How Alfa products aka X-treme scooters deals with their mistakes

here is my ticket read it, know it, avoid it!
Subject: Defective XB-700 Li

Posted by James Keffer

I was Informed to create this ticket listing the defects of my order.
1. The bike came improperly shipped as the handle bars were left to dangle by the wires instead of being attached to the shipping frame and the wire sleevings are worn away where it connected and rubbed on the dash some worn to the core.
2. The windshield was not Isometric and severely scratched up.
3. The left handle bar handbreak looked as though it was grinded on at the end.
4. The throttle felt like it was missing a bushing inside as it was all wiggley and also when you pull it back it dosent stop right it is messed up.
5. The passenger left foot peg will not come out.
6. The chain gaurds were overtightened breaking the plastic fastener moldings.
7. The fastener assembly for the handle bars was missing the nut.... Which I went to the hardware store and got what I could but the handle bars constantly come loose and must be retightened.
8. The chrome piece on the rear was overtightened on assembly making it look like crap.
9. The alarm/blinkers/horn aren't working.
10. Not sure but perhaps missing bushings for the flip up action on the seat as well. If thats how its made I suggest adding 1 or 2 bushings there, as when I open the under seat compartment the seat wants to go sideways and bend the hinge that it is on.

Date: 02-11-2009 4:25pm CSTSubject: No subject
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Posted by Bob (Staff)

James, I tried to call you today. If you could send pictures of all this damage we can get new parts shipped out to you.

Thank you,
Bob

Date: 02-12-2009 2:25pm CST
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Posted by James Keffer

Bob sorry My Phone is Not working correctly if you try several times in a row you can get thru to me thats how everyone's calls I get.

Will send you pics asap, but I must say I paid for A brand New Bike not A defective one and Really either want you to send me what was paid for or my money back and you can have this Bike. I'm not Willing to Take bits and pieces at a time till it gets right. Please understand the money was good the bike wasn't. And the damage is too extensive to accept as new and what was paid for $1695.00
I would Much rather be sent A proper Unit, than pursue getting my money Back.
Thank you,
James
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Date: 02-12-2009 3:25pm CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by Bob (Staff)

James, this damage would have happened in shipping. This is why we have the warranty. We usually do not allow scooters to be returned to us for shipping damage. When we get the pictures we will send you all the parts that you need to make the bike look new again. All of the pieces on the bike are easy to replace and should not take much time.

Thank you,
Bob

Date: 02-12-2009 3:35pm CST
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Subject: not shiping damage

Posted by James Keffer

The Bike was Improperly presented as in good condition nothing was good about the condition and if you wish to blame shipping then thats your concern as I paid for a product and got a Lemon now if you dont Belive me I have wittnesses to the condition of this bike on arrival. And ive read your shipping rules and im not interested in paying for shipping of parts after the first shipping rule or getting parts and thats not the problem. The electrical wiring is all faulty and I'm not the one who is going to fix it! I bought A new Bike and thats what I want. I dont have time to Build the Bike that was the companys responsibility and included in the price that I paid for it. so who puts the bike in the shipping frame? and is the bike completely assembled then dissassembled to be put in the shipping frame? All not my fault nor am I willing to absorb it.
Please Excuse me if I sound upset but I am, and have been since the Bike arrived but didnt know how to contact you or this ticket thing. Will send you pics tomorrow I have to work now and dont have time today.some things cant be explained in pictures cause theyre not simple shipping scratches theyre defectively assembled parts.
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Date: 02-12-2009 6:15pm CST
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Subject: Bike Quit moving

Posted by James Keffer

Now the bike don't go at all. lights come on and thats all it does now. Do you still need pictures of that? didn't send the pics of parts because the Bike quit moving completely and that is why I wanted it replaced cause it was not "up to par" from the get go. And the bike is full of snap together parts that will likely break when attempting to disassemble.
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Date: 02-16-2009 11:35pm CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, please provide answers to the following questions about your xb700li scooter. This will help me troubleshoot what the problem is.

When you first plug your charger into the wall receptacle what color lights do you see on the charger? When you plug your charger into your scooter and the wall receptacle what color lights do you see? This will help me determine what is wrong with your scooter. If the scooter charger light does not turn Red then we need a new charger port. If your charger does not change state when you plug it into the scooter then lift the battery pack out of scooter and plug the charger into bottom of battery box, and report this problem.

Remove the seat and seat barrel from the scooter to expose the controller. Check to make sure all wires are plugged in. Check the wires leading into the side middle of motor to see if the wires are going in straight or if its twisted, and report.

Check that the brake handles on handlebars that they are extended fully. These scooters have a safety switch in them to prevent throttle and brake usage at same time. You should be able to hear the clicking.

Thank you,
John

Date: 02-17-2009 11:52am CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by James Keffer

John the charger is fine the lights are as they are supposed to be the bike has a full charge THE BIKE IS, DEFECTIVE AND IM NOT BUYING IT BRAND NEW WHEN ALL THIS IS WRONG. i aready said the horn/blinkers/alarm dosent work.
For the record the light is green when you plug it in to the wall and turns orange when
you plug it in to the bike on a low or no charge and turns green when the bike is fully charged. I'M NOT TEARING INTO THIS BIKE. At this point will pursue my money back.
Thank you, James
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Date: 02-17-2009 2:38pm CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, your request for a R.M.A. (Return Merchandise Authorization) has been acknowledged by support team member. To qualify for this R.M.A., you must meet the conditions below, and to be pre-authorized by a support team manager. Within 1 - 2 business days of submitting your request, a team member from our support department will contact you with further instructions. Returns for refund must be pre-authorized.

Return Terms and Conditions:
Customer is responsible for returning merchandise at their own expense.

Merchandise must be received in 100% new, re-sellable condition. Merchandise is not eligible for refund if it has been ridden, worn, used, abused, damaged in any way or gas has been added to the fuel tank. Merchandise must arrive complete (including warranty cards, manuals, accessories, promotional items, etc.) and in the original packaging.

Customer must initiate return shipment of the merchandise within 15 days of the purchase date.

Preparing your product for Authorized R.M.A. return shipment:

1.) Re-pack the merchandise securely in its original packaging, include the original contents of the box; warranty cards, Manuals, accessories, promotional items, etc.
2.) Include a copy of your invoice.
3.) Include a copy of the RMA notice you have received from us via our support department help desk.
4.) Clearly print your RMA# on the return shipping label (on the outside of the box).For your protection we recommend all returns be sent via UPS, Federal Express, DHL or other courier that issues a tracking number. We recommend that the shipment is insured. The customer is responsible for damage or loss during return shipping.
5.) Freight collect and COD packages will not be accepted.

At the discretion of X-Treme Scooters, returns which do not follow the above guidelines may be refused and require the customer to pay return shipping and handling fees, or an additional processing fee may apply. If accepted, items returned without RMA # are subject to an additional 15% restocking fee.
All shipping charges are non-refundable.

Once merchandise has been accepted for refund, credit will be applied to the account through which payment was originally made immediately.

Thank you,
John

Date: 02-18-2009 9:20am CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by James Keffer

So are you saying your replacing it or not? I am not interested in Alfa products company policy on sending out products in bad condition and expecting the paying customer to fix whatever your assembly team or shipping team didn't get right.
Thank you,
James
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Date: 02-18-2009 1:16pm CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, Thank you for contacting us in regards of your RMA request status. I have sent your information to Customer Care Group for them to contact you. If you have a question concerning your RMA you may contact Customer Care Group @ 402-603-4445 ext 203. You will be notified by them shortly. No need to reply to this ticket, unless you have a tech question.

Thank you,
John

Date: 02-23-2009 9:32am CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by Michelle (Staff)

A Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) number has been issued for your XB-700. You will find this number below. An RMA will ensure that your return is accepted at our warehouse. You will need to return the item, along with any parts that have been shipped to you under warranty, to our warehouse at the following address:
API
910 N 19TH AVE E
NEWTON, IA 50208

Please make sure the RMA number is written clearly on at least three sides of the box. Please note; failure to include the RMA number on the box will result in the package being refused and returned to you. Your RMA number expires 3/09/09. The customer is responsible for the shipping of the scooter back as per our policy witch maybe viewed at www.x-tremescooters.com/owning/warranty.html. Your return must be post marked on or before this date. Once you have returned the item and it has been delivered to our warehouse you will receive a refund*. Please allow 3 business days after delivery for your refund to be processed. Thank you.

Return Merchandise Authorization Number: 200768-3065090316 refund.

Sincerely,
X-Treme Scooters

* Failure to return the warranty parts with your return will result in the cost of said parts being deducted from your refund.

Thank you,
Michelle

Date: 02-23-2009 12:01pm CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by James Keffer

Please contact the customer's Mother, Tammy, at 530-283-2685. She will be contact the AG of Iowa if she does not get a phone call. Thanks.
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Date: 02-23-2009 12:12pm CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, Thank you for contacting us in regards of your RMA request status. I have sent your information to Customer Care Group for them to contact you. If you have a question concerning your RMA you may contact Customer Care Group @ 402-603-4445 ext 203. You will be notified by them shortly. No need to reply to this ticket, unless you have a tech question.

Thank you,
John

Date: 02-24-2009 9:23am CST
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Subject: No subject

Posted by Michelle (Staff)

James,

I tried to contact Tammy by phone today and left a voice mail. The information for returning this item is listed below in the RMA information. This RMA expires on 3/09/2009. If the product is not recieved or posted by that date then it will be refused at the dock when it gets here. If you have any other questions please contact our customer care department at 402-603-4445 ext 203.

Thank you,
Michelle

Date: 02-25-2009 11:19am CST
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Subject: returning scooter

Posted by Tammy Roberts

this is tammy roberts. i have just gotten back from washington state, and there was a voice mail for me from michelle with an rma number. first i only had till 3/9/09 to return this piece of junk? well first i have to come up with the money to return it and figure out how to do it. i have written to the iowa attorney generals office and i am also pursuing other means of getting my money back,i will not stop until this is resolved. you took 1649.00 of my hard earned money,for a product that is absolutly worthless, and expect me to pay for return shipping.how unfair is that?
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Date: 03-9-2009 6:23pm CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, Thank you for contacting us in regards of your RMA request status. I have sent your information to Customer Care Group for them to contact you. If you have a question concerning your RMA you may contact Customer Care Group @ 402-603-4445 ext 203. You will be notified by them shortly. No need to reply to this ticket, unless you have a tech question.

Thank you,
John

Date: 03-10-2009 1:01pm CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by Michelle (Staff)

Tammy,

I have extended the RMA until 03/24/2009. That is two weeks from today. Please follow the return instruction listed below. Please note that the RMA number has changed. it is 200768-3065090331.

The reason that you are being required to pay for the return of the shipping is because this was signed for with no damage reported at time of signature. I am also showing that this item was delivered on 1/22/09. I show that the first posting to this ticket was on 2/11/09, that is a total of 20 days from the date of delivery to the time of notification to us that there was a problem with the shipment. After 20 days we are unable to determine if the damage was the responsibility of the carrier or the customer. With no damages noted at time of delivery we can not assume that the delivery carrier was responsible.

I appologize for this inconvenience.

Thank you,
Michelle

Date: 03-10-2009 1:31pm CDT
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Subject: fyi

Posted by James Keffer

For your knowledge we did not know about this ticket thing until the time we posted it we did try to contact who we thought we needed to and the sent us to you. Also when the bike arrived the truck driver didn't wait around for me to assemble the bike and it had to be signed for so that is your answer to it being signed for it was in a box, and all wrapped with bubble packing obstructing the inspection until it was all cleared away. I was warned to put something to the effect of upon or after inspection on signing the delivery manifest but it was early (8:45am) when it arrived and I work nights, so i did not recall that warning. Upon assembly was discovered all the flaws and defects. And this bike is not the only thing going on in our lives and it has been a pain having to deal with this amongst other things. The bike doesn't work. And pursued in failing electrically from the start. I had no doubt from viewing the condition on arrival after getting it all out of packaging that this bike was poorly if not improperly assembled and would likely have problems. Tammy was informed immedeatly and got to it as soon as she could. 20 days was the max life of this bike good job! The only thing to blame here is a defective bike.
thank you,
James
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Date: 03-12-2009 12:56am CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, Thank you for contacting us in regards of your RMA request status. I have sent your information to Customer Care Group for them to contact you. If you have a question concerning your RMA you may contact Customer Care Group @ 402-603-4445 ext 203. You will be notified by them shortly. No need to reply to this ticket, unless you have a tech question.

Thank you,
John

Date: 03-12-2009 8:20am CDT
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Subject: let me rip you off and then try to apologize. o.O

Posted by James Keffer

No amount of apologies covers the shipping cost that we are paying just to get what you should be taking care of done. Dealing with Alfa products was a huge mistake in retrospect and you can be assured that i will go to every place i can (i.e. elec. bike forums ect.)and tell of the piece of junk you sent me and how in the end your answer to it was the customer walks away with a gouge in their pocket. I know ppl all around the world who will now know how Alfa products/X-treme scooters rips people off! The fact that you refuses to take any responsibility or even consider that this bike may be defective/improperly assembled proves that you only wish to deny everything regardless of the truth of the matter. Is that what they pay you to do?? Is that your policy?? To send out defective merchandise and then try to place some sort of blame on the PAYING customer for your shotty, less than shabby craftmanship?? Whoever assembled it was a hack imo! THE BIKE IS DEFECTIVE IT DOES NOT GO. THE MANUFACTURERS ARE TO BLAME! NOT THE SHIPPING, NOT THE CUSTOMER! QUIT ACTING LIKE CHILDREN AND GROW UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS DEFECTIVE PRODUCT!
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Date: 03-12-2009 1:56pm CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, Thank you for contacting us in regards of your RMA request status. I have sent your information to Customer Care Group for them to contact you. If you have a question concerning your RMA you may contact Customer Care Group @ 402-603-4445 ext 203. You will be notified by them shortly. No need to reply to this ticket, unless you have a tech question.

Thank you,
John

Date: 03-17-2009 8:49am CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by James Keffer

well I could spend the money that it costs to ship this thing much more wisely by filing a lawsuit and get it back at the end. ALL OF IT!
How bout we let an honest judge decide? I have not worries that I will find justice in this route. How many people have this company swindled money from and sent out lemons?? lots I know.
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Date: 03-18-2009 12:49am CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by Michelle (Staff)

As previously noted, I have extended your warranty until 3/31/2009. Per our website it is the responsibilty of the buyer to return the product for a refund or replacement. The warranty on this item is 30 days. What I can do is send you a label to return the item under our account number for a discounted rate. However, before I am able to do this I would need for you to provide me with the billing infromation for this shipment. (i.e. - certified check or money order). Please let me know how you wish to proceed. I can not at this time extend the warranty further.

Thank you,
Michelle

Date: 03-18-2009 10:55am CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by James Keffer

Bottom line how much of a discount? I need figures.
when you say billing information what do you mean? Are you asking how the bike was purchased?
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Date: 03-19-2009 1:18am CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, I have sent this to Michelle to finish up for you.

Thank you,
John

Date: 03-19-2009 2:37pm CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by Tammy Roberts

for your information this bike has a 90 day warranty xb700li you should know that
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Date: 03-19-2009 8:10pm CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by Michelle (Staff)

James,

We have approved the RMA for this item and are willing to replace it. You need to return the item before we can do this. The RMA request was issued by our support team and it was determined that YOU would be responsible for the return shipping on this item. We have told you that we would scedule the pick up for you but that you would have to pay for the cost of that return in advance before we would send the truck to pick it up. We have extended this RMA on 2 occasions.
The cost to return this under our account would be $190.00. You would need to send a certified check or money order to us before we would schedule the pick up of this item.
Please review the warranty information at our website. Please review the warranty as well as the limited warranty details further down on the page. http://www.x-tremescooters.com/owning/warranty.html

Thank you,
Michelle
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Subject: No subject

Posted by James Keffer

Michelle thank you for the return shipment discount. I feel a little better that you have done at least that. Howerver I do not want the bike replaced since you refuse to cover shipping. If I have to pay to send it back then I want a full refund of the original purchase price. Otherwise I'm just paying an extra $200.00 for the bike that should have been right the first time. I don't want to take the chance of getting another defective product and having to go thru this all over again. If you cover the shipping I would have no arguement on a replacement. But I'm not paying more for the same thing. you must understand this thing came in such a condition of disorder and all in poor Quality of not being inspected before being shipped to me. the damage was so obvious that it offended me to recieve it like that with all the things wrong with it right off the batt.
So here are the two ways that i would be ok with:
1. I pay to have it shipped back and you give me a full refund of the original purchase price ($1649.00).

2. You cover the cost of the return shipping and replace the bike and you cover the cost of shipping the replacement.
thank you,
James
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Date: 03-23-2009 5:35pm CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, I have talked your case with the owners and the original shipping cost is nonrefundable as stated on our website. http://www.x-tremescooters.com/owning/warranty.html

Thank you,
John

Date: 03-26-2009 4:27pm CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by James Keffer

who said anything about the original shipping cost????
If I pay to ship this bike back then I want my money back not a replacement.
read my last post again... eat some cookies, drink some milk, reread the last post again then get back to me when you understand what I said.

Do you really think that I or a judge cares what the website says? You sent me a Defective product. Wanna gamble on weather or not I'm capable of proving that?

btw I have reviewed your warranty terms and conditions and it is full of contradiction, making it child's play to pick it apart in a courtroom.
thank you,
James
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Date: 03-27-2009 7:06am CDT
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Subject: No subject

Posted by John (Staff)

James, I am sending this over to Michelle to finish up for you.

Thank you,
John

Date: 03-27-2009 9:54am CDT
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Subject: RMA Return
James,

I have reviewed your comments of 3/23/2009 and discussed them with upper management. This RMA was issued for a return not a replacement. I apologize if the wrong word was typed in.

As for refunding your purchase - As previously noted it is your responsibility to return this item to us. We are willing to provide you with label on our account to reduce the cost of this return. When it is returned you will be refund full purchase price less original shipping cost, also, per the policy agreement.

I have already extended this RMA multiple times and this will be the last time that I am able to do so. We have been working with you to try to resolve this issue. You must return it before we can do anything with it. Each time we extend it by 2 weeks to give you time to send payment for the return shipping and for us to schedule the pick up of this item.

The new RMA number is 200768-3065090422 / Refund

This RMA expires on 4/15/2009. It must be returned by this time in order to get the refund. If it is not returned by that time your opportunity to return it will have expired and you will have to keep the item and work with tech support. Up to 4/15/2009 will have given you over 5 weeks to return this.

If you have further questions please contact our customer care team at 402-603-4445.

Thank you,
Michelle

Date: 04-2-2009 9:14am CDT
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I Have just reviewed the warrany terms and conditions to find tha they have just been updated today! All about the return shipping and shipping costs being non-refundable. These "updates" are a direct result of this ticket that is eveident.

"15 DAY RETURN POLICY (Satisfaction Guarantee) (Added 12-10-2008)

Note: Customer is responsible for returning merchandise at his or her own expense.
All shipping charges are non-refundable."

"*All shipping charges are non-refundable.
*Customer is responsible for returning merchandise at their own expense."

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this is the line they give you which states they will pay for shipping on the first warranty coverage.... apperently they have no intention of ever keeping their word here.

The warranty starts the day the scooter is delivered to you. This warranty covers factory defects and defaults only.* We do not cover misuse or broken parts caused by the user or by any other event. X-Treme will pay for standard shipping service costs on the first warranty shipment* only. Any additional warranty parts that are needed will require the customer to pay all shipping costs.

*note what is said in blue and how they refused to honor that. This whole bike needed to be sent back yet they wont cover any cost on the "first warranty shipment"

Comments

ArcticFox2's picture

That's a shame.

I can't even think of how many tickets I've seen which look just like that. Some spanning for months, never being able to be resolved. In each case I've tried my best to flex muscles against X-Treme to get it taken care of -- and every time it got harder and harder to defend my customer.

You can call X-Treme's number (even the dealers' private number) and never get through, as well as never getting that "promised call back". You can send emails until your fingers bleed, only to keep getting what seems like a copy-n-pasted reply every time.

My suggestion for this is DO NOT BUY ANY X-Treme Scooter PRODUCT. Period. If for some silly reason you really, really want to take a gamble; pay using your Credit Card, or directly via PayPal. When your troubles are not resolved by X-Treme, you can take it directly to your Credit Card company for resolution, or you can contact PayPal and have them issue a "chargeback". I have issued chargebacks towards X-Treme with a lot less headaches than having to deal with them for months. In the end, I was threatened to be removed from their Dealer's list and would be prevented from buying from them in the future.

Which, that would not be such a bad thing anyway.

The best avenue that I've found is filing an on-line complaint with the Iowa State Attorney Generals Office. They resolved my problem 700Li fairly and to my satisfaction. That being said, the 700Li is lacking in workmanship, engineering and quality control. I do not recommend it any longer to someone wanting to buy one.

Ben - Modesto

James,

This is a sad story. I would like to share some of my experiences with shiping that I think will help.

My last job after retiring from the USAF was working in a shop that made parts for airplanes. Most were fiberglass and carbon fiber, but the company also works with large aluminum assemblies. Materials used in the aviation industry are very closely controlled. For example - many of the parts are made from glass and carbon fiber cloth that arrives with epoxy already on the fabric - it's pre-impregnated with epoxy. To keep it from curing during shipping, the roll of fabric is shipped frozen in insulated boxes. The box contains a temperature logger. On delivery, while the delivery truck is still parked, the boxes are checked for damage. Any damage noted must be logged on the shipping manifest or bill of lading. Obviously, when one accepts a pallet-load of boxes wrapped in 'saran wrap' they can only see what's happening on the outside of the shipment. The shipment is signed for, the truck pulls away, and the material is put in the freezer. The temperature recorders are checked next. Any fabric that got above the maximum temperature is unusable and is returned to the supplier. If the supplier messed up, they refund the cost of the damaged parts. If the shipper messed up (refer unit on the truck failed enroute, for example), then the shipper's insurance covers the damage.

The shipper has policies in place to deal with damage. The trucking company (whether a less-than-load trucking company or FedEx/UPS/DHL) has policies in place to cover damage while the product is under their control. The paperwork is used to keep track of where the damage ocurred, and thus which 'pot of money' is used to replace the bad parts.

A real-world example: A referigerated trailer comes in full of carbon fiber cloth. The folks in receiving sign for the shipment. They go to lunch, then get involved in another shipment, and because it's Friday, they are pulled into the 'shipping process' to get all the new parts out the door for the week. When they get back to the other side of the warehouse, they realize they have a bunch of fabric that should have been in the freezer. They notify the qualify control folks to help unpack and check all the data loggers. The fabric that is still cold enough gets put into the freezers. The stuff that's unusable cannot be used to make parts and must either be used to make molds or test parts, or must be destroyed. The supplier did their job, the shipper did theirs - the company pays for the damage they caused.

Another (shorter) example: The receiving folks sign for a shipment and roll it into the freezer. QC folks check the temperature logs and find that the entire shipment was damaged. Shipping does their paperwork to return the entire shipment to the supplier, and pay to return the damaged shipment via truck. Since the supplier knows they shipped frozen fabric, they file a claim with the trucking company. The shipping company failed to do their part, and it cost them time and money.

You ordered an item that was delivered. It could have been a VCR from WalMart that didn't work, or it could have been a computer from Dell. It was damaged in shipping. The shipper is responsible for the damage - they accepted a good bike from the supplier, and they are supposed to deliver a good bike to you. They signed to accept responsibility for the shipment, just like you signed for responsibility when you received the box. I can understand your disappointment when you unboxed a damaged bike - been there, done that. :-) When UPS delivered a Dell desktop that had been damaged in shipping, I had to pay to ship it back to Dell for replacement. When the DVD player I bought from WalMart didn't work, I had to take it back - WalMart didn't send a driver to my house to collect the box. It's important for us to do our 'due diligence' and understand the process before we commit to the process, because once we decide to 'play the game' we have to play by the rules that are in place.

I knew going in that I had to get the box back to the supplier to get the computer and DVD replaced. I could yell and scream, I could feel like a dumbass, I could kick my cat, but in the end, I knew it was my responsibility. I didn't say that I'd never order on the internet again. I didn't say I'd never order from Dell again, and I didn't start a campaign against WalMart or Sony for the bad DVD player.

I feel for you because I've been where you are. But the beauty is that you get to decide how you handle it - just like signing for a delivery, that's your responsibility.

well if you would have read the report i made you will see that i specifically said and am saying it yet again now the damage was not caused in shipping! if you saw it you would agree. it was improper manufacturer defects. I don't know how many times one must say this in order for it to be properly addressed as such. The shippers didnt do anything but move a box. The box it was in was completely fine. The bike should never have left the warehouse in all rights. like i said who puts the bike in the box? Not the shippers, the company. and like i said it was improperly assembled with stripped overtightened screws and other obvious manufacturer defects. So to make it clear here it was not shipping damage the bike should not have been sent to me in the condition it was in thus if it was done right then the company would have a happy customer. This company has many many unhappy customers. I am warning others of this so they know what to expect.
Sending me a proper unit for the money i paid was their responsibility.

Feel free to drop the attitude - you're among friends here. Cool?

I agree 100% - if the bike was as bad as you suggest, then it should never have left Iowa - and should never have left China, for that matter.

But you're mistaken - the bike wasn't built in Iowa - it was built in a factory in China, put in the box, and most likely sealed until you got it. That's your first false assumption and that appears to be the central problem in your first posting.

Let's look at the chain of events as I understand them:

X-Treme ordered a bike from China. IF the bike arrived in the condition you suggest (do you have pictures?), then there's a chain of events something like this: The Chinese factory should have not shipped a defective product. The folks that shipped the product to the US accepted it. The folks in Iowa accepted it. The shipper in the US accepted it. And at the end of the journey, YOU accepted it. IF it was as bad as you suggest, then it should have been caught at any number of points before now.

But it didn't. And you got it. Now what?

You should have looked it over on delivery before signing for it. If it looked ok, as you suggest, than you did your part. Next step for you is to open the box and inspect the package - as soon as possible. Not 20 days later. Your bad.

Your next step was to contact the company immediately and let them know that you have a serious problem. They say in their ticket process to include pictures with the ticket to claim damage - I would have included as many pictures as possible - because they can't read your mind. And frankly, having done computer support, it's well beyond any tech support function to become a therapist and help someone work thru their attitude problem. (I've received three shipments from X-Treme. One box was beat to death by UPS but the product was perfect, one was delivered perfectly by a freight company, and one had damage on delivery - I opened a ticket, attached a photo, and received replacement parts no questions asked.)

Did you send pictures? Did you send the bike back? Did you get your refund? What ended up happening? How about putting pictures up here for us to see?

ArcticFox2's picture

Please keep in mind that X-Treme is very insistent about the customer not refusing a delivery. They will tell you to let them know of any problems and they will "make it right".

Unfortunately, nine times out of ten, X-Treme (Alpha Products Intl.) does not make it right. Either by sending replacement parts that aren't even for the item you ordered, stalling a customer until their item is out of warranty, never having the needed replacement part in stock, sending items via USPS when the customer paid for FedEx Overnight, closing or even deleting service tickets when a problem can't be solved... the list is mind numbingly long.

This company keeps passing the trouble buck as far as it can. And problems that arise are always someone else's fault; shipping company, customer voided warranty by opening things up while trying to find a fuse somewhere, the customer should've ordered the super-special shipping service with insurance, when we said there were 15 Black ones we meant we only had Pink and sent that colour to your customer, the problems you had with customer service was with "Bob"... he no longer works here... here's "Steve" (he'll only last a few weeks as well, before changing his name again).

Also, if the shipping companies actually trashed as many items as API says they do, they would be out of business by now. First it was UPS's fault. Then it was FedEx's fault. Then came DHL. Then went DHL. Now back to FedEx. Sounds fishy to me.

Now having the delivery driver wait for a signature until


1) you've opened the box,
2) inspected the contents,
3) assembled the parts,
4) aired up the tires,
5) charged the batteries,
6) installed a balancer,
7) taken the scoot for a test rides,
8) cycled through a few charging cycles,
9) checked the voltages of the batteries.....

... not going to happen. X-Treme / API needs to learn how to do honest and morally sound business with dealers and customers - THAT is the real issue that should be addressed. And *attitudes towards friends* will not help any of us, nor will pinning blame on a customer. ;)

it really does not concern me how many good shipments you or anyone got, i got 1 bad one. who says i can afford a camera? or have one because i dont and i borrowed one but it did not have good resolution 3 mega pixel didnt cut it. You want to see a picture of a bike not moving? whats that gonna solve? And i inspected the bike the day it came and i put it together. Didnt know who to contact since i didnt order it so it took some time to figure this out. frankly here my "friend" I dont care who where or what their mistake was just that it was theirs (the manufacturer). and when did i say the bike was built in iowa?? wherever the MANUFACUTER is is where it was built, and that is where the mistakes were made. likely looks to me like someone who put this thing together possibly was new to the job? Your full of false assumptions Mr. AndyH. Its quite simple I sell you something over the net tell you its all good you recive it it is not all good you want what you paid for not a big run around of who is to blame. I can tell you its not you the paying customer. if it was put in a box in china then how is anyone gonna know what is wrong with it or even see it till they get it and put it together?
dude this company is not getting any better and yes it has a bad name for a reason. They (extreme scooters/alpha products whoever they are) have an F rating with the better business bureau. My big mistake was not looking in to a company before purchasing anything from them. The bike is in route to be returned for refund minus unstated original shipping cost. This was the decision of the purchaser, not mine they want to get at least some of their money back while they can. Yes i will have an attitude of intolerance twards those who seek to take my money unjustly and try to give me the runaround and ignore my input and substiute it with their own assumptions. Not take my word but take my money. I think the F says it all.

ps wow arctic you type faster than me :) (not hard) this was a reply to AndyH's last post :) but looks like you beat me too it and i think yours is a better response than mine but similar in point.:)

it really does not concern me how many good shipments you or anyone got, i got 1 bad one.

Fair enough.

who says i can afford a camera? or have one because i dont and i borrowed one but it did not have good resolution 3 mega pixel didnt cut it.

Fantastic! Good on you! Post one of the pictures, OK? Three megapixels is more than enough. So is a $3 disposable. Some might think a $3 investment is worth it considering there's about $1600 at stake...

You want to see a picture of a bike not moving? whats that gonna solve? And i inspected the bike the day it came and i put it together. Didnt know who to contact since i didnt order it so it took some time to figure this out.

Yes. According to your story above, the company asked for pictures. It doesn't appear you provided any - good quality or not.

frankly here my "friend" I dont care who where or what their mistake was just that it was theirs (the manufacturer). and when did i say the bike was built in iowa?? wherever the MANUFACUTER is is where it was built, and that is where the mistakes were made. likely looks to me like someone who put this thing together possibly was new to the job?

IF your story is correct, then I completely agree with you. The MANUFACTURER is the one originally at fault. But the people you bought the bike from did not MANUFACTURE it. Do you understand the difference?

Your full of false assumptions Mr. AndyH. Its quite simple I sell you something over the net tell you its all good you recive it it is not all good you want what you paid for not a big run around of who is to blame.

I understand - and it's not a 'false assumption'. The only thing I know about your story is what you wrote. And it doesn't add up. YOUR STORY suggests that the company was trying to fix the problem - and changed their own policies to extend RMA limits and help with return shipping, even while you apparently refused to work with them. Look at what you wrote early in your story - it was ok for you to wait 20 days to contact the company, but then after taking your time (for whatever reason) you immediately demand that THEY jump thru hoops to make you happy. Dude - your entire story is one-sided! Do yourself a favor - buy ANYTHING from the store of your choice - a real brick and mortar store. Then walk outside into the parking lot, and yell at them for a refund. What do you think they'll do? How long will it take?

I can tell you its not you the paying customer. if it was put in a box in china then how is anyone gonna know what is wrong with it or even see it till they get it and put it together?

EXACTLY - How is anyone going to know?! This is the point!

The computer you're using? You probably have an operating system disk somewhere? If it's Windows, do you think ANYONE at Microsoft looked at the disk to make sure it wasn't scratched before sending it out? The disk wasn't made in Washington, and chances are it wasn't pressed in Washington.

The DVD player I bought from WalMart earlier? I can guarantee you that nobody at WalMart opened the box. It was made in China, the box was sealed, loaded into a container, put on a ship, unloaded and trucked to a warehouse, re-trucked to a store, bought by me and taken home. Who do you suggest I sue because it was bad? Who broke it? Who knows? Who cares?! I just want a DVD that works! I simply took the damn thing back to the store and got another one. Problem solved! How did I know I could do that? Because that's the store's policy! They told me how to do a return, they tell me what the process is. If I don't know their process, I go to the customer service counter and ask how to do it - then follow the directions! Simple!

For just a minute, I'm going to hire you to work in my warehouse. We import parts from Eastern Europe to resell to the North American market. We have 50,000 parts per year coming thru - that's 200 a day. Before close of business today, I want to see your plan for how we'll unload those items, open them, inspect them, return the defects, repack the good ones, and ship them to buyers. You MUST get the 200 processed each day - and gear up for more because we're growing 40% this year - so you might as well include the additional 80 parts in your plan.

(Google 'statistical process control' - that's right - even the military aircraft industry doesn't have 100% inspection... That means that very few parts are actually looked at...and that means that bad ones get thru. The system works because people work together to fix problems when they arise.)

dude this company is not getting any better and yes it has a bad name for a reason. They (extreme scooters/alpha products whoever they are) have an F rating with the better business bureau.

Maybe so. They also have satisfied customers - so they apparently can do something right some of the time. (You said you didn't check them out - how do you know they're not getting better?) Why did you buy from them then? If $3 for a disposable camera is too much, than why did you send this company as much money as you did?

My big mistake was not looking in to a company before purchasing anything from them.

Beautiful - NOW we're getting somewhere! I completely understand. And this, I think, is probably one of the best lessons you can take away from this educational experience. There isn't a single thing you can do in life that doesn't require that YOU do your due diligence.

Did you ever hear the saying that if you didn't vote you can't complain? According to your own words, you didn't do your homework, you didn't do your part after the sale, and you didn't even use your own money. Do you really think you have earned the right to complain?

I wish you well.
Andy

Im not going to bother arguing with you any further on this issue since its quite pointless to me to convince someone like you of anything. And once again you are full of false assumptions of an issue that you know little to nothing about other than what you can find in my posts to use as some kind of fuel for a self driven argument of something that has nothing to do with you. Ive heard your argument responded to them and you wish to continue as though i didn't say or respond to them. look up n00b on the urban dictionary you will find a description that you may recognize there. You must have alot of time on your hands to concern yourself so hardily :o good day.

read the ticket
zip the lip
I'm done
thanx

ArcticFox2's picture

I find it interesting that the problems with X-Treme / API do not just affect one customer, but seems to have a snowball effect - effectively pissing off several other people down the communications chain.

Thanks, X-Treme.

I find it interesting that the problems with X-Treme / API do not just affect one customer, but seems to have a snowball effect - effectively pissing off several other people down the communications chain.

Thanks, X-Treme.

Get off it, Chris. While the company certainly has their challenges, they're not at fault if someone decides to make it their life's work to carry a grudge.

I've accepted damaged property from deliveries in the past. That's MY bad - not the sender and not the carrier - I signed for the package. Yes - if a freight company destroys something in shipping, that's their problem. And if a vendor sends damaged property, that's their problem.

So - it still comes back to personal responsibility. If I buy without doing my homework, that's my bad. If I accept a delivery without inspection, that's my bad. If I take a month to report damage that I've found, that's my bad. And I just make my life worse by staying angry, acting like an a$$, and being generally unreasonable - that's my choice as well. Nobody can make me do anything!

Nobody wants to admit they made a mistake. It's not a happy thing. But they can learn from it, elect to do it differently next time, screw their face into something closer to a smile, and carry on. Or be a child and throw a tantrum.

We really only have two choices - we can curse the darkness or turn on a light - be part of the problem or part of the solution. Yeah - that's our choice, too.

I can completely empathize with the purhaser. Unless I missed something though, I cannot understand the lack of pictures.

That aside, this is a good and relevant example of how companies try to wear you down with their "policies". Oh, there real issure here is not policies, but the terrible quality that comes from China. I've researched this topic, repeatedly, and I am convinced they simply do not care, and will ship whatever they can to the US because it's so difficuly to get them to take responsibility for their actions.

I wish you the best. From now on I'd recommend taking the advice of the person who said to use a credit card (not debit), or a minimum use PayPal - worth the few bucks!!!

Finally, I'll do my best to post this link on my blog and the web overall, so that the X-treme people will have plenty of opportunities to explain their actions - or ignore the mounting venomous sentiment towards them.

VeloChef

Thank you VeloChef you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what they were doing trying to wear me down. Thanks for pulling this blog to yours. when they asked for pictures it was so they could send me the parts and make me tear the bike apart and fix it... I dont think so not less than a month after getting it and the condition it arrived in i was irritated to say the least! I dont own a camera i dont want to spend more money on this loss the bike stoped going so there was no point for me to further fuss with pics of a bike not moving. Um AndyH this is how we do to warn people.... you can kindly stop your little barrage of pointless fingerpointing I could do what you do and quote every statement and make my own attack but as i said Ive spent enough time in this argument with the proper people. I dont need to do it with you as well. BUT ;) here:

AndyH said:"We really only have two choices - we can curse the darkness or turn on a light - be part of the problem or part of the solution. Yeah - that's our choice, too."

this is our solution Mr.H so if your not part of the solution what does that make you according to your own words?? :o Really AndyH you need to look that word up i was telling you about.

oh one more sorry i couldnt help myself.

AndyH said:"While the company certainly has their challenges, they're not at fault if someone decides to make it their life's work to carry a grudge."

frist: it hasent even been 6 months let alone a whole lifetime. second: so your saying since the customer got upset that it no longer is because the company sent a bad product and that since the costomer is now upset that this somehow relieves the company of their defective merchandise or any responsibility to present good merchandise for good cash? Mr.AndyH if I catch you swindling someone I'm gonna tell the whole town. So they are aware of you, thats what a good citizen does.
ArcticFox2's picture

Get off it, Chris. While the company certainly has their challenges, they're not at fault if someone decides to make it their life's work to carry a grudge.

Excuse me, but I don't remember talking to you Steve. In a post of yours above, didn't you mention something about being friends here? If so, why do you insist on acting like a pain to everyone here?

.

We really only have two choices - we can curse the darkness or turn on a light - be part of the problem or part of the solution. Yeah - that's our choice, too.

You're really not being helpful, informative or friendly - thus, not offering a real solution other than playing X-Treme's "blame game". Try harder, k?

Iccarus's picture

My fuel gage went out and they sent me a new panel in about a week. I think that's pretty good. I've heard they're pretty good with supplying parts. It was under warranty and free of charge.

2008 XM3500li Mods/Kelly KBL12251/84v 28cell 40AH pack/ Variable regen brake trigger on left brake handle/Givi/Cycle Analyst/Homemade BMS

KMX Typhoon Home build (recumbent pedelec) with two Astro Brushless 3220motors/twin castle Phoenix ICEHV 160/ Cycl

Thats good to hear Iccarus I'm glad you got yours fixed with little trouble and for free..... however next time something goes out it will cost you shipping at least.
And your free fix was my whole point as well, my whole order was messed up and they should have ate their mistake in shipping cost to right the wrong rather than make a "financially low class" customer eat their inability to send properly inspected and good merchandise to their customers.
In conclusion to this transaction this party is out over $350.00 dollars for their efforts to purchase a product from this company. ($185.00 was the deduction for original shipping cost.) They received their bike and credited the purchase card minus original shipping cost and we had to pay the cost to ship the bike back to them. ($190.00 for return shipping.)


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