Vectrix Unveils Newest Electric Vehicle, the VX-2, Perfect for Urban Commuters

This should not be in the large scooter section...
its a moped
Also the text is misleading. It has nothing to do with the VX1, this is a Chinese product re badged and repaneled

No mention of battery technology? I'm guessing lead acid - probably "silicon lead acid". There doesn't seem to be anything very exciting or compelling about this bike. Or am I missing something?

Reik, thanks for keeping us up to date.
The vx2 does not look very promising.
Energy contained in the battery 48vx20Ah=960wh. And with that energy they really expect to get 40-55 miles of range?? With 3750wh the vectrix hardly gets 30-35 miles. The numbers just don't add. What the hell did they smoke? Oh yes! the small-print again... huge downhill and strong wind from behind...

Hey Vectrix team:

Do you know silicon batteries also need BMS? (in fact, all kind of batteries except flooded lead need BMS)
before making another mess ensure you install in the vx2 some devices like this one:
http://www.hdm-sys.com/pdf/hdm_equalizer_specs.pdf

Energy contained in the battery 48vx20Ah=960wh.

Umm, the post mentions a 48V / 20A battery charger. It doesn't mention the size of the battery pack...

Umm, the post mentions a 48V / 20A battery charger. It doesn't mention the size of the battery pack...

a) "large" in the context of this site includes the moped style you're besmirching. "small" in the context of this site means things like the schwinn s1000 or smaller or the stand-up scooters like a goped esr750

Apologies, I thought it also had to do with top speed as regulated for the different classes. And I had no negative intentions when using the word moped. But maybe because I am not native english I come across rude, it was not intended.

b) it's Vectrix that chose to call this a Vectrix ... all I did was repost their press release

I have no problem with the name.

c) the press release talks about VX-2 and only mentions the VX-1 in passing
I do get that you think Vectrix is violating some sense of what Vectrix is supposed to be ... but the old Vectrix died and went to scooter heaven, this is a new Vectrix with new ideas of what Vectrix is supposed to be. It's a shame but that's the way it is. FWIW the VX-2 comes from the old Vectrix days doesn't it?

When I read the press release the VX2 is heritage of the VX1 and shares development/technology blah blah.
I think that is misleading.
But again maybe I need to learn better English :-)

The VX2 is based upon the new Emax (now owned by VMoto).

the double throttle the VX2 has is something the Emax does not.

the battery is probably the 60Ah 48v lead acid/silicon battery the Emax's all seem to come with now.

The quality is a vast improvement over any other moped I have encountered, but it is definately no motorbike.

Matt

It's been three days since Vectrix made this press release, which includes their website URL("...please visit www.vectrix.com"), but their website hasn't been updated to include the VX-2!

I think they desperately need a new webmaster.

What they need the most is a consumer service. Aren't they aware that we users are their best sales managers?

all I did was repost their press release

Perhaps, if you had made it clear that this was just a Vectrix Press release, then responses may have been different. It appeared at first to be a news item of your own origin and as such has far greater credibility than a Vectrix press release!

When I read the press release the VX2 is heritage of the VX1 and shares development/technology blah blah.I think that is misleading.But again maybe I need to learn better English :-)

Not at all, nothing wrong with your English or your instinct. The 'press release is indeed misleading!! The VX2 possesses nothing in common with the VX1. The original VX2, was planned to be a heavily modified E-Max, with many upgraded features. It was introduced during the last desperate days of Vectrix Mark I, as Mike Boyle tried to sell Vectrix to the Chinese parent group of E-max. (he was to receive a large bonus payment), Fortunately the deal fell through, and E-Max was in turn acquired by V-Moto, with some financial assistance from a Gold Peak associated company.

Despite all the misleading publicity, E-max was always Chinese, owned and produced. the terms 'styled' or 'designed', in Germany, are so much flim-flam.

The current VX2, is the first of a series of cheap PRC produced, badge engineered mopeds, from various PRC makers, that will exploit the Vectrix name as Gold Peak seeks to recover its losses.

The press release strives to create the impression that this is a Vectrix Product, produced in the US.(without actually saying so).

What they need the most is a consumer service. Aren't they aware that we users are their best sales managers?

Absolutely right.
Dear Vectrix, There is a very good article in the December Harvard Business Review on how potential purchasers make purchase decisions using online conversations. You guys should read it soon.
Today a Google search on 'Vectrix' quickly leads to this forum and it would be great if Vectrix had a voice here. Your current reputation will define your future success. I strongly urge that you engage in some CRM, which the rest of the motor industry seem to do like falling off a log. Many of us want you guys to succeeed, it's really frustrating to see such poor marketing and customer communications.

Many of us want you guys to succeed, it's really frustrating to see such poor marketing and customer communications.

Many Vectrix fans and supporters can't seem to grasp that the old Vectrix is dead. The new owners are not the pioneers and idealists who started Vectrix a decade ago, but an Asian battery manufacturer seeking to recover losses.

The VX1 is an obsolete product. Vectrix has neither the resources nor the ability to revive a bike like the VX1. There are simply not enough buyers to sustain manufacturer of the VX1 profitably.

Vectrix is in the process of becoming a, brand engineered, Asian owned, distributor of PRC bikes. The for the brand names survival depends on Gold Peak finding a relatively high quality manufacturing partner in the PRC. This is proving difficult for Gold Peak, as no PRC maker has shown any interest in building a VX1 copy.

In the marketing of two-wheeled transport, no manufacturer has displayed the slightest interest in purchasing the VX1 concept. Why? Not even Piaggio, who provided the original glider.

Why, after the demise of Vectrix has no manufacturer rushed into the market place to fulfil the segment vacated by Vectrix? Because it's just not profitable!

I had hoped that BMW or Honda would develop a VX1 sized EV , but alas no. With the advent of small electric cars, such as the Nissan Leaf, or even the Think!, costing only a little more than VX1, but backed by a major warranty, competition has grown even more fierce.

Competition from Brammo, and other makers further erode the VX1's market.

Vale Vectrix VX1.

While I appreciate many of your intelligent posts Marco, I cannot help but wonder if they are totally frank or they are shaded by what seems to be an immense dislike of the Vectrix product. Even good news is greeted with disdain and sarcasm which makes me inclined to write of off the rest of you comments as what appears to be a V-hater. I do say that as insult, I appreciate different intelligent points of view, but there always seem to be those that, no matter what, will never be satisfied.

Perhaps you would expound on why GP can recover costs by buying Vectrix?

The bike is a joy to ride and while I agree it has flaws, it has a great deal of potential also. The bike is Rockin and with a different battery and better battery management it would be Kick A##!

Tesla at first seemed to have a very unrealistic expectation in their model but they have taken root. One thing that is without question is that they have changed the EV market forever. I feel Vectrix did the same, they raised the bar and set a standard by which every other electric bike for the last 4 years has been measured.

Todd

While I appreciate many of your intelligent posts Marco, I cannot help but wonder if they are totally frank or they are shaded by what seems to be an immense dislike of the Vectrix product. Even good news is greeted with disdain and sarcasm which makes me inclined to write of off the rest of you comments as what appears to be a V-hater. I do say that as insult, I appreciate different intelligent points of view, but there always seem to be those that, no matter what, will never be satisfied.

Todd, despite its disappointments and production defects, I am actually very fond of my Two-Tone blue and white 2007 VX1, (we even have a Gold VX1 for special guests!). When working, they are great bikes! I am not a Vectrix hater, but find the unrealistic rantings of some Vectrix supporter's either silly or sinister. I am not unduly pessimistic, just realistic. 'Good news' from a Vectrix press release, needs to be treated with caution.

I was an early supporter and investor in Vectrix. I am very angry at the way the former CEO and his cronies destroyed any chance of success. His egotistical mismanagement resulted in over $800 million of shareholder money being squandered. I am so incensed by this behaviour that I, with others, have taken the unusual step of becoming involved in litigation against these miscreants personally. (but that is another story which for legal reasons, I shall refrain from commentary).

Perhaps you would expound on why GP can recover costs by buying Vectrix

Most of the problems with the VX1 were battery related. If Vectrix had been purchased by anyone else, then the possibility existed to sue GP for VecTrix battery related losses . The Australian law suit seemed to indicate that such an action may have some measure of success. In addition GP was a major creditor of Vectrix, this debt would have just written off if GP hadn't bought Vectrix. GP effectively paid $7 million for Vectrix, with receivables, and stock on hand, plus government write offs ,GP could recover $8-14 million and still own the prestige Vectrix name to either sell or use as a brand engineered product to sell GP batteries.

Tesla at first seemed to have a very unrealistic expectation in their model but they have taken root. One thing that is without question is that they have changed the EV market forever. I feel Vectrix did the same, they raised the bar and set a standard by which every other electric bike for the last 4 years has been measured.

Very true, and that's what makes Mike Boyle and cronies mismanagement so unforgivable!

But consider, Tesla appeals to a very small group of wealthy, performance related, purchasers. It's priced accordingly. Tesla is yet to make a profit, but Tesla has some incredibly rich backers.

In contrast, the Vectrix VX1 was designed to be mass-volume selling commuter vehicle. What nobody realised at the time, was that without the backing of an incredibly profitable corporation like Toyota, (prepared to lose money for years, and years to create a market for Hybrids), Vectrix just couldn't generate enough sales to survive.

A real killer was the insanely expensive, and logistically impossible, warranty service plan. Remember vectrix was a world-wide enterprise.

The basic flaws in the business model were not so evident in the heady days of EV breakthroughs, everyone (including me) suspended judgement out of idealistic enthusiasm to be part of some thing really exciting.

But Bill Ford was smarter, while wishing Vectrix well, he sunk his own personal money into commercial EV builders such as Smith Electric vehicles and R&D for Zinc-Air batteries. These have translated into very profitable resources.

Even with a new battery and updated electronics and other defects rectified, the VX1 is too big, too heavy, too expensive, to short range, too small a market, too hard to provide a service network, to be able to find sufficient numbers of buyers to sustain profitable production.

I would love to be proved wrong, but I fear the VX1 will soon cease production and become a much loved bike for collector/enthusiasts.

Me included.

Well, just a few thing about the E-max.

The project is mostly German and before Vmoto E-max scooter was made in Munchen (same city as BMW),
now is made in a Vmoto factory in china but still meet "german" requirment for TUV certification.

The engine is based on an italian patent and is a 4Kw engine

Battery are 4x60Ah Lead-Silicon battery

For sure E-max (VX2) is not on the same level of Vx1 but here many Vectrix owner have been
shocked by this "little" heavy thing, is not a low level product, is heavy , is slower than Vx1 but don't give up even after a lot of km
I personally did this travel http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Via+Giuseppe+Mazzini,+21,+22079+Villa+Guardia+Como,+Italy+(Villaguardia)&daddr=Milan,+Italy&hl=en&geocode=FQ2BugIdi8WJACFRoGaFg8XifA%3BFYm4tQIdLTOMACk9o6HLTMGGRzGQGnttVt4wpg&mra=ls&dirflg=ht&sll=45.62014,9.099085&sspn=0.356343,0.891953&ie=UTF8&ll=45.627484,9.224396&spn=0.356298,0.891953&z=11
with just using 3 tab out of 6 on the battery gauge and the end of the travel was uphill (and also was raining :( )

This scooter have a HUGE battery storage so the scooter itself is almost a huge lead battery
covered with an hard steel frame and a really advanced electric motor (Vectrix is looking deep on Emax engine).

Engine is improving every day as electronic on the motor-controller gets faster and more powerfull,
this engine need a very precise vectorial management of magnetic flux , so a faster CPU on the motor controller
create a better engine output. From the original 4Kw now with just a better software is possible to get
4.5 Kw and a much better range (the engine is thermally limited , if the software is better more energy do useful
work and less is wasted an heat)

Right now improvement made into the 120S from the original 110S are:
125cc equivalent instead of 50cc equivalent
max speed increased from 55 km/h to 80 km/h
Added Variable Regenerative breaking (on Vx2 there will be the classic Vectrix throttle , on Emax regen level is managed on 3 step , no brake , 1 brake ,2 brake)
Added Reverse ( reversed throttle on Vx2 , pushbutton+regular throttle on E-max)

I'm trying to make a Maxed out Emax using a 6.4 kw/h lithium battery (Did I told you that the battery vane is HUGE :D :D :D :D ) for doing this project
http://www.bicilindrici.it/emax/ as soon I can get enough sponsorship to cover the expense of the lithium battery ..
everything was ready from last year , but i still need to find someone to help me paying the battery (if you have any idea just tell me)

The project is mostly German and before Vmoto E-max scooter was made in Munchen (same city as BMW),
now is made in a Vmoto factory in china but still meet "german" requirment for TUV certification.

When was the scooter made in Germany?

The factory I went to back in the Emax days was in Wuxi, Jiangsu Provence, PRC.
That same factory produced the original Emax sport.

Engine is improving every day as electronic on the motor-controller gets faster and more powerfull,
this engine need a very precise vectorial management of magnetic flux , so a faster CPU on the motor controller
create a better engine output. From the original 4Kw now with just a better software is possible to get
4.5 Kw and a much better range (the engine is thermally limited , if the software is better more energy do useful
work and less is wasted an heat)

The New Emax 110s, with the older controller used to be able to do 4kw peak (85A @ 47v).

the motor still uses 3 x hall sensors for position sensing, which in the past has only been good for BLDC operation.

to be able to go to full flux vector from just those same signals is impressive (Vectrix had to use an encoder to achieve the same outcome).

I'm trying to make a Maxed out Emax using a 6.4 kw/h lithium battery (Did I told you that the battery vane is HUGE

you are right about that battery box being huge.
I fit 16 x TS 100Ah cells inside one of my customers Emax.

Matt

Matt
You are correct that the VX2 uses a more sophisticated vector drive, but you do not need anything more than the 3 hall signal to achieve this. You can play a little trick called interpolated sine drive. Basically you look at the transitions on the hall sensors and set up a phase locked loop to interpolate the rotor position between the sensor edges (you know exactly where you are at a transition). This gives you a very smooth drive at all times except startup. You still get the familiar "hall sensor only" hickup at startup as the motorcontroller tries to find the rotor position. To get rid of the startup hickup you need a more accurate absolute encoder.

How do you go back to reset mode on the bike

I'm wondering if anyone familiar with the VX-2 knows the Sevcon controller settings for the throttle and regeneration braking.

I'm looking to test a Vectrix throttle on a Zero SR and want to understand how it needs to be set up on a Sevcon controller.

If anyone is looking to sell a Vectrix throttle - new or used, please PM me.