reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

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slbaker
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Hi,

I just bought a 2007 Vectrix scooter. It seems to be in good shape, but
it had been in storage for several years and the battery is completely dead.
When I plug it in, nothing happens, no lights, nothing.

Is there a reset or debug procedure for reviving a completely dead battery/electrical system?

Thanks,
Scott

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HarryS
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

You need to bring your battery voltage up to at least 100V. Look for a regulated 0-150V DC power supply. Use a 3-5A diode and connect two large crocodile clips to connect to the pos and neg pole on the battery. Now gradually raise the voltage and charge the bike at anywhere from 1-3a until it reaches at least 100V. This may only take 30 min. Then the charger electronics will recognize the battery and take it from here. I found a suitable charger on EBAY. I have seen several listed recently for around $150. May be you can borrow one from a friend. If you are anywhere near Birmingham AL I can help.

slbaker
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Thanks Harry. I'm in Portland, Oregon, otherwise I'd stop by ;)

Do I need to disconnect the battery from the controller and the on-board charger before connecting the external DC power supply?

Anderson
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Joined: 10/11/2008
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

I recomend before going any further that you get heavy linesman electrical gloves and use them.

If for any reason somebody touches the two right places wich could turn out to be the two very wrong places it could kill the person who did that as for instance in this case by stoping there heart. That would be like touching the two battery posts that the battery cables go to with each bare hand and with the anderson connectors connected. The reason I say each bare hand is because in that case the electrical pathway is hands, arms, chest/heart so for that reason wear gloves and try to use only one hand at a time when possible to eliminate the heart pathway situation. Also obviously prior to working on the battery and other high voltage areas always unplug the two anderson connectors that will reduces most of the danger.

Wear googles to protect your eyes in case you drop metal objects on the battery that could cause sparks. Wrap your tools with electric tape, use a product like "Magnetic Socket Inserts" with your socket tools.

Not saftey related, always perform the inrush current limiter routine before connecting the anderson connectors together or else you could destroy the motor controller board.

1. Never have the Vectrix AC power cable pluged in at the same time your attempting to boost charge as mentioned above in post #1.

2. Check to see if the battery cables are connected to the motor controller and if for some reason there not then it's ok to boost charge only if the cable ends are not loose or are taped off so they can't create a short. Note it would be better if the cables were already correctly attatched to the battery when the voltage is lower and safer to work with.

3. Check if the the anderson connectors are connected together.

A. If they aren't this is good news your battery might be in good condition but then you must reconnect them before attempting to charge the battery or else it could damage the motor controller. Now and always before reconnecting the anderson connectors together you must perform the inrush current limiter routine that also includes connecting them together.

B. If they are then proceed with boost charging.

HarryS
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Points: 342
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

No, I recommend that you leave the battery connected. This way you need not worry about inrush. I usually wear just silicon elastic gloves, you may double them up for good measure. Just use common sense around that battery. The good news is that of you measure the voltage with a voltmeter, which I suggest you do, it probably is very low and not dangerous at all. It may read as low as just a few volts if the battery has been sitting without charge for years. Once you have it charged, make sure that you take it easy for the first ten charges or so. Only drive a few miles at a time, then charge again. Also make sure that you get the latest firmware on the bike. It will ensure a healthier battery life.
Best wishes

slbaker
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Points: 61
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

I finally got around to removing the plastic covers and revealing the battery boxes.
It has definitely been apart before .. I don't know if that's good or bad.
I measured the battery voltage at 42V. An initial inspection of the battery cells looks OK.
I did not find any bulging or heat damaged cells (but of course I can only see the top layer of cells).

I'm getting mixed stories from different sources: some people say that a bulk charge
to 100V is OK while others say I need to take the packs apart and charge each cell individually.
So now I'm not sure what I should do ..

Mik
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

slbaker wrote:

I finally got around to removing the plastic covers and revealing the battery boxes.
It has definitely been apart before .. I don't know if that's good or bad.
I measured the battery voltage at 42V. An initial inspection of the battery cells looks OK.
I did not find any bulging or heat damaged cells (but of course I can only see the top layer of cells).

I'm getting mixed stories from different sources: some people say that a bulk charge
to 100V is OK while others say I need to take the packs apart and charge each cell individually.
So now I'm not sure what I should do ..

After such a long time in a deeply discharged state, I would recommend to slowly charge with an external charger until the battery is full.

Start with no more than about 0.3A; you can charge the battery to full by continuing this for about 150hrs....or increase the charge rate to no more than 3A. But, at 3A you need to cool the battery once it approaches full state, or it may overheat.

To keep the scooter safe (or rather keep people safe), you could connect diode-protected cables from positive and negative end of the battery and route them into the boot. That will only allow to put current into the battery, but not to let it out. Then close the battery box up before charging the battery. This will also allow to use the plenum impellers to effectively cool the batteries (just connect a 12VDC (5A) source to them).

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This information may be used entirely at your own risk.

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antiscab
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Points: 1674
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

HarryS wrote:

Now gradually raise the voltage and charge the bike at anywhere from 1-3a until it reaches at least 100V. This may only take 30 min.

It usually only takes be around a minute to get the voltage up, you don't have to put very much charger in at all to get a nimh battery up to 1V

charging at under 3A until the pack is full is a good idea however

generally from packs that have self dicharged to 0V, I usually find many dead cells that have been held reversed for a long period of time.

I would try and get some spare cells on hand ahead of time

Matt

__________________

Daily Ride:
2007 Vectrix, modified with 42 x Thundersky 60Ah
Vectrix 60Ah Lithium Tyres Fuel Registration Insurance cycle analyst 2 x TC Charger & MC
conversion
Spent so far: $5800 + $7000 + $2040 + $1200 + $425 + $800 + $140 + $3000
Cost to do it again: $1000 + $3800 + $2040 + $1200 + $425 + $800 + $140 + $1500 (lasts longer)
Cost for a Petrol bike:$6000 + + $1440 + $7560 + $1000 + $1600 + $4000 servicing
Total spent: $20405
Total to do again: $10905
Total to have used a petrol bike: $21600
Total distance travelled so far: 102'120km

Other vehicles:
2008 Mazda 2 conversion
2009 Blade Electron
1997 Prius - plugin hybrid mod

slbaker
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

The pack is showing signs of life !!

I used an adjustable power supply to slowly charge the pack to 100V and then used the internal charger to take it from there.
It's currently still charging, but things are looking very promising, it's up to about 148V now.
With any luck, I'll take it for a short spin tomorrow :)

slbaker
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

I took the bike for a short spin today, and it works great !! :)

HarryS
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Points: 342
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Congratulations, and you learned a lot about your bike already.

CO2
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Congratulation

R
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Congratulations!
How many km do you get per charge?

martinwinlow
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Joined: 03/26/2012
Points: 225
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Hi Scott,

(What happened to the door stop - forum/12412 -?)

If you do a search on VIFV you will find plenty of help for this problem. Assuming the pack is recoverable - 'all' you need to do is bring the pack volts up to about 100V with an adjustable power supply or similar after which the stock charger will accept it and charge as normal. I don't know how likely it is that the pack will be recoverable as there is a continuous 'parasitic' drain on the pack from the charger/controller etc even when the ignition is switched off which, if not disconnected before storage, may well have completely destroyed the pack.

In which case it may be time for a lithium conversion, perhaps!

MW

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Herts UK
evalbum.com/2092

roperld
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Will someone give the exact details about how to remove the cover of the battery box?

elevatorguy
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Joined: 07/12/2012
Points: 87
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Some video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GERbQs1k9ic&list=PLCFDD8780E3FBEFD5&index=2 Important part is break it loose first and remove the rear side first, it is a tight fit. Be careful around the batteries, high voltage can kill.

martinwinlow
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Points: 225
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

"Will someone give the exact details about how to remove the cover of the battery box?"

Why not just look it up in the service manual?

If you haven't got it, just do a search on this forum for 'vectrix service manual" and you'll find a link on another site to a (big) word document. MW

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Herts UK
evalbum.com/2092

retrodog
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

HarryS wrote:

You need to bring your battery voltage up to at least 100V. Look for a regulated 0-150V DC power supply. Use a 3-5A diode and connect two large crocodile clips to connect to the pos and neg pole on the battery. Now gradually raise the voltage and charge the bike at anywhere from 1-3a until it reaches at least 100V. This may only take 30 min. Then the charger electronics will recognize the battery and take it from here. I found a suitable charger on EBAY. I have seen several listed recently for around $150. May be you can borrow one from a friend. If you are anywhere near Birmingham AL I can help.

So... anybody got a good charger they can reccomend for this. I searched on Amazon and Ebay and keep getting lots of non-related stuff.

HarryS
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Joined: 10/08/2008
Points: 342
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Just email me. I have one I will sell for cheap since I no longer have a Vectrix. It I 3Ah 0-150V DC?
I

Bikemad
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

If you have the Silver ESD charger with the easily accessible battery conector plug, it should be possible to use a pair of constant current 300mA LED power supplies to trickle charge the battery without needing direct access the battery itself:

Check out this post for more details on accessing the ESD Battery supply connector.

Check out this thread for more information on the LED power supply setup shown above.

Alan

maxpowers
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Joined: 11/03/2016
Points: 17
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Hello everyone, sorry for reviving an oldish thread but I'm unable to start a thread. I just picked up a 2007 VX-1 for $400 that's been sitting for about 2 years. The bike itself looks amazing and untouched or modified. I measured the battery through the connector under the fender and it read 1.1V. I'd like to bring the battery up to 100v to try and get some kind of power going and was looking into a battery recovery charger. By any chance would anyone be selling one? I'm not much to put one together myself seeing as I don't want to screw anything up. I'm in Los Angeles too. Thank in advance.

Sunder
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Points: 32
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

No worries about the thread hijacking - Everyone needs to do it for their first post. I just did 6 weeks ago.

You can get this charger for $15, customised to your voltage needs:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/25-alloy-shell-240w-lifepo4-li-ion-lead-acid-battery-ebike-charger-ecitypower-ch...

It's power limited, so don't order it for 100v - order it for the correct voltage for your pack, and the voltage will drop until the pack voltage rises. It's very cheap, but quite slow at only 240w. (My battery would take about 12 hours to charge using that). The other option is that you could go a decent sized charger for around $130 + shipping, and use it as your permanent charger when you finish.

Either way, watch out for postage. It will send you reeling six ways to Sunday. Might be a good time to see if there's anything else interesting on the site that you want.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

maxpowers
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Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

Sunder wrote:

No worries about the thread hijacking - Everyone needs to do it for their first post. I just did 6 weeks ago.

You can get this charger for $15, customised to your voltage needs:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/25-alloy-shell-240w-lifepo4-li-ion-lead-acid-battery-ebike-charger-ecitypower-ch...

It's power limited, so don't order it for 100v - order it for the correct voltage for your pack, and the voltage will drop until the pack voltage rises. It's very cheap, but quite slow at only 240w. (My battery would take about 12 hours to charge using that). The other option is that you could go a decent sized charger for around $130 + shipping, and use it as your permanent charger when you finish.

Either way, watch out for postage. It will send you reeling six ways to Sunday. Might be a good time to see if there's anything else interesting on the site that you want.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

Thank you. It looks like this charger plugs in directly into the battery port under the fender without splicing any cables or adding any relays. Is that correct? Also, it looks as though there's only 2 choices, either 90-132VAC or 200-264VAC. Any recommendations?

Sunder
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Points: 32
Re: reset or debug procedure for reviving a dead battery ?

You get to specify what you want on the DC end of the charger, but it's unlikely they'll have whatever plug it is under the fender. (Never looked, myself). The most common ones are like Andersons, XT90s, or 4mm bullets. I guess you could ask for bare wires and put on a plug yourself.

As for the voltage, that's the AC side of the charger - I.e. the bit that goes into your wall. I believe the US has both 120v and 240v, but 120 is more common.

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