The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

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The Laird
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Joined: 07/29/2009
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The Latest Developments for the NiMH battery installation
(using Modified Software for the ESD.Charger)

It is long overdue, but finally, the Laird's Team have arrived.

The Laird's Team comprises: 'The Laird' himself, 'Hybride' of the V forum and 'ofx210p' also of the V forum.
Credit is also due to D.I.Y. who produced the I.C.M. file

We have done what others have done and more besides - and all free of charge to YOU the end user.

New Modified software is now available that provides the following features.

An Iso file containing all necessary software and information for running the Scooter Diags system.

Charger files with;-

1. Accurate Battery Voltage displayed in the old 'Est Miles' display position.

2. The option to use a file with a one hour 'cool off' at the end of charge to provide a
measure of equalisation. These are identified by the '+eq' tag on the file name.

3. A file for use where the temperature sensors are no longer used / fitted. (No more flashing lights)

Motor controller files for NiMH:

A new speed of 70Mph is now incorporated in the Motor Controller File.

Regenerative braking is reduced at high battery voltages to prevent 'overcharge damage occurring'.
Limited regen is available until the battery voltage drops below 140Volts.

The low voltage cut-off levels are set to protect the battery from damage through over- discharge.
It is now impossible to discharge the battery lower than 120Volts. This does mean that the maximum power
is reduced as the battery becomes depleted. This also serves as a very adequate warning that the 'fuel tank'
is getting towards the empty mark.

Motor controller files for Lithium:

So far the Motor controller for lithium is for the 'Leaf' conversions of 36Cells (18 Modules) and
38Cells (19Modules). It is hoped to produce M.C. files for other variants where some standardisation
of cell count / chemistry etc exists.

A new speed of 70Mph is now incorporated in the Motor Controller File.

Regenerative braking is reduced at high battery voltages to prevent 'overcharge damage occurring'.
Limited regen is available until the battery voltage drops below 150Volts (for the 38Cell set-up) OR 142Volts
(for the 36Cell set-up).

The low voltage cut-off levels are set to protect the battery from damage through over- discharge.
It is now impossible to discharge the battery lower than 130Volts (38Cedll set-up) or 123Volts (36Cell set-up).
This does mean that the maximum power is reduced as the battery becomes depleted. This also serves as a
very adequate warning that the 'fuel tank' is getting towards the empty mark.

I.C.M:

We recommend that you also install D.I.Y's ICM_1708 as this provides for:

Hazard warning lights
Throttle lock – (a pretend 'cruise control' but very effective)
A horn without the silly 'chirp'

All files have an associated ReadMe which lists the file's purpose. PLEASE read the README before using the file.

All in all, a lot of improvement on our beloved (or is it really Be-hated?) Vectrix.

If you are in any doubt about anything in the above or if you lack knowledge or experience in this type of activity,
THEN DO NOT ATTEMPT TO 'PLAY' WITH THE RE-PROGRAMMING, instead get someone to help and guide you through the process.

Finally, We would like to remind you that our scripts and work have been a record of our attempts to reduce damage
to the battery and create improvements to the Vectrix scooter. We have told you what we are doing and why we are doing it
and how we are doing it. We are not advising you to do anything, instead We are offering you the opportunity to imitate our
work if you chose to do so.

Access to the files and information discussed above is via the link:

https://app.box.com/s/8z1c1b9009abwyv5r2sl044uvjw1kwev

If you find any errors or problems with the files (please read the readMe and compare behaviour to that)
Then let us know and we will endeavor to solve the problem.

Please don't start having 'good ideas' or making 'requests' it's been a long hard slog to get here and we need a break.

Keep smiling folks,

The Laird's Team.

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Sacko
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Joined: 07/09/2015
Points: 120
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Wow, thank you all :)

Just installed the new controller, charger and ICM FW.

Kocho
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Joined: 03/21/2014
Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

A BIG Thank You!

Missing file(s)? I only see a single motor controller file uploaded there for the Li: version "C" is there along with a readme, but "D" has 0 files in its respective folder. And there are no Li ESD charger files uploaded. Perhaps intentional, but if not, please add these files.

Kocho
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Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Also a question: why did you pick 123V for the low voltage protection on the 18 module pack? If I understand correctly from the write-up above, the bike will stop when 123V is reached (quote: "impossible to discharge the battery lower than 123Volts" for the 36 cell set-up.

That seems to leave about 20+ Ah of unused capacity in the battery (out of the available 60Ah or so max capacity), if we are to trust the discharge curve here: http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72&Itemid=631

Is the discharge curve overly optimistic? Or am I reading it wrong? Not being terribly experienced in the matter, I want to make sure I understand the logic and I think others will find the explanation useful too.

123V for 18 modules translates to 123V/36 cells = 3.41V, which lines-up to around 20Ah remaining, per the discharge curve.

From my own experience I know that when I get to about 130V, we enter the steep right-hand side of the discharge curve, and the voltage begins to drop pretty quickly after that point. I think 123V is a very good place to dramatically reduce power (should start even earlier to gently reduce it, probably, to make the rider aware). But if at 123V there is still 20Ah reserve left in the battery, why stop? Shouldn't the absolute lowest voltage cutoff be lower, perhaps in the 115V+ range? That 115V would leave around 10AH reserve capacity at around the 3.2V per cell level, so still safe for the cells but those 10Ah from 123V to 115V would let the rider get home or to a charging station at a reduced speed?

Thanks!

Bikemad
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Kocho,

I think you must be reading the chart incorrectly. You have to run a vertical line from where the discharge curve crosses the 3.5V horizontal line

If you look at the blue vertical line it meets the horizontal black 3.6V line where the discharge voltage is ~3.6V, and you can see that the top of this line meets the diagonal Ah line at ~58 Ah:

So if the cut off level was 3.6V per cell you would only be leaving 4Ah unused, not 20+ Ah.

The 3.5V limit per cell that Sandy has used should only leave about 3Ah unused in the strongest cell (and probably a lot less in the weakest) which will hopefully allow for any slight imbalance in the individual cells.

I think this amount of safety margin is both sensible and in most cases essential, as the majority of leaf cell users do not appear to be using a BMS to protect the individual cells, and these cells are not cheap.

I'd much prefer a slightly shorter range and good cells than maximum range at the expense of permanently damaging any weak cells.

Alan

Kocho
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Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Alan,

Thanks for the explanation, I was reading the chart differently, drawing a horizontal line off the discharge curve towards the right to the Ah vertical scale (instead of a vertical up towards the yellow triangle diagonal and then to the right to the capacity vertical). The LV cutoff value dos make sense this way.

Bikemad wrote:

Kocho,

I think you must be reading the chart incorrectly. You have to run a vertical line from where the discharge curve crosses the [voltage] horizontal line.

Alan

EDIT: I don't know the upper charge voltage limits of "team Laird's" Li charger software (I've heard it is 150V). If the same logic applies there, it seems the resulting 4.16V per cell when charged to the 150V pack max. seems a bit less cautions than their LV limit selection. Wouldn't it take very little above that 150V to overcharge a cell? Just 1V total pack voltage over that will bring the individual cell voltage to the max 4.2V rating - an even slightly disbalanced/lower capacity cell will get overcharged at that point. May not necessarily kill it immediately, but will shorten its life. In my setup I am charging only to 146-147V pack voltage, which corresponds to 4.05 to 4.08V, which leaves about 5-7Ah unused on the top end (a good buffer for regen charging as well as to combat slight top-balance disbalances between cells). And definitely good for the longevity of the pack. Also, given that the charger may be wrongly measuring the pack voltage, I suggest one should manually and precisely monitor the actual pack voltage vs. the charger-measured pack voltage, so that this little margin of error on the top is not exceeded due to the charger wrongly measuring the voltage... On my charger, depending on where in the charge cycle I am, I've measured from almost exactly matching up to almost 2 volts difference between what the charger reports and what the actual voltage on the pack is (luckily, my charger measures higher than the actual, so it is not accidentally overcharging). Thoughts on this?

Jonathanm
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Joined: 09/09/2008
Points: 141
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Where would we be without you guys? - look forward to trying out the autospeed/throttle control + nice also to have the warning lights...

Thanks for all your hard work!

Jonathan

Bikemad
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Jonathanm wrote:

look forward to trying out the autospeed/throttle control

Jonathan

Having to hold the headlamp flash button for a couple of seconds to engage the throttle hold can be a bit embarrasing when there is oncoming traffic or you are cruising along at a steady speed with other vehicles in front of you.
A separate switch to activate the function would make it more usable, but that obviously wouldn't be very easy to implement.

An additional switch contact built into the indicator switch which would operate throttle hold by holding the indicator cancel button in would have been ideal, but I don't know if there are any spare connections on the ICM to accept additional input signals.

I'm sure that someone familiar with the operation of the ICM and suitable programming ability could come up with a better solution, but I expect it would be a bit more involved than just a simple firmware update.

Kocho, this is what the graph should look like with the cut-off point at 3.41V per cell:

This indicates a used capacity of ~59.7Ah which is pretty good for a 60Ah rated cell (but it still leaves 5.3Ah unused if you compare it against the indicated 65Ah capacity obtained if discharged right down to 2.5V.)

Alan

Kocho
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Yes, the 123V LV cutoff is a good number IMO too.

Would you mind posting the diagram for the 150V pack voltage (4.17V per cell) level? I want to make sure I'm interpreting the chart right on the top end too. Would the line go down from the discharge curve to its intersection with the diagonal and then horizontal to the capacity, where it would intersect at somewhere very-very close to 0Ah?

Bikemad wrote:

Kocho, this is what the graph should look like with the cut-off point at 3.41V per cell:

This indicates a used capacity of ~59.7Ah which is pretty good for a 60Ah rated cell (but it still leaves 5.3Ah unused if you compare it against the indicated 65Ah capacity obtained if discharged right down to 2.5V.)

Alan

Bikemad
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Here's the discharge graph showing the amended starting point of 4.17V:

Unfortunately, the resolution of the graph is not high enough to produce precise readings, but I reckon you would loose about 200mAh of capacity (0.2Ah) if only charged to 4.17V per cell instead of the maximum 4.2V per cell.

The 150V I recall being mentioned was in relation to the voltage at which the regen current is reduced, not the charging voltage, and I also believe this was for the 19 module (38 cell) leaf conversion not the 18 modules (36 cells).

Alan

Kocho
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Thanks! That's how I read it too.

I was referring to the charger's max target voltage (not the regen voltage, which is controlled not by the charger but by the motor controller). His regen voltage limits seem fine to me. The charger target pack voltage is not mentioned in the Laird's post and I do not know for sure, but have seen references to it being 150V from folks who have his software (for the 18 module setup).

My consideration is that 150V charger target pack voltage (4.17V per cell) is too close to the max. rated voltage/capacity. That corresponds almost to the full rated capacity of the battery, pretty much. In my setup I am charging to 146V (4.06V per cell), which is some 5-6Ah or so below rated max capacity, leaving more room for error/protection from accidental overcharging, should cells go slightly off balance or if the charger does not measure the pack's voltage correctly. And is supposedly better for the longevity of the battery, not being charged to near 100% every time. The OEM MC firmware also limits regen current above 144-145V or so, which seems fine too.

Bikemad wrote:

Here's the discharge graph showing the amended starting point of 4.17V:

Unfortunately, the resolution of the graph is not high enough to produce precise readings, but I reckon you would loose about 200mAh of capacity (0.2Ah) if only charged to 4.17V per cell instead of the maximum 4.2V per cell.

The 150V I recall being mentioned was in relation to the voltage at which the regen current is reduced, not the charging voltage, and I also believe this was for5 the 19 module (38 cell) leaf conversion not the 18 modules (36 cells).

Alan

israndy
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Bikemad wrote:

Having to hold the headlamp flash button for a couple of seconds to engage the throttle hold can be a bit embarrasing when there is oncoming traffic

The obvious fix for that is the high beam is not activated until the switch is quickly released. Since holding that switch means cruise and flashing the switch flashes the high beam, if you quickly flash the switch the software would then flash the high beam, if you hold it would ignore changing the high beam and go straight for cruise control.

Not that I am volunteering to code it, just if the people who code it are looking for suggestions...

-Randy

__________________

Also a new 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight, and a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee
RVs: a 40' Airstream Sky Deck, a 23' LTV Serenity RV
EVs: a 2012 Mitsubishi i-Miev and two 2007 Vectrix VX1 motorcycles, and in line for the new Tesla Model 3

The Laird
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Joined: 07/29/2009
Points: 264
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Hello Good People,

Well, I was hoping that there might be the odd word of gratitude and there is, thank you Sacko and you too Johnathan and Bikemad.

I was also hoping that everyone would read the scripts which explain everything. Alas, it was not to be.

Kocho, in his usual lunatic style has managed to add FOUR posts / replies. Not one of them is in any way constructive.

Indeed,Following his 'A BIG thank you' he has whined that there are 'files missing' He has complained that the files don't do what he wants as he wants it. His comment "And there are no Li ESD charger files uploaded. Perhaps intentional, but if not, please add these files" is indicative of his selfish, greedy, grabbing, ungrateful mentality.

Kocho, what is 'missing' is missing because it is not ready for publication. As for "Please add these files" perhaps I should suggest that you Piss off and write your own files if you believe that you can do better.

Kocho, get off my back. Stop writing your irritating posts. Stop being so bloody selfish, in fact ideally, stop breathing.

Now, for the normal folk out there, Thank you for your kind words. We will publish more files as and when they are ready. We prefer to get it right first time and that takes time, testing and checking. There are some leaf charger files about but they do not benefit from the latest improvements, therefore we don't want to publish those.

I hope that the 70Mph top speed is giving you the bike you want. There is no more speed available, the motor is capable of 74Mph at it's design maximum RPM. It has been tested at 74MPH. The bike's electronics doesn't like it, the decoder doesn't like it, and it is not practical to issue a higher speed file than 70Mph.

We shall have the motor controller for the Leaf 36cell (18Module) variation on line soon and we shall follow that with the charger files. We hope also to have some charger and Motor controller files for one or two other lithium conversions BUT there's a lot of variations and we need to decide which to work on and publish.

Talking of what /how much to publish. We had hoped that folk would download only the files that they wish to use for the bike and local conditions where they operate. We are aware that there have been in excess of 150 downloads in the last twenty four hours. Many of those have been total downloads of the whole Vectrix folder.

May we advise you now. The use of inappropriate files in your bike WILL have a detrimental effect. Only a complete asshole (Kocho comes to mind) would experiment with different files in his/her bike. The files have all been written for specific bikes, batteries and geographic locations. Only one set of files will suit your bike, ALL other files will not suit your bike and WILL cause you grief.

The Laird's Team accepts no responsibility for anything relating to these files and their use. You have downloaded the files based on your decision. You will use them based also on your decisions and judgment. WE accept no responsibility for what YOU do with these files how you use or abuse them or anything that results from your use of these files.

We were rightly apprehensive concerning how to do the distribution. In the end, we decided that you are all adults and should therefore be able to make sensible decisions over the use of these files. I sincerely hope that we have judged the situation correctly. There will, of course, be the odd lunatic (Kocho again comes to mind) who will try everything in as many combinations as he can, in the vain and stupid hope that he can do better than we have achieved with the files. It is a thought that saddens us but, Am I my brother's keeper? (Correct answer = NO).

Please do take care. Please only use the files that were written for your particular bike/battery combination. Please read all of the ReadMe's and information files, And PLEASE only post on the forum if it really is necessary. The Laird has largely given up reading the forum posts in general, there is too much irrelevant chatter and The Laird has a life to get on with.

Oh, mustn't forget, The best way to deal with Kocho's outpourings is to ignore his stupidity and refuse to answer his silly questions and the points he raises. The Laird will not be answering any of Kocho's crap in the future and hasn't answered any of the past ones for some considerable time and won't offer any answers to those on this topic either. This policy will not change. (But I just couldn't resist offending him one last time)

I hope that no-one is offended by this post except Kocho, who deserves all the offense that we can muster.

Best wishes to you all and we hope that you enjoy the new 'toys'.

The Laird

Jonathanm
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Points: 141
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Quick question...how do you activate the hazard lights?

hybride
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Points: 145
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Activate hazard lights: Press hi-beam button + left brake lever + turn left or right

Kocho
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Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Sandy, what a sorry pile of BS about me you spat out to supplement the good stuff everyone is thanking you about! I'd respond to it if I thought a sane person wrote it, but it doesn't seem to be the case and that part of your post isn't worth even thinking about it any more. Done, forgotten.

=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=

However, I won't drop a sound technical discussion, so I'll provide some pointers to research on the max. charging voltage and what it means for the capacity of the Li battery. Citing with abbreviations and my annotations in square brackets from this source: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

"For safety reasons, many lithium-ion cannot exceed 4.20V/cell. While a higher voltage boosts capacity [per charge], exceeding the voltage shortens service life and compromises safety."

150V (which translates to 4.17V per cell in the 18 module setup) is awfully close to that limit and leaves just a tiny margin for error to go over it.

Additionally, another quote from here: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/93892/maximum-charging-voltage-for-li-ion-battery

"If Vmax is set at 4.15V then charge capacity is reduced noticeably but cycle life is extended.
If Vmax is set at 4.1V charge capacity is significantly reduced and cycle life is significantly extended.
The loss of capacity per cycle that occurs when Vmax is reduced leads to an overall INCREASE in total lifetime capacity as the extension in life cycles rises faster than the per cycle capacity falls. If you care mainly about highest capacity per charge set Vmax as high as allowed and accept low cycle life. If you can tolerate say 80% to 90% of max possible capacity per cycle, set Vmax lower and get more overall energy storage before replacement"

The three tables in the first article are of particular interest and folks should study them. Per these tables, the "Depth of Discharge" (something the user is primarily responsible for, within the limits of the MC low voltage protection) is just as important if not more important than the "Charge Level" data. Study them and draw your own conclusions.

I've made my choice and have decided for now to go with a max charging voltage of less than 150V for my 18 module setup, as research like the above and empirical evidence from Leaf and Tesla owners suggests that the battery capacity over the lifetime of the battery will be reduced by the higher charging voltages. By choosing a slightly lower max charge voltage, I have prioritized increased battery life over maximum range per charge.

Folks who prioritize differently, e.g., who value maximum range per charge over maximum total miles during the entire battery life over many charging cycles, can chose to charge to 150V or more if they like. It is a perfectly valid choice from a range per charge perspective (but comes with increased risk of damage should a cell become disbalanced).

Users of *any* charging software should be aware of such considerations and make informed decisions. It's not a matter of like and dislike, just facts.

If someone has different information or if I am misunderstanding the science, a civil discussion is welcome and I can open a new thread if desired, although I think it is relevant here.

BLUESTREAK
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

HI SANDY, I am just an old country boy (72 yrs in.DEC.) and don't know much about electronics but a lot about building things especially with steel so I thank.. you very much for all that you have done for all of us. and we will be grateful for your help in the future. some may not be happy with your work but I think most (about 99.99% are). so again SANDY THANK VERY MUCH. COOPER.

israndy
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

The Laird wrote:

Well, I was hoping that there might be the odd word of gratitude and there is, thank you Sacko and you too Johnathan and Bikemad.

I think we all thank each other for all of our continued efforts to keep all of our Vectri alive. Your team is definitely doing more than most and you do deserve thanks. Other sites I am on each post HAS a thanks button so you can give thanks tacitly w/o writing it out.

Some of us will not be able to test your software right away as our bikes are in otherwise disrepair. But I don't wanna be left out of the list of thankers, so from me to you and to you all, much thanks for all the efforts on this board.

-Randy

__________________

Also a new 2013 Volvo C70 hardtop convertible, a 2000 Honda Hybrid Insight, and a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee
RVs: a 40' Airstream Sky Deck, a 23' LTV Serenity RV
EVs: a 2012 Mitsubishi i-Miev and two 2007 Vectrix VX1 motorcycles, and in line for the new Tesla Model 3

JimmyB
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

israndy wrote:

I think we all thank each other for all of our continued efforts to keep all of our Vectri alive. Your team is definitely doing more than most and you do deserve thanks. Other sites I am on each post HAS a thanks button so you can give thanks tacitly w/o writing it out.

Some of us will not be able to test your software right away as our bikes are in otherwise disrepair. But I don't wanna be left out of the list of thankers, so from me to you and to you all, much thanks for all the efforts on this board.

-Randy

Randy puts it very well indeed, and I wholeheartedly concur. I've not downloaded anything yet - upcoming house move is taking pretty much all my time at the moment - but at some point a few weeks from now I shall do. In the meantime, allow me to reiterate my thanks to The Laird and to the community in general, without which I'd have given up on my Vectrix a long time ago.

Bikemad
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Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

The Laird wrote:

Hello Good People,

Well, I was hoping that there might be the odd word of gratitude and there is, thank you Sacko and you too Johnathan and Bikemad.

Sandy, although I have already thanked you privately via email, seeing your post has made me realise that I have not actually thanked you publicly, so here goes.

Thank you for all the time and effort that you have devoted to improving the charging of the Vectrix for the benefit of all Vectrix owners.

I think you deserve an award in recognition of your dogged determination and also for everything that you have been able to achieve without access to the relevant resources, never mind "the odd word of gratitude".
I don't think that the Vectrix community would be the way it is if you had not been part of it, and I'm pretty confident that everyone who has benefited from your software will surely agree with me.

I also think that PEAK-System also owe you a big thank you as well for all of the USB CANBUS adapters that they must have sold basically to enable your software to be installed.

I would also like to thank the other members of the Laird's Team, Hybride and oxf210p for their assistance.

Now I have "righted my wrong" I will ask a simple question in order to hopefully clarify the following statement for myself and others:

When using these files for the first time. - NiMH Batteries only
Following the install, ride the bike until the battery voltage drops to 122 Volt

Following my original install of your previous released firmware, I ran mine until I noticed it dropping to 120V under light load on my hilly terrain but the resting voltage at the end of the ride was 131V.
My dodgy pack will drop to 122V quite quickly under heavy acceleration on steep hills but the pack is still nowhere near empty.

So the question is:

Does the 122V have to be attained while the bike is under heavy load, light load or no load (resting voltage)?

Alan

The Laird
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Points: 264
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Hello Bikemad,

The idea of running the battery down to the 122volt was to ensure that the Battery voltage was below the Fuel gauge reset level (which is set at 130Volts) when the bike ios plugged in to charge.

If the battery is more than 130Volts when it is put on charge then the gauge will not reset to zero. This could result in a gauge that gives misleading information / tells lies.

The 122volt was to be achieved at 30MPH on a level road, this equates to a light load. Now that there is a limit on the low voltage it would be better just to ensure that the battery is less than 128volts when you plug the bike in for a recharge. Mostly, with the new softwares, the gauge is empty before the battery is depleted so the problem take care of itself.

Hi Cooper,
I'm like you, getting long in the tooth.
Too long in the tooth to put up with Kocho's senseless ramblings, hence my reply. Sorry if it bothered some folk, Thing is,
I don't suffer fools gladly and Kocho really is the KING OF THE FOOLS.

Thank you all for the thanks which you send. I wasn't fishing for praise, I was trying to get this topic back on track. Naturally that idiot Kocho simply can't resist fouling everything up and in his usual stupid fashion he has attempted to turn this 'Software announcement' into a discussion paper on more of his pointless ramblings. I am still trying to work out where his discussion on Lithium charger programmes originated. We have released no lithium charger programmes /files yet BUT from some deep dark recess inside Kocho's mostly empty head he has found a reason to foul up yet another forum topic with his talk of Lithium charge voltages and how our team is getting it all wrong. Oh Well, that's our clown Kocho. We don't need to ridicule him, he is making a wonderful job of that all by himself.

Best wishes folks, enjoy the files, (but only the ones intended for your bike).

The Laird

Kocho
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Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Sandy, you are loosing it!

The next is a note to others, who might not be familiar with the actual situation and could be fooled into believing some of the rubbish you write about me.

The Laird wrote:

...I am still trying to work out where his discussion on Lithium charger programmes originated. We have released no lithium charger programmes /files yet

The Laird

Ask Alan if he has your "non-released" Leaf charger firmware. http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13928-my-simple-leaf-cell-conversion?page=1#comment-75015

There are other versions of it too for others folks, if you look around. I wonder how all these folks are using a "non-existent" piece of software with your name on its readme and are quite happy with it... Sure, it is not uploaded on the public download site, but it exists.

Your LV limit on the MC is well chosen. But it does nothing to address whether one should or should not ride to it every time they take the bike out. The referenced research paper does and I hope some will find it helpful. I asked about your charger's upper limit considerations so we can all learn. Tell me where my logic is incorrect, don't make-up BS about what I did not say.

From your thread here:

The Laird wrote:

...Motor controller files for Lithium:

So far the Motor controller for lithium is for the 'Leaf' conversions of 36Cells (18 Modules) and
38Cells (19Modules). It is hoped to produce M.C. files for other variants where some standardisation
of cell count / chemistry etc exists.
...

If you find any errors or problems with the files (please read the readMe and compare behaviour to that)
Then let us know and we will endeavor to solve the problem.

The Laird

You posted that both MC files are there, even describe them. Then ask to tell you if we encounter any issues. And when we tell you that one of the two files is missing and if that was unintentional to upload it, you insult those who try to help your product be better. While I think you've done a good job, I am not and will not be using your software, so there is no reason to call me names for trying to help others make sense of it. I don't need your permission to post here. Whether you like my information is irrelevant, but your silly responses to me do not belong on a civilized forum like ours - they are just wrong and not helping anyone. All your doing is eroding your own good name by behaving like a complete jackass.

This is not about you (you need psychiatric help, seriously), it is about your software and helping others. If you don't have factual information for a constructive discussion, keep quiet. I won't waste any more time on this topic.

The Laird
Offline
Joined: 07/29/2009
Points: 264
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Hello Kocho,

Your are spot on correct. I am losing it, I can no longer tolerate your inane interference in my posts.

And following your latest round of insulting posts, the forum is losing me as I have no wish to read any more of your pathetic outpourings of uneducated opinion and misinformation, nor do I have any desire to offer you explanations as you are totally incapable of understanding that which I try to explain

The following e-mail arrived yesterday, from the forum, telling me of yet another insulting post by you, concerning the work that I have done /am doing and it is the final straw that has convinced me that I must terminate my forum presence.

The post doesn't appear on the forum, which is strange. However it appeared in my in box in the following way:-

***************************************************************************

| Greetings, The Laird.
|
| Your subscription on V is for Voltage electric vehicle forum
| notifies you of new comments:
|
| Category: Vectrix
| Author: The Laird
| Contact: http://visforvoltage.org/users/laird/contact
| Title: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1
| Link: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/14072-lairds-team-files-vx1
|
| DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, to comment on this posting click here:
| Post comment link:
http://visforvoltage.org/comment/reply/14072#comment-form
|
| Direct unsubscribe link (thread):
|
http://visforvoltage.org/s/del/node/nid/14072/-1/4081/c76b62d616af69c5ed0027b34bedb75e
| --------------------------------------------------------------------
| New comment:
| Author: Kocho
| Title: Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Sandy, what a BS! Did you even read (i.e., understand) *anything* of what I
posted in this thread? Rest assured, I'm not and will not be using any of
your files. Hopefully others can read my posts for what they are - trying to
learn and help others - not what you, in what can only be explained by being
in a [hopefully temporary] delusional state of mind, imagine them to be.

Now, if you have something constructive to say on the discussion about the
150V choice for the top charger voltage for an 18 module setup, and whether
it will negatively impact the longevity of the cells and pose a higher risk
of overcharging, I'll read it. The reason I post this question is that, based
on what I read, the benefit from exceeding 4.0V per cell are minimal, while
it has been established that there is an increased risk of accidental
overcharge/cell damage and accelerated decrease in cell capacity with each
charge. If someone has factual information contrary to this, please share. Of
course, we are free to choose our own limits (pun intended), but I think
people who choose to use this and any other software should know why it is
doing what it does, and how it and the way they use it will affect their
battery life.

In the meantime, I reported your posts to the moderator to remove them. Or
you do it, so fewer people see the embarrassing stuff you posted.

P.S. If someone in the US wrote what you wrote about me here, they'd be
getting a summons for a court appearance for insults, libel, and death
threats ("stop breathing", how'd you thought that one-up?!). In other parts
of the world, and perhaps a few centuries ago, they'd be facing my rapier in
a duel to the death ;). And yes, that's a smiley face at the end of the
precious sentence, an indication that I'm joking about the rapier and the
duel. I don't know if where you come from it's accepted and legal to say such
things publicly, but in most of the rest of the world I recon it isn't. It'd
be funny reading, if it wasn't sad coming from a real person...

| Link:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/14072-lairds-team-files-vx1#comment-75520

*********************************************************************************

Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, I didn't join this forum for any reason other than to learn and help where I could. I did not join to engage in insulting comments with anyone, nor to attempt to teach those who don't wish to listen, and frankly I have better things to do than argue with Kocho.

I have always read all posts, especially those pertaining to my own topics, because in my understanding of life, you either condone and accept what others say or do, by agreeing with them or by saying nothing. When others get it wrong, then you are morally bound to help them to get it right by explaining their errors.

There is a certain group of people with whom this tactic does not work. Their response, to any suggestion that they might be wrong, is to argue, deny, ridicule and attempt to humiliate those who try to correct them. I consider these people to be fools, idiots or mental defectives. They lack the ability to reason and understand someone else's viewpoint. They also lack compassion and they lack common sense and logic. I find these people both frustrating and offensive in the extreme. Kocho is one of this group and he has offended and frustrated me for the last time.

I may be accused of over-reaction but, Over the last two months I/we have spent many hundreds of hours writing and sorting files and ReadMe's for publication, I spent two whole days organising a distribution method and setting up the web pages. I wrote the scripts to announce the publication and the others in the group also worked hard with this task by moderating, discussing and agreeing details for the final publication of the files. As I have already said, I/we had hoped that the announcement would attract little or no comment, just perhaps a vote of thanks or two. Instead of this, we get Kocho, in with his inane and pointless twaddle occupying the bulk of the unnecessary discussion. The rest, as they say, is history.

Talking of history, Part of Kocho's unpleasantness, particularly towards me, is due to the fact that, some time ago I turned down his offer to help write the hex files. It was early in his forum membership and initially, he sounded competent. Fortunately, he quickly demonstrated his stupidity in a variety of posts and I, equally quickly, dropped any idea of letting him loose on the programming work which I was doing at that time. Since that day he has sought every opportunity to ridicule or argue with every post that I have made.

For further reading on this topic see Kocho's posted topic "New VX-1 Charging question" dated 1st July 2014. By the time you have read comment Number twenty, where my patience is getting thin, you will have got the gist of it.

Well, this forum for me, is also history and no longer a part of my life.

I am abandoning this forum as of this post.

I shall post nothing and I shall not be accepting any forum communications of any description.

Anyone wishing to contact me must do it privately by private e-mail, which I will be checking on a weekly basis.

My best wishes to you all.

Goodbye.

Sandy / (The Laird)

X Vectrix
Offline
Joined: 08/04/2009
Points: 297
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Not sure which Kocho he is referring to. The Kocho I have interacted with for the last 2 yrs is very observative and asks some pretty good questions, and provides his own valuable experimental data.
Must be some other Kocho.

R
R's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1754
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

I have been asking to plenty, plenty people from italy to America, ex-employes from vectrix, for a modified MC 1014b Firmware with higher low limit. That 102V low limit was a real battery killer.

No one could / WANT (mr.D!) to help. I had already lost faith, but suddenly, Team the Laird managed to do the miracle: turn the prototype, the "if-you-accelerate-caressly-the-battery-dies", into a perfectly programmed vehicle, usable for mainstream owners!

Thank you The laird, your team, and all the people who made the miracle possible!
If any of you, the people from the laird team, come to Barcelona, I owe you a dinner, take it for granted!
I'll test the firm with my second vectrix, and try to report any bugs.

Today I keep smiling!

Kocho
Offline
Joined: 03/21/2014
Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

David,

To you and the rest of the forum members: I am truly sorry this has happened! There is only one user named "Kocho" on this forum :) This is indeed the same person that you David know from our correspondence with you on the ESD and Runke charger firmware and who you met in person at the Vectrix auction. And who others here on this forum know in person in the area where I live. That Kocho has always been respectful and polite with everyone, including Sandy, "the Laird". But the Laird went berserk shortly after the time we discussed in private to collaborate on the software. Sandy has been insulting me every time he gets a chance and as you can all see here - for no good sane reason whatsoever.

I'll back-off this subject myself and I have requested the forum moderator to remove from this thread the inappropriate content in the Laird's posts (and my own responses to them too), which will hopefully only leave here the information about the software release.

X Vectrix wrote:

Not sure which Kocho he is referring to. The Kocho I have interacted with for the last 2 yrs is very observative and asks some pretty good questions, and provides his own valuable experimental data.
Must be some other Kocho.

And I'll finish with a quote from the Laird himself and let everyone for themselves be the judge of which type of person Sandy came out as in his responses to what I wrote in this thread:

"When others get it wrong, then you are morally bound to help them to get it right by explaining their errors. There is a certain group of people with whom this tactic does not work. Their response, to any suggestion that they might be wrong, is to argue, deny, ridicule and attempt to humiliate those who try to correct them. I consider these people to be fools, idiots or mental defectives."

BLUESTREAK
Offline
Joined: 11/15/2009
Points: 280
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

KOCHO I thought were not going to post any more,just please keep your word.

VectrixLeaf
Offline
Joined: 01/31/2015
Points: 71
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Thanks a lot Laird, I just update to motocontroller-A 70-120-140, charge software to 40 ºC + eq (I live in Spain), and ICM DIY. I was using you other software 3-4 months ago.

If I accelerate strong voltage down to 118, is it normal that stay 118 instead of 120? What does beSOULT on display? This appears when I am several seconds to 118,119 volts. What better software charging do you recommended? which equalize or without?

Thanks again Laird!!!!

Kocho
Offline
Joined: 03/21/2014
Points: 488
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

You don't want to accelerate hard on a nearly empty battery - you can damage a cell this way! Was your warning message "BUsVLT" (Battery under safe Voltage), instead of what you wrote below?

VectrixLeaf wrote:

Thanks a lot Laird, I just update to motocontroller-A 70-120-140, charge software to 40 ºC + eq (I live in Spain), and ICM DIY. I was using you other software 3-4 months ago.

If I accelerate strong voltage down to 118, is it normal that stay 118 instead of 120? What does beSOULT on display? This appears when I am several seconds to 118,119 volts. What better software charging do you recommended? which equalize or without?

Thanks again Laird!!!!

R
R's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/18/2009
Points: 1754
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Just tested the new programs. Impressive work! Congratulations!
The voltage stayed at 119v under full acceleration, it is a dream that comes true!
Sure, No damage to the battery at this hi volt level.
The regen limit 141v, quite scary at the beginning, but I get used immediately.
And the top speed, wow!! 114 km/h! I've never been riding that fast on a vectrix!

I've just found one bug in the ICM code. If hi beam activated,+ press left brake lever + press turn signal, it activates hazard lights. May it be possible to only activate hazard lights with flash light of hi beam+ press left brake lever `+ press turn signal?

hybride
Offline
Joined: 08/01/2014
Points: 145
Re: The Laird's Team Files for the VX1

Hi R,

As far as i know the DIY ICM software was written by this person: http://visforvoltage.org/user/doityourself . His last post was 11-2014.

Maybe someone knows him in person or you could try ask him by e-mail?

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