Vectrix Fuses

Mik's picture

A book page to collect and discuss information about the Vectrix semiconductor fuse.

The original fuse installed in a 2007 Vectrix VX1 was a Littelfuse L25S125.

http://www.littelfuse.com/part/L25S125.html

This is probably also true for the "2008 model", but needs to be verified by having an actual look under the "hood" of one of them!

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Re: Vectrix Fuses

This document contains a table of possible alternative replacement fuses:

http://www.cooperbussmann.com/pdf/7a24afee-a2d6-45b9-8017-20d970806e06.pdf

Re: Vectrix Fuses

This is a link to current characteristic curves for one of the alternative fuses, a Bussman FWX fuse:

http://www.cooperbussmann.com/pdf/a435785e-651f-49ad-9eb8-26f0483e36ef.pdf

What does it all mean and how does it relate to the maximum allowable inrush current?

Re: Vectrix Fuses

They replaced mine with a Cooper Bussmann FWX-200A high-speed fuse, which is rated at 200 amps. You can order them from Grainger Industrial Supply (part #4XF01) for $61.45 USD.

Re: Vectrix Fuses

Magendanz wrote:

They replaced mine with a Cooper Bussmann FWX-200A high-speed fuse, which is rated at 200 amps. You can order them from Grainger Industrial Supply (part #4XF01) for $61.45 USD.

This is very interesting. Do you know if this was officially sanctioned by Vectrix?

Re: Vectrix Fuses

I'm back on the road!! Thanks David, Mik, X-Vectrix, et al; literally could NOT HAVE ACCOMPLISHED WITHOUT THIS FORUM! Finished replacing original 125 Amp Littlefuse with Bussmann 200 Amp per this thread today. Price is still $61.45 at WW Grainger in US. (December '09) Very lucky, my local store had ONE left in stock yesterday. Mik, your battery and Controller pictures were invaluable. Big thank you! My lovely and understanding wife, Deborah (who lets me park and charge in the cool living room during our ridiculously hot Summers) helped me pull and then replace the rear battery assembly. Definitely a TWO-PERSON job. Again Mik, your pictures showing the 47kg (103 pound) weight of the rear pack allowed me to know ahead of time NOT to attempt myself. Could have been a disaster otherwise.

Yes - one MUST remove the rear pack to get proper access to the Controller for removal/replacement of the main fuse. (Yes Mik - a quick ohm meter check confirmed original 125A was blown) BTW - I discovered by noticing the indent/bend of the perforated Controller Cover that Vectrix assembler had dropped the spacer on one of the three screws...found at the bottom of Controller cover. (Re-assembled properly)

I used an 11-Watt (US) globe 120 VAC for ICL, and it worked perfectly. Wearing decent rubber gloves, I was able to do at NEG terminal with Anderson already connected. 11-Watt lit up, cycled key to on - then off, 11-Watt went gradually dark. I was able to get an alligator clip (for ICL globe) to stay on the NEG female thread on final battery connection as I held the (NEG) spade lug on top and slid over center while simultaneously removing "gator" clip from ICL. No sparks. Tightened lug while wearing gloves - done!

When I turned the key ON the 17-segment battery indicator on dash was clear (zero). So I just took for local ride until RED battery light came on several times, and I could only ride up to about 40kmh (25mph). Got back home to garage, plugged in. Charger mode showing 124 VDC. Now (about 40 min into charge) seeing three bars and 139V at 23˚C on display.

Will keep you posted.

If I can have the latitude for a bit of commentary: seeing the main parts and batteries while replacing the main fuse, as long as us owners can get parts, especially the Charge and Motor Controller boards, should they fail, I can foresee NO PROBLEM to stay on the road. Ha...could easily put in application for Vectrix repair tech. with my experience this week :-)

Glen O'
Arizona, USA

Re: Vectrix Fuses

dvdaudio wrote:

...
...
11-Watt lit up, cycled key to on - then off, 11-Watt went gradually dark. ...
...

Very interesting detail.

Eyeinthesky reported the same, the ICL globe would just stay on indefinitely until the key was turned on and off, then it would go out. (That was after he caused a big spark and a pop not using an ICL.)

I do not understand it and it makes me wonder where that current goes when the light stays on...it cannot be the capacitors, they would have to fill up.

Is is possible for an IGBT to be stuck in "closed" position (or whatever the proper equivalent term might be)?

Could that be what causes the "fuse failure with POP-sound"? Or what is it......

Re: Vectrix Fuses

found a relatively cheap price for the Bussman Fuse:

http://www.rell.com/Pages/Product-Details.aspx?productId=272992

I didn't order it yet, although I didn't get any message from my dealer about availability of the fuse yet. (hope it won't take weeks)

If my bike was no longer under warranty, it would already be fixed, I 'd bet :-)

For now, I got back on a Yamaha 125CC ICE bike, and I can tell you it really, really, REALLY sux!
It rattles, smells, is noisy and expensive to operate :-(

I had almost forgotten all that.. GOD I miss my V!

Re: Vectrix Fuses

Hey Turok,

Thanks for posting source for main fuse. About half the price I paid in 2009 thru WW Grainger. I trust I won't need in the future with the Bussman 200Amp.

However, I was looking at your post, then trying to find thread about you not having your "V" on the road. Was this due to blowing main fuse? Also, do you have a warranty where you live? I don't think we have anything here in the States yet. Seems fuzzy about Vectrix USA pulling out of bankruptcy re-organization. Sorry to put on this on wrong topic area.

Glen
Arizona, US

Re: Vectrix Fuses

Hey Glen,

You can read about it in this thread:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7630-differences-between-2007-and-2008

I thought I had a 200A fuse, but I'd still be riding then, wouldn't I? :-)

Re: Vectrix Fuses

I still have the 150A fuse in the Vectux which I put in after repeated 125A fuse failures.

Could it be that they went over the top with moving to a 200A fuse? I am concerned that the finance department might have unduly influenced the decision which fuse to use. The fuse failures were a massive financial drain. Putting in a higher rated fuse would prevent unnecessary fuse failures, but will a 200A fuse reliably do the job it is designed to do?

If a short occurs when the battery is near empty, or in a Vectrix with a damaged battery, then the 200A rating of the fuse might never get exceeded even if the battery is shorted through a frying motor controller. And that could mean a fire and/or total destruction of the battery due to a failure that the original fuse was designed to prevent.

What do the electrical engineers reading this think about the best fuse option for the Vectrix VX1 with standard NiMH battery?

The location of the fuse is in my opinion poorly chosen. It should have a mid-battery fuses and ICL. I'll ponder the options when I have the impeller housing off again soon.

My guess is that a 125A or 150A fuse located in a relatively easily accessible location, i.e. between the two ends of the Andersons connector, is safer than a 200A fuse in the original location. Appropriate use of a ICL every time is of course needed whichever fuse you use, because you can also damage the capacitors on the motor controller board if you don't.

Re: Vectrix Fuses

I decided to install a 175A fuse and have one on order now.

That is half-way between my initial (unauthorised) increase to a 150A fuse and the later (semi-official??) change to a 200A fuse by Vectrix.

Look at the IxIxt ( I squared times t ) values of these fuses and let us know what you think about the most appropriate fuse for the Vectrix, assuming that all inrush current is appropriately suppressed by skilled use of an ICL.

This is just at the level of your average conspiracy theory, not based in scientific fact or much experimental results, but: I believe that the increase of fuse specs to 200A from 125A was motivated more by a desire to reduce costs than by following good electrical engineering principles.
EE's on here, please comment!

125A might IMNSHO even be the appropriate fuse rating (that's why they chose it initially!), but then reality (of incompetent and/or insufficiently trained people having to service bikes without access to ICL's) created a new reality, which killed Vectrix along with the battery failures: Fuses damaged due to transient/inrush currents during battery reconnect without proper use of an ICL!

There are two risks (probably more) important here:

1) Fuse failure in traffic due to no good reason, potentially causing injury or death.

2) Failure of the fuse to open when it would need to open during an actual fault condition, potentially causing permanent shorting, fire (with injury and death possibly due to setting a house on fire as a result, or after a severe road accident).

Take your pick! I'm unwilling to risk the 125A fuse in traffic; I have not had any problems with a 150A Bussman fuse for about 7000km; and I think the 200A fuse increases the risk 2) out of proportion to the reduction of risk 1).

Let's see if the EE's feel like chiming in on this! That would be most appreciated, because as I wrote above, this is just an opinion, without proper base in scientific knowledge of facts.

But I believe, I believe, ....

Re: Vectrix Fuses

Why not install** a 150 amp circuit breaker in series with the 200 amp fuse, somewhere easy to access, so you can flip it back on if /when it trips. That would give you a two tier protection and save you from replacing the more expensive and hard to access fuse. Normally unless there was some catastrophic short the fuse would never be blown since CB would trip first, and since the CB is not damaged when tripping it elminates costly replacements. Just match the voltage and the 175 amps at the parts store to get the CB you need.

**(if possible logistically , I know little about the physical configuration of the vectra, so I am just speaking from an electrical only view; also other user states 150 fuse has not blown since replaced some time ago, the amperage is probably ok)

Re: Vectrix Fuses

Regarding using the circuit breaker... wouldn't you still need to do the ICL thingy? Apparently you should not just reconnect the power without charging the caps to avoid a sudden power draw. Or is that a different part of the system that's not effected?

Re: Vectrix Fuses

I have a question about the FWX-200A fuse. I see that there are two different packages, both marked as the same part number -- the one that looks wrong to me is of course less expensive, and therefore attracts people like me... who also have a habit ending up with the wrong part.

Here's the one that looks correct.
Correct looking fuse

Here's one for sale on eBay and other places with the same part number and description (and a lot less money). But it doesn't "look right"!. Various listing show it as FWX-200A, although the stamped label doesn't FWX-200 (no A). Been to the Cooper Bussmann site, can't find a spec that calls this one out.
Is it OK to use it? Will it even fit and not short out something?
Screen shot 2012-06-11 at 11.46.57 PM.png

I can't seem to determine if they are the same or not and just some kind of different packaging or revision.

What am I missing?
--Scotter

Re: Vectrix Fuses

Scotter wrote:

I have a question about the FWX-200A fuse. ....
...
I can't seem to determine if they are the same or not and just some kind of different packaging or revision.

What am I missing?
--Scotter

The smaller fuse is the wrong one.

Could it be that it is rated for AC only?

Who Killed the Electric Car? Essential documentary explaining what happened the last time electric cars were killed
Customize This