Hello Bionx community,
I have recently (April 2009) taken delivery of PL350 (took three months from time of ordering - but that's another story), and, apparently the mine has new Bionx motor and control system. I know this to be the case after many telephone calls to Bionx, Alex explained that the delay was due to implementing the new technology in the motor and automotive type control system for 2009. Now, of course the first thing I attempted to undertake was to remove the 32kms (I'm in Vancouver) speed limitation. I did the code thing (3773 - changed the 1 to 0....), but still the thing tops out at 32kms, even when unloaded (ie. real wheel off the ground). I then changed the code for the wheel diameter (from 26" to 18"), the thing then just topped out at 23kms, although I suspect the actual wheel RPM's are the same. Can anyone help.....have Bionx effectively restricted the motor RPM to keep everything nice and legal, is there a "hack" - can anyone help!!!!
Max
Hi Max,
I am (well, my bike shop is) waiting delivery of my new PL350 system which is supposed to arrive "any day now" according to Bionx. I haven't heard anything or seen anything on the Bionx website about new motor / controller technology. Can you provide or point to any details?
Thanks,
Rob
Hey Rob,
Thanks for the reply. I ordered mine from a local Vancouver dealer back in Jan, took till one week ago to finally arrive. I called and e-mailed Bionx consistently for the past couple of months, asking where my PL350 was. The excess they always gave was that this "new" motor and control code system was having production issues. The only details I can give are as I said, these did however come directly from the chaps at Bionx. Now, looking at my motor I can't see anything different form the old one. However, the control system from what I've read here (Visforvolt) and other blog sites seems VERY DIFFERENT. Mine, gives full power up to 25kms, then slowly throttles back until at 32kms the motor is not assisting at all. None of this pulsing at 32kms business that others have described (old control system?). This is all well and good, but (on a good day) I hold 32kms with NO assistance required from the Bionx.....what I was hoping for was with an unrestricted system my (human powered) 32kms cruising speed would give me 40kms plus cruising. My system gives me great acceleration and hill climbing ability, but NO increase in cruising speed to speak of....and I'm not happy with this. Again, Alex at Bionx talked me into the PL350 over the PL500....I'm not so sure now that this was good idea? So, back to my original question, how can i hack this thing to give full assist at higher speeds? Anyone? Please?
Max
How are you measuring the max speed? I'm awaiting delivery of a PL350 and i was hoping it could help me sustain a 30KPH average UP hill. I can do 30Kph on the flat, but it would be nice if it was easier some days ;-)
Does the controller look any different? If so, do you have a pic? Thanks.
Hi adamtki and MinVan,
well guys, it only gets worse. The controller looks the same, but it's now black instead of white. Now, more problems have arisen with my system in the last few days. The pedal assist now surges uncontrollably, as if it's been possessed, makes the bike very difficult to ride, feels like the brakes are being applied randomly, but it's just the assist ramping up and down erratically, this can be seen on the console bar display and felt through the knees, particularly noticeable on hill whilst peddling at a constant torque (or trying to - aww!), not so apparent at higher speeds, but then the system doesn't do much anyway past about 28km/s anyway. Then yesterday, the system went into some sort of re-gen mode (whilst riding), only it showed up as assist. I could hardly move the rear wheel - also, there was also vibration that accompanied and had the bike shuddering while moving - weird, the rear wheel was locked even when stationary. I had to shut the thing off and re-boot to allow the rear wheel to spin again. Then today, I did a curb hop, probably at less than 5 km/s and over a 4 inch high curb, the bloody thing took off at max power, and here was me trying to grab the brake and narrowly missing a pedestrian. Finally, hitting the re-gen (on the rear brake) stopped it. Personally, I'm trying to return mine and and get a full refund, it's now 10 days old and has a total disappointment all around, my buddy has the pre-2009 version, and that what I figured I was getting, sadly, the 2009 version is a very poor product in my humble opinion, both in design and reliability, I suspect it required much more development before hitting the market. I would not recommended this product. Sorry guys.
Max.
MiniVan, Sorry, I missed your question. Going by my system, the only way you'd hold 30km/s up a hill is is you did 90% of the leg work yourself. The Bionx has some sort of software driven soft power-down restriction going on(that in my system so far cannot be switched off - unlike the pre-2009 model). I would estimate from my own empirical measurements (my legs) and from the power gauge it goes something like this: up to 23/24km/s full power is available, then at 25km/s = 95% power assist, 26 = 85%, 27 = 65%, 28 = 50%, 29 = 30%, 30 = 10%, 31 = 2%, 32 = 0% assist. Trouble is, and it is beyond me as to what the engineers at Bionx were thinking here, I for one typically ride at speeds between 28 - 34 km/s making the system worse than useless - past 30km/s it's really making it's added weight and drag (this system cannot free-wheel) felt, therefore, Bionx in effect makes me slower.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Max
Even with the 20mph speed limit, the Bionx should make your overall average speed higher with less work (assuming there are some hills).
I bought my first Bionx in 2006. It was the PL250. I really loved it even though it seems to cap out in assist around 24mph after I removed the speed limiter. Around 24/25, it was actually harder for me to go faster than if I used a regular bike.
In 2008, I bought the PL500HS. It's the high speed model and I would HIGHLY recommend it to anyone wanting to go faster than 20mph since it's designed to go at the faster speeds. I can generally cruise at 23/24 mph at an 18mph regular bike effort and can push myself to go 32mph on the flats if I need to.
With both models, I never had any reliability problems even though I rode year around for commuting (rain or shine).
Sorry you got a lemon, but it really is a great product. Hopefully, you can get a working model or your money back.
I have been in contact with BionX, and they have been very responsive of the behavior) They have stated quite clearly that using the throttle you can achieve 32Kph on the flat before the motor caps the speed.
Bionx
The PL-350 should have no problem taking you to 32 Km/h and maintaining that speed , at that speed the motor will stop accelerating - speed will reduce under 32 Km/h , then the motor will accelerate again to 32 , and so on .
Also they talked about the changes this year
Bionx
The improvement for 2009 , new communication protocol CAN bus , same used in the automotive industry , more reliable and stable . New motor control SIN-drive which translate in much smoother power application in both assistance and regeneration modes eliminating vibrations .
From reading your post it seems you have a defective unit. Are you that unhappy that you are not prepared for it to be replaced?
Thanks very much for posts... it's good to get this kind of information.
Hi Fellow Voltage Folk,
I had a long conversation with Alex at Bionx today, where I voiced many of my issues regarding the 09 Bionx. He was very sympathetic to my concerns, many of which he suggested were caused by altering the 3773 code on the command console to turn off the 32km/s restriction. Where this would have worked on the pre-09 PL350, there is little point attempting it on the post-09 version since it makes no difference to the max speed, however, it could potentially cause your system to misbehave in a number of ways, as I have explained in my previous messages.
I have to admit, (sorry Bionx), maybe I was a little too quick off the gun to be so critical of Bionx so fast, however, I had just spent a ton of money and wasn't getting what I expected for it. Alex, has promised me now that he'll work through my issues to my satisfaction. Cool....and I'll keep you updated.
Therefore, I'm now going to switch my code back to "1" (3773 - mode) this weekend, I have a 60kms ride on Saturday, I'll see if this clears up the auto assist problems and high speed re-gen (braking)coming on.
Of course, I chose the Bionx system after much research, and many of the good points are still very relevant, light weight, great user interface, high quality of manufacture, seamless integration (it still feels like a bicycle to ride) and ease of use are still very much true. It also "kicks ass" off the line and climbs hill with ease, if we can sort out the the way it reduces power in the 25 - 31 km/s zone (new software code maybe?), plus, and I'm hoping that the other issues go away with the speed code re-set to the factory setting, I still think that this can potentially be a great product.
Cheers,
Max
I have a 350 '09 version. Just did hop up onto a curb and the bike took off, left me in a heap on the sidewalk. Is this a common problem? I now have a grazed kneed and sore palm and feel stoopid for falling off my bike... first time in a long time.
Hey MiniVan,
We should get together for coffee sometime and compare bikes and stories. That would be a definitive YES to the power surge on bumps, I have several stories too, and one is way better than yours even, but I'm not prepared to go into detail right now on this point. One very positive development, with the help of the very knowledgeable Alex at Bionx, I (we) think that the mystery of the crazy erratic power assist has been solved, and my knees will be forever thankful. It seems that the little slot on the axle has somehow twisted forward...I'm guessing the dealer either put in wrong or left it too loose? I think you need a special tool to adjust it back? And here is another one to look out for, the wiring coming out of the hub motor is getting chewed up by the bolts that secure the disc break, I think probably all Bionx owners should check for this one.
So I'm curious, do you guys who own the 2009 Bionx feel the vibrations when you hit the brakes or go up a steep hill?
I noticed on the instructions about a slot being at 6 o'clock when i install it, but I assume it was the 'key' that locks the motor in the dropout. And that is nearly at 6'oclock. I can't check that at the moment as i have an issue with the throttle not working (assist works fine). I've taken it back to the shop. They are checking it over with BionX tomorrow.
Maybe that might explain the weird behaviour of the bike stalling on my ride home and going into regen. A few seconds later it fixed itself and all was back to normal... it says exactly 6 o'clock in the fitting instructions.
You can see the log here https://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/workoutdetail/index.do?id=952827 you can see at lap 10 @ 20min26sec the assist, hence speed drops right off for no reason, and then returns back to 26Kph climbing speed. ((click the altitude check box when loaded to compare speed with climb))
I did ride my bike to work for the first time today. It great as i can get 32.KPH on the flat and about 26KPH on the steeper climbs. I too would like it if i could move the assist to be more centered around 28-30Kph on the climbing. Though I suspect that would reduce range. I only used 1/3 of my battery so not an issue. My commute time was not much faster but really was a lot less effort. It would be good to do the route with a heart rate monitor on as well. to get a good comparison.
you can see the unassisted route here (click the altitude check box when loaded to compare speed with climb)
https://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/workoutdetail/index.do?id=936804 (look @ lap 6 14min22sec)
and the same route assisted here
https://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/workoutdetail/index.do?id=950970 (look @ lap 5 11min15sec)
I'm not sure if you can better fine tune the system for higher cadence, I much prefer a cadence of 80RPM - 90RPM.
Anyway, I hope to get my bike back soon and I can check out the slot (PS: It states you can move it with a slot style screw driver in the manual)
@adamtki: I only noticed vibrations once on my two commutes of 14Kms. The power delivery seems very smooth, and the wall at 32Kph feels like a smooth increase in weight on the bike as the assist cuts out.
@maxrevs: I received my bike back from the dealer and they had resolved some controller issues. Throttle wasn't working and the LCD contrast was flickering. Anyway, i checked the notch and mine is between 4 and 5 o'clock. I have emailed BionX for comment on it's importance. It will be interesting to find out what it's significance is. I will move it to the 6 o'clock postion, but i need a gear puller before that can be done... hopefully I can get that at the weekend..
Send me personal message on this forum, and i'll send you my email address...
It seems BionX are happy to help. Let's hope we can find a more critical setup of the unit for our riding styles.
Bionx makes a puller specifically for the job of notch alignment. My dealer had one. The following might be helpful:
"You can also do this yourself with a tool from most auto parts stores. Google "3 jaw puller" look for a smaller one. The puller must be kept vertical. I have done this with a puller from Advance Auto Parts. It was slightly tricky to position the wheel and the puller, having a friend help would make it easier, but with some care it will work. Striking the center plunger bolt end with a mallet when the puller is fully tensioned also helps to loosen the part. It will come off with a sharp "pop." Then position everything on the bike. When you retighten the axle nut, the part with the key will seat itself automatically."
You're dealing with a conical press fit in the axle. Thus the "pop."
@maxrevs: Have you found that since you have adjusted the notch to be aligned correctly that the 3773 code set to '0' removes the upper limit of the speed without issue? ie the issue was related to the torque sensor feeding back incorrect information due to the alignment and not BionX removing this feature from the console?
@sandorszabo: I purchased a 2 jaw puller from canadian tire today, but it would not pull straight enough to get the part loose without damaging something. You definitely need a 3 jaw (or arm) puller as you say. It also needs a fairly low profile to fit between behind the part to be pulled. (The person in canadian tire said the had none, and i couldn't find one :( )
Personally, I would recommend one of two options if the notch on your BionX notch in the axle is not pointing directly south at 6 o'clock.
1) go to a BionX dealer. They will have a special tool and can fix it in 10 mins
2) If you can't do that... go to a mechanic shop and they will either have a tool that will work or can make one up quite quickly. Probably only cost a few dollars. It's better than damaging the BionX axle.
Woo hoo !!!! finally ... after 5 months of waiting, finally got mine.
I tried it last fall on my dealer's demo bike and promised myself I'd get it this year.
I got the new Platform too and your are right.. it is RPM limited at 32khr.
However it runs so much smoother it's incredible. Try hitting the regen-brake.
I barely notice the e-brake vs mechanical brake difference where my dealer's bike
last year was vibrating much more.
Seems like Villager bike dealers are able to update the bikes software... i hope this gets available
on our side of the atlantic
Gone riding !
"Seems like Villager bike dealers are able to update the bikes software... i hope this gets available
on our side of the atlantic"
Can you please let me know where you got this information?
Thanks.
No....I have my eZee powered by a 48 volt 15 amp/hr li-fe-po4 ping, it's amazing.....
I think the "taking off" when you hop a curb could very well stem from the notch (torque sensor) mispositioning. You'll then get some vertical acceleration vectored into the sensor as if you were pedaling. Hopefully, after fixing the sensor orientation that wouldn't happen again.
After reading about it in another forum, I went ahead and tried the 3773 setting. I had thought that the reports here made it pointless, but in fact it allowed my system to increase speed. Previously, my bike would top out with the throttle at indicated ~17mph. With the setting =0, it made it to indicated ~18-19mph. I think the PL-350 just isn't set up to go faster by electric only (eg. back emf limited). The PL-500HS is configured differently to allow higher RPM. The main difference, however, is it kept assisting when pedaled faster. Previously, it would start cutting back periodically in the (indicated) 15-17mph range. Now, it seemed happy to continue with assist no matter what I was doing with the pedals. Unfortunately, my MTB has relatively low top gearing, so I can't get it much over 20mph (nor do I really want to), so I can't provide any other high speed comments.
As of today check out item 360202447465 on Ebay. Or search Ebay for Bionx. Seller, bllcorp wants $19.99, or "make an offer." I submitted $10 and it was automatically instantly accepted. Shipping is $7.60. Same item at NYCeWheels is $40. He has 10 left.