells and the high and low voltages and configure the charger and Motor Controller. Should work for you. I am using the ESD charger and it has worked fine but I use a timer set to one hour for every 15 miles traveled and top it up when I am present for the final charge because it has been reported that it can sometimes not shut off as it should. I have never had this happen but don't want to burn down the building !

Here is what I have done for batteries. I have had my VX1 for two years and originally used 36 Chevy Volt cells which fit perfectly and gave me a mixed driving range of 50 miles but I wanted to take longer trips so I ordered these LG lithium modules from this seller on ebay for a total of $1460 including shipping. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LG-Chem-Solar-Battery-Golf-Cart-EV-Car-16-Cells-2-5-kWh-each-64-volts/142700202089?ssPageName=STRK%3AME... They are 16 cells in series and 45 ah each so I used two in parallel and then wired the pairs in series for a 32 cell 118v nominal 90 ah pack. The last pic is of the old Chevy Volt batteries which are still as well balanced as when installed two years and 6000 miles ago with no BMS . Impressive ! I expect the new pack will be the same as the cells are all within a hundredth of a volt of each other. They fit two on their sides and two vertically and fill the battery box with a half inch on each side and top which I filled with plywood spacers. The stock plastics still fit. I tested a group of 3 cells in one module and they tested to over 46 ah at a .44 C discharge rate so they are in great shape. I ran wires to groups of two cells and up to terminal strips under the seat for checking and balancing the cells if the need arises. I would have liked to do this with all individual cells but only have access to one end of the modules so the wiring would have been problematic. I took my first ride today and rode 50 miles at 60 mph, then 25 miles at 45 mph and finally for 5 miles at 30 mph in 45 Degree F weather here in Portland OR. So, 80 miles total and the cells were at 3.4v each. The bike is stored in an unheated garage so in the summer I expect to get 100 miles of mixed riding
per charge! I am happy !!

HIMG_20181227_182244.jpg.jhhhh.jpgIMG_20181213_175836.jpgIMG_20181213_175816.jpgIMG_20181227_182115(1).jpgIMG_20181227_182244.jpgindex.jpgp_.jpg

R
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Nice Mod! beware with 32 S, efficiency drops dramatically, Try to increase to 36S. Mine is using 40S@4,15V, with TC charger.

scooterguy
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Thanks for your comment. It is pretty quiet on here for sure ! I would have preferred more cells but for economy reasons tried to get the most watt hours in the available space using stock automotive cell modules. I was running a used 36 cell Chevy Volt battery which tested to about 5K and gave me approx 50 miles in the summer mixed riding. The new 32 cell pack is about 10.6K and I get about 90 miles in mixed driving but it's only in the 40s Fahrenheit here in Portland OR at present so I expect a bit more range in the summer. I was able to achieve 70 miles at 60 mph the other day and still have enough energy for probably another 10 miles at reduced speed. In order to add more cells I would have to mount them outside the battery box somewhere which I would rather not do. The increased range has certainly added to the usefulness of the bike and I plan to add some charging capacity which will allow me to do some short touring trips this summer. Pretty good charging infrastructure here.

turok
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

I found a good price for 40x 60AH Li cells..
https://www.lifepo4-batteries.com/sale-10668724-top-quality-3-2v-66ah-lifepo4-battery-cells-low-moq-factory-3-2-volt-for-ev-elec...
Don't know if they're good, but the price is very attractive, they quoted me 1536 USD. Just their BMS seems expensive (another 1194 USD).
Anyone a better idea for the BMS?

"doing nothin = doing nothing wrong" is invalid when the subject is environment

R
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Re: Vectrix lithium replacement

Hi Turok, just opened your link and reAD: Place of Origin: SHENZHEN CHINA
don,t buy them.

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