I'm a peace corps volunteer, and want to buy an electric scooter for graduate school (in EE). I was looking at CMC, but now I have doubts about them. I read the CMC president's interview, and he said his goal is for the company to be acquired in five years. What kind of goal is that? Did Steve Jobs have as a goal being acquired by Microsoft? Did General Motors hope to be acquired by Ford? Did Harley Davidson start out, hoping to be acquired by Yamaha some day? Seems like these guys may be in it for the bucks - get a customer base, get acquired, and run with the money. That's a shame, because I'll bet the techs in the company just want to build a good product. I'll bet they don't even know their president's plans for their jobs.
I want a scooter from a company that is leading edge technology (not taking components off the shelf as CMC seems to do), and not one that is going to be gobbled up in five years. I want a company that will stand by its products for the long term - not tell me, in five years, "oh, you need to talk to xyz company."
So, I'm thinking CMC may not be a fit for me. I just read the info on BMW's concept electric scooter, and it looks good. I'm thinking I'll wait until BMW brings it on line, or go with another real company. Any suggestions?
Plus, I'm just a bachelor's in EE, but I would be embarrassed to ship a charging system that had basic software glitches, and then tell the consumer she had to return the product so they could figure out where they screwed up.
Am I being too analytical?
OK. Cancel what I wrote above. I was just told I was being too critical, and over thinking things. I guess I was.
You made some good points, I would like the person "telling you" you're overly critical to post their response in this forum, but absent that, I'll offer a response to part of your post.
You are correct, CMC's scooters are a product under development, although at this point, the bugs have been mostly shaken out, thanks to the small fleet of test pilot-scooters out there. They do rely on Chinese-sourced components which have had a reputation for quality control issues, but I can recall when Japanese products had a similar reputation in the 1960's, but that sure did change. The problem is, neither CMC, nor any other US business that may venture into electric scooters or motorcycles on the horizon, particularly after the Vectrix debacle, has anything near the financial resources to design and build a scooter from scratch and sell it at an affordable price. At the scale of CMC's operation, Chinese manufacturers remain the only source at any price for direct drive hub motors, controllers, compact-size high power chargers, and LiFePO4 cells, as well as more mundane things like the frames and body parts.
If CMC did get acquired by a larger manufacturer, that would only be a positive development, as it would reflect a major improvement in how US capital views the potential of "green" products in the US.
By the way, I just got back from a week in Toronto, Canada and of the considerable number of scooters on the streets and (apparently legally) parked on curb-side of the downtown sidewalks, about half were electric - albeit of the low powered moped type with the detachable pedals (and lead-acid batteries). A larger lithium-powered electric scooter looks like it would have enormous sales potential there.
As someone who just placed an order for the C124, I don't think you are being overly critical. However, as PJD points out, it's pretty hard to bring something to market that is designed from scratch. My hope is that they are sourcing the best parts they can find for a reasonable cost in order to build something that should be a cut above bikes that are designed and built in China. Many of the issues that plague other scooters in these forums appear to stem from poor design - although clearly sub-standard parts is often a problem too. I look at this market at something that is evolving so rapidly that the off-the-shelf component approach - selected carefully and put together in a thoughtful way, makes a lot of sense. It also seems that a lot of the challenge is getting the controlling software to function optimally, given the mix of parts used. I'm hoping that the C124 will end up being a flexible solution that will let me, for example, swap my batteries in a couple of years for some that might give me twice the range. But maybe I'm too optimistic! :-)
I should also say that anyone buying an electric vehicle is taking somewhat of a risk since the EV environment is changing so fast. But I am excited by the potential of EVs and like the idea of helping especially new companies push the boundaries of what is possible.
Jeff Holmes
Wheels: Current Motor Co C124
Work: Encyclopedia of Life www.eol.org
My understanding is that CMC tests their major components. I have heard that they now employ a Chinese EE who as a native Mandarin speaker, can now deal much more effectively with the suppliers.
Based on my experience since 2005, with the exception of the Vectrix, I believe the problem with 2 wheel EVs so far have been due less to design problems and more due to poor QC and even deliberate selling of defective parts by the Chinese suppliers. Aside from batteries, there really is not much new technology in an EV. But there are a lot of shady Chinese businesses taking advantage of environmentally conscious but gullible westerners.
Thee's plenty of westerners selling that snakeoil grade scooter crap too. Current Motors is NOT one of these. I've seen nothing but stellar responses to inquiries of all types on these boards, even when the post was an obvious snipe attack. I personally would already own one of their bikes if my eyesight permitted me to use one. As to the original poster's quote of the CEO wanting to sell in 5 years, I would have to see the entire article, in context to make a fair statement on that, as there may have been more said, or in a different context.
What was the Vectrix debacle? I looked at their rides on the web, and they look great. The VX-1 especially looks good, but is a pretty dear price for me.
This is the link where the president talks about being acquired in five years.
http://www.currentmotor.com/meet-cmc-president-peter-scott/
I agree with Robert that seeing the posts from CMC here make a big difference. I've been tempted for a while to buy an electric scooter but haven't felt there was a reliable enough option until CMC came along. Of course, everyone is looking for inexpensive solutions which is part of the problem since we've all contributed to the "made in China" world in which we now find ourselves. Hopefully enough competition, good communication, and the right kind of incentives will improve the quality of parts and services that China provides.
Jeff Holmes
Wheels: Current Motor Co C124
Work: Encyclopedia of Life www.eol.org
Interesting... I hadn't actually read that. It does make for a rather disappointing read but I have a feeling that his main role is to make the company a success financially - part of that would be a goal, at least for some, to be acquired.
Jeff Holmes
Wheels: Current Motor Co C124
Work: Encyclopedia of Life www.eol.org
Guys, Peter Scott has left Current Motor Company. He's no longer on the management team. I think the official statement was that he left to 'pursue other options', which really means they aren't actually saying anything about why he left. I don't recall exactly when it happened, but it was earlier this year.
John and Erik, the founders, don't seem to be interested in being acquired, they are focused on building better bikes and growing the company. Sure, I expect there will be some business partnerships down the road, but acquisition doesn't appear to be a goal. And I don't think any of the big players would be interested. Someone like Honda or BMW already has a vast supply of engineering talent to draw from. I wouldn't be surprised if they partnered up with another smaller company, perhaps someone working on controllers or motors but without motorbike experience, but a big player seems unlikely.
My electric vehicle: CuMoCo C130 scooter.
Vectrix underestimated the difficulty in using big NiMH battery packs, and as a result a lot of them are dead, and most of them have battery issues. I almost bought one from Ebay, and almost didn't look for problems because Toyota and Honda have done such a good job with NiMH packs, but then, at the last minute, I looked for problems and it was a real eye-opening experience. The good news is you can get a used Vectrix cheap. That bad news is you'll want to completely replace the large, heavy, high voltage battery system with a lithium-based system.
Did you notice the date on that post "6/7/10"..... VERY old content. I'd say its worth a much closer look at the more CURRENT content :-)
Ah, ha. The downside of the internets - information gets clogged in those tubes and stays forever. Thanks for setting me straight.
Well, since the guy's no longer there, I can rank on him for claiming "I designed the turbine for the ...GE90 jet engine." I can just bet that there was more than one person involved in that project. Why, GE may have even had two people working on that. Probably not more than two, since the turbine is a very minor component of a jet engine. And, based on the photo and that the GE90 was designed in the late 80s, early 90s, I'm betting that GE would have had a young first-project engineer design the turbine, all by himself, since again, the turbine is such a minor component.
Actually, that statement piqued my interest, and I did some on-line research. Mr Scott's name was never mentioned in the design team of the GE90, and GE is pretty proud of their engineering effort. There was quite a large team, though, with many seasoned engineers leading the effort.
Now back to business - based on the fact that the adults are back in charge, I'm looking much harder at CMC. I'm thinking that is what I will buy. The Vectrix is maybe a little slicker, but at a cost of almost $5k more. That makes CMC quite a bargain and, when you look at the fact that the actual engineers are involved in the day-to-day handling of the customers - how can you go wrong?
I'll be around. I'm saving my coins now (peace corps volunteers are the cheapest bargain in the government pile).
I've also heard via CMC Marketing that a new website is on its way... so presumably some of this old commentary will be flushed. I asked about the site because I was looking for some galleries of images to see the bikes in more details. Especially the colors. Hey John, I've asked for silver but if shiny black were an option, I'd go for that! :-)
Jeff Holmes
Wheels: Current Motor Co C124
Work: Encyclopedia of Life www.eol.org
Hi everyone,
It's really gratifying for me to see the community providing the context and explanation of the situation. When Current Motor started I always felt that I should respond to everything. Especially the negative posts to offer a different point of view or to provide extra context (I'm not here trying to ever tell anyone they're "wrong" - well maybe just a little from time to time!).
After reading this thread I'm starting to think I can start posting less (the amount I post has been used more than once as a zinger from a detractor!) I can't promise I'll stop posting though - it's both fun and important to interact with the community.
To sprockethead,
Thanks for having an open mind and listening to other points of view. Don't feel the need to not post something - especially if you're prepared to listen to these other points of view. Also, much kudos for your involvement with the US Peace Corps!
To holmesjtg,
Welcome to the club! I'm not sure we've corresponded? As the organization grows I'm doing less general tasks and more specific ones...
Happy riding (or future riding) to everyone.
John H. Founder of Current Motor Company - opinions on this site belong to me; not to my employer
Remember: " 'lectric for local. diesel for distance" - JTH, Amp Bros || "No Gas.
Thanks John. You did kindly welcome me in my first post about ordering a C124 but I can easily imagine that it's becoming difficult to keep track of the many individuals who are interested in Current Motor. I'm glad that you are continuing to monitor and post here and I agree that it's great to see the community, where possible, chiming in to provide information and explanations.
Cheers, Jeff.
Jeff Holmes
Wheels: Current Motor Co C124
Work: Encyclopedia of Life www.eol.org
Like Sprockethead7786, I had a bit of a concern about the idea of growing just to be absorbed. I had read the article and was aware of the date, but not aware that Peter Scott had left the company. Scott's plan must not have disturbed me too much as it was only today when reading this forum for the first time that I realized he was no longer there. I placed my order for a Current Maxi-scooter early last month.