:?
Several members want to know, what can be done to increase the performance of the X-Treme Electric Scooters XB-508 (SPORT) Electric Bicycle (A Moped Scooter Motorcycle)?
Product Specifications:
Power: Electric
Watts: 550 Watt
Motor Type : Brushless Hub Motor - Motor is in center of rear wheel
Maximum Riders : Can ride 2 people at once
Amps: 56 Amp Circuit
Volts: 48 Volts
Batteries: 4 - 12 volts 14 AMP (Four batteries total) (48 Volts)
Tire Size: 16x2.5 on 16" Inch Aluminum Wheels
Charger: Smart Charger Included
Tool Kit: Included
Speed: 20+ mph* using motor power only - faster if you also pedal
Distance: Up to 20 - 25 miles per charge - can still pedal if charge is lost
Throttle Type: Variable speed control - Twist throttle on right grip
Key Start: Yes
Seat Kit Included: Yes
Storage Areas : Large area below seat + Large trunk + Small area near key
Braking System: Front and Rear brakes
Drive System: Rear Hub Motor (No Chains or belts) Motor is in rear rim.
Foldable: Partially - Remove front wheel for transport
Head Light: Yes (Dual Sport Headlight System)
Tail Light: Yes
Brake Light: Yes
Blinkers: Yes
Suggested Max Weight: 300 lbs
Measurements: Wheel to wheel 66" - Max Width 27" - Seat Height 34"
Carton Size (LxWxH): 62"x17"x37" LxWxH
Scooter In Box Weight: 120 Lbs
Scooter Weight: 105 Lbs
Electric Horn: Yes
Spring Loaded Seat: Yes
Speedometer: Yes
Battery Indicator: Yes
Cargo Rack: (Included) Storage box with key included, but does not need to be installed. Your choice!
Ignition Key & Storage
Storage Under The Seat
Dual Shocks - 550 Watt Hub Motor
Front Wheel & Drum Brakes
Sport Front End & Dual Lights
Rear Trunk Box With Lock
Dash & Speedometer
Chain Guard Shocks & Pedals
I'm sure with some creative engineering you could find some more space for batteries to increase the range. Increasing acceleration or top speed is trickier because you have to wonder how many volts the controller and motor can take. Still and all, I think the biggest problem is the woefully undersized 550 watt motor. I don't think there is anything that can be done about this. I found the 2000 watt motor on the EMax barely sufficient.
The specs say "hub motor", but one of the pictures clearly shows a chain going to the back wheel. Does anyone know what this is for? Is the hub motor not mounted into the rear wheel?
--
Full time ebiker
BionX and Wilderness Energy
"we must be the change we wish to see in the world"
`
A old E Biker like you should know, it's for the pedals. I was interesting in changing my front sprocket a larger one, but when Chas looked at it, he said there was not enough room to accommodate a larger sprocket. While moving you pedals 100 mph, and still don't really have that much effect on a hill. It does show the cars behind me I'm trying, so they go around if there is enough room or I can pull to the side.
Peace Out,
Gman
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Gman
I asked a similar question a week ago but no one replied. Perhaps it was my wording?
Anyway, I have the XB500 which is 500 watts as opposed to 550. Everything else seems about the same. I have to say that the range on my scooter is pretty good: I can go 20 miles on a charge no problem, I just can't go faster than 15 to 20 mph which is too slow to be practical for getting around in a timely manner. (Even my 11 year old son is bored with it already) The option of trying a bigger controller was suggested to me but I haven't tried it yet and I would be curious to hear from someone else that has tried this.
Some of my observations:
The peddles are almost useless except for getting up hills. They are absolutely essential for hills. Without them you just couldn't get up any but the gentlest of grades. They are also mounted in the wrong place so ergonomically they are teh suck. And no, there is no room for a bigger front sprocket and the only way I can see to correct this is to radically modify the frame or some sort of elaborate side extension configuration that I have no idea how to build. The plastic body is held together with sheet metal screws and after three months held together OK but the peddle shaft is made of too soft of a metal and after three months of daily use the right side would not stay on and the shaft is bent so are both peddles but like I said, without them you won't get up too many hills so this is a problem. The seat latch has also broken off because it's plastic fitting into a metal locking mechanism. The "scooter" styling also caused problems with some overzealous cops. I personally don't need that so I stripped all the plastic off and am attempting to make it look as bike like as possible.
The idea I am currently rolling around in my head is to replace the hub motor with an EVT 1500 watt and new batteries and controller. Since no one has tried this yet that I have seen I guess I will be a test case. If anyone is interested I could post some pictures of my project.
From what I have gathered by reading the specs on the EVT 168 it uses 4 12v 50amp batteries. The XB500 has 4 12v 14amp batteries. I am guessing I will need to find room for four 50 amp batteries. Is this correct? Anyone know? Anyway, The Extreme scooters are not built for long term use but they are the cheapest entry into electric scooting of this style of scooter. The electronics all work fine although mine arrived with rear lights not working. I will attempt to get those working but will probably replace the head lights because they are mounted in the plastic shroud that I have removed.
`
Your trying to decide what to do with my cheap piece of crap plastic XB500 post was very clear, some how it was probably accidentally missed.
The X Treme XB 500 and XB 508 are basically the same, other than what they call a Sporty style for the XB 508, and supposedly 50 watts more power which I doubt very seriously. We probably should include them both.
Peace Out,
Gman
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Gman
I don't think they should be together. My experience with the XB-508 does not leave me feeling at all that it is a cheap piece of crap. I ride mine around 20 miles many days and think $600 is reasonable for what it is. I believe the frame is different than the XB-500, the amps are higher and the range is better. The body parts are plastic and the batteries are smaller than higher end scooters. Will an XB-508 or XM-2000 last 3+ years if you treat it right yes! I'm betting the frame is actually the same as the Z-20, E runner 220 and Kasea ZE1500 & ZE2000. The fact is X-Treme is good quality for China and the price, if you want better you have to spend $2,200++
Take a look at the e-max out of Germany (not available in the states) http://www.emax-ltd.com/ it looks to be the best e-scooter being built right now. I'm guessing if it was available in the states the price would be $6,000+
cheap fun
Hello People,
I guess that I will also be a test case for the xb-508. I do plan on getting a 1200 watt 48V motor - using the same batteries and controller that I already have in it. This will limit my range and may make it do 30mph but I do want to keep it street Legal. I read that in California the moter can not be over 1500 watts or (2 HP) and go over 30 MPH or it is no longer considered a moped and must be registered with DMV. I'll keep u all informed how it's going.
The Liberty sounds like a better bike but It's too late now to look back.
Best, CWW
`
Can you tell us where you can get a 1200 watt 48V Brushless Hub Motor that you plan to use?
Peace Out,
Gman
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Gman
The Liberty is a beter bike in stock form but more expensive and heavier so I think the XB-508 is a better choice for making into a 30 mph e-bike.
What motor are you buying to replace the 508's 550w motor?
cheap fun
`
In order to keep as close as possible on Topic, we'll just concentrate on the XB-508 here ok.
Does anyone have any specs on the Brushless Hub Motor used on the XB-508, size, diam, width, etc?
One source may be the vendor where you purchased your XB-508, the other may be a member like Chasthat has used motors from several XB 500's.
FWIW, I believe he would have done a upgrade on the three XB 500's if he felt they were worth it.
Since it also seems there is a connection between X-Treme and Erato some parts may be interchangeable.
Peace Out,
Gman
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Gman
`
Would something like this work?
Hub Motor
Model No.: H1500
Product Origin: China
Brand Name: Unite
Payment Terms: T/T
Minimum Order: 50pcs
Delivery Lead Time: 15 days
Detailed Product Description
Features:
1) 1,500W 48V rim motor
2) Speed: 700rpm
3) Rim sizes: 3 x 10", 3.5 x 10"
4) Brushless
5) Applied to electric motorcycles and electric golf carts
Inner packing:
Boxes
Outer packing:
Cartons
LB37-48V Controller
Type： LB37
Voltage： 24V/36V/48V
Power： 800W-1500W
Outlet Current： 10-30A
Underpressure： 20±0.5 V/31±0.7V/41±1.0V
Size： 11.1×6.9×3.8
Contact Information
Company Name: Shenzhen Unite Industries Co.
Contact Person: Zhongfeng Li
Address: No. 309, Huaxuan Building, Haibin Plaza, Jintian Road, Shenzhen City, Guangdong Province. China
Zip: 518038
Telephone: 86-755-88301448
Mobile Phone: 86-13352938056
Fax: 86-755-88306448
Website: http://www.cn-dcmotors.com
http://www.cn-dcmotor.com
http://cn-dcmotors.en.alibaba.com
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
If you're not using the pedals, you might add another electric motor to drive the chain. If it had an overrun clutch, you could size it for acceleration and let the native motor take over at higher speed.
Also, scraping all those go-fast decals off should lighten it up an add at least 5mph.
Changing out the motor, controller, and batteries is going to cost plenty. A 1500 watt motor will be sucking amps at 30A. That's a 2C rate, and will put you well down Peukert's curve.
BTW, do you have costs and a reliable source for that hub motor? I'd consider that if my 700W hub motor dies. For the range I need, my 18Ah batteries would work.
MF
The LB-37 controller is a good one but it is for brushed motors.
`
Can you give us more details or explain
I noticed the 1,500W 48V rim motor was mfg by Unite, don't know yet if it's the same Zhejiang Unite Electric Motor Co Ltd. If so they are normally pretty good replying to inquires.
Exporting Sales Office
Address：#309, Huaxuan Building, Habin Plaza, Jintian Road
Zip Code: 518109
Contact Sales:
Zhongfeng Li (Sales) Tel: 0086-755-88301448 13352938056 Fax: 0086-755-88306448
Ting Li (Manager) Tel: 0086-755-28146802 13302482560 Fax: 0086-755-28157705
http://www.unitemotor.com/
e-mail: sales [at] unitemotor.com
BTW, I'm just trying to facilitate the conversation, I'm content for now with "Dancing with the one that brung me." I do have a 48 Volt Main in the floor board and a 48 Volt auxiliary under the seat, so I could increase my Voltage if needed.
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
`
Another 48V 1500W Hub Motor
Serial number： JZEM205
Name of product： HUB MOTOR FOR E-MOTOTCYCLE
Description of products：
Specification 10寸
Voltage 48V
Power 500~1500W
Efficiency ≥85%
WenLing jiuzhou electromechanical.co.,ltd
Add: Zeguo Air Compressor Industrial Zone ,taizhou City ,
Zhejiang Province ,china
Tel: +86-576-64022558 6402293 (domestic Trade)
+86-576-6049955 ( International Trade)
Fax: +86-576-6402299
Http://www.cnjzdj.com cnjzdj.en.alibaba.com
E-mail: info [at] cnjzdj.com chen_zhangcong [at] yahoo.com.cn
Ninecontinent industry(TaiWan)Co.,ltd
ADD : Flat C,19/F., Eton Building, 288 Des Voeux
Road Central, H.K.
TEL：（00852）82260348
FAX：（00852）82086179
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
Thanks for all the info about hub motors these look great. I haven't gone to too much trouble looking for a motor yet but ran into some web sites which I'm including in this update. A 1500 watt 48 v may work.
See http://www.scootersupport.com/scootermods.htm for an overhaul of a X-treme scooter not the 508 but just to give u ideas.
Also See http://www.scootersupport.com/partsalternative.htm for some other ideas about motors, gears and rewinding the motor wires.
I will not do all this but if someone else wants to here is the data.
Best, CWW
`
Thanks, I've seen those before, but forgot where I saw them. Brushless Hub Motors at first glance seem nice and quite, but it's not very much you can really do with them in my opinion as far as simple mods.
For about $500 worth of stuff I could move up to 800W, but add several hundred more and I could purchase a new one, so the math doesn't work for me.
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
`
cheap fun,
I overlooked your earlier post.
I did a lot of research, since I was thinking about becoming a Dealer.
Most China E Scooters look similar, but there are low end and high end mfg. X-treme was once considered a low end.
The Luyuanis considered high end, but the cost including shipping put the price too high for what people here would pay. They wanted something for there child, so I looked at becoming a Dealer for X-Treme, mainly the X-Treme? X-560
· Electric Scooter Deluxe
· 36 Volts (3 Batteries, not 2)
· 500 Watt Powerful Motor
· 30 AMP Circuit
· 13" Wheels | 4 Colors
· Folds Easily For Transport
Starting Price: $280.00 (10 lot)
I completed all the paper work, and just needed to change my original web site, and decided to see if they received a lot of complaints.
From Electric Scooter World then go to Certification.
Georgia Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs
http://www.complaints.com/directory/2006/march/21/48.htm
http://struggleville.blogs.com/home/2006/02/xtreme_scooters.html
http://www.scooterbbs.com/board/DCForumID13/360.html
There are many more, maybe they have changed, we just have to wait and see.
I'm sure the Z-20, E runner 220 and Kasea ZE1500 & ZE2000 are considered high end also, unsure about the XM-2000, they had it on there site for over a year, but never could provide a picture, and now there seems to be problem with the VIN stuff.
When you talk to the mfg in China, the basic E Scooter start at about $150.00 FOB there port, they can add what ever you request for about $50.00 more, the problem is getting a whole container of junk you can't sell and are stuck with. If X-Treme was not honoring it's warranty, then I would be stuck with refunding the customer's money and paying for the shipping to return it. So I'm still looking around for a Company I can feel comfortable with.
X-Treme says the XB 500 and XB 508 are basically the same.
My China Batteries did find the first year, then I probably made some mistakes the first Winter, and they started to explode on me. I now have B&B Battery EB12-12 12 Volt 12.0 AH and they out perform the original Batteries by far, and they are only 12AH not 14AH as the originals.
The E Max was already here, and went under, leaving owners more or less stranded. $6000 is way high, and I don't know how many people will trust them again. I'll let others chime in on the E Max. http://visforvoltage.org/search/node/E+Max
If X-Treme has actually improved, I'll reconsider becoming a Dealer, but other than you I can't find many people that remain satisfied with them after the first year. I think one fellow even said his 12 year old son is now bored with the XB-500.
Peace Out,
Gman
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Gman
`
Well I spent some time this morning chatting with a friend in China that's in the Business, and asked him about the 1500W 48V Brushless Hub Motor. I showed him what you all had. His only reply was they are called Bikes in China, so you may have to look for E Bike replacement parts, and I've never seen a 1500W E Bike.
I have a couple of more friends that are in the business in China I could check with if your still interested. I really believe 800 W is going to be the max.
Peace Out,
Gman
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Gman
`
I also have a friend that sells these:
E-006
Battery capacity:48V/20AH
Starter system:electric start
Wheel size: 120/70 12inch
Motor power: DC Brushless 500 Watt - 48 Volt
Max Range: 40 miles/70 km Per Charge
Transmssion mode :chain
Brake mode: drum
Speed: 40 km/h
Max load: 180kg
Rated voltage: 110/220V
If I remember correctly they could make it 2000W for a extra cost. I wasn't interested because it wasn't a Hub Motor, knowing what I know now, maybe the way to improve it is to add a Motor like some one suggested earlier and remove the pedals and sprocket.
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
[/b][/b]
Peace Out, <img src="http://tinyurl.com/ysafbn">
Gman
Gman,
If you add a motor you will have to add a controller as well. You can only run one (1) brush less motor on a controller at a time. Remember the rotational position of the motor tell the controller, through the hall sensors, which coil to energize to turn the motor. It is not possible to sync two (2) brush less motors when one (1) is in the wheel and the other drives a chain with a freewheel.
The best way I can think of would be to replace the rear hub motor with a new scooter wheel with a sprocket. Drive the sprocket from a motor replacing the pedals. An ETek would make your bike/scooter run like a rocket. Going up hills would seem like you had a tail wind, and traffic would have to part for you to open it up. The insane-a-cycle comes to my mind.
Chas S.
My Bicycle Pages
`
Chas,
When this started, I wasn't interested in doing anything with mine, I was content to Dance with the one that brung me doing the Missouri Waltz.
Now I'm considering it. I just finish chatting with him, he has access to a 800 and 1000 watt for the model shown in the picture, but I didn't get a price yet.
As far as my Luyuan, if you remember, there was not that much space in the area of the crank so I had thought of the Etek but the cost is too high, and all I really need is a little more power for hills etc. If I do anything it will be much latter if at all, I'm still thinking about doing the E Bike.
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
Gman,
At this point in time I think the e-bike is the best way to go. The ability to pedal when the batteries are down or to help up large hills is the big plus at this time. The cost is another factor, a bike is normally much less. I think the scooters are going to get there at which time they may be the better choice but for now my money is on e-bikes / e-trikes.
For those who disagree I have no problem with that after all we are all entitled to our opinion, lets just keep EVs rolling.
Chas S.
My Bicycle Pages
`
After I was hassled by a young Policeman the last time right after you were over here sold me. Both times have been on Watson which I always use. St Louis has this new poorly written law few people know about, and it's very unclear. It was aimed at Pocket Bikes, and has to do with the height of the seat off the ground. My E Scooter is not covered for several reasons, size, HP etc. The Police can not only issue a citation, but they can confiscate the Scooter if your under 18 and don't have proof of ownership with you. I'm sure that's aimed at stolen Scooters under 49cc with no plates. The problem is they are using the law to hassle people. That's the main reason I leave my pedals on, and make it look like I'm using them when ever I see a Policeman. This time the Officer was behind me somewhere in a distance. With my new Batteries I ride more in the Traffic lane if there is no traffic if I have a left turn coming up, well he saw me cross over and get on the sidewalk in front of my house. I told him it was a Bike, he looked down and said no it was a motorized scooter, I needed a Flag on it, could not use the sidewalk at all ever etc. I was wearing a Helmet, so he couldn't say anything about that. Since he had a women partner, I knew he wasn't going to be convinced and just said ok. You know the area I live in, so I don't care to be continually hassled at my age. Now I go all the way to the end of my one way street west to come back east to get to Watson, and I'm only 2 doors from Watson.
It's not safe to try and ride a fairly slow E Scooter that looks like a small Vespa, as a motorized Scooter. I'll get the big flag, and try and stay off the sidewalk if possible by waiting if there is fast moving traffic etc.
I only found out about the law from the local Petrol Scooter List, one of them was harassed by a Policemen that threaten to take his Scooter, then they did some research and found the Ordinance, but it never was voted on for some reason as far as we can tell last year. They are also receiving tickets for parking on the sidewalk in the CWE. You saw where I park in front of my house on the sidewalk, so I won't be surprised if I receive a citation from the same Policeman one day. He might say I told you to stay off the sidewalk, and now I'm having it removed for blocking the sidewalk, you can retrieve it when you pay the fine and show proof of ownership etc. When they finish with it, I wouldn't want it back.
Then there is the year long battle with Metro to get to carry it aboard the Metrolink, there Head of Security finally said no, even after I sent copies and links to all the Federal stuff that it was a Bike, and sent them a picture of it showing the pedals. They finally said there Security people would be confused, so no Electric would be allowed, not even Bikes and would make those changes in there written rules. Well they still read the same, and people are still encouraged to bring there Bikes on the Metrolink.
I can ride in the Midnight Ramble because I have Pedals, Go Figure.
In my younger days I would probably do something to bring attention to the problem, but as far as I know there are are only a few of us in the STL. This is the one thing I didn't figure on before I made the purchase, and my change of heart at becoming a Dealer.
So for me it will be a E Bike somewhere in my future, and one of the many people that say they will buy my E Scooter right now, will own a used E Scooter.
Sorry for all the off topic stuff, but I feel others need to know some of the unknown problems that come with small E Scooters. Municipalities are going after kids on those Pocket Bikes, and small E Scooters are getting caught up in it since they have very little knowledge about E Scooters etc. Law enforcement selectively uses those ordinances to hassle people when ever they want. I have a Bill of Sale showing I purchased the E Scooter, but there is no VIN etc. so that's also a potential problem if the Police ever confiscate it. One officer interested in my E Scooter told me the they have a lot of them at the Station that people never claim. I might go to the next Police Auction to check some of them out for parts etc.
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
Just a quick clarification - The Xtreme 500 is *not* similar to the Xtreme 508. It is made entirely of steel and aluminum and looks more like a Razor than a full-size scooter. It is probably the best built Xtreme product, and I have had one for some time now with no problems. It is the X-500 that Electric Scooter World reviewed, not the X-508.
One more thing - The XB500 is not the same as the X500.
`
decibel1,
Sorry, I thought I made that clear, I'm aware the X500 is a stand up Scooter, I was referring to the XB-500 which X-Treme says on there own Web Site
There words not mine.
Back in the day X-Treme was know for selling junk, now it seems they may have changed. Without people like you and others speaking out many of us would have never know they seem to be improving. I remember hearing complaints about them breaking at the welds with kids 12 yrs old on them, and X-Treme failed to honor there warranty.
Do you know if anyone has had a problem with them honoring there warranty?
As I said now I might have to take a second look at X-Treme.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, FWIW I'm also aware Jerome was testing the X-500, the XB and others were not even out yet.
So do you have any problems with the performance of yours?
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
What can be done to improve perfoormance?
Not alot. It is a bicycle. You want motorcycle performance convert a scrap frame motorcycle to an electric one.
You can do the following.
Either rebuild the controller with better Fets and capacitors to handle higher amperage and voltage, or get a better one controller. Install an air blower to keep the controller cool.
Rewire the batteries to increase voltage from it's current 36 or 48 to 60,72,84, or 96 volts. You can do this by adding a second battery pack under the seat and make both packs ONE pack thus a higher voltage. This again requires RE-WIRING the battery packs.
The motor will need cooling at these higher stats. You MIGHT be able to run forced air in through the axel where the wires go in. You can add aluminum heat sinks to the hub. Make sure to use locktight!!
You will need to replace the throttle as that is how it is speed capped.
Be very aware that you are over taxing the motor and electonics, but if you learn how to rebuild the controller repairing it is easy. The motor on the other hand...... You might want to add in a thermocouple so you know how hot the motor gets so you can shut down or go to lower performance when needed. The STRENGTH of the motor will not increase just it's top speed. So get a good run up to a hill and DON'T over tax the motor on climbs. REDUCE THROTTLE when climbing for a speed setting of about 12mph once the motor starts to strain and pedal. If possible make the air being forced into the motor chilled air. Be aware that rapid cooling can crack your magnets.
Yes you can add a second motor to drive the pedal crank shaft removing the functionality of the pedals but that will nullify it's legality as a bicycle. You could keep the pedals attached to the chain and only use the second motor for more power on hill climbs and thus move your feet off the pedals when you turn that motor on, since the motor will probably drive the pedals faster than you can.
Your pedals are too low and probably striking the pavement. Extend your shocks with longer replacements if possible, or remove the side pedals and do some mechanical work to convert them to padle boat pedals sitting atop where the underfoot batteries are. At the very least install shorter length pedals arms.
Always Always Always keep a copy of the local electric bicycle laws and ordinances with you and a camera/phone to record your encounters with police. Remember police are the enforces or corporate rule. They will make it hard on you to get out from under the thumb of big oil dependance.
`Lessss .
That fellow at eride ca, that did some mods, and was in Jail for awhile for riding his Dog, is he still around?
Peace Out,
Gman
Now that we have clarified our beliefs, your invited to join us as we begin building on them to define our Community Mission Statement
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Gman
Havna clue, opposite coast,
Re the reply from Lesss:
This needs to be added to the "ready reference" pages!
MarkF
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